/lit/ - Literature

he was a cakeboy

Real human bean

he was a conservative reactionary who wrote stories involving death and beauty as a theme

>>5921483
>conservative reactionary
That's an oxymoron.

He was a ballsy motherfucker, that's for sure. Seppeku in contemprary society is something else

>>5921490
No, it's redundant.

he was really short and pretty gay

he hated who and what he was and his writing and increasingly eccentric lifestyle were ways of coming to terms with that

>>5921744
Like realllly short, 5'1"

And he was realllly fucken gay. I blame his grandmother for turning into such a fag.

He's such an interesting person. It probably all boils down to repressing his homosexuality though. All of his talk about the spiritual state of Japan and his notion of restoring the divinity of the emperor was all actually about himself, as is the case with pretty much every single person who ever wrote anything.

Getting glimpses into his mind is fairly entertaining though. He had a crazy fucking world view.

the only thing i've read of him is confessions of a mask

what should i read nexT?

>>5922343
sailor who fell from grace with the sea

"Dicks"

man is the animal

He was a gay boi who spent his life trying to deny that fact.

>>5921447
He was born at a wrong time.

>>5922425
That's what he always told himself, but he was actually just depressed and existentially devoid because he repressed his true self, his gay self, inside for so long that it died under the weight of the facade he put up for the world. He made it seem like his struggle was for the spiritual health of his country, but it was all for the spiritual health of himself.

>>5921447
Why these repressed homosexual have to deny their sexuality so much?

Couldn't they become like greeks? Fucking men and don't even care about it.

Mishima isn't even christian.

>>5922460
It's emasculating and degenerate. Homosexuality is a shameful, self satiating condition that puts pleasures of the flesh over the intrinsic role of man in nature. It's weakness and moral corruption incarnate, found only in stagnate civilizations wallowing in a pit of their own opulence without any true purpose.

He wanted cock but no one would give it to him.

>>5922487
He likely never had a problem getting cock, it was that he couldn't bare his love of cock to the world.

>>5922485

Lots of words there bub.
Not many of them have an actual meaning but at least they sound cool.

4chan avant la lettere.

Reading his Golden Temple was fun.
He goes full cuck when that American soldier is abusing that Japanese whore and pushing him aside like it's nothing.

>>5922571
He's basically saying he would be happier if someone put them in a time machine and sent them to 15th century Europe, where he could starve, contract the bubonic plague and be tortured by inquisitors without all these stupid faggots tempting his purity with their sexy bodies.

>>5922591
>them
him*

>>5922577
So he wanted to watch or what?

>>5922571
You're on /lit/. That sentence shouldn't be too hard for you anon. Come on.

>>5922615
He's not saying he can't understand it, he's saying it's empty bullshit.

>>5922597
It's a shitty meme, just ignore it

>>5922597

No he got off at the thought of an American alpha brute fucking and abusing a Japanese woman.

>>5922631
How is it empty? It's the exact reason he repressed his homosexuality.

>>5922159
>>5921744
Kept he was fucking the emperors girl before him

>>5922485
Nothing manlier and noble than conquering a sissy boipussy, grunting like the warriors of old, hoplites and samurai.

>>5922343
would definitely recommend temple of the golden pavilion

Repressed homosexuality leads to some insane shit. Why is that?

>>5922485
like ancient greece ; > )??

>>5922879
Spot on anon.

>>5922879
>defending buggering 13 year old boys just because your favourite philosopher partook in it

>>5922894
>yfw buggering 13 year olds was an act of friendship and trust

>>5922922
Well of course if you let the pederasts right the history books they will claim the boys loved it.

>>5922922
This is always spread around like truth, but homosexuality was frowned upon even in ancient Greece. It was considered just a sad emasculation and humiliating to take the dick

>>5922954
>homosexual deviants and their enablers
>caring about the truth
>any year

How Spring Snow and the others of the trilogy?

>>5922954
What I've heard about this was that if you wanted to fuck little boys because you liked their small little assholes and how your cock would feel inside of them you were considered a sick man but if you wanted to fuck them because of your higher appreciation of their youth and beauty it was ok.

>>5921741
kek

>>5922997
The patricians always found a way to justify their degeneracy

homosexual reactionary that tried and failed to start a military coup.

>>5923444
And made some god-like literature in the process.

>>5922997
It was not frowned upon at all times. Also, being the top was not considered gay. Only the bottom was gay :)

>>5923444
>tried and failed to start a military coup

He didn't intend to succeed, he wanted a heroic death.

>>5921447
The Jews fear the samurai!

>>5922663
Yes, he was engaged to her. Pretty sure he didn't fuck her though.

>>5923559

>>5923565
that picture isn't even real you know

>>5921447
who is that? gabriela mistral?

>>5922485
>muh degeneracy

>>5923558
[citation needed]

>>5923602
I'm sure he did want to succeed in some way but it seems obvious that he would have at least somewhat yearned for death like that. His books and interviews are good enough citations for that, specifically Patriotism

>>5923444
Say what you want about mishima but he had some guts.

He was a gay author who didn't fight in the war and that brought much shame to his family.

Every day he told himself, "If I was a banking executive war vet with muscles and a wife, my daddy would love me."

At least he got the muscles.

>>5923591
Yes.

>>5923602
Read Confessions of a Mask and Runaway Horses.

>>5923665

>>5923657
>he did want to succeed in some way
He wanted to be an example to future generations.
>>5923673
And a wife.

>>5923575
Now that's a bummer. They didn't make pics as masturbatory aids ? It's Japan after all.

>>5922440
I don't think that he was depressed of devoid like you said, or at least unwillingly. He probably thought he was some kind of living work of art having those strange values.

>>5923689
do you think when he was humping her, unlovingly and mechanically, that he thought to himself, 'i am sorry dad, i wish i loved her, i want these dirty thoughts of hairy muscly boys out of my head forever'?

>>5923681
Joke aside, how many other authors try to start a military coup to restore their emperors to go with their suicide? Fucking none, that's what.

MANLINESS

>>5923556
So who is technically gay here

>>5924195
The first three

>>5922340
>repressing his homosexuality

As a Japanese? As long as you marry and rear children for family and country no one cared (and still cares) if you fuck pretty boys on the side. Next you're going to tell us Socrates was repressing his homosexuality.

>>5921447

manlet rage, he was like 155cm

he was 5 feet tall and a closet homo

that pretty much explains it all

>>5922485
>degenerate, pleasures of the flesh, moral corruption incarnate
>muh autist Christian buzzwords

>a shameful, self satiating condition that puts pleasures of the flesh over the intrinsic role of man in nature
Everything in the world today could arguably fit this description. How about all fucking that isn't solely for the purpose of procreation? Wasting time on the internet? What is that's function in nature?

Also, what in your opinion is the "intrinsic role of man in nature"? Your answer will be cultural, and probably not that convincing to anyone who doesn't already believe it.

>>5921447
he was THE last samurai

>>5924320
You're acting like I wasn't entirely talking about America in that post. Yes, I fully believe we live in morally and spiritually desolate times

>>5925444
>Yes, I fully believe we live in morally and spiritually desolate times
What would not be morally and spiritually desolate times?

>>5925526
3027102-3102 BC + 3456000*n years where n is any negative or positive integer

>>5925526
It's not something you can pin point to any specific era. Spiritual and moral contentment is something found in small moments between individuals, not on a grand scale of civilization It's an ideal that we strive for, but I question whether or not humanity is truly capable of achieving it.

But especially now, we live in disingenuous times, and our lifestyles are backwards and devoid of authenticity

>>5921741
rookt

he was overcompensating for being a gay manlet

>>5925566
>authenticity
This as some special and general value was born in our own times though. Nobody cared about authenticity or had any concept of it before our times, except for trades and shit.

>>5925595
That doesn't mean it didn't exist then anon. Hell, much of Plato's Republic discusses the nature of authenticity in man.

>people caring more about how an author lives his life then the books he read

This isn't the biography board

>>5925648
books he wrote I mean.

>>5925654
The books he wrote were all about how he lived his life. If you're interested in his books, you're interested in his life.

I liked him.
People just aren't this passionate anymore.

>>5925608
>That doesn't mean it didn't exist then anon.
That's what I meant though.
>much of Plato's Republic discusses the nature of authenticity in man
Give me one example of any Ancient Greek writing about authenticity. And I don't want just some confused projections like the one above, ethics is not synonymous with authenticity.

>>5921447
He had a lot of nipple hair

>>5921741
Your lack of comprehension, evident as it is, disgusts me.

>>5925914
ox·y·mo·ron
äksəˈmôrˌän
noun
a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction

"Conservative reactionary" is not an oxymoron. The terms don't contradict. Someone can easily be both. Do you think a reactionary is left-wing or something?

>>5921447
ITT : Be a genius, 50 years later everybody disregard your work and claim you were a repressed homosexual overcompensating for being small.

>>5926090
>he reads novels by short people
>laughinggirls.jpg

>>5922362
The blacker the sun
The darker the dawn

>>5922487
if I was gay I would've fucked him. good looking guy. but only if

>>5926090
>genius

lol...umm no. he was crazy. and i think teens identify with him because they're bored and are looking for excitement from too much television and vidyo games.

>>5927497
>"Look at me, guys, I'm an idiot!"

>>5927497
>lol...umm no
Somehow, reading your post I got the impression that you've never even attempted reading any of his books, let alone understood them.

>>5926117
>he reads
>laughingjocks.jpg

>>5921447
Closet homosexual with poor male father figure who therefore became fetishist to archaic ideals of honour, masculinity and made patriotism his dad. A tortured soul whose writing holds a great deal of delicacy, surprisingly so, great writer. Disagree with everything he stands for but I like him.

>>5928258
>Disagree with everything he stands for
Even with the "corruption must be eradicated" part?

>>5928258
>His father also raided Mishima's room for evidence of an "effeminate" interest in literature and often ripped apart the boy's manuscripts.
What a jerk

repressed homosexuality, issues with masculinity and a crushed sense of national pride

>>5928339
Sounds like an accurate description of /pol/fags.

>>5922862
he never repressed it, he had all the pretty Japanese boys he wanted. He just wasn't open about it. The fuck does this even matter in the first place

>>5928372
>He just wasn't open about it
He even wrote an autobiography where he extensively talks about it when he was 22.

>>5928398
Confessions of a Mask isn't an autobiography anon.

He wanted to turn his life into a work of art.

Beautiful hybrid of Aristotle and Nietzsche via Japanese samurai culture: all of his life directed and unified under one creative, life-affirming, destructive/creative stream of purpose.

He made himself into a Temple and then destroyed it.

>>5928345
You mean fascists. /pol/fags are just good old reagan zombies

>>5922340
So let's assume that the student movement agreed with Mishimas call to leave the emperor alone. What would have happened next?

was Confession of a Mask controversial when it came out?

>>5928523
Even today it would be, this guy is insane

>>5928535
um please don't act like you don't jerk it to imagining nubile young men being shot to death like St. Sebastian
I meant more the gayness

>>5928535
Anon, what exactly about that book do you think would even be remotely controversial

>>5928571
The part when he dreams he's eating his comrades, his obsession about death and suffering and all the childish pseudo-sadistic stuff

>>5928562
No I never cared about it. I fell in love with Sonoko during the read though, like literally

>>5928596
>>5928571
I was more asking if it was taboo to be gay in Japan at the time, a quick google search told me that even today it's something usually kept on the dl?

>>5928628
Actually, traditional societies are okay with homosexuality as long as it's discrete and you get married, only in puritanical societies you'll see the drama stuff (I mean Saudi Arabia and America). So I guess the book was more of a scandal because of its crudeness

>>5928258

I love to read scrawny hipsters on an image board trying to use armchair psychoanalysis on dead literary greats

>>5925586

which of Oe's books is this by the way?

One aspect of Mishima's life people have overlooked is the fact that he did not participate in the war because he faked illness. The fact that he committed such a cowardly act definitely reflected in his nonfiction writings and death as a way to reaching and keeping beauty.

The gay thing is interesting because his widow has tried to downplay that side of his life and legacy. The Schrader film was supposed to include overt references to Mishima's sexuality, but was rejected by the widow. But it's quite obvious that Mishima was not simply repressing his homosexuality like so many people on this board are claiming: he was most likely leading a double life, like banging dudes while traveling abroad. The militia itself was also noted for having homoerotic undertones. It's possible Mishima was getting his kicks out with his students while preparing his suicide.

I read Shiosai and I found it to be surprisingly trite. Though, it was a pretty relaxing read. Still it felt pretty impersonal especially for what I imagined Mishima to be.

>>5928708
maybe "rouse up o young men of the new age."

if not then I need to think on this some more. I've read most of oe's novels available in englishbecause he's one of my favorites.

>>5928910
>rouse up o young men of the new age

just looked it up and I was right.

anyone else with some oe questions? I'm feeling kind of fancy here. when does he eber get mentioned here??

>>5928708
I love to read underage redditors on an image board trying to appear above the age of 13

Navigate back to 9gag and stay there, kid

>>5930665
nice try im a 6'3 135lbs male model draped in ann demeulemeester shut the fuck up nerd

>>5931615
you sound very cool and secure

>>5931615
Good job, why don't you tell everyone on memebase how you showed those mean anonymous posters who's boss, kiddo

>>5928919
Where should I start with Oe?

>>5931628
>>5931646

Come fight me irl fgts.

>>5922487
>He wanted cock but no one would give it to him.
Dude, he literally had his own private army of fags.

>>5931652
read the silent cry. in my top 5 books best books I've ever read.

if you can read his short story "the catch" aka "prize stock" it's really great.

my top three go:
-the silent cry
-nip the buds, shoot the kids (even mishima liked it!)
-a quiet life

there are a few books of his I wouldn't recommend starting off. pinchrunner, rouse up young men, and a few others. people really like, "a personal matter." not my favorite but still really well written/organized. the kind of book used in writing workshops to teach others how to write.

I really loved a healing family but it's not for everyone. I adore his son, hikari's music.


>>5928446
>He wanted to turn his life into a work of art.
>Beautiful hybrid of Aristotle and Nietzsche via Japanese samurai culture

no and no. he was delusional and overly romanticized all the strange sentiments people usually put aside for more down to earth ones as people grow up. one of the reasons (admittedly not the only reason) he offed himself was because he wanted to be immortalized with a young face instead of growing old and wrinkly. that's a fact.

I think one thing that forced oe to keep his feet on the ground was his handicapped son. had mishima had a son like that to deal with I imagine he would've came up with "artistic" excuses to not be a part of that reality.

>>5931615
>6'3
>135lbs

lel typical DYEL

>>5928446
>He made himself into a Temple and then destroyed it.
Nice comparison.

>want to read Temple of the Golden Pavilion
>some used bookstore I go to always has at least 10-15 of his books
>go to the building they're stored in and all the Mishima books are gone
It was really disappointing but at least I got to play with some cats while I was there.

>>5921741
damn

>>5931653
I think you scared them off anon, don't forget to tell mom what a great job you did posting from your middle school computer lab :^)

>>5922862
Was Patrick supposed to be a repressed homosexual?

>>5933194
Anon, it was written by Bret Easton Ellis. Of course he was. It's more obvious in the book than in the movie, but it's still there in both

>>5924195
The guy on the far right looks pretty fabulous

>>5921447
He personified conflict ion and personal disgust, which I'd say typically lead to great writing, even if it be dark.

>>5928372
Regardless of what was socially acceptable, he still found the idea of being attracted to men and not women to be repulsive. This is further clouded by his poor health, as he personally craved a masculine form that he would never achieve the way he wanted. Yes, he got better and worked out, but the sin is with the artificial nature that he attained it. He resented himself for being naturally weak.

>>5933210
I know Brett Easton Ellis is gay I don't think that necessarily means Patrick was supposed to be.

>>5933296
Every single protagonist BEE has ever written has been a very obvious stand in for himself. Bateman is no exception to this

>>5933365
But that doesn't necessarily Patrick was meant to be gay. Not trying to be an ass here though. Was his obsession with what everyone was wearing supposed to be a hint?

>>5933365
Give me a break.

American Psycho was satire.

>>5933391
It's peppered through the whole story. The guy gets off on watching himself fucking in the mirror. Look at his hatred of gays throughout the whole thing. It was pretty obvious to me at least.

>>5933395
Anon, BEE himself has said that American Psycho was about himself.

>>5933421
And he himself also stated he didn't even consider morality when it wrote it.

It's a satire of consumerism. I don't see how you could read it and not understand that.

>>5933428
Anon, Bateman's psychosis is an exaggerated projection of BEEs inner turmoil and existential loathing that he was feeling in his life at the time he wrote the book. It's a satire of himself and the mask he wears for society and what that did to his true self. It was meant to expose himself in relation to society, not to expose society itself. Yes, it was deconstructive of society, but that wasn't the main point

>>5933507
It doesn't matter if that was the main point. If his life was a satire of consumerism, so be it, it's still a satire. And I really don't care what was going on with Bret when he wrote it. Couldn't care less, actually.

>>5933516
Looking at the entire story as just a satire of consumerism is missing the point so hard. You have such a limited closed minded view of the ideas being expressed.

You can't honestly think that's all BEE was trying to say can you?

>>5928456
I wish they were just Reagan zombies. These days they are literally stormfront fascists.

lived with his hateful grandma. Father hated on his work. Mother loved him. His book Confessions of a Mask is well known to be his virtual autobiography (outside of Sun and Steel)

I love this guy, his work might be dry as hell but it's a nice look at Japanese culture without being a god damned weeaboo.

>>5933294
Maybe if he was a coal miner he'd thought that. His niche was pretty ok with being gay, and many of his fellow writers were gay or bi.

You should probably stop thinking that every place was like the US.

Jesus. Is "repressed gay" the new "bad childhood" in the mind of people who know nothing about psychology but think they can analyse people?

This thread has some jaw-dropping amount of dumb shit

>>5921491
Sadly the attempt was a disaster, the one in charge of the clean decapitation missed several times. The dude must have died in agony.

Read this book if you want a lot of detail. The essential biography.

>>5922577
lol my first Mishima novel, as recommended by my high school english teacher. Don't know that he even read it himself. That protagonist was a complete autist.

Aside from his famous 4 piece series, I am fond of After the Banquet.

the sweetest bit of irony in all this is that if he had his way, none of us would even know who Mishima was. He essentially wanted Japan to return to the isolationists they were before the world had an eye on them and America had a boot on their neck.

(and he would absolutely HATE weeaboos.)

>>5923690
he tried making his own, but that resulted in the weird "death is beautiful" shit that warped his mind.