/lit/ - Literature

>>5860272
Nope, as we also have no other choice but judging them, if we happen to do so.
Now get out of my /lit/.

>>5860272
Blame and condemnation is also pre-determined.

The answer is, it doesn't matter, everything is already written to happen exactly as it happens based on what happened before--which can all be traced back to an ultimate causation.

Try not to an hero when you realize that everything I say is true.

>>5860281
>>5860286
but those, who accept determinism, do they blame them, and if so, do they have reasons for that?

>>5860281
lul how retarded is this guy

>>5860272
Yes OP, it does mean that. It may be taboo to speak of Sam Harris on this board but his book on free will is good, and one of its main points is that acknowledging the truth of determinism is important as it warrants a reform of legislation.

I wish he didnt write such shit prose and didnt have such shit sense of aesthetics, his ideas are good and he intends well.

This thread may dictate if OP puts blame on the biggest villains in history or not. Now, OP is asking, is determinism a good reason to believe that we should not put blame on the villains? "It is already determined" is not a real answer.

>but his book on free will is good
lol

>>5860300
>reading Sam Harris

>>5860300
His answer was not retarded. Yours was a lot.

>>5860341
>>5860323
>le meme

>>5860272
you can blame them for being shit but you can't blame them for choices they didn't make.

>>5860349
Sam Harris literally does not understand what compatibalism entails.

Like, he fails to even grasp the basics.
Read Dan Dennet's takedown of that book, it's vicious.

>>5860300
>his ideas are good
Clearly you've discovered a sam harris that has nothing to do with that new atheist bullshit

>>5860272
It's not about blaming people. The problem with determinism is that it frees men, like say Hitler, from a sense of responsibility for their actions. Existentialism, which was created in part because of your question, tells us that he made the choice to be the person he is. Therefore he solely his burden to bear.

>>5860600
Existentialism does not oppose determinism. Hitler did not make the choices that made him who he is. "Making choices" is not a thing that actually exists.

>>5860361
Can you link me to it? Google gives way too many options, I'd like to read the one you recommend.

>>5860361
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-marionettes-lament

dennet is so shit bro

>>5860361
Because compatibilism is retarded, they change the definition of what Free Will is and show that to be compatible with determinism but thats not what everyone else is talking about.

Determinism too loosely gets to the point. We are rational, essentially free entities. I'll forgive someone their past and be lenient in the present, otherwise they're asking for it.

>>5860286
>Try

Lul, good one.

They did have a choice you retard. Determinism has nothing to do with choices.

>>5861888
>>5861848
>>5860600
>>5860358
>>5860300
>>5860272

>I don't know what determinism means.

So many retards in this thread.

>>5862038
I know quite well what determinism means, actually.

>>5862050
simpering, unintelligent faggot

>>5860272
Sure we can, because we were predetermined to blame them

>>5862069
Your deterioration and delusional categorisation speaks reams, friend. :)

Yes thats kinda what it means, obviously we're not just going to let Hitler go free because the causal string of events made him that way, but we should understand why he did what he did.

>>5862038
>philosophy : the belief that all events are caused by things that happened before them and that people have no real ability to make choices or control what happens.

holy shit that prose is disgunting, dictionaries should know better

Anyway, do you agree with this definition? This is the one I, and I'm pretty sure mostly everyone in this thread is using. If you want to talk about some other type of determinism I suggest you make a new thread for it.

>>5862073
Maybe we were predetermined to not blame them. As for example any intelligent person with access to the truth of the nonexistence of free will is.

>>5860300
>his ideas
He has no answer that a million philosophers haven't already written and qualified to death, go back to reddit.

Yeah that's why most people shy away from the implications of determinism whilst secretly reveling in the excuses it provides in day to day life

checkre em

>>5861848
In fact you are the retard. 'Free will' is a vague and ill defined concept. Don't believe me? Just try to give a concise definition of what you think free will actually means.

While getting my Bachelor's in physics I went to dozens of different groups and had this discussion so many times. Ultimately I settled into compatibilism. It is a fact that decisions exist. You make a decision of where to get food, what clothing you will wear, etc. etc. Whether or not those decisions were predetermined doesn't really matter, as your very personality is a result of and exposed by the decisions you make. You do not and cannot exist in a vacuum in which you have no capacity to make choices which you understand will have consequences.

To put it another way: it is your choice whether you reply to this post. It is however a fact of space and time whether you will do so or not and what your reaction will be. This fact is concrete and has not changed (at this point putting words in proper tenses actually becomes difficult) from before I posted this till eternity. However this 'fact' is outside of any human's ability to reach until you make your choice.

>>5862038
>>5862069
>replying to tripfags

>>5862952
Apparently you aren't radically free to get dubs (like these)

>>5863022
nice
I believed I would but in believing I knew I would not be-in-the-dubs

foreal this time tho

>>5863029
Look at him. Look at him and laugh.

For what purpose would you blame someone or something? Does blame help you understand what happened? Blame is just useless judgment that leads nowhere. Analyze, don't blame.