/lit/ - Literature

>>5749518
Post modernism

>>5749518
being a high school senior

>>5749531
being will smith's child

>>5749518
Misdirected ambition? Art is a pretty loose term and not really something, by the very nature of the word, can be transcended (unless you start to use very specific and more meaningful definitions of the word). This is like saying I want to write something on pages in binding that is superior to books. It just doesn't make sense.

lyfe

>>5749518
Edgyness

>>5749526
Ok, I laughed.

>>5749518
Music.

>>5749907
m8 everyone knows the levels of expression

1. Literature
2. Art
3. Film
4. Music

>>5749518
pretention

>>5749518
A program.

>>5749518
Well, it sure as hell ain't Eva.

>>5749929
>Implying film isn't a the combination of all three

>>5750951

Film is the pinnacle of human expression.

non-art

i.e you're the kind of faggot who sits around thinking about "wanting" to write more than actually writing. you are the true non-artist.

>>5751301
>>5750951

uh huh
explain to me exactly how a more tightly constrained system is actually less constrained

checkmate, atheists

>>5751301

>>5751378
Words bear no meaning if you can't understand them.

>>5751778
Horseshit. Just because you don't understand विशाखापट्टनम विमानक्षेत्र doesn't mean it has no defined meaning.

>>5751788
The word 'banana' has more expression than your argument.

>>5750942
Edgy anon...

>>5749929

But music is the only expression written in one language, it is understood without translation.

>>5751378
>>5751301

Film has a thousand times more potential as an art form than literature.

Just because hollywood will NEVER reach that level, doesn't mean the medium can't rise above the shit that's churned out today.

Society is in an immature phase, our art forms have all dissolved in unison to the garbage we see today. Unfortunately, both film and video games were born in the decline.

Look at Hall Pass, and think of that as a children's book. Its immature, very little talent or passion went into its production, it was written almost entirely to profit off of idiots.

Then imagine what the Shakespeare of film would be. Fuck even the Dr. Seuss of film would be mind blowing.

>>5753130
You are wrong, why did you post that? Music is not written in a single language. If you are referring to "modern" musical notation (like in pic related) this tells me you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

>yfw you realize Eva is one of the greatest pieces of post-modernist film to come out during the latter half of the 21st century

>>5753527
>Film has a thousand times more potential as an art form than literature.

Comparing the two is moronic, they do different things. Just because film can have speech and quotes doesn't mean it replace or transcends literature.

I do agree with your argument on wasted potential, however.

>>5753527
>Film has a thousand times more potential

and video games a thousand times more than film

>>5753707
>implying we'll be stuck with post-modernism for over 50 more years.

Surely something new will pop up. Millenial literature might be interesting, dare I say, enlightening / revolutionary art.

Imagine combining all artistic mediums into a virtual reality--new flavors, new colors, new emotions smoothed together into a single experience. This will probably be the future.

>>5753737
It's a tough call. On one hand the immersion and choices is pretty great, but I think there is a major flaw in 'interactive freedom.' By this I mean in most games the player controls the pacing, thus ruining it. It'd be like reading a poem 3 words at a time, once per day. Now of course, genres like shmups and segments of forced platforming (ie the screen forces you to advance or stepped on platforms are destroyed) can help alleviate this, but what about the other genres? Sure, pacing may not be as important in like Myst, where the satisfaction comes mainly from solving the puzzles at all, but otherwise it holds true I think.

And that's not even touching on the awful, prevailing theory of 'cinematic plots' being the most artistic aspect of video games when it's actually the gameplay.

>>5753796

I don't believe that's a fair comparison.

Every art medium can be ruined my our flaws as human beings. Our eyes cannot see everything a film displays, our minds cannot understand every intricacy of every story or poem, our ears can miss beats of a musical piece, and we can screw up and get killed in video games.

We can only compare art mediums as either at their peak, or at their average.

Even our senses and emotions are subject to our flaws. We have thoughts that conflict with our emotion at the time, thus reducing the experience by a tiny amount, and sometimes we breathe at inopportune times and get a whiff of a fragrance that isn't as strong as it could of been. We may take a bite that is improperly placed or too small of a gourmet dish.

All forms of artistic mediums, as basic as they may be, are tainted simply because the people who enjoy it are human.

Every experience can be ruined, as depressing as that may sound.

You can't make something that is superior to something that doesn't exist.

>>5753838
never heard that one before, you sure are unique with that poorly developed statement.

>>5753825
>Every experience can be ruined, as depressing as that may sound.

Most definitely, but what I'm referring to is a bit different; I'm talking more about an 'ideal' subject. An ideal reader will have a healthy vocabulary and knowledge of literature for allusions -- looking up things they don't know -- will know to read properly, and so on. But an ideal player is a lot more tricky. An ideal player will know how the game works, the controls, have experience in the genre, etc., but how can you ensure a player won't grind so much that the rest of the game becomes cheese in an RPG? Or isn't so experienced in Quake's movement that they know how to bypass the entire level via tricky jumps? I mean, this freedom is one of the great positive traits of the medium, but it can also be problematic from a creator standpoint.

>>5753908
How can you ensure that someone that has experience with literature will not see twists and plot lines coming? Or be continually surprised by the imagery.

How can you ensure that the reader knows enough about mechanics to understand intricacies, but not so much that every flaw in a story is able to be picked apart?

The more complex the medium, the more complex the person needs to be to enjoy it to its fullest. Its expected, video games have a much higher potential for art, for impacting the reader with memorable entertainment, and for wasted experiences.

>>5753560
>why did you post that?
>modern musical notation
Yes this is my basic understanding of music, this is what music looks like in its written form no? Musicians can play the same song when they read it no? Does it require translation to be understood? No.

>>5753900
Thanks. I was trying really hard to impress you.

Science.

>>5753755
Post-modernism has been over for some time. If I recall correctly, some have claimed that it ended on September 11th.

>>5753939
Again, those comparisons aren't quite relevant to what I'm talking about. Those are equal to people missing side quests or secret areas or some special ability in a game.

>>5753796
That's why I've always said that video games should be approached more like sculpture or painting because the way they're interacted with is driven by the person playing the game, not the creator.

>>5754470
Could you elaborate?

>>5754477
The way you experience literature and film is totally controlled by the person who made the book/film. When you look at a sculpture your eye is free to look at any part in any order, the sculptor can have some control by making a certain feature stand out, but he doesn't have the same grip on you that a writer does, this of course makes the sculptor think differently from the author. Because video games are interactive, that idea is multiplied, the gamer is allowed to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and explore the world at his leisure. When a game designer continues to insist on trying to tell a narrative as if it were a book or a movie you get hard, awkward divisions between gameplay and story because the designer wanted to make a movie but still had to make a game.

>>5754504
Oh I completely understand and agree on that, I was referring more to what specifically about the approach would you suggest the creators do differently?

superior to art is a term like "king of gods"
it sounds cool, but does not really mean anything and is basically a declaration rather than anything else.

>>5754515
I've always thought that a lot of exploration games are on the right track. (Some that are coming to my mind are Fez, Proteus, Elder Scrolls to an extent?) What I'd like to see more of is sort of a more 'active' exploration, I feel like in exploration games that are out right now the world feels too passive, even if you're doing something the world feels static, like you're not really influencing it directly. With video games you could create dynamic landscapes that are deeply, genuinely engaged in a player's input. It's monumental art with no limits. I think about the kind of artists who make modern sculptures in parks or whatever, and what that kind of inspiration could do in a medium like video games.

>>5749929
>considering music below other forms of expression
Oh. My. God.

>>5749518
Define superior.

fart.

>>5749929
>>5753527
but the internet is an even less constricting form of expression.

>>5749518
Philosophy.

Asuka's body

>>5749518

Tragedy

>>5756583

Fuck you faggot go suck socrates dick omg you are such a faggot

>>5749929
actually it's:
>art [classical] music
>literature
>art
>film

>>5751678
Exactly. That movie was hella good.

>>5755096
Yeah I think he is trolling.

a script for oxymorphone

>>5750951
You mean video games

>>5754224
This

In terms of art, literature cannot be beat. Not only is literature a way of entertaining people through gripping prose or storylines or arguments, but it also can educate. The only artform I know of that can do that. Documentaries, of course, exist. And to be fair, those are my favorite types of film, and if done well, they can be very entertaining.

But they are nothing compared to literature: the spreading of perception. No matter if you're reading fiction or non-fiction, everyone is a philosopher, with their own views on reality and it's transferred into their work.

>>5759792
>Not only is literature a way of entertaining people through gripping prose or storylines or arguments, but it also can educate. The only artform I know of that can do that.
ever heard of cinema m8

>>5759796
That's literally the next sentence I make in that post. Please. It embarrass everyone when you don't read the full post

I will be the first to admit my post was rather contradictory though.

>>5759792
A videogame can contain more prose than a book and more visual expression than film.
I think the books strongest point is that it is usually a contained vision of a single artist. Film and videogames suffer from a muddled vision through work allocation

>>5751301
Are you saying that humans couldn't properly express them self before film (as in for more than 99% of human history)?

>>5749929
>ranking art forms
>not embracing the beauty, evocative power and transcendental qualities of all

>>5753527

hall pass was funny

>>5756706
asuka is the tragic heroine of the show; shinji is the villain

>>5753527
How can you have any imagination of you own when you are always lead by someone else's vision. The dumbing down of our society today has much to do with the numbing of films and televised programs.

>>5761400
Society was always dumb.