/lit/ - Literature

>>5945455
>Christianity isn't shittier than other religions in practice
did you mean "in theory"?
I also don't see how it not being shittier than other religions affects all the following, be it in practice or theory.

>>5945455
They turned out as good as any other states. Better even.
Perhaps you're cherry-picking information.

>>5945455

We live in a world of chaos and darkness that's why.

>>5945474
I mean in practice as a religion, but not as in not in state, ya dingus.

>>5945478
Those are some mighty big cherries.

I'm sure you have reassons to think that the longer peace periods, standarization of writing, keeping records of social evolution and keeping the useless sciences like astronomy alive among war lords are bad things and much worse than, say, buddhist not giving a fuck about anything around them and supporting dead on the battle firld since life is a lie anyway.

>>5945455

They also were the ones keeping Classical wisdom alive after Rome fell, while swarms of barbarian invaders would come and burn what little was left to the ground. Often diverse sects were reconciled and brought into the Church, and the Inquisition were the people calling the existence of witches superstition, while it was a left over belief of paganism in the peasantry that they even existed.

As far as the olympics and homosexuality goes, the Olympics is something I don't know the details of, but being against sodomy has to do with Aristotelean "functions"- sex was seen by Aristotelean Philosophy as a means for reproducing, sodomy is unsanitary anyways- especially during that time period.

>>5945521
>I'm sure you have reassons to think that the longer peace periods
Nope

>standarization of writing
Do you mean spelling?

>keeping records of social evolution and keeping the useless sciences like astronomy alive
Christians kept records and calender, that has hardly unique to them, you'd be very hard pressed to give evidence that only Christians would do that.

> than, say, buddhist not giving a fuck about anything around them and supporting dead on the battle firld since life is a lie anyway.
Which Buddhist state are you referring to?

>>5945538
>They also were the ones keeping Classical wisdom alive after Rome fell, while swarms of barbarian invaders would come and burn what little was left to the ground. Often diverse sects were reconciled and brought into the Church, and the Inquisition were the people calling the existence of witches superstition, while it was a left over belief of paganism in the peasantry that they even existed.

The Renaissance was actually a product of copies coming from the Imperial Library of Constantinople. Before then, Christians were quite confused about what "classical wisdom" really was, they thought logos meant "God" for pete's sake.

>As far as the olympics and homosexuality goes, the Olympics is something I don't know the details of, but being against sodomy has to do with Aristotelean "functions"- sex was seen by Aristotelean Philosophy as a means for reproducing, sodomy is unsanitary anyways- especially during that time period.
Not only did it not have anything to do with that, but eliminating public baths because indecency goes to show that sanitation was not a primary consideration.

>>5945455
>burning the Library of Antioch

You mean the one that was first burned by Julius Caesar in 48 BC? (and later by Aurelian and eventually by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al `Aas)?

>>5945618
>You mean the one that was first burned by Julius Caesar in 48 BC? (and later by Aurelian and eventually by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al `Aas)?
1. Neither of those first burning were hardly for religious reasons.

2. The first mention of Muslims burning the library is several hundred years after it supposedly happened.

3. The Library of Antioch is not the Library of Alexandrian, ya dingus, so no, I don't mean "that one".

>>5945567
>spelling
no, I mean the minuscule system.
>records
Yeah, good things there were all those copies of the texts in all those destroyed libraries. Oh, no, wait, catholics were the ones who thought that making as many copies of every text they could find was a good idea. I'm sure we don't need all those greek texts they saved.
Yes, other cultures did the same. Two people making something right without a connection doesn't make any of them wrong.

>Buddhist
I was thinking about Zizek's talk about Buddhism, he brings up how zen masters all for dying in the battle field. But I was joking, there used to be many threads about buddhism being a dead cult, it was a meme last year.

fighting was the way of the world. people in the west prop up the evils that happened under christianity and turn a blind eye to every other civilization/religion for some reason. also the Levant/cradle of civilization always causes problems. not even religious necessarily but just empire/ego problems because of the tiny space

>>5945455
>banning homosexuality
How is that part of a trainwreck? Plato already moved from physical gay love to platonic, being the preffered one.

>>5945605
>sanitation was not a primary consideration.
Shut the fuck up you capitalist anglo dog. It's you and your gentleman that indroduced the plebian daily bath taking, while us continental aristocratcs were too busy thinking about higher things than looking clean.

>>5945744
>being so autistic you think if something is "better" than it has to be enforced by law

>being so entry level that you actually think Plato's argument is universally accepted and not actually the resource of Supreme Gentlemen who think sex is "overrated"

>>5945765
>not being a Dandy
>not sleeping with hair curlers for luscious locks before riding into battle for glory and honor

>>5945889

>>5945744
>2015
>homophobic

>banning the Olympics, banning homosexuality, burning witches

oh this is one of those edgy trolls where people side with hitler

No shitty /pol/-esque threads, please.

>>5945538
>They also were the ones keeping Classical wisdom alive after Rome fell,

Was this before or after they closed down the philosophical academies in Greece?

Why was it despite all this "preserving" a huge amount of it had to come from Islamic countries?

>Often diverse sects were reconciled and brought into the Church, and the Inquisition were the people calling the existence of witches superstition, while it was a left over belief of paganism in the peasantry that they even existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden

Likewise any Sect that seriously threatened the Churches Authority were dealt with extremely harshly. Just look at what happened to the Cathars.

>>5945674
The library was burnt several times "ya dingus".

>so why did it turn into such a train wreck when merged with the state

literally satan. he wants us to turn away from our Lord. he has done this for thousands of years. he turned the Israelites away from God

>>5946567
The Library of Antioch was only burnt once.

>>5946576
T-this is a joke right?

>>5946583
satan is not a joke, no

>>5946589
So you were serious when you made that post?

Quality bait.

>>5945881
I think it's better not to kill you.
Fortunately, the glorious and enlightened state understands that laws are a restrictive and oppressive, which go against the common good and abolished all restrictions against murder. Now humans can live as they were fully meant to free from the chains of a majority sanctioned morality.

>>5947182
Prohibiting murder is not the same thing as prohibiting alcohol. There's standing up for people being shat on, then there's trying to nanny adults.

>>5945605
U know, Constantinople was also christian.

>>5947198
not sure what that has to do with existence of their library.

>>5945455

Because Augustine was a bigoted megalomaniac.

>>5947194
The point I'm trying to get across is that no matter what you do all laws, even laws which do not exist, are products of what "we" define as better. I'll argue with you on the morality of homosexuality and whether or not laws passed against homosexual acts are moral or not, but I'm tired of people using "my idea of right is different from yours, ergo all opinions on the matter should remain opinions" argument.

>>5947243
But only an austist thinks that means enforcing everything across the board and can't perceive gradations of issues.

Basically, the Christians running the state were autistic as fuck, even if Christ wasn't. Theodosius was one of the most Supreme Gentlemen to ever walk the planet. Most autists like that now are atheists, but Christians then are what New Atheists are now.

>>5947259
So long as a New Atheist is properly educated on spiritual matters, I quite frankly have a certain respect for them. They don't take half measures. They see something which does not corroborate with idea of good and take steps to rectify it, rather than just let it sit and fester, until it rots society.

>>5945455
The Catholic Church had to do some fucked up shit, but they managed to keep European civilization alive long enough for the Renaissance to kick in, so I'll consider that a point in their favor.

>>5945455
>with the state

Because the state is shit.

>>5945605
CONSTANTINOPLE WAS A FUCKING CHRISTIAN CITY YOU RETARD.

>>5947314
Autists respect autists, nothing surprising there.

>rather than just let it sit and fester, until it rots society.
Religion has been festering for thousands of years, society didn't even predate it. Atheist societies only started in the 20th Century.

>>5947372

Actually, no, it is Islam.

>>5946443
>Why was it despite all this "preserving" a huge amount of it had to come from Islamic countries?

Almost none of it came from Islamic countries, it was preserved by Christian Byzantium.

>>5947217
Because "Christians" were not "confused," WESTERN EUROPEANS were since they didn't have access to any of those texts until they were recovered from the EASTERN CHRISTIANS.


Why is /lit/ so fucking historically illiterate. every single fucking thread these same retarded claims about le muslim sages xDDD need to be debunked.

Even what little classical knowledge was recovered from the muslims was preserved by CHRISTIANS. Almost every scribe in the muslim lands was Christian! They were the ones doing this shit, not muslims! Read a fucking history book for once on your fucking life that wasn't written by a fedora-tipping, brown-person-worshipping pop historian.

>>5947372
But their library was built by a pagan Emperor....are you saying they should be credited for not burning it down? How does that mitigate anything in the OP?

>>5947395
THE SCHOLARS WHO RE-INTRODUCED THOSE TEXTS TO WESTERN EUROPE WERE CHRISTIAN.

CAN YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD? HAVE YOU HEARD OF ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY??

>>5947402
Are you suggesting that scholars wouldn't have been around in Byzantium without Christianity?

>>5947427
Are you suggesting that Christianity in some suppressed scholarship in Byzantium? Despite the fact that Byzantium was Christian for 1000 years and during that time completely eclipsed every other civilization in the Mediterranean, including le epic "Islamic Golden Age"? And then you whine about le terrible Christianity and le Christian barbarians?

>>5947382
right now it is. its an old city.you losers from the new world wouldnt understand, go back to el paso

>>5945455
>>5945455
> Christianity isn't shittier than other religions in practice, so why did it turn into such a train wreck when merged with the state (burning the Library of Antioch, massacring diversity, within Christianity, banning the Olympics, banning homosexuality, burning witches, etc.)?

Listen buddy, the seventies proved that you cannot constrain the hedonism of the plebs for centuries. So ofc it was doomed to fail.

>>5947432
>Are you suggesting that Christianity in some suppressed scholarship in Byzantium?
No, I'm suggesting Christianity did what I listed in the OP.

>>5947449
OP is objectively wrong and historically illiterate. Orthodox Christianity has always been merged with the state and has produced civilization as high as any pagan religion and often higher. Not to mention Catholicism imposed itself ABOVE the state and nurtured even higher civilization.

>>5947456
>Orthodox Christianity has always been merged with the state and has produced civilization as high as any pagan religion and often higher.

Of which the Pussy Riot is the pinnacle. Well done.

>>5947458
Of which Byzantium and Imperial Russia were the pinnacle.

Would you like to point out a religion that you believe did better than Christianity when merged with the state btw? What's the absolute best example you could find? The stagnant shithole of Confucian China perhaps?

>>5947456
top kek, they burned Gemistus Pletho's "Nómoi", everything great about Byzantium was emulation of from pagan civilizations. The Byzantine Renaissance was basically nostalgia for pre-Christian times. Their philosophical output was shit, it was entirely theology.

>>5947469
Imperial Russia's cultural boom was a product of Peter the Great going to Western countries and seeing how fucking backward Russia was, it had nothing to do with Orthodox Christianity.

>>5947483
>>5947487
>everything bad was Christianity's fault
>everything good was unrelated to Christianity

It's not even possible to debate with ideological retards like you.

>>5947499
Not everything bad was related to Christianity, just the things OP listed.

>>5947456
>Catholicism imposed itself ABOVE the state and nurtured even higher civilization
>higher

Feudalism and the Middle Ages were the pinnacle of civilization indeed

The issue is that Martin Luther revolted against the church and got others to do so. He's the prime cause of Christianity today.

>>5947697
None of the things OP mentioned have to do with Christianity today.

>>5947697
>Martin Luther
Disregard the fact that the church was already in shambles back then and Gallicans didn't wait for him to revolt.

>>5945455
Have you ever looked at countries with Islam as state religion? Merging religion with political power seems generally a horrible idea.

>>5947727
Depends of the religious tendencies. Morocco or England have their heads of state as religious leaders.

Christianity brought civilization, literacy, wealth and stability to places it would never have set roots without it. Take Northern Europe. Northern Europe would have continued to be an illiterate nomansland in constant tribal warfare if it hadn't been for Christian priests. No other academic of the ancient world would ever leave their comfortable cities to go enlighten the poor and the savage in a cold and foreign inhospitable environment for no personal gain at all.

Compare the cities, Christian Constantinople, and Pagan Rome. Constantinople had hospitals, orphanages and dozens of monasteries dedicated to learning. What did Rome have? Circuses, Colosseum, baths and gymnasiums? Naked men wrestling? Clearly Christianity was a huge improvement to the ways of old.

>>5947725
Yes it was doing poorly post-plague. However they did get their act together there.

>>5947719
The ban of homosexuality somewhat does.

>>5947734
You have a point. Having a political office equipped with religious authority seems much less horrible than vice versa.

>>5947384
go back to /pol/ pls, or to /cuck/ whatever you like the most

>monks brought literacy, wealth and stability to Northern Europe
I'm dyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying

>>5947749
m8 if you b8 too hard I just end laffin

>>5947751
In the end I think the main threat to order is puritanism.

it's because christianity is less tolerant by its nature than pagan religions. if you believe in multiple deities you are easier to admit the existence of another one, but if you believe in a single deity you make all the other ones devils or wooden dolls and your (his) enemies. it both gave it the power to unite people against vague and uncertain beliefs of pagans (like, i believe in demeter, but demeter is actually cybele, forget it, she is isis and cybele is separate, no way, isis it's io when she fled to egypt etc) and therefore to unite multiple nations, and made it less tolerant than the previous state religion

>>5947768
Not the same anon, but it must be harsh for you to have been proven wrong.

>>5945720
Zizek is a hack that uses little knowledge of Buddhism to push his own narrative. Above all those Zen Masters are japanese. Its not like the Buddhist make up the majority of the soldiers. Would it be accurate to say Christians masters were ready to die in the battle field? Its more nationalism than religion. Most people in the world are religious, but that doesn't mean most conflict is religious.

>>5947824
Pretty much this. Christianity is half atheism, half paganism. Christianity in the state was fedora tipping to 99% of gods people worshiped and calling it backward and unenlightened, in the same way that New Atheism is fedora tipping to every god but science.

>youth fiction section on a malaysian anime forum talking about theology

laffin status: i am

>>5947980
>proven
>le fedora professor iz misleading u christian made evrifin!!!

yea great proof samefag, now go read some Evola about how much the world is worse than you

>>5948070
Still different anon. You seem offended? Did your "back to /pol/" argument not work?

>>5948070
Hey, dummie, if you want to prove that someone is wrong, you do not spout memes and hope they run away. As you can see, your futile tactic used by 13 year olds that browse 9gag and jack off to MLP has not worked.

>>5948097
>>5948122
Your argument seems right
>fedora-tipping, brown-person-worshipping pop historian
>u so mad
>u so mad again

Alas /pol/eeches don't even understand the bullshit they spout

Why would I be offended? The basic truth is taught in universities while your epic revelations will never be heard outside of your containment chan and some forgotten pdfs.

>>5948159
Again, you are spouting things that hold no value. How about you try to actually disprove what is said?

>>5948189
You're the one spouting. Don't you know how to read a thread?
Should you post some of the books about the epic christian wisemen who taught us everything instead?