/lit/ - Literature

I would worry more about breaking out of the 'making posts on 4chan about religion' phase if I were you

>>5952953
Get them to read some Mao

>>5952957
whats wrong with discussing religion on 4chan?

>>5952957
ahah!! excellent, monsieur, you are a master craftsman

>>5952953
what does being twenty years old have to do with it? Most people who claim to be atheist are betraying what their most inner-fundamental truth. People who go further than this aren't worth bothering about, because they aren't really people anymore.

>>5952963
Please be real.

>>5952957
/thread

>>5952957
I would worry more about breaking out of the 'making posts on 4chan' phase if I were you

>>5953043
>Most people who claim to be atheist are betraying what their most inner-fundamental truth.
What is this most inner-fundamental truth?

>>5953045
ah, monsieur, why the Real when we have the Onahole(TM)? we are beyond the Real, monsieur!!! beyond!!!!

Pure ennui/nihilism is scary/depressing for someone who's still attached to western myths of egalitarianism, life having intrinsic value and being an overall good etc and there's no going back to religion/willful obscurantism which is even worse than feroratheism.

>>5952957
>I would worry more about breaking out of the 'making posts on 4chan about religion' phase if I were you
I would worry more about breaking out of the 'making posts on 4chan about religion' phase if I were you

>>5953142
in the end, most people do believe in some otherworldly shit, they just pretend to not to.
before dying the even start praying

>>5953169
>there's no going back to religion/willful obscurantism which is even worse than feroratheism.
It's not, you're p. obviously just saying that because you're in the latter category

I hope you guys realize one day you're one and the same, only a bit more verbose, but still at the same level of knee-jerk.

>>5953404
why do you automatically turn this into an "us vs them" thing? how can you even be sure that the op, or anyone here, is religious?

>>5953419

The onset of the thread was the "kek dumb lolbertarian atheists". So grouping, y'know.

>>5953398
Sure, but precisely because they feel a strong connection, in other words, precisely because that spiritual idea is not otherworldly anymore. They connect the spiritual feeling with otherworldliness because that's the only kind of spirituality they know of due to their culture.

So I'd say it's the spiritual and not otherworldly side that people suppress.

>>5952953
just posted this in other thread:
eah, people have to get that science is just another false flag operation to prohibit you from forming a positive meaningful picture of the world around you.
people do not have the courage as they consider themselves victims of their surrounding with the big daddies state, economy, technology and a materialistic world view as inhibitors of imagination, curiousness and creativity.
you need to realize that science is just a pseudo-rationalistic, empiricist method that is based on axioms and not even coherent. it is just as dogmatic as anything else, even more it simply has no meaning what so ever except for the creation of applications. science is a boring story as it can only be used to make your computer, car or whatever but doenst ever have any meaning concerning the fabric of life, consciousness, reality or whatever.
people just turn to it as they are cowards so they choose an ideology which they possibly can't understand as science mostly consists of mathematics and can only loosely be framed into words.

>>5952953
Agnostic here.

How do you religious anons have faith? I can't even logically accept reality.

>>5953435
Those idiots tend to piss off anyone with a brain, not just religious people. So I'm guessing you're one of them.

>>5953453
It's not a matter of logic anon. It's something only you can find for yourself. Matters of spirituality are discovered within, not without.

>>5952962
Well, given the fact that their is enough Hersey, Sacrilege, Debauchery and Obscenities that it would be enough to get anyone here the death penalty in most non-secular societies I always find it a tad but ironic seeing that religious people even come to this God forsaken hell hole.

>>5953453
Faith involves a logical acceptance of reality. Only by knowing God can we know what is real.

>>5952953
>>>/pol/

>>5953473
Not to get all euphoric but that really just sounds like "I just got a good gut feeling" about it. I find it hard to believe that creator of universe would determine my eternal fate based off of how much of a gut feeling I have towards him

>>5953475
You understand that religion is made specifically for people in God forsaken hell holes, right? Spirituality is meant for the lost souls of this world. This is the exact place these discussions should be had in all actuality.

>>5953497
If spirituality is meant for you, you will drawn to it intrinsically. It's not something that can be brought to you in the terms you're thinking.

>>5953507
I thought you weren't suppose to cast your pears before swine.

My friend thinks like this and he has literal autism.

He doesn't even entertain fiction books or art. None of it interests him.

>>5953453
you need to let logic lose. reality is more complicated than that.
if you come from a very rational point of view you could read douglas hofstadter or tarski or gödel.
maybe the most compressed of those ideas will be found with ervin laszlo.
they show that logic is flawed in itself. you cannot derive a logical coherent system when you're dealing with different levels like the object and the meta level. you can't build a model of reality inside reality or a model of consciousness inside consciousness. there are questions you can't answer and science pretends its not so. from this perspective science even is presumptuous and ignorant.
even if you'll try to find an answer anyways this will only further mirror your method of testing.
you will reach conflicting conclusions and will never be able to form a coherent systems as there will be conflicting evidence. like the particle/wave problem or many other things in science and even mathematics which gödel showed.
finally logic and empiricism are simply overvalued in assessing the fabric of life. they are useful to some degree, actually only to build applicacations which are practical uses of science, but narratives, analogies and intuitive insight are better suited to form your view of the world.

>>5952953
you're confusing things my friend
the internet atheists are divided between two trends:
1. liberals and sjws, fanboys of post-modern philosophy
2. libertarians and mras, fanboys of scientism

>>5953531
You also aren't supposed to be one who holds himself as holier than thou. Who are we to call another a swine?

>>5953552
When was it do you think that logic started to become so overvalued as our means to define our reality? It's become rampant.

>>5953446
what makes you think this is a worthwhile thought that it needs to be shared twice?
i'll use this as a copypasta if you don't mind

I think that a "liberal, internet atheist, religion is root of all evil, dawkins is great, muh scientism" is usually the first step of a person that actually tries to think about stuff in general unlike the common pleb.
The problem is that a lot of people just stop there. They found a comfortable spot so they just stop questioning their beliefs, because, fundamentally, they weren't searching for truths but just for a set of beliefs that made them feel good about themselves.

logic

>>5953439

>>5953475
Don't you atheist usually promote the view that religious people are rapist pedos, who kill people despite the teachings of the Bible. If you are that type of atheist, then by your logic 4chan should be made up mostly by religious people, shoudn't it?

>"liberal, internet atheist, religion is root of all evil, dawkins is great, muh scientism"
>implying this isn't a massive strawman

0/10 troll

>>5953575
It's been happening for a while. Philosophy has been trying to be 'logical' for quite a while, and with Descartes it suddenly became absolutely imperative that one be logically and epistemically sound in one's foundations.

>>5953623
the typical 4chan user probably isn't the same kind of secular-humanist-atheist who speaks out of concern against faith-healing,religion in schools, and clergy pedophilia.

They are apathetic cunts who just like bullshit

>>5953623
Projecting much? That is usually how Christians portray those degenerate, nihilists atheists, who cannot have any sense of morality or the value of life without recourse to imaginary absolutes.

>>5953575
i think it probably started in the end of the 60s with the emergent idea of an ecosystem and cybernetics. maybe even before with john von neumann, nash, wiener, RAND, the two wars and the cold war, and ultimately the computer revolution. i also think brockman and dawkins played a role. right now with big data and a completely financialized and computerized (is this even a word?) economy we are probably moving faster and faster, deeper into the matrix. see Singularity etc
anyone who is interested in this could watch some speculative films like The Net: The Unabomber, LSD and the Internet by Lutz Dambeck or All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace by Adam Curtis. There also is a very nice short text by David Grabber about this, which i enjoyed very much: http://www.thebaffler.com/salvos/whats-the-point-if-we-cant-have-fun

>>5953623
>Don't you atheist usually promote the view that religious people are rapist pedos, who kill people despite the teachings of the Bible.

Why yes. We also secretly worship Satan and eating babies for breakfast

Yummy, babies

One more time. Being an agnostic atheist just means I don't see enough proof that any deities exist, and choose not to believe in them. Period.
It doesn't necessarily mean I believe in evolution, Big Bang, or any other theory. It doesn't mean I read Dawkins, worship science or even think the world is round. I can believe in ghosts, UFOs, elves, the Loch Ness Monster, and Atlantis. The only f**king requirement is that I don't believe in any supernatural beings that I consider holy or sacred. I don't have to explain the fossil record or the history of the universe. It doesn't mean I hate religion, or churches, or want to see the end of anyone else's faith. It has nothing to do with whether I give to charities, try to be moral or ethical, or obey the law. It doesn't mean I think life is meaningless, or care what anyone else believes or thinks. I just reject theist explanations as sounding silly to me, and the rest is personal. If I see anything to change my mind, I'll let you know.

>>5953557
I've always assume that passage meant that you weren't suppose to waste time on degenerate heathen who won't really listen to you, witch is what you get in this hell hole. But maybe the Bible is just too deep for a immature ledditor like me.

>>5953665
Regardless, the word of God is meant for those who are lost in the world. Jesus didn't speak to those who lived a healthy moral life. He spoke directly to the sinners and the degenerates. He viewed them eye to eye, not from some high horse.

But then again, I have a very radical view on Christianity that is completely against the grain of any church you would see.

>>5953591
sure don't, thanks.
well its difficult to argue against science as the oppenent mostly simply lacks the courage or imagination to see reality as a place full of wonders and things you can't explain but still influence to a great extent.
also i wanted to revive the thread. i myself had a very scientific world view and it was a somehow painful and in the end a very interesting experience.
the nice thing about it is that the further you dive into science and get really interested in it not like the average dawkins fanboy it flips you all the way round as even on a quantum level there are signs for a world beyond our understanding.
i wanted to explain it in their own terms. if i wanted to convince someone who hasn't lost this wonder id just say: take a deep breath look around at nature and then tell me again that life has no meaning and just happened randomly. it's fucking paradise if we want to

>>5953600
when in the end they don't even feel good, because as a consequence of their scientific world view they never feel at ease about it because they don't understand reality and see themselves as victims and fall for the illusion of individuality.
you are all connected. nothing is true. everything is permitted. it is how you believe it is. at least to a very great extent

>>5953664
being spiritual doesn't mean you have to believe in jhvh, allah or krishna or buddha or whatever.
its just acknowledging the fact that science isn't the end of the story

>>5953705
>its just acknowledging the fact that science isn't the end of the story

And why is this a fact? You do realize that one of the core principles of science is fallibility, right?

>>5953686
>He viewed them eye to eye, not from some high horse.

Sorry but I just can't accept that. Jesus in the end may have been an alright lad who helped the people who society has abandoned by in the end of the day I find his message quiet sickening. He says he is the only, he is perfect, we are fundamentally flawed, we need his help, if we refuse his gift we will go to hell(whatever that means)

How can their be a higher horse than that?

>>5953711
fallibility of the result. not of logic and emiricism as such.

if you really are an atheist and believe in scientism thats fine if you actually defend the positions rationally

but reviewing the bible as a work of fiction on goodreads teir atheism is only curable by suicide

>>5953715
The idea you have of Jesus, and what I know to be Jesus are two very different things anon. The Jesus that was created by the church, the one that you're thinking of, is not the Jesus I'm speaking about here.

>>5953730

Then present a more reliable system of thought or don't complain

>>5953398

>before dying the even start praying

There's a very big difference between actually believing in the divine or supernatural and hedging your bets in the throes of last-minute panic

>>5953150

>>5953691
>even on a quantum level there are signs for a world beyond our understanding.

this is what english majors who have read a couple books by nutjobs like penrose actually believe

>>5953733

And the Jesus you know is the Jesus you want him to be, right?

>>5953938
I wouldn't really word it like that. The Jesus I know doesn't bring you peace and comfort. If anything, he brings you more struggle and obstacles than you ever thought you would face. He doesn't promote a lifestyle most would want to live, and even often angers people.

>>5952953
>that pic
>'muh' meme
>ridiculous straw man

back to /pol/
>>>/pol/

>>5953967
>and even often angers people.

And for good reason, because the majority of his ideas are absolutely batshit

>>5953971
>batshit ideas
such as?

>>5953978
Hell

:^)

>>5953971
Again, we're talking about two very different ideas of Jesus.

>>5953914
You mean the "self-educated". Humanities don't actually posit anything outside of the psychological, since we would be forced to enter into the realm of actually being able to support our claims. Which is clearly the area of the pleb.

>>5953978

Such as infinite punishment for finite crimes, considering yourself the living incarnation of the creator of everything, thinking that you know what people think and when they sin and considering the golden rule to be perfect when it really isn't and has some fatal flaws. And that's just Jesus, I won't even bother with the fucked up shit Paul made up

>>5954003
>finite crimes
>implying

>>5954003
You're talking about Catholic Jesus, which is a completely different figure.

>>5954008

Giving God a boo-boo on his feelers is an infinite crime now?

>>5954017
Of course.

>>5954026

If God is that much of a petty shit, I never want to go to heaven

>>5954034
That's up to God to decide.

>>5954034
People call it petty, but his wrath stems from the purest, most real love that you can't even fathom.

>>5953150
The silicone is folded over 1000 times.