/lit/ - Literature

You can start by licking dog shit off your own shoe. Fuck Bukowski.

>>5880729
Ham on rye or Post Office

Ham on Rye starts strong and finishes badly. There are some major problems with the narrative and characterization. I’d say Post Office. Try that and see what you think.

>>5880729
Here you go. Knock youself out!

>>5881394

cringe-worthy

>>5881394
>I promise not to be overly intoxicated at the reading.

Jesus Christ, what a fucking douche.

>>5881394
Such a fucking asshole who nearly singlehandedly defaced modern poetry. >>5880729
My recommendation would be
>>>/tumblr.com/

>>5881394
>bragging about writing a book in 20 days

Or maybe he's using that as an explanation for how terrible it is?

>>5881748
Or it is neither a brag nor a confession.

>>5881280
>major problems with the characterization
I thought that had to do with the semi-autobiographical nature of the novel

This really should be pinned.

>>5881765
>tripping only for one, recurrent topic
>tripping at all
>being this pathetic

>>5881660
Yeah, no. One man didn't ruin it. The dozens of people trying his style did. Thank social media for ruining poetry.

And OP, try maybe his Hot Water Music short stories. Then Ham on Rye, then Post Office.

>>5881784
I trip for reasons I've stated before, I don't trip otherwise. Take it easy and don't get so bent out of shape over tripfags. (Or, if you're just asspain'd from me in the past because of Bukowski, then I suggest going and get some ointment for the pain. Your hero still is a bad writer.)

>>5881822
>tripfags can't drop their trip to samefag
hurr

>>5881822
That picture is funny but you did take the time to make it which is quite sad
>says the guy writing trips in everyone of his posts to reduce them back to anonymity

>>5881841
I didn't say they couldn't. I don't and I don't need to. Plenty of people think logically and know that Bukowski is a bad writer.

>>5881863
You might think that's why you're doing it, but it really isn't :)

>>5880729

Pick two novels, Ham on Rye or Post-Office being one of them.

Then, to cover the poetry,

The Roominghouse Madrigals. Early Selected Poems, 1946-1966 and
Burning in Water Drowning in Flame: Selected Poems 1955-1973

Also read Adam Kirsch's piece on him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bukowski#cite_note-7

Finish by reading Hunger by Knut Hamson, as recommended by Kirsch, and Down and Out in Paris in London by Orwell to see what he lacks as a writer.

>>5881863
It didn't, I specifically remember about how long this one took because for whatever reason people always say "you spent time on that/that sad you actually spent time on that" to that one specifically.

It was less than twenty five minutes. It's just a paint job, clearly.

>>5881887
why do you reply to yourself? please clarify this

>>5881784
Bukowski is a lazy writer and easily imitated which is why so many people flock to social media with his style. Its tasteless boring smut but has edgy style. It could have been written by any fucking wino who fucked circus rejects

People love to hate him just because other people do. If you had no idea who he was and sat down and read his poetry you might not like it but as soon as you learn other peoples opinion of him you say "Fuck Bukowski" and go into a rage throwing shit everywhere

Don't.

>>5881822
>implying he's my hero

Good stab in the dark there.

>>5882441
Are you fucking stupid? This is the reason people like him. Were you to sit down and read him you may not think much of it but once you see people adore him, cute hipster girls want to fuck him, and graphic artists make shitty word art of him you'll present your mouth for fucking.

>>5882469
So are you saying you fall into the ass-pain'd camp then?

>>5880729
Pulp

his last book

I think he'd like it better that way

it's also his best

then any of his poetry collections will do

>>5882629
Do you have a favorite poem of his?

(Not trying instigate shit; curious to see if I missed a really good one)

>>5882537
Well it works both ways. I just don't understand how people get so worked up over him.

>>5882648
Bluebird....first one that comes to mind.

voices

some people

yes yes

love

the intellectual

woman

sway with me

>>5882663
Try going outside and attempting to have a life with real human beings.
Get a job that sucks.

Do things you hate because it's the only time you can do them and you can only do them because they're bad.

In other words, you should have spent more time doing shit and being scared while in high school (or college if you actually went) instead of hiding.

People without real world experiences tend to miss Bukowski because Bukowski is about that dirty, authentic, below average beat down psyche do to excess of all that shouldn't be consumed.

Have a life, make mistakes, be afraid, do bad.

Then read Bukowski.

But don't do that shit because you think it's cool or some stupid shit, do it because it's what you have to do.

>>5882621
Is your purpose for existing solely so I can hate you? Or do you honestly waste time making screenshots of yourself "one-upping" anons like sort of trophy.

>>5882669
Yeah, I've heard most of them already.

>>5882689
This isn't really true, and is insulting to the working class higher thinker. The more die hard Bukowski fans I know personally haven't worked a labor job. They are middle to upper-middle class. The other person I've met that didn't like Bukowski was a guy I met working with me a bit ago as a grill cook. He also saw him as simple, over gloried crap. This guy didn't have much money at all, couldn't go to college out of high school and on (I can't speak on that at this point and time, I haven't seen him in a while). I've worked manual labor before, and look at how I view Bukowski.

The idea that "Oh people don't get him because they are in their mansion and don't understand the life" is total bullshit and is piss-poor apologetics to defend bad writing.

>>5880729
Random book.

>>5882791
>I'm still wrong, but here is why I'm right because confirmation bias

Bukowski is top fun and mostly hated by people who take themselves too seriously and can't drink.

I recommend starting with Post Office (his first novel) or Ham on Rye (about the first part of his life).

>>5882791
>I've worked manual labor before
Waiting tables isn't manual labor, miss.

>mfw americans actually think this guy is a good writer

Reminder that the tripfag Bullkowsk is so mad about Bukowski that she saves screencaps of herself being mad about Bukowski because her mother had sexual relations with Bukowski in the 1970's

>>5881394
What a fucking faggot.

>>5882857
Reminder that the only people reading bukowski are edgy high schoolers who mistake drunk ramblings for real life prophecy and make complete non sequitur arguments against his critics

>>5882874
Bukowski is just a funny guy who knows the lumpenprole life and tells stories about it. I don't see why people get so mad about this.

I always get the idea that people who hate Bukowski take him much more seriously than those who like him.

>>5882829
I'm wrong about what? The people whom I know have read Bukowski or that I know it's bullshit that you have to live a certain way to get Bukowski?

>>5882850
I was a grill cook with the guy at the time.

>>5882857
I guess I'll keep this going, pic related for you.

>>5882874
>caring about dumb things teens do
>not accepting that we've all done dumb things and moving on

>>5882921
>grill cook

Try real manual labour, miss.

>>5882731
A confirmed asspain'd buttkowski then. Another one bites the dust.

and just when yout think that Paradise hit the absolute low...

>>5880729
rummaging in the trash bin

>tfw Bullkowski is too dumb to read Céline, Miller and other assorted authors who make feminists angry so she will never be able to start a campaign against them

>>5882731
Here you are. You deserve this award. Pic Related. You're welcome, and welcome to the club.

>>5882937
Let me know what job is real manual labor so I can try it out then.

>>5882976
>manual labor

There's a handjob thread currently on /gif.

You could start there.

>>5882976
POST PICS OF TITS

>>5882976
>Let me know what job is real manual labor so I can try it out then.
Things that actually involve strenous physical activity. Fields and warehouses, that type of shit. If it doesn't ruin your back it's not manual labour.

You should also remember that in Bukowski's time things were even worse as far as working conditions and pay go.

>>5882937

grill cook is tough as fuck man, as is washing dishes. i'd rather haul ass over a construction site all day then stand over a hot grill/sink with that same awful standing position that hangs your head slightly down no matter what you do. these jobs will turn you into a hunchback in 10 years. you might come out of construction with some gnarly injuries but you could also come out alright.

I'm a huge bukowski fan. the guy who said people who really hate bukowski because they've 1) never really had similar experiences and 2) cant drink was spot on. I can see not liking him because the prose is sparse and his topic is mostly the same, or you just find his writing kind of banal. the reason i like him is his honesty, lack of pretension, good stories and his bare-bones prose.

people who really hate bukowski, like people who hate any author with a burning passion, are simply meme humans. they should be despised ignored completely online, as you would despise and ignore them in real life. this is also how you should treat tripfags

apart from his poetry and his short stories it's not like he has a huge bibliography of novels. try pot office or women first. also dip into south of no north to see what he does with short stories.

>>5882940
But I've never even read Bukowski...

>>5882966
I actually enjoyed Journey to the End of the Night when I read it a while back.

I'm not a feminist so I don't know why I'd start a campaign against them.

I like him because of his unintented humor. Also, he has something rampant on his point of view about life. Though, I've only read South of no North. Some of the stories there a just boring, but the one of the man that works in that thing piling meat is great.

Start with "Ham on Rye."

>>5882925
I rarely acknowledge arguments against me as actually defeating a claim without a retort but this is actually sound. I guess that they will grow out of it.

>>5883027
Never did field work, I'd agree that would be a labor intensive job. Probably not going to ever do fieldwork for a living because I could work at McDonalds for more money then I could fieldworking.

"Warehouse" is a bit vague. My uncle use to put boxes on pallets. He never really complained that it was too intense labor, but he was also a fairly big guy. I guess if you're 120 pounds wet and wearing boots you've got problems. I also worked weekends with a guy that use to do the forklift at a warehouse. Easy good money were his words.

I don't know how those two discredit being a cook from being a manual labor job. Just because field work involves you bent all day in the sun? It's like saying "Working outdoor construction in upper Ohio in the winter isn't a cold job because you don't have your face frozen like you would if you were on a commerical crab boat in Alaska." There are plenty of cooks and chefs with back problems due to the job.

"You should also remember that in Bukowski's time things were even worse as far as working conditions and pay go."

And that has what to do with how good his actual writing is?

Why are you discussing the fact that for enjoying a book you must need some kind of experience? Sometimes you a read a book for the whole opposite. You don't need to be straining your ass all day on a shitty work in order to understan him. Come on, you're just deranging all the purpose on this.

>>5881916
This reminds me of the Seinfeld where George tries to catch the mechanic who stole his Twix at the car dealership, and he sets up the trick candy lineup, and he says "I SPENT AN HOUR PUTTING TOGETHER THIS CANDY LINEUP...," and someone's like, "It took you an hour?"

>>5882835
>>5882884
This and this.
>>5883049
Mother of God. Fucking this.
>>5883197
Why are you trying to make this thread about you and what you think? Why do you spend time making ms paint screenshots of you talking shit to strangers on 4chan? Why are you allowed to exist? Eh, whatever, I don't care.

>>5883478
That was a good episode.

>>5883497
I'm not. I could have posted my one thing and that would have been that. Besides my initial post, I've posted to replies only. Hell, you not only complain I'm making about myself, but in the same sentence you keep it going by asking me a question.

I usually make the pictures to show the redundancies and crappy apologetics of Buttkowski arguments. A few have now been made for pure entertainment now to grind gears.

"Why are you allowed to exist" Pic Related.

"Eh, whatever, I don't care." Then there's a backspace on your keyboard. Don't reply to me. If you didn't care you wouldn't have posted to me.

I also see you ass-kissed some of the "Bukowski is good, and people who don't like him are X". Glad to see you're totally unbiased and neutral person whose comments I should actually deeply consider as non-asspain'd filled remarks. Since you're a buttkowski, this might not have gotten through to you, that last part is sarcasm.

>>5880729
i started with ham on rye. helps you get an understanding of what he's about and where he is from. i love him because he gives a common persons opinion. he is irrational at times but always honest.

>>5881394
why is everyone hating this?

>>5880729
pretty much everywhere mate, is the same story over and over.. he's drunk+he's fucking a jung girl+he's flying somewhere for a conference

>>5884538
Because they thinking writing is Serious Business and he's making a mockery of their precious high arts.

>>5884538
Its now cool to hate Bukowski

>>5882689
This is why I like Posted Office. I read it while going through a divorce and struggling through a job I hate just to survive.

>>5882791
>This isn't really true, and is insulting to the working class higher thinker
Holy Vladimir! "the working lass higher thinker"


Fucking quote of the day

I work manual labor and would never want to fucking read about it when I'm off work. Or read about drinking or whatever.

Most people who glorify Bukowski are not blue collar in the slightest - they're upper class never-worked fags on a gay field trip to prole land. Why do you think he's so popular with college students?

I've read Ham On Rye and Post Office and thought some parts were funny, but overall not anything amazing. His poetry seems completely worthless.

Some of the comments here about having to live in that world to truly appreciate him are a laugh. It's the exact opposite. As this dude said:
>>5885557
you don't generally want to read about your shitty job after you've been there.

To expand further however, there are times where you might read someone from your own walk of life, but for that to be justified the writer needs to be particularly genius or funny, someone who can give you an insight or a picture of your own world that you'd never have had, and Bukowski was simply not that clever.

In many ways, he's similar to the WW1 poets. Back home, sheltered people could get off on it because it allows them (the poets being, at heart, like them) to vicariously experience the darker side of the world. If you're actually down on the line, those dudes aren't the wise guys cracking jokes left and right, they're the idiots who can't handle their shit.

I still think he's interesting as a case study of someone thrown into and trying to survive an environment at conflict with their nature, but not enough to warrant reading more than 1 or 2 of his books.