/lit/ - Literature

>>5643784
I wanted to do something like this as well but am having hiccups in the storyboard process so I'm putting it off until I finish my nanowrimo book.

>>5643784
Machiavelli?

>>5643784
Chinese/spanish author, not really popular in the west, not banned by chinese regime, is famous at workers in china, called youci desui, may not availble(correct me) in english

>>5643784
Oh and the Magic Mountain but pay close attention to Settembrini

>>5643784
if you want to be radical, of curse Hitler, heinrich himler, hermann goering, mursolini

The only good and healthy thing for the "masses" is a bullet to the head.

>>5643855
you are one of the "masses", of course.
you go first

>>5643784
have you studied history? there are tons of historical literature on the subject of nationalism.

>>5643861
Another use for the "masses" would be as a source of Vellum to print Nietzsche on.

>>5643784
it literally isn't but whatever works for you, op

>>5643887
Ebin, simply ebin, I could not agree more :^)

>>5643818
I'm interested in this, care to post a link?

>>5643823
>not Mazzini, Garbaldi or Cavour
>not even Bismarck
Tell me more of these wonderful tales from the history channel.

>>5643899
Define Freethinker

>>5643894
Diversity is strength, right?! XDDDD

Get lost cuck. Actually, just kill yourself.

"The Prime of Miss Jean Brody" if fascism counts as nationalism.

>>5643887
>>5643929
Fuck off, Nietzsche was a bourgeoisie piece of shit.

ITT

>>5643962
>"CAREFULLY LAID-ON HORROR."
>The New York Times
I think my face just melted.

>>5643961
> Nietzsche
> Bourgeois
Suuuure

>>5643969
More careful than this one

>>5643971
>>5643855
I liked your opinins on east europe sci-fi yesterday. How do you coordinate a dislike for nationalism with a nation based take on literary culture?

>>5643971
He's whole philosophy is aimed at the Bourgeois and hated socialism, fuck him.

>>5643961
n hated the market

>>5643983
he hated socialism doesn't mean hes some randian

>>5643982
Nations and nationalism are different things. Nations form naturally, and need not be nationalist, as they are usually based on culture. Nationalism is a more recent thing, an abnormal magnification of tribal society into a mass-movement of previously unseen dimensions. Mass-movements always attract the weakest and most deformed minds in a society. Being part of a bigger and potentially violent thing lets them redefine they individual inferiority as communal superiority. It also absolves them of personal accountability. Not a good thing. I even would prefer democracy to that.

>>5644053
>Mass-movements always attract the weakest and most deformed minds in a society. Being part of a bigger and potentially violent thing lets them redefine they individual inferiority as communal superiority. It also absolves them of personal accountability.

Source?

>>5644083
> Source
Me watching some hoodies from my window.

>>5644049
He was still a bourgeois piece of shit who refused to acknowledge the human suffering in the world.

>“I dislike Nietzsche because he likes the contemplation of pain, because he erects conceit into a duty, because the men whom he most admires are conquerors, whose glory is cleverness in causing men to die.” - Bertrand Russell

>>5644107
He DID acknowledge it. And then he said it was a good thing as long as it didn't kill you. Suffering is a good teacher and hate is as good a motivator as love.

>>5644121
Anyone who thinks being oppressed and exploited is a good thing is someone not worth listening to.

Adolf Hitler, but make sure to read inbetween the lines because he wasn't a very good writer.

>>5644153
What he meant was the human condition. Suffering through acts of nature, not exploitation by other humans.

I think the benefits of nationalism should be self evident.

>>5644239
Don't be stupid, he said in Beyond Good and Evil slavery in some form would be needed, that's exploitation at its finest.

>I'm going to try and fail to validate my emotional crutch that lessens the pain of my personal failures by shifting perception of value to the success of one of the groups I was arbitrarily put in through my birth

Nationalism has been laughably indefensible for decades OP

>>5644276
there are a few laughably indefensible presumptions in this post bro.
>everybody who takes pride in their country is a personal failure who needs an emotional crutch
>groups you're a part of by virtue of birth should be totally ignored as if you aren't even a part of them

>>5644303
fuck off fascist.
>>>/pol/

>>5644053
I wasn't commenting on OP's nationalism but your own "the masses need a bullet in the head" take on national level ideologies.

>>5643784
>wants to write about nationalism being good
>posts fucking north korea

This had better be a joke.

>>5643933
back to /b/ with you

>>5644276
Without nationalism democracy as we know it wouldn't exist.

It is natural to want to protect what you have. Nationalism is a way for people like you and I to enact change against change. Nationalists want to keep their bit the same as it has always been, personally I don't see why they are demonised.

For example when you are young you learn to speak and inevitably you pick up an accent. You may like your accent in which case good for you you have nothing to be unhappy about, or you may no strong feelings one way or the other about it, or thirdly you may be unhappy with it. Those who are unhappy with it are of course the minority and it follows that if you are unhappy with your accent you actively try to change it to that which you see as superior for whatever reason. You practice and take particular care in your pronunciation and elocution. Nobody bothers you because you actively try to change to fit your views on the 'best' accent and you don't bother anyone doing so.

Now, say you are in the first group who ARE happy with their accent to begin with. Consider that one day you see someone in the street holding a sign saying "your accent is awful, it should be illegal, my accent is the best" how would you feel? For that matter how would those who are ambivalent towards their accent feel? They would both naturally feel a mixture of emotions, anger, fear, confusion, pity, hatred even etc. Moreover let's imagine that the person telling you your accent is bad is telling you in the exact same accent that they are deriding.

You don't want to change your accent, you never claimed yours was superior, you just enjoyed it for what it is and led a happy content life as such. But what happens when you notice another man in the street professing the same hate for your accent, maybe after that a group of people, then a march down the main street in your capital city? You even see some of the people you know have your accent siding with those who claim to hate it, you would obviously want to stop this change.

You don't care if others have different accents, but you damn well want to keep yours as it is and you won't take to others ridiculing it.

This is nationalism. A reactionary want to be left alone and to leave others alone.

>>5644349
Back to leddit.

>>5643899
thats a fucking greyhound bus, stop triggering me

i have PTSD from a 2500 mile journey on greyhounds

>>5644534
I enjoyed reading this post.

>>5644276
My nation is a part of who I am. I was shaped by it as I was shaped by my parents, my teachers, the books I read, the games I played, and the women I've loved. It is the air I breath and the water I drink. Whether I LIKE my nation or not is inconsequential. I am an American. That label is not a crutch, its the truth.

>>5644530
Without my cock shoved into your mother's mouth democracy as we know it wouldn't exist.

>2014
>believing 'nations' even exist anymore
I bet you're one of these American mutts who calls themselves English or German because the plurality of their bloodline comes from whatever part of England or Germany is poor and sucks. I don't go around marching with the IRA because my potatonigger ancestors ran away from home.

>>5644608
Also, nations no longer exist because global culture (in non-shit countries) has become homogenized aside from minor quirks.

>>5644627
>McDonalds in every major city is "global culture"

>>5643784

"The Doctrine of Fascism" by Benito Mussolini and "2083 - A European Declaration of Independence" by Anders Breivik.

>>5644645
I could go to France and watch the same TV, read the same books, listen to the same music, and do pretty much everything the same except with more baguettes and while speaking French. Deal with it, /pol/ack faggot.

>>5644627

american movies and songs isn't global culture

>>5644652
>ghostwritten
>copy+pasted the Unabomber and threw in some incoherent ranting about multicultaralism

>>5644658
>american doesn't understand what culture is

fucking typical
top lel

>>5644658
>I could go to France and watch American TV, read American books, listen to American music, and do pretty much everything American except with more baguettes and while speaking French.

Fixed.

>>5644667
>buttmad Yuro who thinks costumes and dancing equate culture

>globalists

Disgusting.

>>5644691
that picture is fucking gay, /b/ro

>>5644693
ur mom is gay ;^)

#rekt

>>5644691
>yfw the only difference between any of those places in column A is the food their clothes
Please, all this "B-but I'm just defending culture!" shit you people spew just reads as "I hate foreigners and get butthurt easily."

>>5644717
it's just a fucking comic

good luck trying to fit culture in there

>>5644717
Why do you hate culture so much?

>>5644717
well it's actually very difficult to accurately depict the nuances between and within different cultures in a dozen or so cartoon panels

If you can't figure out what it's trying to say then you're a tard

>>5644735
>>5644738
Good luck indeed, because supposed 'cultural differences' are meaningless and trivial.
>>5644737
Sorry, I don't consider holidays and bad folk music valuable enough to halt global communication for.

>>5644755
Of course you'd say that as an American. The land of the cultureless.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

>>5644755
>Good luck indeed, because supposed 'cultural differences' are meaningless and trivial.
that's probably because Americans don't have a culture so you'll never understand anyway

>>5644762
>no counterargument

>>5644766
>ignoring the counter argument means no counter argument
stay /lit/

>>5644755
Why would culture in any way halt global communication?

>>5644769
Since when is a baseless attack an 'argument'? Did I open this discussion by saying Yuros are fags, so they would never understand why I'm so right?

>>5644766
Your argument was literally "culture is stupid". I have no idea what you're even doing on this board, since its obvious that without culture you can't appreciate literature.

>>5644777
not really a baseless attack he was making a point: america has very little 'culture' aside from being a land of excessive opposites, rich and poor, smart and dumb etc. that's really all you get from a visit

>There's no cultural difference between us any more. We are all one.
Get out more. Talk to people more. We are NOT all the same.

>>5644784
I've never been to Germany and I couldn't give a damn about their culture, but I can enjoy Goethe just fine.
>>5644786
Have you ever been there, hmm? I'm guessing you bought some crap at Times Square at most.

>>5644795
>>5644795
>I've never been to Germany and I couldn't give a damn about their culture, but I can enjoy Goethe just fine.

Goethe is part of German culture. You just enjoyed a part of German culture. Congratulations.

>>5644799
But it still exists regardless of whether a unique German culture exists, correct? Then why fret over homogenization when nothing of value shall be lost?

>>5644813
not the other guy but I have to disagree there, Goethe as we know his work would not exist exactly as it does now if not for a distinct german culture. His life experiences, values, interactions with people, perspective etc. all contributed to his works and would inevitably make it different from any works he may have decided to publish (if at all) had the world belonged to a single homogenised cultural ideal.

>>5644813
But without German culture it never would have existed in the first place. Think about how many other unique works of culture and art never would have existed if we were completely homogenized 100 or 200 years ago. Think about how many future unique works will be lost because of today's "global culture" eliminating cultural uniqueness.

>>5644691
Although I'm essentially against Nationalism I think this is a beautiful way to look at it. Unfortunately, it's usually is built on a belief in the superiority of one culture, not mutual respect towards others.

>>5644840
>>5644845
Let me ask you something - was Goethe a great author because of how German he was, or because he wrote well? The cultural influences don't mean shit, all that matters is prose. And a lack of 'cultural uniqueness' won't erase that.

>>5643784
>which writers should i read to do better at this?
Lets be honest, you only put this in the OP in an attempt to make the thread seem even tangentially related to literature and not politics.

>>5644717
>>5644795
>>5644813
>Please, all this "B-but I'm just defending culture!" shit you people spew just reads as "I hate foreigners and get butthurt easily."
>I've never been to Germany and I couldn't give a damn about their culture, but I can enjoy Goethe just fine.
>But it still exists regardless of whether a unique German culture exists, correct? Then why fret over homogenization when nothing of value shall be lost?

Wow, you just went from "Culture defenders just hate foreigners" to "Foreigners have nothing worth respect" in a mere few posts. That's impressive.

How is nationalism any different from royalism at the end of the day? Both are predicated on the idea that one person is better than the other based on whose vagina they came out of. Nationalism is just royalism with more vaginas.

>>5644901
People who want to separate cultures 'for their own good' often say so to disguise their bigotry and to keep immigrants out. No culture is 'unique' aside from trivial differences, all national cultures have huge overlaps in what's actually important. Pick up a book sometimes, you fags. Last post, by the way.
>mfw living in the 24th century with Picard and Riker, where all human culture has become one, resulting in a golden age of technology, art, and exploration

>>5644789
But most of you are, though. It doesn't matter what petty religious or political tribal agenda you're parroting or what color your skin is, you're still part of a pervasive and homogeneous mediocrity.

>>5644858
that sense of superiority is kind of necessary. what's the point of a people being involved and interested in building and contributing to a great and unique culture if it will really just be inherently the exact same as any other culture out there. relativism is toxic.

>>5644953
Exactly, the problem is that the superiority a population is encouraged to feel towards the rest of the world has historically been a propaganda device to expand borders and make bank through warring with and exploitation of other nations. Having a country filled with people united under a flag and believing that they have a noble, common destiny is extremely useful for the people running that country. It's just identity politics encouraged by the state.

I'm not even denouncing Nationalism, I'm just saying that particular comic is an over-idealistic representation of it and not a valid argument or defense.

>>5644858
What you're looking at there is anti-globalism, not nationalism.
Also there's a difference between what most countries call multiculturalism and the assimilationist melting pot ideology of America.

>>5644934
>MFW Even Star Trek has their Prime Directive

>>5645035
Well, it says in the picture "nationalism", and I always see the image spammed alongside other /pol/ defenses of nationalism.

>>5645002
not necessarily. you're conflating love of one's country with unquestioning obedience to the leaders of one's country. A quick glance at most of America, for instance, will tell you that that isn't true: nationalism is not just unwavering allegiance to whoever is currently ruling, it's more like what you said, a belief that we're all heading towards a noble direction, etc. Politicians are obeyed to the extent that they fulfill this sense of broader, country-wide purpose. That nationalist rulers can be corrupt is not sufficient proof that nationalism inherently lends itself to corrupt rulers. Rulers can also be just as manipulative and controlling of a population, perhaps even more so than under nationalism, by convincing them all that national identity is bunk and we should all follow some transcendent global ideology.

>>5645048
Fair enough. It's not something I'm very passionately opposed to, but I do think it's generally negative. It definitely serves, for many people, as an excuse for ignorance of and apathy towards anything unrelated to their country.

And to use your American example, just because Americans dislike their leadership does not mean that their nationalism isn't essentially working in favor of the leadership they are contemptuous of. State propaganda works as a separate, self sustaining entity - "have pride in your country, support the troops, secure values x, y and z" but it's all ultimately directed and controlled by the government, and they encourage the aspects of nationalism that are useful to them.

Basically, Billy-Bob Jenkins hates President Obama, but Billy-Bob pays his taxes and believes strongly in Americanism, so he is still supporting the Obama Administration and the rest of the US government he is professing so much hate for.

Obviously I'm simplifying it, but I want to make it clear my dislike for nationalism is more than just "flags and uniforms are baaaad"

>>5644858
>Nationalism means the superiority of one culture to another

Maybe if you're a shit-flinging stormfag, actual rational nationalists like Jared Taylor know it's not like that at all.

>tfw paleoconservative masterrace

>>5645046
I'm saying it's not defending what it thinks it's defending