/lit/ - Literature

filthy dumb statist scum

>>5714912
I want Peter Hitchens to die

>>5714918

die cis scum

>>5714925
Why?

>>5714933
He's an idiot

Hegel > Hobbes

>>5714918
>>5714925
>>5714952

>>5714925
this

>>5714918
antistatists are both anticipated and dealt with right off the bat in leviathan. back to the state of nature with you

>>5715056
why?

>>5715366
>>5714925
that's not very christian of you

>>5715375
i'm not a christian

>>5714912
Somebody has never read The Concept of the Political

Hobbes was a hack; pretty much all of his contemporaries are more worth reading than him.

>>5715464
what's schmitt's argument?

>>5715483
why is he a hack?

>>5715486
>what's schmitt's argument?
It's basically Hobbes rewritten for the twentieth century, with the fake appeals to natural law and "reason" removed.

>>5715483
>better than Harrington
>better than Sidney
>better than Milton
>better than Spinoza
>better than Descartes
>better than Filmer
>better than literally every contemporary

>worse than most of his contemporaries

Pick one

>>5714912
You are a bad person and that´s a fact

The "state of nature" as conceived by Hobbes doesn't actually describe accurately human interaction without a nation state or explicit social contract.

Human beings generally start to organize themselves well enough if you just drop them somewhere. In addition, the kind of horrible violence described by Hobbes as the state of nature is, on the contrary, almost impossible without a good deal of collaboration.

This isn't to say that Hobbes was a bad philosopher. I just think he was incorrect.

>>5715855
>>5715855
Okay. I pick "worse than most of his contemporaries."

>>5716057
You are wrong.

>>5715375
>why?

Hegel's theory of the state incorporats and improves upon Hobbes' sovereignty in both scope and in terms of the freedom it allows and demands.

>>5714912
Almost all of them are better, brah.

>>5715464
Somebody has never read On Human Conduct.

>write the finest work of political philosophy ever
>still insist Leviathan is the only masterpiece

dat humility

>I'm going to proclaim that I like this work without saying anything interesting or constructive
Cancer

>>5716052
It's also why the anti-state fags are wrong. Human interactions will always collapse into a state, just not necessarily post-Westphalian state.

>>5716052
>The "state of nature" as conceived by Hobbes doesn't actually describe accurately human interaction without a nation state or explicit social contract.
It's not supposed, dumbass. It's a hyperbolic example for metaphorical purposes, just like Rousseau's state of nature. It's not meant to have been literally like that, because there has ALWAYS been some sort of 'statist' arrangement, even among pack animals there's a hierarchy and order. It's an expression of total absence of ;statism', which of course would be impossible, but that's not the point. In primordial times you can family, clan and tribal 'states', but if you DIDN'T have those, if we did not organize in hierarchical structures, then each individual would be a state unto himself, and the conditions would be exactly likes Hobbes vision of total decentralization and autonomy.

>>5714912
De Cive says the very same thing of Leviathan and is shorter and easier to read. You should try it, anon

>>5719378
>De Cive says the very same thing of Leviathan and is shorter and easier to read.
Is this true?

>>5715486
schmitt is like a modern nazi hobbes. he's a cool guy

>>5719102
I am a fan.

Is there anywhere I can get this in both English and Latin without paying like $300.

>>5720323
The three volume version edited by Noel Malcom for Oxford University Press's Clarendon Edition of the Works of Thomas Hobbes includes both versions, and can be got brand new in paperback for £48 (which is around $75) without the editorial introduction (the first volume, which costs around £20 individually).

>>5714912
oh, /lit/.

I prefer Bohis Lovves's Behemoth.