/lit/ - Literature

>>5858623
We>Brave New World>Handmaidens Tale>Fahrenheit 451>1984

1984 is extremely overrated

>>5858623
Is it russian? Id read russian dystopian novels

>>5858623
Agreed

Too much sexiness to be read in 9th or 10th grade or whatever like 1984 though.

>>5858638
>Good things are no longer so good when too many people like it. Especially people I don't like for being too stupid

This is one of the attributes of the "hipster" is it not?

>>5858644
Good thing butterfucks is here to tell people what they are saying

>>5858644
I don't mean overrated by the average person on the street. I love Brave New World, which is equally famous. I just think 1984 is simplistic and doesn't actually reveal anything about politics or society.

If We is so good, then how come they don't teach it in school?

>>5858716
Because Stalin banned it

>>5858638
I wax reading 451 and while in the first couple chapters there was a line when the guy got home at night and he didn't want to take his wife so he used a lighter to see and it was something like this
"He light the lighter and her two glowing moonstones followed him across the room"
I was so fucking lost and not wanting to miss anything I started the whole thing over to see any mention of fucking glowing moon rocks and couldn't so I kept reading and it was saying her eyes were following him
I was so fucking pissed that I put the book down and never picked it up again

>>5858663
>I just think 1984 is simplistic and doesn't actually reveal anything about politics or society.
I donno. I think it does and you just don't like it or something.

>>5859890
That's probably the saddest and dumbest thing I've ever read.

>>5858716
Because Social-Marxism

>>5859928
What's sad and fucking dumb is that he could have said something along the lines of
"She followed him with his eyes"
Seriously its like someone would gave said
"Her two shining diamonds followed him across the room"
Its stupid unnecessary prose. I can understand making a sentence longer if it makes it read better or sound better but fucking really "Two fucking moonstones following someone across a room" is a retarded way of saying they were being watched

>>5859953
It's just so simple and you couldn't understand it...

It's okay anon, but Ray Bradbury is not a hard writer by any means.

>>5859964
Well I was in school at the time
It was required reading

>>5859976
I don't understand the public school system. I didn't really grasp why Fahrenheit 451 was important till my college years. I mean, yes, it is simple to read, but some of the meaning and overall message I can guarantee are lost on high schoolers.

I love 451. Bradbury is a great writer, but 451 was just an amazing piece of art.

>>5859890
You should give this book a shot buddy

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/34181/34181-h/34181-h.htm

Actually you should all read it. Pure gold.

>>5859920

Totalitarianism is bad. A surveillance state is bad. Wow, what a revelation.

Don't get me wrong, I like Orwell, but I think Homage to Catalonia or Animal Farm are much better critiques of that sort of thing. 1984 basically takes the plot of "We" and the brutal, repressive government of "The Iron Heel".

Any book about Stalinist Russia accomplishes the same thing. "The Foundation Pit" or "Darkness at Noon" have the same themes, but those stories really stuck with me.

I will give Orwell credit for popularizing ideas like doublethink, but even that is something that other authors wrote about.

>>5862211
If it's common sense that both of those things are bad, how did we get where we are now? That book is only socially relevant because that's where we are now. Drone cameras. Perpetual war. SJW thought police.

Hurr.

We is better in the sense of originality.

It's story was shittier compared to the other two.

Prove me wrong, protip, you can't.

1984 is the best of the three.

H I P S T E R ! ! !

Yeah, We is the best by far. A female antichrist fighting for freedom against God and a futurist pseudo-USSR that conducts operations to remove imaginations? Good fucking shit.

>>5862226
there are tons of cliche and obvious truths which are ignored by billions of people

does that mean that writing a book on them makes you some kind of writing god?

We was able to more accurately critique the issue with communism and central planning and its the better book

>>5862265
>>5862231
we had the best moments in it

when he talks about the disease of consciousness and awareness its better than ANYTHING in 451 or 1984

i dont have the quote in front of me, but basically if a nail or tooth is healthy you dont notice it, its only when a nail or tooth is unhealthy that youre aware of its presence so too doesnt it make sense that his awareness of the self is unhealthy

>>5858623
Anthem > We

>>5862231
The story in We is way better, the characters actually DO something. "I" is fucking motivated and actually has a plan and is interesting. There is nothing fucking interesting about either Winston or Julia, neither of them are exception, neither of them do shit but fuck. And Brave New World is better storywise, but again there's really no driving force like "I" involved, it's just plot-driven.

>>5862495
honestly 1984 reads like someone read We and was like "whoa thats sweet" and then tried to write it again by memory

>>5862519
No, Julia is a rebel grrll because OMG she has sex111!! Whereas I is a rebel girl because she has a fucking brain and a philosophy. Orwell's dwelling that hard on sex being suppressed is really stupid, and he makes it central focus of his plot, which is just really stupid, I mean, what the fuck? The affair in We is much more interesting. We is just done better in every way, because it gives a very sex-positive attitude within an overly sex-positive dystopia, that's a tricky thing to pull off, and Orwell clearly couldn't do it.

>>5862495
There's your problem: you're reading for ridiculousness, not insight.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. 1984 is genius, though.

>>5862552
We is far more insightful than 1984, it covers many more themes and has a far wider variety of characters.

>>5862563
It's a rip-off, and a mediocre one at that.

>>5862569
I highly doubt it. And based on your posts, I wouldn't look to you to judge.

>>5862563
>1984 is genius, though.

Every time I think it's impossible for you to be a worse poster, you go and do something like and completely break new ground.

>>5862575
Ah, well you haven't read it, that explains a lot.

>Orwell began Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949) some eight months after he read We in a French translation and wrote a review of it.[23] Orwell is reported as "saying that he was taking it as the model for his next novel."[24] Brown writes that for Orwell and certain others, We "appears to have been the crucial literary experience."[25] Shane states that "Zamyatin's influence on Orwell is beyond dispute."[26]

>>5862581
Have a point sometime, maybe, you absolute nobody.

>>5862584
I'm very much aware We influenced Orwell in some way, anon. The Two Minutes Hate is immediately reminiscent of the Two Hundred Years War, for example (yes, I've read some of We). I just doubt it can provide more than 1984 - that book summed up everything for me.

>>5862643
>I'm very much aware We influenced Orwell in some way, anon. The Two Minutes Hate is immediately reminiscent of the Two Hundred Years War,
How so?

I think it's reminiscent of 1984 for a number of reasons, but that isn't one of them.

>>5862651
Well, just in the naming. I had thought initially that it might be some dig at We, as he takes digs at Huxley, but perhaps this is incorrect. I'm probably going to give We another chance before reading too much into it.

>>5862673
>Well, just in the naming
The 30 years war is reminiscent of 12 years a slave, right guys?

>>5862682
Don't be ridiculous, mate. It's obviously some reference Orwell makes to We.

Maybe its just me(because I love math) but the mathematical analogies are so interesting, I don't think i've ever read a book that relates something so basic like math to larger issues. Its really thoughtful so maybe thats why I prefer it.

O'Brien is basically Thought Incarnate, by the way. 1984 was never meant to be an adventure or even a dystopia; but almost a dream of reality, a personification of thought.

>>5862718

>>5862729
Nothing autistic about the mathematical metaphors in We i, an imaginary number, is also of course irrational number, and "fixing it" is a source of frustration for protagonist, a mathematician. Lot's more interesting literary use of mathematics.

>>5862718
Have you read Krzhizhanovsky? He uses mathematical analogies, like he has this great story where he says that society is n and that he lives in n-1 along with the other loners and rejects of society, and thought these two dimensions occupy the same space, they cannot perceive each other.

>>5859920
>I dunno. I think it does and you just dont like it or something
It's like youre trying to shitpost

if you read and understand We theres nothing in 1984 of notable value

just the fax maam

if you didnt fully understand We then there could be things in 1984 that seem new or noteworthy to you

>>5862728
>but almost a dream of reality, a personification of thought.

You're really fucking autistic, and don't understand the irony of your own stupidity.

>>5862787
Like kitty, Paradise thinks acting like a retard is cute and funny. it comes from watching too much anime

>>5862457
Anthem, for its short length, is bretty good. It is concise and gets the point across
also there's a happy ending for once

>>5862787
>>5862790
Don't be mad at your own stupidity, anons. I'm a thousand times smarter than both of you; just deal with it.

>>5862774
I also think there's more than meets the eye to 1984's dismissal, in fairness. I think it's unnervingly ominous, skirting so close to real life, and there's petty denial in people's crying about it.

>>5862785
>just the fax maam
Such dressiness in speech is equal to psychological concealment, anon ;)

>>5862785
I don't understand why 1984 gets all the fame when clearly We was first chronologically

>>5862797
>Don't be mad at your own stupidity, anons. I'm a thousand times smarter than both of you; just deal with it.
Being stupid is not cute for women, they can just get away with it. It sure as shit isn't cute for a man.

>skirting so close to real life,
Yeah, we're hurling toward more and more repression of sex.

>>5862808
We was made by a rusky

1984 was written by BRILLIANT POLITICAL SATIRIST GEORGE ORWELL

>>5862808
I would imagine because it's not so outlandish, anon. Even BNW begins in a way with which we are familiar - machines. But We starts with these utterly alien characters, hardly even imaginable.

>>5862808
We doesn't get read in HS, and that's most likely because it's pretty anti-Christian and overtly identifies the Benefactor with the Christian God.

>>5862812
Stop crying at me, you dumb cunt. If you want to talk, I'll talk. But you have to approach me as an adult.

>>5862818
Huh? How are the characters in We "alien"? You mean the narrator, because he's an autistic weenie (at least in the beginning)?

>>5862817
>We was made by a rusky
This might also have a small something to do with it.

>>5862822
lol what an idiot a bloo bloo you're stupid anon

This is how you talk on a regular basis, why would I approach you as an adult?

>>5862830
I'm just guessing, anon, but yeah. I'd say We is less pressing as an idea of a dystopia.

>>5858663
>1984 is simplistic and doesn't actually reveal anything about politics or society
>We does

Enlighten me

>>5862839
We explores the pressure to be happy and the cult of reason much better than 1984 does.

>>5862836
>lol what an idiot a bloo bloo you're stupid anon
Actually, that's you. I just meet anons in the middle lest they be successful in their hammering home a delusion :)

The bit about the sexual repression is obvious, by the way. You'd think a 4channer would get it, taking his catharsis in sharing depravity with other anons. Creep thread, anyone?

>>5862872
The bit about sexual repression is simply there so Orwell can make an illicit romance the focus of the plot. An illicit romance is a very important element of the plot in We too, but it's not illicit because sex is repressed, and it's not a romance-for-itself.

>>5862895
I very much disagree - sexual repression is a huge part of our current societal being; Orwell is merely mapping reality. And then it becomes a wound to fester, too - in the end, there was no love and the only romance was in a denial of this repression (Winston so aroused by the notion that Julia had slept with so many men; Winston uses it as a last stand against O'Brien).

>>5862923
It's pathetic, but people will masturbate away their defeat in anything. A man's dick can become the ultimate denial of the ills of the world.

>>5862923
>>5862931
God damn are you this fucking retarded and annoying in real life too? No one cares about your shit opinions. You look like an absolute idiot replying to yourself three times. You're not even good at your "lol I'm much 2patrish for you even though I just have hot opinions and get mad". Xeno on /x/ absolutely BTFOs you at your own game and has for over a year. You are so fucking pointless.

>>5862923
>I very much disagree - sexual repression is a huge part of our current societal being
lol are you fucking stoned?

Our society in inundated with sex, it's fucking everywhere, sex is today what God was in the Middle Ages. Have you been having sex? Is it enough sex? How many people have you had sex with? How long do you last? Did he make you orgasm? Did you make her orgasm? Was she faking it? How long was the orgasm? Are you enjoying sex? Are you enjoying it ENOUGH? It should be incredible beyond belief. If not, it's a problem. How regularly are you having sex with your partner? That's not often enough, your relationship is clearly on the rocks.

>>5862945
Nice sperg, bro. Go fuck yourself now, loser :)

>>5862953
>You will always be an idiot who can't express themselves and gets unreasonably mad despite making themself a target
>You're next post will be NOU
>You are totally unable to ignore this post

>>5862947
Yes, things have changed - I'm not saying they haven't. Orwell is still incredibly relevant, though.

>>5862960
I deny the petty control measure of your post, anon. You are a loser.

>>5858623
We is Tight. BNW was interesting but kind of boring as I recall. 1984 was terrifying and more enjoyable to read. I think it is weird to rank them though. I am glad they all exist. This comment is useless and I am sorry for that.

>>5862972
Nah, it was cool.

>>5862961
Sex is too central. Whereas I has sex with a lot of men illicitly (you're supposed to use the state as a go-between for all sexual arrangements) as a facet of rebellion, for Julia sex is the only way she rebels, it is the sum of rebellion.

>>5862978
Sex is the height of rebellion for women, anon. It's a simple fact.

>>5862983
For men, it's masturbation.

Ridiculous men and women, that is.

Who wants me to read We? :3

>>5862983
It is the height of rebellion for teenage girls, not for women.

>>5862993
I'd rather you didn't, honestly.

>>5862997
In fairness, 1984 is more of a man's book.

>>5863003
Yes, whereas We is an adult's book.

>>5863000
lol

>>5863005
Feminister used to really like it and she was kinda ridiculous, I think she might have painted my perception of those first few pages I read.

>>5863010
The book is ridiculous in parts, because it has a lot of satire, just like Gulliver's Travels is ridiculous. But it's ultimately a bleak work, very bleak.

>>5863023
I like you, anon :)
I'm gonna read it.

>>5863010
>Feminister used to really like it
>Sobs

>>5863071
:(

>>5863074
You wouldn't happen to be that guy from Ireland would you?

I've been pocking around shops looking for We, but I guess I should just get it online.

>>5863080
Was it not obvious? :P

>>5863086
>>5863080
off topic but seriously why do tripfags even exist

>>5863089
molestation and insecurity

>>5863089
need for attention and an inability to socialize in meaningful ways

>>5863101
ty anon

What delusional little children :)

Better questions, actually: Why does anonymity exist? Is it not anonymity which is truly unnatural? :)

It's weird that, while butterfly is an annoying cunt, Paradise simply scares the shit out of me. How does a person become this fucking broken. I assume butterfly is just an attention seeking whore who is too scared to actually get the trampstamp she runs by. Paradise though speaks only in vaguely robotic clauses and has the digital mannerisms of an emotionally stunted sixteen year old autistic child who tortures rabbits and dreams of fucking his mother.

>>5863112
how about just use reddit?

>>5863115
Reasons :)

>>5863113
That's quite the stream of projection, anon.

>>5863113
>Paradise though speaks only in vaguely robotic clauses and has the digital mannerisms of an emotionally stunted sixteen year old autistic child who tortures rabbits and dreams of fucking his mother.
Would make a great short story Anon.

If you're not going to write a Paradise fan fiction I will

>>5863112
No. It's not. It's actually really normal for ideas to disseminate faster than the names attached to them in times that aren't now. Most people would attach their ideas onto famous names for legitimacy or have their ideas accidentally attributed to them in the future due to celebrity funneling. Out of thirty billion people history could have recorded, we have ~.0001% of them noted in meaningful ways.

You are an intentional aberration because the times allow for it. You're on a website devoted to anonymous mutual discourse by the very structure of it. Say what you want, you're definitely, actively trying to be a special snowflake.

>>5863121
And here we have the fear of the depraved anon :)

Enjoy writing the story, retard.

>>5863124
>Say what you want, you're definitely, actively trying to be a special snowflake.
Incorrect.

>>5863120
Wait a second, are tripfags just people who suck at reddit so they come here where their shittiness is not tracked numerically?
>>5863121
>mfw this was his plan all along, to be written about

>>5863115
he might actually be associated by a reddit account and wants all the benefits of anonymity while acting like he's above it. Tripping really is the best of both worlds while still being a little bitch about the whole thing.

>>5863120
>I am rubber, you are glue.
what a goddamn faggot. Everyone look at the faggot, since it's clearly what it wants.

>>5863132
Pathetic.

>>5863134
Let's not forget I spent this thread expounding on people being pathetic in sex, retard. It's you who's going 'i'm rubber ur glur hurr' and with regard to pretty much everything I've been saying since I took up trip. Be less of a delusional retard.

>>5863086
You are!

Have you talked with her at all since August?

>>5863089
Same reason you do.
>>5863101
You're insecure? Aww.

>>5863128
You're tripping on a slow as fuck board, intentionally going against the grain for no reason other than personal satisfaction. You're welcome to be in denial, but you're 100% going out of your way to be a special snowflake on 4chan. I hope you're a child because if a grown adult is behind that trip then you're a broken shell of a human being who refuses to kill themselves for the betterment of your immediate social surroundings.

My God, you lot are fucking pathetic. It's ridiculous.

>hurr paradise is robotic I see him post robitically lmfao
What an insecure little shit you are.

>>5863141
Wrong. Cry more, though.

>>5863140
Nope :(

i did not mean to derail this thread. apologies every one.

I think regarding this thread's topic, I could rank these books by how horrifying their respective worlds are and it would go

1984>[barely] We >>>>>Brave New World

>>5863142
I think the spookiest part about Paradise is his apparent craving for self-flagellation.

He gets so fucking mad in every thread yet he keeps on coming back for more

>>5863142
>Says the tripfag who habitually replies to himself if no one else does

'Kay.

>>5863146
Have you ever been on omegle? I one time chatted with a psychopath from ireland who sounded a lot like you.

>NO GUYS I SEX A LOT.
holy shit you make it sound like you deserve a fucking medal. You should apologize for being such an enormous faggot to everyone you talk to before you begin any conversation.

>pic unrelated

>>5863157
Do you really think I'm mad?

I know why Butterfly trips btw, it's quite obvious. Can I say it Butterfly? :3

>>5863157
inb4
>NO UR THE ONE THAT'S MAD

>>5863161
Nice post, retard. How does it feel that you're never going to amount to anything intellectually?

>>5863166
Wow, late to the party lol
Embarrassing ><

>>5863172
>Late by 46 seconds

Doh-ho-ho, you sure got him!

>>5863169
Nigga I have papers published, books sold and I consult on artificial intelligence programs. I'm here because I love the 4chan method of discourse.

Ignoring that, if you were killed the world wouldn't notice and wouldn't care. That's really the main focus of our time here tonight: reminding you that your only tangible effects on the world around you are immediate and fleeting. These posts will serve as your longest standing influence on the world.

>>5863178
>no u
lol

You're a retard, mate. It's quite obvious.

>>5863080
http://leecworkshops.wikispaces.com/file/view/yevgeny-zamyatin-we.pdf

There's also libraries.

>>5863183
I'm glad you post like you do. It prevents anyone from taking you seriously. You're like a sock puppet argument we can collectively rally against at any given turn. It's a strong power you wield, the ability to make any argument you stand beside seem like the worst one; use such power wisely you enormous shitlord.

>>5863191
God, you're a pathetic little shit. Anyway - enjoy :P

>>5863141

fucking btfo

>>5863197
What's your family life like, Paradise?

>>5863295
I was blessed. I have two younger brothers, can't wait for them to get older. One half-sister (kinda) in between, she's a bit peevish in her post-adolescent years but I love her. Grandparents. Etc., etc. The best dog ever. I'll probably get into a fistfight with my old man over Christmas, but it's just pressure relief. Mother's dumb and wants me to be a boxer, but I love her.

>>5863303
Cool gardening uncle living just down the road, married to primary school teacher who's got to be one of the most sentimental/kind women I've ever met.

>>5863303
>Mother's dumb and wants me to be a boxer

>>5863324
There's a girl boxer dog living down the road too who flirts with me a lot and sometimes lands outside my window at 5 in the morning basically knocking for me to come out. I have a way with animals :3

>>5863146
Well, drat.
>>5863188
>http://leecworkshops.wikispaces.com/file/view/yevgeny-zamyatin-we.pdf

I suppose there's this. Thanks.

I have a way with old ladies too, it's actually like I have superpowers.

>>5858644
1984 got it all wrong. Sexual freedom is an illusion. The masters would love nothing more than for you to fuck yourself to oblivion while taking away your actual rights.

>>5862211
>Totalitarianism is bad. A surveillance state is bad. Wow, what a revelation.

1984 is about a man's struggle to remember the past in the face of his own knowledge and participation in the altering of the past. You literally just picked up the most superficial elements.

>>5863333
>>5863359

please tell me you aren't hitting on her right now because that's really embarrassing.

>>5863409
The projection is real :P

>>5863406
This is interesting, actually.

Orwell had some of the clearest prose and posited his ideas in the clearest way possible. Whoever thinks that 1984 is still not the best of all of them, just because it seems irrelevant compared to the semi-experimental half-mystical Beat prose in Brave New World is just fooling himself.

I can't comment on We because in the end Orwell, who was the master of the English tongue, will always be better than an English translation. Whatever it is though Orwell's entire corpus is necessary reading for beautiful clarity in prose.

>>5858623
1984 and BNW are sons of WE

>>5863439
>I can't comment on We because in the end Orwell, who was the master of the English tongue, will always be better than an English translation.
lol, fuck no. Even in translation, pretty much ANY translation, We has far, far better prose than 1984.

1984's prose is devoid of just about any expression, We's is filled with experimental and delightful prose if an idiosyncratic narrator who considers everything in mathematical terms, man who is passionate about reason.

>I write this, and I feel: my cheeks are burning. Yes, to integrate the grandiose cosmic equation. Yes, to unbend the wild, primitive curve and straighten it to a tangent—an asymptote—a straight line. For the line of the One State is the straight line. The great, divine, exact, wise straight line— the wisest of all lines.

Lets not forget that Orwell masterfully (or coincidentally) identified Stockholm Syndrome before the psychological phenomenon even occurred. During a Swiss bank robbery in 1973, the captives began to sympathize with their captors during the heist that lasted for 5 days. The sympathy they expressed for their captors at the end of the heist was identified and named Stockholm Syndrome.

When Winston is captured and tortured in Room 101, he is subjected to being with rats, his biggest fear. Winston rejects loving Julia and he begs Big Brother to force the rats onto her. Winston then professes the love for his captors and torturers, thus the Stockholm Syndrome as he claims to love and defend Big Brother.

>Stockholm Syndrome was identified in 1973
>1984 was published in 1949
>24 years before it was discovered
>tfw Orwell predicted a future psychological phenomenon

tl;dr: Orwell is a legend.