/lit/ - Literature

Cuba has pretty good healthcare, Castro actually used a lot of Soviet funding to pay for it. Still the economy is shit, but partially because the U.S. is embargoing Cuba, meaning Cuba's biggest production, tourism and cigars, lost their major market. But even without the embargo, Cuba wouldn't really be a paradise, more like a less munificent Sweden with less free speech

Guevara's major racial comments were written before he got into politics. He was pretty murderous, though, killed a lot of people without a trial, but not for petty shit, but for being connected with the previous regime and the mafia. He genuinely cared about the people, he wasn't like say, Stalin, but he was an incompetent administrator and his communist economic policies didn't work well at all.

>>5871094
>with less free speech
To temper this, it should be noted that pressure from the U.S. and they're numerous attempts to set up a coup, assassinate Castro, and even launch an invasion have fomented the living shit out of political paranoia. It probably would be a lot less of an issue if we normalized relations.

>>5871066
not sure if their health-care is 'fantastic' and how modern their culture is but socialist soviet-type countries usually had free/cheap health-care (yes, it means that doctors don't have high salaries, but their education is free too, also it means that you possibly should wait before you can get an appointment, and, if the country allows, you may pay for a better service/better drugs or other things, but that's rather post-soviet) and the basic goods cost cheap (but not basic ones were expensive and also the price isn't the only way to regulate the availability, some of those cheap goods might be in short supply with artificially fixed price). anyway, if you are fond of free/cheap health-care you better pay attention to the socialism of the western european kind

>>5871066
Cuba is nice, been there once, very service oriented country so ppl act nice to tourists like me

Met a rather articulate Cuban once, who had to leave the country for reasons that escape me right now, but he only had good things to say about the Castro regime which kinda surprised me actually

But overall, the place had an aura of latin misery, the kind that seems to breed a sort of kinship between people stuck in the same situation, since there's so little to go around, people share and act decent to one another. Wayyyyyy different than where I'm living right now (good ol us of a). Idk how the place would be if the embargo were lifted, but I doubt things would improve too much

I did happen to read an article on I think the NYT on Cuban intellectuals and how they never quite at ease seeing as how they could be labeled as dissidents and punished, but the article made a big deal out of how afraid they were but never explicitly stated what would happen to them. Not sure whether to believe in that case

>>5871104
Cuba was always very coup-ish. When Castro seized power that was his second attempt at violently overthrowing the government.

>>5871066
>Was he the revolutionary hero that tacky and ironically mass produced t-shirts proclaim him to be, or is he the blood-thirsty psychopath that dodgy-looking politically conservative websites claim?
why not both?

>>5871066
>Recently I hear that Cuba has fantastic health-care even though the Doctors are paid modestly, reasonably priced everything and a pretty modern looking culture.

This is the only good thing about Cuba, appart from no analphabetism. Thankfully, Castro kicked out all the criminals and druglords (mostly us-americans, and they fled to Texas and made Las Vegas).

Still is a really shitty country since there's no freedom. Also, not only there's no freedom, many cubans live like shit since there's a lot of corrupts mainly in the state markets.

I always remember what my uncle (not cuban) told me. He went to Cuba since he was friend of many politics there. They ate pheasant which is extremely expensive. It's commonly said in all latin america that Castro sent Guevara to a suicide mission without telling that to him.

Castro was a tyrant and seems he got tired of it. I remember that he once said that he was tired of all the communist stuff and then he said "I was wrong". The political class there (similar to the nomenklatura in the USSR) profited from the communist government so they told him not to say that, apparently.

So you should read:
Havanne Nocturne. Explains how the Castro regime expelled the mob from Cuba.
Fide Castro by Jules Dubois.
Cuba Confidential

All these books have a positive view on Castro, his revolution and his regime excluding the now Raul Castro's government.

Cuba's health-care was something to note when Cuba was funded by the Soviets to be an advertising of the "communist success". (Compared with Latin America and other third world countries)

After URSS fall, the funding was gone, but at least it left some infrastructure and trained professionals.

>>5871186
>I remember that he once said that he was tired of all the communist stuff and then he said "I was wrong"
Dude, are you sure you know what you're talking about? This seems highly apocryphal, even if Castro thought this, it's not likely he'd say it publicly.

>>5871094
>He genuinely cared about the people
>Murdered tons of people for just for treachery and even killed a boy for trying to prevent his father's death
Che Guevara was a bloody thirsty psychopath read his documentaries or about his secret police

>>5871186
Now about Che Guevara.

He was more idealistic than Fidel and he acutally fought in the guerrillas all his life, unlike Castro. You should now that he is looked as a hero in almost all latin american countries except by the right-wing, who hate him just because he was leftist.
>or is he the blood-thirsty psychopath that dodgy-looking politically conservative websites claim?

He did make a lot of books about gorilla warfare, fought in guerrillas and killed some dudes. There's a battle and a place where he was called "El Carnicero" (the butcher), although I remember reading that he was called like that not because he was some genocidal torture-loving faggot. So far I haven'r read actual proof that he was a crazy revolutionaire similar to Robespierre.

>>5871212
Well, I watched it in the news when I was young. I'm not quite sure it was true. I'll do my own research right now.

Cuba ranks favorably on human development metrics compared to many more capitalist, US-friendly nations.

Even though my uncle fled the Soviet Union, he goes to Cuba every summer, so there's that.

>>5871186
>This is the only good thing about Cuba

Let me disagree.

Pic related, this a good symptom.

>>5871236
Cuba survives on tourism and donations.

>>5871214
The man literally wrote "I'd like to confess, Papa, at that moment I discovered that I really liked killing. After executing a tour guide for treason without a trial regardless of political orientation it's fairly well documented that Che is edgier than your average btard

>>5871240
I don't speak mexican boy

>>5871240
I forgot about the sports. They are bretty good too.

Cuba would be better if the USA wouldn't be bullying them. Poor cubans are affected more than the "evil commies" USA swears to destroy.

>>5871245
Olympic medals, cuba holds 72 golds, brasil only 23.

And brasil population is 20 times bigger.

>>5871244
from what book is that? I no longer believe quotes about controversial figures since those are usually taken out of context or are just lies.
Note: I'm not trying to defend the man, I just want facts.

>>5871249
>USA wouldn't be bullying them
Cuba has the rest of the world to do business.

>>5871261
His personal dairies you could probably find a manuscript given his fame

>>5871249
The sports is the symptom.

It meas they have a culture around other things, with other values. And in order to produce good sports men you need a healthy and well feed population. (the nutrition in the first years of the child is very important.)

>>5871244
>"I'd like to confess, Papa, at that moment I discovered that I really liked killing
Pretty sure they train U.S. Marines to enjoy it too.

I don't think the guy was a psychopath, whatever else he was.

>>5871268
Yeah, the rest of the countries will do business with Cuba despites what USA says about it.
Protip: USA has a lot of power and doesn't let other countries do shit without murrika's approval.

>>5871268
Dont you know what an embargo is about?

Also Haiti had a similar embargo for many many years. No wonder why the country is so fucked up.

If you guys want, you can ask me questions. I left Cuba when I was 7, 11 years ago.

>>5871268
For tourism? The U.S. is naturally their most abundant source. The U.S. is also the number one buyer of cigars by a significant margin.

>>5871274
Is that quote there? Have you read his personal diaries?
I have searched that quote and all I get are stupid websites saying "OMG EL CHE WAS A LIBERAL COMMIE MURDERER".
>>5871288
I've met like 20 cubans claiming that. Not sure if I would trust some guy in a manchurian cartoons imageboard.

Cuba for a Latin American country with the most powerful nation in the world against it is doing pretty fine and dandy.

>>5871297
Well I could show you my birth certificate, time stamped? I don't know why anyone would lie about that

>>5871286
>Also Haiti had a similar embargo for many many years. No wonder why the country is so fucked up.
Well, they also went into massive poverty from paying back France the cost of all the slaves.

>>5871274
Ha, I'm the guy you posted that to initially, and when I looked it up it said "from a latter to his father".

So yeah, I'm thinking the quote is bullshit if the sites that use it can't even make up their mind where they got it from.

>>5871280
>the rest of the countries will do business with Cuba despites what USA says about it.
The rest of the countries IS doing business with Cuba despites what USA says about it.

>>5871286
No trade between Murica and Cuba, not between Cuba and the rest of the world.

Cuba just has nothing to offer to trade beyond their cigars and male prostitutes.

>>5871279
He has tons of edgy writings, he executed a bunch of people without a trial, the man shot a kid for trying to stop his father's execution. What do you have to do around here to be a psychopath, write the Fountain Head? Also I wouldn't argue for Guevara being a balanced individual with a Marine as a example not the best frame of reference.

>>5871308
If you can then yes.
>>5871320
>The rest of the countries IS doing business with Cuba despites what USA says about it.
Really? Do you have a source of that? I haven't read about Cuba since 2005 so I'm my information on Cuba isn't updated.

>>5871319
His dairy has him shooting the tour guide idk about the quote but I was saying the dairy is where he directly talks about the murder

>>5871327
>so I'm my information
I fucked up my keyboard.

>>5871319
>>5871335
Or you could look up the time he spent as a executioner for Fidel Castro on La Cabana

>>5871327
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/51838/pamela-s-falk/eyes-on-cuba-us-business-and-the-embargo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada–Cuba_relations

>>5871348
Well, it's says many countries invest in Cuba, so it's fine. I didn't know about that.

When people say that Cuba is a beautiful country are you taking to account other places besides the tourisy Havana? My dads from Santa Clara which had amazingly diverse architecture but has really fallen to decay in recent years

>>5871066
If you would like an insight into Che personally I would recommend his book about guerrilla warfare, he speaks about many things in it and it's a good read

>>5871340
La Cabana was divided between a military prison and a civilian prison. ONLY the military prison, full of members of Batista's military, carried a possible death penalty. You are full of shit.

Read "Quotations from Chairman Mao." Most people on this thread have some basic idea, but again, they're giving in to unsourced American propaganda. I'd suggest the audio lectures of George Breitman.

>>5871066
>Tell me what to think about Che
quit asking us and do some research yourself. you might start with his motorcycle diaries.

>>5872094
>start with che propaganda
Or just read a fucking biography and you'll se he was a fucking retard

>>5871066

>Fantastic Health care
Yeah well, except people dont have meds or equipment they public health system sure is great

>pretty modern looking culture
have you ever looked at cuba besides havana? is a fucking mess, it looks like the whole island is just a giant brazilian favela

>Was che a revolotionary hero or just a psycopath
i dont know why he cant be both, he sure is a revolutionary and is held as a hero by some people with some sick twisted values, but also, he was a fucking psycopath

>Government lived in luxury
u dont need to flex this to past, government still lives like kings, havent you seen that old pic of Fidel with 2 Rolexeses and the Adidas hoodie?

>>5872095
>Or just read che propaganda
good one

>>5872095
>read a fucking biography and you'll se he was a fucking retard

A biography written by American capitalists? Hm...so it's propaganda when it's written by the man himself about his experiences and beliefs but it's not propaganda when some right wing idiot tells me how "evil" Che was? Most of these lies aren't even properly sourced.

to the people saying "che was a fucking psychopath": in what sense? (how so?)

please, share your knowledge

>>5872110
Your dumb, seriously, since when biographies have the author's take in whats right and whats wrong? they merely state with facts and numbers what someone did, its up to you to decide if it was right or wrong

>>5872111
He liked to kill a lot of people for shitty reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE1IQaJb_Zc
As peaceful as Hamas

>>5872110
>I don't really know what historiography is or how it "works"
This will surprise, nay, it will shock you. You can disagree with the political statements of another person and still write accurate biographical statements about them.

murricans cant into propaganda using clasy music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcPm5Rn36Kw

>>5872226
>BVSC
>Classy
Its shit tier latin jazz, everyone knows that, go listen to some Ondatrópica or bossa nova if u want good latin jazz

>>5872136
fuck off already troll

>>5871213
>just for treachery
lol

>>5871321
>what do you have to do around here to be a psychopath, write the Fountain Head?


You fucking dick.

>>5871066

Cuba produce Cuban cigars.

If you consider luxury produce, you have alcohols, which are goods in every countries, you have wine, and again every country can produce good wine, top wine, whatever, you have truffles, then again, worldspread, you have caviar (not a single idea how it tastes), chocolate is better processed in switzerland, but that is mainly because of the rich people hidding their money there and bringing back some funny stuff... etc etc...

Every luxury good is worldwide spread.

But the cigars.

Nothing tastes like a cuban cigar but another cuban cigar, you can blindtest them (dunno if you can really tell the difference between two close tasting cuban brands, but at least it is not like wines, where an expensice french wine will taste as good as a cheap one in which you add the proper kind of sugar).

Cuban cigar is perfection on earth, even top model don't even come close to that.

So cubans can produce something unique with top quality every time you buy one, it is like space industry quality but for poor people, anything you read bad about them is propaganda.

For the politics, they have independance, which is an achievement for poor people close to US ubberpower, they have a political police but every country has one, so...

>>5871186
Pendejo callate no sabes de que hablas

>>5872474

Just to add : cuban cigars are so good there is no embargo possible on them.

They go through every custom guard simply by removing the paper work (bague, dunno the english word). If the seller feels like, he can even put another brand's paperwork on them, but it is absolutely unnecessary.

Cuban bague are send with the cigars but apart, not on the cigar itself.

Cuba is of no strategic importance anymore, mainly because freedom won worldwide, I guess the last reason for the embargo is other countries cigar industries lobbies.

Because, it must be said again and again, nothing in the world come close to the perfection of a cuban cigar.

The perfection of cuban cigar is the first thing to consider, then you understand how cubans got all the medal, the indepandance, and their other incredible success.

>>5871288
Papo lindo, yo hice la misma cosa. Yo ahora soporto a la causa cubana y veo que los socialistas de aya no son el diablo. Pero solo porque soy cubano no me hace un juisio oficial en la politica cubana. Si algo, me hace naturalmente parcial

>>5872099
yo go suck a goats dick you fucking colombian or something. Probably a chileno or some shit
btw everything you said was gay and wrong

>>5872226
always try to have a distrust for any recorded latin music.generally, i'd say the older the better
look for 'raw' type shit
bossa nova isn't affected since most of the musicians were trained while also connected to what what happening on the streets

>>5871066
at the very least you can say that che was completely authentic. his ideas may have not been the best but he lived his life according to his own will.

>>5872524
Yeah. Hell, even Rothbard deeply admired him.