/lit/ - Literature

Transgenderism doesn't exist

I don't know, but I find it hard to accept transgender people as normal or equal.

If you don't agree with what's between your legs, you have a mental illness or a weird fetish yo

>>5944640
It doesn't seem to be a problem of acceptance as much as a problem of nothing of value having been written about them.

I don't know, why aren't the mentally ill taken seriously in other work.

>>5944650

Kill yourself

We need to genocide transgender people
Even the LGB community hates them

>>5944659
>>5944650

Why would you call it a mental illness? People aren't born lawyers or olympic winners or super muscular athletes.

Why is wanting to grow and develop yourself a "mental illness" ? There should be a book about this

>>5944666
Luckily that's usually exactly what these mutants do

>>5944668

>>5944666
Just say you're a faggot and get it over with. It's not like anyone cares about you.

>>5944672
Massivekek

>>5944668

no they don't. Only feminists hate them because trans perpetuate good social values, like traditional gender roles.

"Protagonist: male" allows for basically unlimited expression and character development. The character is a full human, capable of anything a human can do.

"Protagonist: female" allows for very limited expression and character development. Historically women have done like three things that weren't related to their sexuality, and those three things were all things men do better on a daily basis.

"Protagonist: 21st century autogynephilia fetishist who crossdresses in public either because of a combination of pathological narcissism or the delusion that it's a political act" unsurprisingly allows for even more limited expression and character development.

Maybe, MAYBE you can find a niche reason to write a woman once in a while. Why the fuck would you write the tranny?

>>5944681
Nope, we hate trans people

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/trans-literature-for-the-masses

>>5944681
I think everyone hates them tbh, they're pretty fucking weird.

I'm glad that trans teen committed suicide: I wish all of them would

>>5944671
It's not the act that makes it mental illness, it's thinking that it's normal or should be accepted.

>>5944681
We pretty much hate trannies, yeah.

What do trannies even have anything to do with LGB? LGB is about your right to fuck who you want. Trannies claim they're gender otherkin or something.

Because nobody wants to write about it or read about it

Simple as that

>>5944640
what makes them interesting as characters other then being trans?

Because it inevitably falls into political bullshit
All the chaos around representations of women in media is more than enough to scary away anyone from using non-heteronormative characters
.
I'm a faggot and I don't have desire to read about faggots because all of it seems like thrash. Cite me a book with a gay character where his sexuality matters in the slightest without devolving into persecution tear-jerking or cheap romance.

>>5944704
Yes, the act of saying "biology doesn't real cut my weenie off" is a mental illness. It's even defined as such, I imagine much to the chargrin of perpetually offended morons everywhere.

wow, the /pol/lution is pretty bad in here today

>>5944714

>what makes someone with a very unique, stressful and ostracized life experience interesting

gee I dunno....that's a good question, maybe you should write a book about it

>>5944723
better cry about it passive aggressively while adding nothing

>>5944640
I'm going to pretend this is a serious thread.

Read "Being Emily", by Rachel Gold. You've got Emily (born Christopher) and her girlfriend, who fell in love with Emily while she was still Christopher.

>>5944640
Sometimes i feel like they aren't even real people. Like when Bugs Bunny used to put on makeup and dress up like a girl bunny. He was still Bugs Bunny.

>>5944640
>well-written
People interested in trans/traps are not good writers. These are the fanfiction types on tumblr. If they wrote a book it would come across like a bad sex scene does.

It isn't about "acceptance". One again - you have changed the issue. It is about the fact that writers haven't really done it.

Unfortunately, instead of going out and writing a decent literary character you complain about "acceptance" and how no one would accept one. How do I know if I would accept one if I have never read a character who is trans/trap whatever?

>>5944716

Read any good romance or love story. The sexuality matters.

Duh.

>>5944726
>what makes someone with a very unique, stressful and ostracized life experience interesting

I knew a MtF and had pretty intimate discussion with him and I can confirm that his reasons for transitioning were borderline delusional. It's all "I can't act girly in public" and "I hate having body hair I wanna cut off my penis :((((".

Inevitably he fell into gender theory bullshit to rationalize his insecurities. I guess it's better than confronting yourself.

>>5944728
>Read "Being Emily", by Rachel Gold

I might. But is Gold short for Goldstein?

>>5944723
Shut the fuck up. Not accepting the continually worse parade of marginalized mental atrocies brought increasingly under the media microscope is not "le /pol/". Stop shitposting about a dead board no one uses every time you get offended. Stop forcing your worldview on people who don't give a fuck. If you don't want to hear the truth, don't ask. If trannys and faggots would just accept that nobody cares about who they want to fuck, and stop making their entire lives about ensuring other people know who they fuck, far, far fewer people would feel negatively about them.

>>5944744

>a person found it hard to rationally express a confusing but innate desire

Well, that's understandable

i am pretty sure poppy z brite, who was big n the early 90s, wrote some books with trans characters. then she became one herself

all her books are shit tho

>>5944744
This.

Also, males have much higher incidence of sexual fetishism and MUCH higher incidence of fetishes involving their being feminine/effeminate. MtFs vastly, vastly outnumber FtMs.

It is clearly just a fetish being extrapolated into a hokey political thing so as to justify a persecution delusion and the perpetuation of existing mental problems.

>I can continue being a Chrischan freak who posts on message boards all day, because the world won't accept me for the fat crossdressing retard I am!! ;__;

>>5944750
wow you sound really angry. have you taken all your medication today? do you need a hug?

>>5944640
>Why is it so hard for people to accept trans/traps as legitimate literary characters?
Either their being trans is gratuitous (which will 1-piss off everyone or 2-not make them legitimate characters) or the book is going to be about them being trans, which, really, nobody gives a shit about.

Same reason readers can be annoyed with how nearly every "serious" book with a female protagonist is about the protagonist being female. So basically this >>5944683

>>5944716
>slightest without devolving into persecution tear-jerking or cheap romance.
Oh God so much this.

I got dragged to see drama performances in the drama department at my university. Every single one was - how hard it is to be gay or a woman.

One performance involved a gay revolution against "heteros" with gay people ruling with an iron fist. This was revealed to be the fantasy of a lesbian on the train with the message being - "IF WE TREATED YOU LIKE YOU TREAT US THAT IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE!"

I would love to read well rounded characters where the people were treated like human beings instead of some special unicorn to be protected.

>>5944723
Maybe add something to the discussion instead of complaining.

>>5944683
>>5944712
That's some exaggeration... I enjoyed reading Invisible Monsters, but then again I'm a very casual reader. (I'm only here because the other boards are moving real slow at the moment.)

>>5944751
The problem is that he's basically sexist towards males. He constantly went on about being uncomfortable around them and hating how they look, sound and act. It's hard for me to think of this as normal and acceptable, mental issues pretty clearly comprise transsexualism. And I don't see a big deal with that because I see similar things in homosexuality, in fact I'm pretty sure mine stems from the lack of a father figure and household violence. In any case I ain't gonna start "de-converting" myself, I love loving men, but I've parted with the whole LGBT rethoric.

>>5944759
>making fun of the neuroatypical

Mate that's problematic as fuck

>>5944745
Can't find any indication that it is. Apparently she was or is a PR marketer for some tech corporation.

>>5944768
>muh anecdote about one guy

great way to generalize a huge spectrum of ppl

>>5944765
are you sure you're not mixing your life up with an episode of the IT Crowd?

http://youtu.be/7QkugkvVVVw

>>5944640
It's hard to accept them as legitimate human beings...

>>5944785
Go browse /lgbt/ for a while. The whole board has reached a consensus that trannies are almost universally screwed up. How many examples do I need to personally know to reach a judgment?

>generalization is baaaaad *sob*

>>5944795
i find it hard to accept most people on 4chan as legitimate human beings

Rachel Gold also wrote another good one, "Just Girls".

It's about two girls in college. One is secretly trans, by which I mean no one knows she is, and the second is a lesbian who, after hearing rumors spread through campus about there being a trans girl, claims to be the trans girl to save the unknown trans girl from being found out.

They become roomates.

>>5944799
>Go browse /pol/ for a while. The whole board has reached a consensus that trannies are almost universally screwed up. Yet they secretly jerk off to them daily.

Fixed ^

>>5944785
>Muh every anecdote is one guy

Shut up. Regardless of your sick compulsion to feel badly for every accident of nature, anyone with eyes can see that tranny's are mentally unbalanced attention whores. Pull your head out of your self-righteous ass for once in your deluded fucking life.

Because most people don't relate to them.

Why is it that as soon as transexuals are brought up everybody turns into a Nazi? I'm not a transexual, but I am a transvestite and I cannot understand why it brings up such rage and fury within people. Then again, most people are stupid so that's probably the answer.

>>5944765
The sad thing is that you can't have jokes about gays anymore. I love making fun of fellow faggots, being called on it and then revealing I'm gay, and having them quickly apologize for making assumptions.
These people take themselves way too seriously.

>>5944640
>Why is it so hard for people to accept trans/traps as legitimate literary characters?

Feminists hate them, rightists hate them, leftists hate them, nobody likes them so nobody wants to read about them.

>>5944801
>>5944809
These guys come to this website every day even though they hate it here just so they can get offended and shout into the wind. Can you even imagine how retarded they must be? This is the mentality of people who support these literal freaks.

>>5944810

>when a person suffers, it's good to make them suffer even more and even ridicule them

That's a terrible way to treat others

>>5944640
Wait so is that a guy or a girl?

>>5944813
>I can't understand why people are against glorification of fetished mental illness and self-mutilation

You have no right to insult the intelligence of anyone, fuccboi

>>5944813
>Because most people don't relate to them.

Yet people can relate to mutant superheroes like the x-men, or boy wizards like harry potter? lol

>>5944828
It's a bloke.

>>5944828

She identifies as a girl, although she wasn't born a girl.

>>5944823
Well dumbass, again, this thread is asking for these answers. People don't want to have to walk on eggshells around .0001% of the population that wants to recreationally surgically alter their body and pretend they are the little girl. Get the fuck over it.

>>5944787
>are you sure you're not mixing your life up with an episode of the IT Crowd?
This was not a campy musical but a "serious" piece. Have you never been to a university drama department?

>>5944816
>These people take themselves way too seriously.
Exactly. The fact is that people take the situation way too seriously and it ends up being more offensive than being a homophobe. In being so serious they end up treating people not like human beings.

And this is my issue with it.

>>5944832
Yep. And nobody wants to read about or cares about your poor widdle helpless animals. Stay mad.

>>5944813
In all seriousness, I don't understand it either, as I can't bring myself to hate people based on such things. I haven't been able to understand why people rage over things like homosexuality since I was a kid. You can be opposed to it ethically, but it doesn't justify the kind of extreme hatred that it provokes in people.

The thing is that I reject their theories about gender and the rhetoric they spouse, which means I also have to defend myself from accusations of being some kind of hateful convservative, which I am not at all. I'd have no problem conversing with a transsexual and would probably be interested in learning more about their condition from multiple sources.

Sexuality is fascinating to explore without having to agree with modern neo-marxist politics.

>>5944818
ha. who's offended? you stupid little boy. you haven't learned how to play the game yet. you probably never will.

>>5944829

Its not a mental illness. The Royal College of Pyschiatrists don't class it as such, so it isn't. Mental illness don't exist anyway.

>>5944832

All of those people are relatable because they're ordinary people with extraordinary powers. Transexualism/transvestitism is so far out of the normal person's realm of experience that they can't relate to them. Cyclops is just a norml dude who can shoot lasers from his eyes.

I once read a piece by a trans "woman" who said that lesbians who wouldn't suck his dick needed to check their privilege, it's not really surprising that trans people aren't popular.

>>5944857

>not sucking feminine dick

lesbians are silly.

>>5944854
>*begins to unsheathe katana* ha. who's offended? you stupid little boy. you haven't learned how to play the game yet. you probably never will.

>>5944854
I don't know if you're implying that you're some no-life retard who spends all day pretending to be someone else or if you're admitting to being some sort of subversive eddy of opinion but in case of the latter it must be becoming obvios to you the world is getting tired of identity politics idiocy. the free ride will be ending soon.

>>5944640
They can only be well-written when shown in a negative aspect. Can't have it other way, otherwise it's pandering.

>>5944855
Hahahahahahahahaha. You're a NEET sperg yes?

>no matter who wins this internet argument about trannies, a tranny will still kill themselves somewhere today

>>5944853

I disagree with hypothesis about gender and their rhetoric too, hence why I class myself as "transvestite" instead of "transgender". I acknowledge you cannot physically or mentally change sex and I think gender as a concept is scientifically invalid.

I get accused of being an evil conservative/racist who hates disabled people all the time because I'm a voluntarist in England, where suggesting that maybe stealing people's money to fund other people's lives might not be the best way too do things will get you lynched.

>>5944872

Not NEET, I work in a call centre.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sperg though.

>>5944640
feels fake because you rarely enconter them in real life. simply not relatable to 99% of ppl.

maybe it would work for a very targeted audience like thailand or /b/

>>5944876
You're a libertarian transvestite?

You are literally the scum of the earth

>>5944876
You sound like a bro.

>>5944726
Why don't you, since you are a defender of those trash.

>>5944880

>speaks for 99% of people

stop

>>5944873

>that schadenfreude
>that ressentiment

>>5944838

M-moar pics?

>>5944650
> If you don't agree with what's between your legs, you have a mental illness or a weird fetish yo
So do people who don't accept whats between their head and toes and thus /fit/ have a mental illness?

>>5944888

It makes complete sense, in fact its pretty much the only set of principles that DOES make sense for a transvestite. Not only that, but initiating violence being immoral is logical iregardless of identity.

>>5944878
>I work in a call center
>I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a sperg
>Mental illness doesn't exist
>Thinking when you say "I don't understand" that statement carries any weight whatsoever

I'm overflowing with mirth at your ridiculous pointlessness. I can now nap happily. Maybe keep in mind when you strongly feel ways about stuff that you're a broken moron.

>>5944880

>human beings with different experiences than me are unrelatable and irrelevant

what? how can a trans be unrelatable lol...they eat, and drink, and bleed and fear and love just like anyone else

do you only read about characters that are 100% identical to you?

>>5944750
> mental atrocies
Are you qualified to judge a persons or even a groups mental health?

>>5944808
jesus thats fuck awful

Hey, guys. Naive straight cisgender male here.

Why is there hate/dislike for transgenderism? I know it's a little confusing and some of the spokespeople are reactionary cunts, but why not let people dress/act how they like? Also, look at OPs pic; men make hotter women anyway.

>>5944900
>a tranny probably just died just now

>>5944924
>but why not let people dress/act how they like?
Because they are degenerating the other populace.

>>5944813
As a transvestite i like how it makes people get pissed off. Fuels my fetish. Especially if it's some fag loathing straight guy i'm sucking off.

>>5944924
>but why not let people dress/act how they like

Because society cannot function like that.

>>5944640
Why the everloving fucking fuck is this on the first page, /lit/? For shame. Sage.

>>5944932
>As a transvestite i like how it makes people get pissed off. Fuels my fetish. Especially if it's some fag loathing straight guy i'm sucking off.

Definitely no mental illness here...

>>5944934

>is society's bitch

do you check in with the social order before choosing a camgirl to jerk off to?

>>5944924
Because they're constantly fucking whiny special snowflakes whose justification for snowflaking is some juvenile internet Tumblr fantasy.

How seriously you take your 15 year old brother suddenly thinking he's a Marxist revolutionary is how seriously the world takes trannies.

>>5944935
>fastest thread on /lit/
now you know what your community is really about :)))

>>5944934

Preventing people from dressing/acting how they want non-violently with violence is directly inhibiting the functioning society. Society is a group of humans who interact with each other to fulfill their desires. Preventing people from interacting or pursuing their desires non-violently is anti-social.

>>5944942
I eat shit straight from the ass too

>>5944876
You sound like a pretty cool dude. I'm pretty liberal about these things in the big picture, and I can't imagine the law prohibiting certain expressions of sexuality, we've reached some firm ideas about human freedom. But at the same time I'm open to the idea of my same-sex attraction being some sort of defect and I'm increasingly convinced that the traditional view of marriage is beneficial to the short-lived, emotion-filled constructions of love we have today.

If I have to be constantly called out by both LGBTs and gay-bashers, so be it. Fuck this us-and-them philosophy, it does no good to anyone.

>>5944953
>Society is a group of humans who interact with each other to fulfill their desires

Pure Ideology,liberalism at it's most disgusting, what about solidarity? what about individual sacrifice for the collective?

>>5944956
>we've reached some firm ideas about human freedom
Have we? I got the impression everyone was defining 'freedom' differently these days.

where are the mods
jesus christ

>>5944924

Remember Frollo from the hunchback of nortre dame?? Celibate priest but got seduced by Esmerelda which made him mad at her and himself.

It's like that I think. They are sexually attracted to Traps but they have an ideological problem with homosex. Each post they make bashing Traps is like an atonement for their sins.

Look at this guy, he's a prime example: >>5944928
>>5944873

>>5944975

This is a thread about literature, why aren't you discussing literature?

>>5944973
> what about individual sacrifice for the collective?

do enlighten us on what sacrifices you have made for your collective, you fucking halfwit. i am sure we would all be keen to know.

>>5944935

WHAT BOOKS DO U LIKE?

trap threads are #1 on every board if done correctly. They are a hot topic and popular fetish.

>tfw no bara bf

>>5944979
>anyone who disagrees with my lifestyle wants to fuck me

>>5944956

I have no doubt that traditional marriage is beneficial to relationships between monogamous couples, but if people decide to reject that benefit its a morally neutral decision.

>>5944979
>They are sexually attracted to Traps but they have an ideological problem with homosex

Yugoslav partisans fight nazis, they must secretly want to fuck Hitler!

Mensheviks oppose the Bolsheviks, they must secretly want to fuck Lenin!

>>5944640
i would just like to say that i find the person in OP's pic very sexy, and i would like to introduce my mouth to their genitals, regardless of whether they have boy parts or girl parts.

>>5944979
>You don't like gay people shitting on each other in flamboyant parades in front of your kids? LOL why, does it.. turn you on? ;)

>>5944974
All I'm saying is that it's delusional to call for society to step back and ignore what the majority of people have seen as reasonable for some time. Homosexuals are going to stay and people should get used to them - all it takes is for the media to stop pandering to them uncritically and ideologically.

Also consider that rampant promiscuity is only more fueled by people who don't consider gays capable of monogamy and honest relationships. I'm opposed to promiscuity, but it's pretty obvious how decades of being considered scum homosexuals aren't just going to neatly adopt heterosexual ideas of love and relationships. This shit takes time. I know a bunch of gays who only want to spend their life with a commited partner and ignore the whole media bullshit.

>>5944931
Degeneracy in this case meaning what exacly?

>>5945014
after decades of being considered scum *

>>5945014
>I know a bunch of gays who only want to spend their life with a commited partner and ignore the whole media bullshit.
Yes but statistically gay people are a lot more promiscuous leading to much higher cases of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases.

>>5944973

>pure ideology/liberalism

Its not pure ideology, its philosophy. A society is merely the interactions between humans to fulfill the individual's desires, much like the human is the interactions between various micro-organism to fulfill their desires.

>solidarity

Nothing in my definition denies there can be solidarity.

>individual sacrifice for the collective

Nothing in my definition denies that either. If you think inflicting violence upon individuals is in anyway "solidarity" then you're delusional, and individual sacrifice isn't sacrifice if it is done involuntarily.

>>5944787
Is this show just the British Big Bang Theory?

>>5945031
please explain why lesbians are considered a HIV low risk group

>>5944650
x1000 this

I've never met a tranny who wasn't fucking crazy

>>5945007
>>5945000
>>5944992

>Islamic Sheiks raging on TV about women who reveal their hair, their legs and wear western clothing

>Why? Does it turn them on?

Yes it turns them on. And the louder they rage the more obvious it becomes.

You're being irrationally opposed to a sexuality that is trivial and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, it's not Bolsheviks or Nazi violence...

And you're not just disagreeing with it, you're obsessed with it to the point of wanting to hurt them.

It's completely irrational which suggests there is something deeper going on. Some sort of self-hate.

>>5944876
nearly had me for a second there.

plz explain how your brand of voluntarism isn't just fiscal conservativism fused with right-wing liberatarianism.

'you cannot mentally change sex'
The reason I don't buy into this kind of thing is that we know that subjective perceptions of gender appear to have some basis in anatomical differences in the brain. In many cases, it's been found that assigned-female-at-birth people's brains have an anatomical structure more commonly found in biological males.

I suppose it makes sense that if you can have physically intersex people, you can also have a neurological equivalent.

Not saying that's what you are though, feel free to self-identify whatever you like for all I care.

also post more, you're interesting

>>5945031
I'm aware of the statistics, but I'd posit that that's pretty obvious to explain. Men want sex more than they can get it, and it's really easy to find sex with other men. Seriously, all you have to be is not terribly ugly and you can find someone to fuck on a dating website. If women were this easy to fuck I don't think there would be any significant difference.

>>5944640
I dunno man. My girlfriend found some trap and shemale porn bookmarked on my computer the other day and she was well pissed off, the odd thing is she wants to watch me get sucked off by other men and do me with a strap on, frankly I think traps are mild compared to that. Same ballpark anyway. Women.

>>5945037
it predates TBBT. i guess there are similarities in some of the characters but as it was written by graham linehan (who wrote father ted) the humour is very different.

>>5944973
> what about individual sacrifice for the collective
this is only done due to collectives ability to empower the individual by recognizing their uniqueness

there is no reason for trans people to submit and be repressed by a society that doesn't accept them as themselves

do you even HEGEL

this is the only interesting thread on /lit/ all year.

>>5945056
He's probably expecting people to be celibate their entire life as a sacrifice to the collective

Nobody in their right mind rejects any claim to happiness they might have simply because it could somehow distantly harm society.

>>5945043
Religious fundamentalists banning sex because they feel it compromises public morals does not imply they are reacting instinctively to sexual arousal at those things.

People intensely disliking whiny crybaby faggots does not imply they want to fuck them or some kind of convenient Freudian feelgood shit.

I'm a bisexual who has fucked men, women, and trannies, all casually, and I hate trannies. They're whiny crybaby faggots.

Threads like this one remind me why I hate 4chan and the internet in general. No critical thinking. No empathy.

>>5944907
B/c being over weight or unhealthy is contrary to the normal function of the body. Deciding to drastically change what the body inherently is and how it responds via the use of hormones is contrary to its nature.
Tldr getting big = good
Becoming femboy = contrary to the body's nature

i think this thread needs more pictures of cute traps

>>5945094
No it doesn't. All these pictures are a lie. Lighting, the angles. The bodies plastered with make up.

Sure you can argue that women do the same thing. But they aren't trying to hide male features, facial structures and cocks.

>>5945088

>normal
>inherent
>nature

Is /lit/ really this indoctrinated into the primacy of normative bullshit and tradition?

>>5945094
>badly oversaturated picture of a mannish crossdresser with head held at an angle that just barely hides most of its overwhelmingly masculine features

wow!!! You pass great hon!!

>>5945056
>this is only done due to collectives ability to empower the individual by recognizing their uniqueness

So do you think the Basij, when they where carrying out human wave attacks in the Iran-Iraq war did so because Iranian society empowered them by recognising their uniqueness?

>>5945094
Traps are the best.
All the feminine fetishizing you need without genital mutilation and going crazy due to hormones.
Personally I'm most attracted to moderately feminine men instead of full on crossdressers but I can fap to this just fine.

>>5945078
>People intensely disliking whiny crybaby faggots

>I'm a bisexual who has fucked men, women, and trannies, all casually, and I hate trannies. They're whiny crybaby faggots.

So far you're the whiniest person in this thread.

>>5944931
Degeneracy is a loosely defined term. What do you care for morality anyway?

>>5944934
But why? Society is what we make it.

>>5944946
I'm sure you're just taking the most vocal members of the transsexual community and broadening that view to include the entire group; that's purely anecdotal. How does someone who posts on a literature board not recognize his own logical fallacy?

>>5944979
Yeah, there's possibly some truth in that. There are probably a plethora of reasons, but reacting harshly to your own sexual attraction is probably in the top 10. Hell, I find some transexual's I see attractive, but I know that's because I'm attracted to women and they fit every aesthetic criteria (apart from the crucial sexual organ). Doesn't make me any less straight (well, maybe a little)

ITT:
prescriptivism, biological determinism and other bullshit

>>5945048

It isn't fiscal conservatism because I'm socially Liberal and averse to all violent organizations, such as the states we have today. I could be classified as a right-wing Libertarian in the same way violet can be classed as purple, but I find voluntarist to be much more descriptive.

I agree there is a hypothesis that people of a biological sex can have anatomical differences that may lead to male-like or female-like behaviour. I say hypothesis because it hasn't been proven scientifically that the differences in the brains of "transexuals"/transvestites are the root cause of our "dispostion". Intersex people have gametes or chromosomes that are atypical of male/female, transexuals/transvestites are male/females who's self-identity is consistant with the opposite sex. I don't believe there is a neurological equivilent, I think the fact men/women can have a self-identity consistant with the opposite sex just proves men are capable of having female-identities and women visa-versa. That doesn't change your gametes or chromosomes.

>getting this frustrated over something that has little to no impact on their lives.
>probably the same manchildren who say 'get back 2 the kitchen' to women

>>5945014
1. Love and relationships isn't a hetero idea; it's what you do if you care about someone besides yourself.
2. Yeah, homos are here to stay. Just like murderers, thieves and paedophiles.
3. Obviously the media should stop pandering to them uncritically. The media should also stop pandering uncritically to the leftist world view.
4. None of what you said actually responded to the point that >>5945007 was making.

>>5945133
It proves that there are people with serious identity issues in the same way there are crazy people.

>>5945102
> But they aren't trying to hide male features, facial structures and cocks.

oh i'm sorry. you wanted to see the cock? ok

>>5945135
You know feminists hate trannys far more than men do right?

>>5945135
>if it has no impact on your life you shouldn't care
>you shouldn't care that people are mass marketing an ideology that is legitimating people's mental disorders, wasting years of their lives and tons of their money, and driving many to suicide

have some empathy please

>>5945145
>oh i'm sorry. you wanted to see the cock? ok
All you can do is send these faux witty comments. You can't take any of these criticisms. And honestly? It is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen.

>>5945139
>1. Love and relationships isn't a hetero idea; it's what you do if you care about someone besides yourself.

You're way too naive. The way couples relate to each other is very much culturally constructed. Commited, life-long marriage certainly isn't a natural state of mankind, it's an ideal we aspire to and thus we have institutions to support it. I agree with the ideal personally but it's kinda hard to objectively apply it to everyone.

Do trans people take offence to the idea that being transgendered is a birth defect? I'm not saying it's wrong or unnatural or bad in any way, but even they described themselves as being born into the wrong bodies. So we can consider it an unfortunate defect in the same way we do dwarfism

Post your face when a transgender person just now killed themselves

>>5945176

>>5945176

>>5945103

>normative
This is such a flawed concept. Because you believe that your special brand of you is correct, or even better, therefore the norm is incorrect. This norm exists because enough organisms of the same species exhibit these traits, approx 98%. Biology doesn't want to crush your special snowflake, but it disproves it. In the proper use science it is not a doctrine - despite how many neckband and morons treat it as a religion - it is a tool to understand. So understanding that being contrary to your nature as an organism with certain bits isn't some oppressive dogma, it's reality.

>>5945110
Recognizing their uniqueness, and through that, merit for something better. They did it because the with the society were convinced that they would benefit the society the best through those acts, and that the society would benefit them through offering them whatever incentive it did.

truth to be told, Hegelianism doesn't mix very well with very extreme societies

>>5945176

>>5945170
Most people (close to 90%) with gender disphoria have some form of (pseudo-)hermaphroditism. So yes, there is a biological basis.

Source: My reproductive systems professor who also happens to be trans

>>5945163
>meddling in the personal lives of others
>restricting freedom of choice / personal expression
>empathy

>>5945176

>mfw you stop shitposting

>>5945176

>>5944640
there's a whole genre of lgbt books, quit pretending you're oppressed.

>>5945122
This

>>5945176

>>5945166
> You can't take any of these criticisms

nobody in this thread has made any criticisms worth "taking". it's just another thread full of angry boys, like you, pouring out their undefined impotent rage against things they will never truly understand. same /lit/ different day.

>>5945199
No bias or ideology there.

>>5945215
you got upset

Trans people are the same as furries and should be treated with the same derision

>>5945199
so totally not a biased source amirite?

>>5945214
Messed up the reply meant to reply to the guy he's replying to.

>tfw no bf

>>5945199
So you're saying I can consider it a birth-defect without being offensive?

>>5945191

Social norms are culturally constructed, not based on some outmoded biological imperative or category system. All concepts are socially instructed, including biology, and as such cannot be used in an explanatory way to define a value system as regards normativity without self-reference. Placing value on socially constructed categories as a means of approaching normativity from an ethical or epistemic framework is a fool's errand.

>>5945143

Being unable to fulfill the identiy of oneself an individual has in their mind versus what they really are in reality is one of the most dibilitating dispositions. Just like a man gets depressed and can even suffer self-harming, anorexia, depression or even suicide by having an image of himself being a manly-man, successful business man or even a family man in their mind but not being in reality, a male can experience the same symptoms from having the image of him being female-like in his mind but not being in reality. I like to call it "Indentity Weltschmerz", which is what believe gender dyphoria actually is.

>>5945221
ur not trans, no bias or ideology there

>>5945229
L O N D O N
O N D O N L
N D O N L O
D O N L O N
O N L O N D
N L O N D O

>>5945224
Like sick people who have serious issues and need our help?

>>5945223
and you fapped to the trap pics and felt guilty about it afterwards

>>5945236
Attempting to prove your lifestyle correct has a bit of I hereby confirmation bias.

>>5945221
>>5945225
Yeah man, all those scientific papers I had to read for that class sure were a product of ideology XD

>>5945231
Well the dysphoria isn't a birth defect, it's a mental state of not feeling in sync with your body. The hermaphroditism is a birth defect. But nothing wrong with birth defects.

Honest question for you traditional and angry guys: Why do you care so much if they reduce society's birth rate or things like that? Why do you consider society so important even when it's regarding themes that pretty much have no effect in your life? (since trans are still a ridiculous minority and it's much more likely that you won't meet any in your whole life than the opposite).

>>5945247
Like sick people who have serious issues and should be sent to the gulag

>>5945153
>feminists
from my understanding feminism is an equal rights movement. Surely debasing a 'people' negates the core belief? Sure you're on about actual feminists not the hella-amped, tumblr-blogging stereotypes?

>>5945261
>Why do you consider society so important

Fuck off Margaret Thatcher

>>5945266
>from my understanding feminism is an equal rights movement
Not necessarily. Otherwise some feminists wouldn't be in favor of things like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_utopia

>>5945252
Inherent. Fucking phone
>>5945255
Were they corroborated by other papers, done by people with different backgrounds? And did your prof give you them to read? If your also looking to prove this ideology correct wouldn't you suffer from confirmation bias?

>>5945255
Well, I suppose not, but even the individuals themselves would rather live without it.

>>5945266
Egalitarianism is true equality Mayne.

Sure is straight white prettyboy in here

>>5945286
I dunno, having a sixth finger would be kinda cool.

>>5945292

You know, demonizing the people you're debating isn't very intelligent. And this is coming form a transvestite.

>>5944640
Write about it yourself and quit complaining about what other people choose to write about.

Dumbfuck.

>>5945292
It's statistically likely that every thread on every board (except the obviously guy/fetish centric threads on b, cm, lgbt , fit, hm) is filled to the gills with straight males

>>5945295
Is being trans a benefit though? (A sixth finger isn't a benefit anyway, it gets in the way)

I think this is why people have such a hard time accepting trans people as "equal". Horrific as it may bet, it's understandable.

>>5945292
oh i'm sorry
wouldn't want you to feel left out

>>5945310
Gay. fucking phone again.

>>5945292

>>5945321
JESUS FUCK
SWITCH OFF THE PREDICTIVE TEXT ALREADY

>>5945037
Essentially yes.

>>5945281
We had to do our own research on hermaphroditism, so no.

>>5945330
I'm just going to take the effort to walk three feet to my computer. It was leg day today so it may take a bit.

>>5945279
Let's face it people demonise everything because of the extremists and then find it hard to take it seriously

>>5945314
>A sixth finger isn't a benefit anyway, it gets in the way
Unless you play an instrument or w/e then it'd be cool.

I don't see how the argument of "beneficial" holds up. Lots of people lead entirely unbeneficial lives.

>>5944745
>Born Christopher
>Is Gold a Jew?

this thread is a cool good reminder that /lit/ is a complete waste of time and being the smartest board on 4chan is like being the nicest smelling turd

>>5945349
What argument? My point is that transgenderism is a birth defect

>>5945367
Oh.
Well, scientifically speaking you would be wrong.

>>5945133
>>5945133
There is some science that suggests otherwise, but I concede at this point the studies are quite small so you can take them or leave them, but they convinced me.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VKhyNCusVLY
The 'recent neurological theories of transsexualism' section of http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TScauses.html
genetic link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7689007.stm

I like the idea that we're free to craft our own gender identities. But sexual dimorphism is very real, and I doubt it stops at the brain or that it can't affect behaviour. One of the studies quoted in the second article where intersex boys who were surgically altered to be anatomically female, but still ended up identifying as male, lends some weight to this.


I'm a social anarchist, but leaning towards 'power structures need to be justified' more than the 'there is no good to be found in the state' point of view. I don't think we can really rid ourselves of the state - only rehabilitate it.

For us to have a functioning society, we need to regulate the financial sector. It's a matter of stopping the kind of thing that caused the most recent crash. Corporations need regulating to ensure their social cost is minimized, or eventually the crisis of income inequality is going sink the boat completely. To an extent we can do this through a strong labour movement, but not entirely.

People are never going to allow the social healthcare we have in Europe to be taken away. When we didn't have it, it was easy to imagine a world with no state. Now that we do, we need laws to ensure access isn't unfairly denied, some way to ensure standards are consistent and high, etc etc. There might be some way to do this other than the state. But, whatever it was, I think it would be a case of if it walks like a state, talks like a state, then it's a state.

There's nothing to say that it couldn't be totally, unyieldingly democratic and highly decentralised. There's nothing to say that most governing couldn't be done through workers' self-management, anarcho-syndicalism and the labour movement. But the fact is that we're always going to have a need for /something/ to fulfill state-like functions.

>>5945292
Where the fuck do you think you are. If you don't like it, they go make your own site you fucking trash.

>>5945367
I have never quite understood why thinking you are another gender trapped in another genders body isn't classified as a mental illness. Can anyone elaborate as to why it isn't classed this way? Or where it is classed as such?
Thanks in advance.
As a lot of you, I am quite eeried out by trans people as normal people by the sheer reason of them denying their biology thus me assuming that there must be something wrong in their brain or chemical balances.

>>5945380
Ideology. No sarcasm or memes in that. It's just ideology. It's called genderism.

>>5945380
IMO you should read about intersex people, it's interesting and you can't deny their gender confusion in that case
I don't know if what they go through is anything comparable to trannies but if it is I could understand them

>>5945380

Sex =/= gender

Get it?

>>5945398
I get it and deny it.

>>5945407
There's not much to deny when we're talking about definition of words.

>>5945398
No. You are wrong. You are stating that sex and gender are something totally different from eachother, which they are not. I cannot choose my sex to be some odd never heard of thing.
What I was saying is why, if sex and gender do not allign is it not classified as a mental issue if it clearly poses an issue.

>>5945412
I know, but you get what I'm trying to say, right?

>>5945407

The biological categories of male and female are not the same as the social categories of masculinity and femininity

Agree/disagree

>>5945427
Sociological views on male female comes from our biology/nature/soul.

>>5945380
You can't define just anything as a mental illness.
If you say a mental illness is the lack of ability to function in ordinary life that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with transsexuality. A lot of them are depressed but some live just fine. It's probably more accurate to say that the phenomenon seems to have a correlation with related mental conditions.

>>5944640
You've got body dimorphism. You're just as fucked up as people who got messed up faces from to much plastic surgery.

It's not hard to accept that this can be caused because of a difference in the brain chemistry or incorrect levels of hormones. I'll even give you the fact that someone can be born with it or genetically predisposed.

However all of that still makes you crazy. If this didn't have to do with gender we'd call a dog a dog and move on.

>>5945432

Your views on biology/nature/the soul come from the social order

>>5945434
Yes but like >>5945436 said, what about social dimorphism?

People really need to read The History of Sexuality here.

>>5945443
>>5945443
That doesn't make them incorrect.

>>5945373

My point was that even if males and females are found to have anatomical differences that cause them to identify as a different sex, that doesn't prove they are the sex, it proves that males and females are capable of behaviours of the opposite sex. I'm a transvestite and I'd bet if you observed my brain compared to a normal males brain their would be differances, but that would just proves males are capable of female behaviour.

I'm a social anarchist too, however, I believe in constructive a private organization to end violent interactions between humans. It depends on what you mean by "state" - I class the state as being neccessarily violent, so its in direct conflict with voluntarism.

>for us to have a functioning society, we need to regulate the financial sector

Why? Under what definition of society are you operating? Individuals trading physical objects or services for currency is a relationship that is none harmful, so I don't see why it needs to be regulated with violence.

Corperations need to be gotten rid of entirely. Treating a company like it is a person is stupid and contradicts reality.

>income inequality

I don't see why this is a bad thing in principle.

The kind of healthcare we have in Europe is inefficient, depends on the government taking property from people with the threat of violence and is unfair. But if we're ever going to replace it, we need to discuss what we're going to replace it with rather than the imoorality of the current system. People won't place their lives in the hands of ideology.

Yes, we always need a relpacement of the state, and there's lots of ideas of how to do this. But the fact is, the state will not let these ideas come to fruition without a fight, which is why its important to put those ideas out there.

>>5945427
It seems pretty obvious to me that a large part of our notions of masculinity and femininity are constructed.

This however doesn't mean that there aren't innate differences, just that if you were to list them there probably wouldn't be many.

People would have a lot less trouble all-around if we got over these cultural constructions but I can't think of any reasonable way to go around doing that.
There isn't any biological reason that only women should wear skirts, have specific bodily movements and be given specific toys as children, but what can we do about it? The theories that we get exposed to are far too unrealistic.

It doesn't matter how/why they exist. They are people who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

If only you guys read Kant and knew real morality.

>>5945371
No I wouldn't.

I'm not saying it's a mental illness, I'm saying it's a physical birth defect. The people are put into the wrong bodies. Even they themselves say this.

>>5945447

Any value judgement you make about the origin of gender identity as a binary is necessarily defined by prior social conditions, the correctness of any such judgement is subject to parameters ready-made through constructed models of language and social order. As such you can't make any statement on the primacy of nature or order as a transcendent map for dealing with the signified other than a tautology, a self-referent. You're effectively not saying anything than hasn't been said from the confines of a reductionist, essentialist position on sexuality and behavior. It's not that simple and it certainly isn't deterministic

>>5945436
Excuse my ignorance, but didn't societies as time passed create the ideas of what is adequate for a woman to wear, and so on? Why are trans people so obsessed with embracing ideas that are just associated with the opposite gender? How can a hormonal imbalance create this if it's all human invention? Or since they themselves associate clothes and the like with the opposite gender, and thus cling onto it as if it made them feel closer to the opposite gender? It feels more to me like a social phenomena rather than a biological one, but I'm probably wrong since apparently there are neurological evidences saying the opposite.

>>5945475
Well transgenderism/dysphoria isn't a birth defect. It's the effect caused by the brain-body dysmorphia.

>>5945475
>>5945495
*With the brain-body dysmorphia being the birth defect.

>>5945234
Empirical evidence and statistics are irrelevant because muh feelz .

>>5945495
>It's the effect caused by the brain-body dysmorphia.

isn't fetal development an important part of that?

>>5945494
They embrace the ideas since they are associated with femininity. Obviously if you pass for a female in society you will be classified as a female and treated as such.

There sure seems to be fetishism for female clothing though. But again I don't think it's universal...

>>5945513
yes>>5945501

>>5945495
WHATEVER

The point is that it's an abnormality. Not that that's anything wrong with that. But it's why "normal" people often find it hard to consider them equal. It's not because they're evil or imperialist.

>>5945511

What do statistics have to do with gender binaries in this context?

all this transgender stuff means that everyone who thought gender didn't exist or was socially constructed is horribly, horribly wrong right?

>>5945525
Yeah sure, I can get why lots of people are weirded out by it basically being deviant from the social norm, but that doesn't excuse outright bigotry, hatred or violence.

>>5945528
Well a lot of trans are going to try to sell it as a personal freedom to express themselves in the gender identity of their choice.
Gender then simply becomes a template that people fit into out of their own choosing.
And this is where the whole thing starts to sound completely insane.

>>5945528

Gender and gender identities are social constructs, this doesn't make them unimportant or uninteresting. Gender roles can have empowering or oppressive character in different contexts, as defined and reified by the dominant modes of discourse

>>5945541
>Gender then simply becomes a template that people fit into out of their own choosing.
And this is where the whole thing starts to sound completely insane.
I just don't even know what gender is after seeing all the possible facebook gender options.

>>5945542
But how can feeling like your body is wrong possibly be a social construct

>>5944750
>If trannys and faggots would just accept that nobody cares about who they want to fuck
Are you seriously this fucking stupid.

>>5945539
Or my finding trans girls cute as gay :^)

>>5945556

All ideas about 'bodies' and 'right' and 'wrong' are contained within and defined by the social order

>>5945558
But he is right you know?

>>5945559
Once you start thinking about it, sexual orientation in tranny cases is pretty confusing
Luckily I'm bi and my cock couldn't give a damn but I sympathize with trap lovers being confused

>>5945569

This thread is proof you're wrong

>>5945568
But these people often simply feel, from a very young age that they have the wrong body. What is your proof that they are given this idea by society rather than having a brain that was supposed to be for the opposite sex?

>>5945528
there's no debate about whether or not gender is socially constructed, the definition of gender is "the socially constructed aspect of sex." the whole point of being transgender is that you do not feel that your biological sex lines up with the socially constructed aspects of sex with which you identify.honestly if you don't come into the issue yelling your bad opinion loudly you can figure this shit out pretty easily

so much dumb bullshit about "birth defects" in this thread as if anybody really understands mental illness in a biological sense well enough to say what's a mental illness (it's a checklist, not a cancer diagnosis), or what portion of mental illness has its roots in sociology instead of biology. hate transgender people if you want but don't pretend you have a scientific reason for it.

I don't want to read about these abominations.

>>5945569
Yeah they sure don't care, I guess that's why they publicly beat gays to death

They don't care as long as gays hide in dark alleyways to be with the person they want to be with. Oh and they can't live together since it would be too suspicious and neighbours would find out

You're a fucking retard if you really think people don't care that people are gay. To a lot of people that's a huge fucking concern. They don't want them to be secretly gay, no, they want them out in the open where they can fuck them up.
I'm glad you live in a dreamland where nobody cares but we don't

Its a gimmick. Just like black people used to be a gimmick, give it time.

>>5945583
I think it makes much more sense to think of gender as the psychological correspondent to physical sex, something which is given to you at birth and shows female and male differences in brain structure and composition.

The 'gender' you're talking about sounds more like the set of assumptions about gender and sex that people have

>>5945475
>Even they themselves say this.
The same way someone who happened to live under a communist regime isn't an expert on the economical aspect of the system, just being trans doesn't mean you fully understand yourself. It's a pretty common thing in the US that trans people have to convince themselves that they are sick to receive hormones and physical treatment, obviously 20 or 30 years of that will convince someone that things are that way.
The real question should be why would it matter how natural it is. Someone feels like that, people have felt like that all through out history. You shouldn't have to justify if you like music, if you want to go to law school or if you feel like the opposite gender.

>>5945580

All ideas are socially constructed. There is no such thing as a 'self' or a 'brain' outside of relation to an other

>>5945176

>>5945613
Gender is not just an idea, it is an experience

>>5945583
Sure, but there's a huge wall between expressing yourself in a different gender and cutting off your genitals and taking chemicals to attempt to completely change your biology. I don't think people are intimidated by the former, but they sure are about the latter. If you have to mutilate yourself to express some desire it's pretty fucking impossible to not think of it as a mental disorder.

>>5944640
>I wanna read about them...
<-


Is this thread going to reach 1000+ before it dies like on /lgbt/?

>>5945598
Enjoy your leftist oppressed gays narrative.

>>5945569
The majority of cultures around the world condemn/frown-upon homosexual relations.

>"Gender identity disorder is a real condition"

If you're a man and want to be a woman, go right ahead, but don't expect anyone to pity you or treat you equally. You're a freak and will continue to be seen by society as such.

>>5945600
I'm really happy that it makes sense to you to think about it that way but it's not what the word means or how it's used. It also confuses psychology and biology (which lots of people here seem to be confusing).

>The 'gender' you're talking about sounds more like the set of assumptions abou tsex that people have
Right. This is the socially constructed aspect of sex. This is the definition of gender

>>5945633
>narrative
>looking at videos of people beating people to death in my country is narrative
>reading mass calls for extermination is narrative

Kill yourself

>>5945583
Look when people have other types of body dimorphism you don't play along with their delusions. Doctors who do play along with the delusions of these sick people are morally bankrupt. They wouldn't cut off someones ears because that person claimed it made them ugly and they hated the look of it (I'm simplifying this persons reasoning). So why should Doctors cut off a dick or stitch up a cunt? The act of playing along with these peoples delusions is just treating the symptoms of their sickness. The whole practice is morally bankrupt.

>>5945583
It's hilarious how a bunch of people below you are proving your point.

>>5945646
People were beaten to death for a lot of things, gay is one of the last.
What are you, a Muslim?

>>5945642

What is a freak?

The degeneration is reaching a tipping point. It won't be long until people start mating with their pets.

>>5945646
Sorry but do not give us stories or anecdotes as evidence.
Likewise I have heard of calls of extermination for white straight males and being beaten to death for just being white.

>>5945656

>start

Are you new to 4chan?

>>5945646
Lol who cares? You have a choice of whether you want to change sexes; if you don't want society to oppress you then don't be a fucking weirdo and pretend to be a woman. You people who act like trannies are an actual oppressed group are absolutely insane.

>>5945640
Majority of cultures frown upon a lot of things.

>>5945653
eastern european

>>5945645
>the word means or how it's used.
The word has been used in different ways in its history and even today is not always used in the sense you describe. And no it doesn't confuse them, it implies that the two are related(ie male psychological disposition would be related to male biology).

You needn't be so condescending, not everybody lives in your sociology bubble, and its tenets aren't infallible.

>>5945659

Citation please

>>5945261
I met more than a couple, and some of them, I wish I had had the courage to walk up to them and chat them up, get their numbers, etc

>>5945640
The majority of cultures once believed there were several gods that when pissed off, would ruin the world of humans.

>>5945664
So am I. There have been no such things since the communist regime that killed gays back in 45'.
Now nobody cares outside of them screaming oppression and we want rights we already have but somehow don't have.

>>5945662

>if you don't want society to oppress you then actively change your behavior according to society's arbitrary metric

Reactionaries are such prissy bitches

>>5945583
>there's no debate about whether or not gender is socially constructed, the definition of gender is "the socially constructed aspect of sex."
I don't wanna keep fanning this thread but its so nice to see a more direct and simple understanding about a topic from another board in /lit/. This is just a superior board.

>>5945659
>>5945678

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUOH7nrVfys

>inb4 "they were asking for it"

if a man can choose to be a woman and be recognized as one does that mean I can choose to be black because I really want to be able to say nigga in public

>>5945667
There is no need for that. Go on tumblr, go on any news site, facebook, CNN, whatever.
Racial murders do happen regarding whites too, you know.

>>5945622
Some people mutilate their faces because they aspire an unattainable ideal of beauty. They're not treated as freaks. Not in the way transexuals are.

>>5945687
No, they were not. But it is a fucking anecdote. That is all it is.

>>5945687
Aha srbi. It's literally the most backwards country in Europe.

>everyone look at me im a TRAP lol!! xD :3

:3::::33333333333

I don't even hate traps I just feel bad for them, what sad little neurotic escapists.

>>5945040

Agreed.
Most of them end up in the BDSM community, which is full of dysfunctional twats.

Also, if you listen to their personal stories, abuse is there.
And most of

>>5945700
Are you completely fucking delusional? This shit happens every time in Serbia. There are dozens of videos of people being beaten up and cops literally running in fright of the MASSES of people beating them up to a pulp. God fucking damn it everything is an anecdote to you people. Yeah I bet that guy being kicked on the floor by ten people at once is lucky because it's an anecdote.

Kill your dumb self

>>5945693
Depending on how much they mutilate themselves. But I can't say I support either.

>>5945690
>Go to tumblr
>Facebook, CNN
>not leftist propaganda
Top kek

>>5945715
As you can see, you have not revoked anything what I said, you just spouted a meme. Top kekkek lellelel LoloL!! Right?
>>5945708
And no, I am not. But it is fucking stupid to put this ones country as an entire social happening. Which it is clearly not.

>>5945721
For anyone living in the Balkans, this is a reality.
Serbia may be the most backwards, which doesn't mean all the other countries are magically exempt. The rates of people being seriously injured are lower - they're still frighteningly high.

>>5945708
Bre anon lets go to sleep.

>>5945731
Brate mogu ti samo reći da sam sretan što nisam gej u Srbiji, bar u Hrvatskoj mogu preživjet

>>5945730
It is, and it is insane to me that this is still happening. Regardless, this is a very national problem and I think this most certainly doesn't happen to this extend in other countries.

>>5945730
No it isn't. Gays are aside political mafia the most protected group of people in the country here. They have a series of laws that protect them and oddly the laws are not ignored. It's one of the few things that are still done according to law lol

>>5945380

Psychologist here. Right now we're using DSM-V, which is THE diagnostic book, listing symptoms for every mental disorder:
>Feel sad and gloomy? Depression
>Counting steps all day? OCD
>Boo! Scaredy-cat, you got some sorta phobia.

In the first DSM, which came out decades ago (not sure when, maybe 60's?) they had homosexuality, transvestites and a host of other "degenerates" classed as mental illness, all with their corresponding symptoms. Little by little the scientific comittee started to get more PC (or the queer lobby, as I heard it labeled, started to gain traction inside said comittee) and started removing all those hurtful diagnostics. This process got stronger and stronger, specially after DSM-III. Which is why today, nothing of this is considered a mental illness. Should it? I haven't got a clue, it's really complex. But everyone making the manual knows behind the labels and diagnostics there is a shitload of politics and special interests lobbying.

>>5945746
You consider the fact they're protected because the number of people who wouldn't flinch at them being violently beaten is very high?

>>5945687
this shit still happens in Russia.

>>5945742
U Hrvatskoj im je super. Svi mogući zakoni su donijeli te se rigorozno provode. Nije bilo nasilja valjda 15 godina (osim nakon ozbiljnih provokacija u Splitu).

>>5945755
Ah. Interesting. Thanks for commenting. What is your view though? Or are you remaining neutral due to the complexity?

>>5945761
They are protected by laws and there has been no violence on a serious scale. And the violence that was there was punished accordingly.
It's almost safer being gay than not being because police and the media react more and faster if the a gay is in question.

>>5945788
>>5945746
Wow. I had no clue. I was already expecting that it was merely a case made out of anecdotes and stories.

>>5945793
Do you want laws citated? Number of assaults on gays?
Also I'm not the anecdotal anon.

Anyway good night, we need less of this and more actual literature.