/lit/ - Literature

>>5910601
The problem with Hitler is that he killed a lot of people just because of what they are.
Stalin is also a mass-murderer, but he killed people based on what they think. It's still morally reprehensible, but less "dangerous" for humanity.

>>5910601
yes, they were

one just follows a humorous, satiric type; a failed artist with mental problems that seized the opportunity

the other is the devil reincarnated. truly the most evil man in history

>>5910601
I don't agree with the premise of your question nor do I see the connection between it and the statement.

>>5910615
>implying many times more people killed because they used articulated speech is less harmful to humanity

It's okay, I didn't need my sides anyway. Not agreeing with OP but you sure are an idiot

>>5910623
I think what anon was trying to point out is that the way Stalin targeted victims at least wasn't irrational

>>5910628
How the fuck do you figure?

Classical Leftist remark about this:

Well when our radicals kill people they just do it because they had the wrong ideas.
Somehow that makes them less dead.

B-but the kulaks deserved it
B-but the famines weren't his fault
B-but WWII

>people will never stop repeating the Stalin was the same as Hitler meme
>people will never accept that he took millions of people out of poverty by improving infrastructure and saved millions of lives by improving healthcare while also massively improving the literacy rate
>people in western Europe will never accept that the owe their freedom to Stalin's leadership and if it wasn't for him we'd all be speaking kraut now

>implying I hate the only man in history to consciously and successfully create a Volksgemeinschaft from a divided nation
>implying his misdeeds detract from his admirable qualities, as if Caesar is less admirable because he butchered Gauls

>>5910615
>less dangerous for humanity
>>5910628
the way Stalin targeted victims at least wasn't irrational

what the fuck? I'm not pro hitler, but at least his attacks were specific and artificial. attacking ideas could lead, and did, to paranoid schizophrenia where the perceived threat could be anyone or anywhere.

>>5910641
>Implying German hegemony wouldn't be effectively the same as Soviet hegemony

>>5910615
>>5910628

You do realize that this is how most people in history were killed, right? Because their ideas conflicted with those of the greater whole?

>>5910641
Russians are literally subhuman, m8. Anyone who doesn't know this basically reveals their complete ignorance of history. Russian imperialism is the least desirable thing possible because it basically means being owned by a retarded ape.

Congress Poland? Russification, radicalisation as a dumping ground for Russia's Jews, and brutal repressions.

Austrian Poland/Ruthenia? Economic development, permitted fostering and flourishing of national identities.

Evil scary Prussian Duchy of Poland? Doctrine of Organic Work, cultural flourishing.

>>5910658
Almost as if it's a natural part of political evolution and not the shocking tragedy anti-soviet propagandists present it as.

>>5910662
What's wrong with a country full of Jews, Anon? Are you antisemitic?

>>5910601
Stalin was less aggressively expansionist, and won the war.

Hitler seems more fucked up because he was the first to actually consider and execute a genocide of an entire group because of their congenital qualities.

So it's novel indeed. Communism is much more old skool: we'll kill you 'cause you don't approve of the king/code.
But in any case, it's as fucked as anything else.

>>5910671
>What's wrong with a country full of Jews, Anon?

>>5910662
>Russia produces the best novelists, directors and composers of the twentieth century and almost single-handedly wins the greatest war in human history
>r-russians are subhuman

cry harder kraut lover

im feeling second hand embarrassment from that view of history

>>5910663
You honestly think it's okay to kill people for what they think? Should you be killed because you like Stalin and your beliefs go against the beliefs of the majority of the world?

>>5910641
>People will never stop eating Orwell's shit
>People will never stop eating Solzhenitsyn's shit
>People will never stop eating western propaganda in general
>People will never study History
>People will never know the true about Stalin and the USSR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5MncFvayg8

Slava!

>>5910687
As far as reasons for getting killed go, if you have to chose between "disagreeing with the killer" and "having a large nose/butthole"...

>>5910671
Do you know what happened to Congress Jews?

There's nothing wrong with Jews but dumping all of your fucking radicals in someone else's country is cruel and not good for anyone. They turned the fairly segregated but also fairly docile Jewish population of Poland into a timebomb that went off several times. The most radical, racist, supremacist, and violent forms of Zionism all came out of it.

>>5910681
>this is what deluded Mongols actually believe

Is the yoke chafing that badly? Sorry Stalin finally drove off the few European aristocrats that the tsars didn't.

>>5910662
>Poland

Lol. There's always a Pole crying and bitching about Russia. Grow up, loser!

>>5910687
>You honestly think it's okay to kill people for what they think

I don't think it's okay that children die from terrible diseases, I don't think it's okay that people die in natural disasters, it's just something that happens, and at times of political upheaval people kill their political opponents.

the "moderate" liberal democracies of the west are built on a mountain of corpses, how was what Stalin did any different from what Oliver Cromwell did?

>>5910693
Stalin tried to purge every single intellectual, professional, property owner, and remotely notable person as he conquered their countries in WW2. He wanted to rule over a nation of semi-intelligent slaves.

It's not just an issue of Stalinist self-criticism or avoiding political purges. He tried to create an empire of retards to rule over, to go with his nation of Russian retards.

>>5910700
RIDF pls

>>5910601
Thats not Hitler

>>5910722
>as he liberated their countries in WW2

FTFY

>>5910722
>Stalin tried to purge every single intellectual
Looooooooooool.

Nice story, but needs more millions of deaths.

>>5910729

Are Montefiores biographies of Stalin good?

>>5910615
didn't he also kill a bunch of jews or other ethnicities?

>>5910744
>The Soviet government annexed the territory under its control and in November 1939 made the 13.5 million formerly Polish citizens now under its control citizens of the Soviet Union.

>The Soviets quelled opposition through summary executions and thousands of arrests.[19][20] The Soviet Union sent hundreds of thousands of people from this region to Siberia and other remote parts of the Soviet Union in four major waves of deportation between 1939 and 1941.[Note 6]
>The exact number of people deported between 1939–1941 remains unknown. Estimates vary between 350,000 and more than 1.5 million; Rummel estimates the number at 1.2 million and Kushner and Knox 1.5 million.[21][22]

>13.5 million
>between 350,000 and more than 1.5 million;

Way to govern a country, asiatic.

>>5910804
How is that evidence for him "purging every single intellectual"

>>5910757
Young Stalin was quite enjoyable, great for general context

>>5910641
They will never accepted that he actually killed less people than Hitler despite ruling a much larger amount of people in a much more chaotic scenario (that is, hijacking a developed democracy after elections and a pseudo-feudal monarchy after a civil war are bound to result in different levels of oppression, yet Hitler outdid Stalin) that Hitler's political philosophy unlike Stalin's is inherently murderous, and that Stalin was admired by almost every political leader, from Roosevelt to Hitler himself.

Stalin was a fascist just like Hitler and Mussolini. Marxists reaised that, Mussolini and Hitler realised that (with Mussolini himself admiting it, and calling Stalin's government not bolshevik but "slavic fascism") and most serious political theorists realise that. The difference is that unlike Hitler and Mussolini, Stalin was competent.

Stalinism apologists are hilarious.

>There's no evidence for this! Here's a document from a Stalinist propaganda agency proving such.
>You're just buying into capitalist lies. I, on the other hand, am enlightened by the non-biased documents and books produced in the Soviet Union.
>So what if Stalin killed millions of people? Capitalism kills people too.

>>5910835
>Liberals think this is a good way of arguing against the USSR

>>5910835
>Stalinist propaganda
Academic literature isn't "Stalinist propaganda" despite what Reason and the Mises Institute tell you. You seems to have got things wrong, the HURR 60 MILLION WORSE THAN HITLER crowd base their understanding in pop literature like Conquest's. Their position is far, far away from academic consensus.

>books produced in the Soviet Union.
Name one soviet propagandist we've quoted

>So what if Stalin killed millions of people? Capitalism kills people too.
Completely valid argument. Both the capitalism contemporary to his government and the foundations of it. Or are you unaware that in undoing the institutions Imperial Russia possessed at the time of the Bolshevik revolution a lot of blood was also shed in western europe?

I was going to address your image but I think deep down you're aware it's not a very clever one.

>>5910844
>there are people on this planet who argue in favor of the USSR at all

>>5910641
I would like quality reading material in regards to the point brought up in this post. Anyone please help.

Is /pol/ still so triggered from its rape that it doesn't know Hitler had good rhetorical form, and piss poor prose and plot, not the other way around?

These illiterates mentioning Mussolini when d'Annunzio's prose is the most beautiful of the fascist era, /pol/ must be in some deep form of psychosis after the whole site made it our girlfriend. D-do you want us to find you some Joyce to match your incoherent babble, or like run you a bath or something?

>>5910848
>Academic literature isn't "Stalinist propaganda" despite what Reason and the Mises Institute tell you. You seems to have got things wrong, the HURR 60 MILLION WORSE THAN HITLER crowd base their understanding in pop literature like Conquest's. Their position is far, far away from academic consensus.
Why do you act as if everyone who doesn't suck Stalinist cock is a fan of Robert Conquest? His work hasn't been taken seriously in the last 50 years and there are hundreds of much more respected historians that could be cited. But Stalinists will degrade them as pro-capitalist and thus incapable of sound historical judgement.

>Name one soviet propagandist we've quoted
Pretty much any time a Stalinist has to point to something positive about the USSR he'll either bring up a Soviet propaganda document or make some ridiculous excuse about how totalitarianism was justified.

>Completely valid argument. Both the capitalism contemporary to his government and the foundations of it. Or are you unaware that in undoing the institutions Imperial Russia possessed at the time of the Bolshevik revolution a lot of blood was also shed in western europe?
Sure, people can be killed on a mass scale in capitalism. But capitalism as a system doesn't result in the number of deaths caused under Stalinism and Maoism, which were clear results of the state ideology rather than purely the material factors of those countries. Tell me about the time when millions of English workers died during the Industrial Revolution, oh wait, you can't, because it never happened. Communism is a bankrupt ideology that has never worked and never will.

The Hitler = Stalin meme is silly beyond words, the proper comparison should be Stalin and Mussolini.

Both of them started as dedicated Marxists but somewhere down the line decided to Cypher their way to the top using the understandings of culture, history and society that marxism provided them.

Just like Bonaparte came from the enlightenment yet ruled a backwards empire, Mussolini and Stalin were tired of playing agents of History and settled for power instead. Nazism is a completely different beast.

>>5910876
>But capitalism as a system doesn't result in the number of deaths caused under Stalinism and Maoism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

>>5910886
stalin wasn't some power hungry dictator who hated marxism. he was a materialist and built socialism to the degree that he could in the circumstances, and to that measure (building socialism in one country), he was pretty damn successful.

of course, I'm not a stalinist, his regime was bloody and awful and inhumane but to claim that he was not a marxist and was just a power hungry dictator is just a total misreading of history

>>5910904
>stalin wasn't some power hungry dictator who hated marxism.
All marxists of his time, even Lenin and Trotsky and most Bolsheviks themselves, considered Russia to be far too backwards to be used as a platform for Socialism. They argued for a liberal-bourgeois revolution, yet Stalin comes up with that ahistorical aberration that doesn't allow private property but isn't interested in collective ownership either. Why should I consider this an example of a "marxist" design? I think he was indeed marxist in his analysis, but not in his political ambitions. Just look at his nationalism, his conservatism, his militarism. He was a proto-fascist in nearly every sense.

For some reason people like you seem to equal the absence of capitalism with socialism. Did you know the first theories of centralized, planned economies built upon the nationalization of industries weren't even developed by socialists? They were developed by people who wanted to make sure capitalist economies could continue to run at maximum efficiency during times of war. There's nothing socialistic about it. And sure, he improve the welfare of the citizens, but so did liberal economies with a strong welfare structure.

>>5910681

Don't forget the majority of chess Grandmasters are Russian.

>>5910770
yes, stalin also engauged in ethic mass killing.

I dislike the policy of moral equivalence. Yet trying to make stilin ''less'' evil than hitler is also disgusting