/lit/ - Literature

I want to say communism but I guess that's not quite right
P-proletarian internationalism

Mikhail Bakunin "God and the State"

>>5597458
Are you organising where you're at, young workertan?

>>5598401

>>5598401
working towards a non-political method of dissolution of borders

>>5598419
The proletariat knows no border to its solidarity. Remember to join and fight to transform your bourgeoisified trade union

>>5598431

There is no proletariat.

>>5598437
1) We can walk down the road and I will show you people exchanging labour, who do not possess means and tools of production, for a wage
2) No social relation is totalised, all social relations are developed in mixed and uneven ways
3) I can show you partial, prefigurative, and sectional rejections of the wage and value form

Given 1, 2 and 3, the criteria for a proletariat existing are met.

>2014
>not being a nihilist

>>5597449
>Identity politics are tearing us apart.
m8 pls I am openly politically incorrect all the time and I barely get shit for it.

>>5598417

Why aren't there more Communists who spurn identity politics drivel designed to divide the proletariat? I think the 1960s was the worst thing that has ever happened to leftism in the West.

>>5597449
Sartre discredits humanism in Nausea.

>>5597449
Accept Jesus, please.

>>5598543
Because Communists have no idea how the world works

>>5598549
Sartre is a recognized fuckhead

>>5598543
Because people bought the idea that Stalin was very very evil and the USSR a dystopia.

>>5597449
>Identity politics are tearing us apart
what makes you say that? Do you have any proof besides maybe a wacky satire-tumblr?
what is the problem with previously marginalized peoples creating solidarity

>>5598561
I don't like being told that statistically speaking I am part of a group that has enjoyed its rights for much longer and still to this day enjoys relative benefits in just about every sphere that contributes to quality of life due to systemic reasons and still-existing prejudices because I wear inexpensive jeans and drive an old pick up truck and have worked for all my money so how dare you have the audacity to say that I am privileged when I am not a multimillionaire sitting on a mountain of black slaves and sexy stripper women serving me caviar fuck i believe in equality that's why i'm an egalitarian and we white guys should have an equal opportunity not to be thought racist to niggers and spics who are never called racist even when they call me mean things like cracker

>>5598417
>capitalism doesn't appease would-be economic Marxists too

bet you spend money on Zizek

>>5598561

It's merely the replacement of one form of racism with another, under a utopian garb. There's nothing revolutionary in it whatsoever.

>>5598557

I can show you an infographic that makes the holocaust disappear too.

>>5598543
Look up autonomism

>>5598561
nowadays social justice is a red herring at best, i.e. when the people spouting it aren't actually disingenuous.
Its narrative is deeply flawed and has to be changed every few years (for an even more flawed one; every passing day SJW sounds more and more like conspiracy theory). It makes people fight between each other instead of fighting with purported oppressors; it's not just "muh tumblr being mean to white men", they literally fight each other all the time to verify which one of them is the feministest.
It is generally a problem of leftism movements, the inability to actually come to terms and cooperate with people who don't share your view to a T, but in this case it gets to a ludicrous point.
In public discourse the only thing that this creates is marketable buzzwords and hypocrisy. Showing that you're not "a bigot" and saying the right stuff about wimminz on tv is more important than actually believing whatever you're saying, which actually hurts the ideology but hey, we can make gifs of this geeky celebrity saying platitudes to plaster all over the net, that's a fair trade off.
tl;dr it's bullshit just get on with it

F U C K H U M A N I S M
U
C
K
I
T

>>5597449
Globalization and egalitarianism.

Ethical egoism is the answer.

>>5597458
>Proletarianism
>not identity politics
lel

>>5599763
Cancer and AIDS?

>>5599763
But anon, people aren't equal. If that were true there wouldn't be someone to decide on globalisation and egalitarianism.

There is only one solution, really. gas the kikes, race war now

>>5599779
>race
>not identity politics
lele

>>5599772
>But anon, people aren't equal.
That's why we have politics.
>If that were true there wouldn't be someone to decide on globalisation and egalitarianism.
That's why social/identity politics is such a hot topic today.

>>5599781
>That's why we have politics
It's also why we have classes

>>5599769
Farage pls go.

>>5599784
Exactly.

>>5599780
I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Class struggle and the problems associated with identity politics are seperate but not hierarchical, can't abandon one for the other

Identity politics are tearing us apart.
What is the answer?

Laurie Penny and Joy Division?

>>5599815
3/10, lisa.

>>5597449
Technological-Egalitarian-Utilitarianism

That is ideally what should be implemented but really it is too elaborate for humans of this age.

Truth
>A new community is being built in Germany and it is our most beautiful goal and aim. Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else. It is the luck to help which rewards those who commit themselves to this socialist state, and this commitment must happen every new winter. Our social welfare system is so much more than just charity because we do not say to the rich people "Please, give something to the poor." Instead we say "German people, help yourself!" Everyone must help, whether you are rich or poor. Everyone must have the belief that there's always someone in a much worse situation than I am, and this person I want to help as a comrade. If one should say, "Yes, but do I have to sacrifice a lot?" That is the glory of giving! When you sacrifice for your community, then you can walk with your head held up high.

>>5599822
Holy shit fuck off venus project redditing scientism lastman

>>5599857
That sure will work.
Protip - it won't.

>>5599874
somebody's insecure for apparent reason.

Tanks fo tellin me bout Venus Project tho phagit

>>5599897
*no apparent

anyway lastman, venus project are interesting i'm gonna check the out. tanks

u still however are a phagit tho.

Anarchi-syndicalism.
Agitation of the working class.
Solidarity among all workers.
Respect for the dignity of all human beings and the right of every worker to put his labor into what he chooses to put it into.
The immediate recall of all politicians and the reorganization of all existing institutions to benefit the working class, rather than the capitalist class.
The expansion of the working class to include all men and women.
The seizure by the working class of the means of production.
The abolition of the media circus, and the exposure of the Spectacle for what it is.
The ending of institutional discrimination based on race or gender.

>>5599897
Utilitarianism is part of the reason things are so bad. So is techno-utopian ideologizing. You are scum.

>>5597449

i went into barnes and noble the other day to go poop

by the bathroom there's a "philosophy" section

i saw a book there, can't remember what it was called or who it was by, but i know it was recently published

it was about how the "language creates thought" meme is kind of overblown and actually people around the world with different ways of speaking think very similarly

i thought that might have interesting applications to this whole identity politics "you dont have my life so your opinion doesnt matter" discourse

>>5599952
It's more of an intercourse than a discourse.

>>5599952
>the "language creates thought" meme...
...has been empirically disproved by science. (Fucking idiots, I'm surrounded by them...)

>>5599946
>Utilitarianism is part of the reason things are so bad
No, the concept of Utilitarianism interpreted by people in positions of power are why things are so bad. The concept itself is not inherently flawed, nor is any other concept. It is the human involvement with the concept that leads to a problem.

>So is techno-utopian ideologizing
You have chosen to look upon the idea with pessimism.

I have found and developed (along with other people such as the creator of your so called Venus Project) an ideology that reduces a great deal of issues within our societal structures. Yet the general population is too stupid or emotionally driven to realize it's potential benefits to us as a species. Not to mention the current political structures in place prevent the proliferation or education of such ideas.

Tell me, what is your ideal solution.

>>5599968
Anyone who thinks the 'general population' is too 'stupid' for their ideas to work if implemented is blinded by arrogance. If your solution doesn't account for the fact that most people aren't, and have no desire to be, physicists, you shouldn't be allowed to come up with solutions.
My ideal solution is >>559992.

>>5599956
/lit/ doesn't think u can know muffin. Anti-natalism and anti-realism are this board's favorite ideologies.
Science is beyond them, and because science is beyond them, they think philosophy is beyond science, and that science has no impact on philosophical discourse.

>>5599979
Or rather >>5599921

>>5597449
Translation:

>identity politics are threatening my comfortable privileged position

Humanism is just a pointless buzzword for those who can't be fucked or are afraid of political activism

>>5599994
Identity politics is class struggle for people who want to suck up to the ruling class by parroting its ideology.

>>5599997

The Black Transgender Muslim ruling class?

>>5600002
The capitalist ruling class.

>>5599979
So you're saying the 'masses' are not stupid? Please.

It does. It assumes that the masses will essentially become parasites. No longer will they be needed for manual labor (because that's where the 'Technological' part enters ito play). No loner will they cause any disturbance because all their necessities such as housing and food are provided to them. They will become pacified either by the prospect of entertainment, or creative expression of their own free will, or education. The stupid may have the choice of continuing their existence in incessant drabbles of entertainment or actually becoming a productive member of society.

That is my solution. Pacific the stupid and enrich the intelligent.

>>5599780


ahah monsignor, but it is *correct* identities.

>>5600004

That doesn't make any sense.

Identity politics doesn't negate class struggle it strengthens it by raising awareness of capitalistic injustices that go beyond economic class

>>5600007
The 'masses' deserve to be treated with human dignity.
How is any of that a solution? Those are all the problems we have today. You're just parroting naïve progressive bullshit and pretending that your callous attitude is justified because you mean well. I guess that's what utilitarianism boils down to, though.
Have fun telling yourself you're above the masses, though.

>>5600007
Pacify the stupid*

>>5599993
>The seizure by the working class of the means of production.
So you're giving stupid people very complex tools?
Who will later run these means of production? There obviously has to be some form of leadership which will eventually become "the higher class"

>The abolition of the media circus, and the exposure of the Spectacle for what it is.
uuuh people like media? you can't just spontaneously erase the media when the working class enjoys the consumption of it

>>5600015

>ideology doesnt ideology ideology it ideologies it by ideologying ideology of ideology that ideology

>>5600015
And yet it has absolutely failed to do anything about the ruling class itself. Most identity politicians don't care at all about the class struggle, and prefer to point to white men as a group rather than the particular white men and members of other sex/race categories who control the media, the government, the corporations, and the media-state-corporate complex as a whole.

>>5600020
uuhh? Remember the term egalitarianism? that means everyone has the opportunity to rise above their positions. I just even said that they have the possibility for education. If they don't want it then it isn't my fucking business. The possibility will always be there for them to become better.

I will, because to get anywhere in life, or to even move a single muscle one must apply a label. You hunger? what is hungry? What you hungry for? Where do you go to? What food will you get? All these require explanations. You don't just make a choice without any conscious thought put to it. There are certain attributes that I have advantage over in comparison to the masses. That's like saying I don't have more money than the masses because 'fuck the sytem mayyyne'. No, I do have more money and that is one method of positioning myself above the masses.

>>5600023
The working class' enjoyment of things that are pacifying it doesn't make those things good.
Your insistence that the working class consists entirely of stupid people betrays a massive amount of arrogance on your part.
The media is an institutional entity, and as I said, all institutions should be reorganized to benefit the working class, which should expand to include everyone.

>>5600044
Having more money doesn't make you better than anyone, faggot. I hope you choke on liquid gold.

>>5600046
no shit it doesn't but what else are you going to do to people who are stupid? let them manage the logistics of food supply?

No shit man I gotta generalize when we're dealing with over 7 billion people. Both you and I understand my assumption so play along.

What do you mean by benefit the working class?

>>5600049
where have I said better?
I said places me in a higher position.
I can and am going to purchase a $1500 computer to play high end games, does that mean any faggot can do that? NO.

>>5600061
I mean benefitting the working class as opposed to the capitalist class.

>No, I do have more money and that is one method of positioning myself above the masses.
You explicitly said that having more money is one way of positioning oneself above the masses. Have fun with your bread & circuses.

>>5600037
Well to be fair, orthodox Marxism hasn't really done anything about the ruling class (yet)

It's true that identity politics identifies white men as having more power, yet it recognises that this privileging has roots in social structure, and is not the exclusive form of power.

Most identity 'politicians' aren't Marxist either, but Marxism nowadays readily accepts that there are unequal power dynamics that go beyond economic class position

>>5600064
you still haven't mentioned how it's going to benefit them.

no fucking shit dude. Did you even read the example I place ONE LINE AFTER. Since I have more money than the average joe it means I can spend it on luxuries that are not afforded to other individuals that have less income. holy shit how can you not understand this? IT'S THIS SIMPLE.

MO' MONEY = MO' SHIT

>>5600071
Orthodox Marxism is more coherent than identity politics (which can accurately be called a form of cultural Marxism) and doesn't split the proletariat against itself like identity politics does. I don't talk about politics with tumblr feminists because I know they'll see me as an oppressor and nothing more, even though I'm just as much a slave to the wage system as they are.
Identity politics is a circle-jerk where everyone cries and nobody ever gets off.

>>5600076
Controlling the means of production is necessarily beneficial.
Your money-fetishism is infantile at best.

>>5597449
Global and galactic post-scarcity techno-utopia.

>>5600082
What..? So what are you going to portray on the media everyday?

How the masses are in control? how the bourgeois are no longer a threat? Who wants to listen to that 24/7???

Again you're not tackling the point i'm making, your tackling me. You completely disregard what I said neither stating your agreement or disagreement to my point. Damn nigga debate like an respectable adult.

>>5600080
Identity politics doesn't necessarily split the proletariat, it's entire philosophy revolves around solidarity, as does a revolutionary Marxism.

The only splitting of the proletariat occurs if people refuse to acknowledge privilege, (which is almost unanimously accepted in sociology/anthropology/history etc.) and thus implicitly support the injustices that constrain LGBTQ people or PoCs etc.

Embracing identity politics as a Marxist is another valuable way of critiquing capitalism

I think:

The individual recognizes that there are things amiss in the context of their own lived experience.

Usually this is generalized to the sense that things are amiss in the context of society in general.

Power prevents the true nature of these general problems from being realized (for example, worker exploitation).

So the individual extends their own individual problems as being those of society in general.

>>5600090
I'd personally like to see movies, TV shows, etc. that deal with substabtial issues and address relevant topics while providing useful information to the audience, as opposed to the insubstantial morning news shows and poorly written special effects-based touchy-feely liberal Hollywood schlock we currently have.
Which point am I ignoring?
>>5600092
In my experience, and I'm speaking only from my experience with people I call identity politicians, criticism of the capitalist system itself always comes second to criticism of straight white men. As a straight white man who wants to be involved in the discourse, it often seems like I'm being denied a voice by people who don't share my privilege. By this, I mean I've literally been shouted down or ignored by 3rd-wave feminists every time I've tried to express an opinion without prefacing it with 'I believe everyone is equal' or 'I think white men are the problem.' Acknowledging my privilege doesn't help; I still have it and I'm constantly reminded of it, to the point that I'm literally interrupted by identity politicians telling me to check my privilege whenever I try to express myself about social issues. I refuse to call them social justice issues because social justice is now an empty buzzword.
Again, I'm speaking only from my experience. Yes, white men are the majority of the people in control of the means of production, but we are also not all the enemies of non-white non-men, and some of us who are aware of our privilege are starting to wish someone else would acknowledge our acknowledgement of it.

>>5600092

Posturing/10

This is garbage.

>>5600119

Second order garbage (garbage response to garbage criticism)

>>5600125
Which particular points am I not addressing or failing to address adequately?

>>5600119
So you're still going to keep movies and tv shows? Do they not only distract the masses from serious matters such as substantial and relevant news topics?

Eventually after a successful revolution (assuming) that you envision, the road of entertainment media will override serious and informative news because people want to laugh and have fun (like you said watch movies and tv shows), especially those that do not have education (masses) because they cannot conceive of such complex ideas that span beyond their personal self into topics of politics, sociology, engineering to keep them occupied.

The point that the more money you have, the more shit you can buy.

>>5600015

Identity politics are a disaster. There's no more good old fashioned civil disobedience + picketing + striking anymore.

Any kind of student politics immediately gets bogged down trying to chart a path through the jungle of "intersectionality," "ally-ship," "expressing solidarity" etc.

It's totally abstract and a complete waste of time. I don't need some kind of overly philosophical theory to explain to me the virtues of not being mean.

Politics should only be motivated by love for human beings. If it's anything else- a desire to be right, a desire to have your beliefs validated by others, a desire to control - it's doomed.

I think we should kick the non-whites out of our countries and then just leave them alone. Racism solved.

>>5599956

how did they disprove it? just out of curiosity, not tryna challenge your scientific knowledge

>>5600153
>So you're still going to keep movies and tv shows?
Yes. Why would I want to eliminate an art form?
>Do they not only distract the masses from serious matters such as substantial and relevant news topics?
>only
No, not only. They can also be informative about news topics. Something can be entertaining and informative at the same time, and something can be of superior quality while being understandable and useful to the 'masses,' as you so arrogantly choose to call anyone who doesn't have as much money as you do or the will to become whatever you think everyone should be.
Another revolution would be desirable at the point you describe. Reorganization of institutions should be a perpetual process. There is no reason not to want to improve government and provide accurate and substantial information to the public, for whose benefit any legitimate institution should hold as the highest and singular good.
Yes, more money can buy you more shit, but that's a non sequitur. My point is that the working class should have the opportunity to make more money, and also that the acquisition of dosh and the perpetuation of the cycle of capital isn't the end-all be-all of the greater good of society.

Does anyone have good sources where I can read about the 'theory' that the New Left shit was actively encouraged by the elites to drive a wedge between leftist academics and regular workers?

>>5598519
>not being an absudirst

>>5599921
>>5600119
Also I want to know, who are these working classes? To what extend do we limit the inclusion of workers that do not qualify as a working class member? What will automated technology do to the working class?

You're using (I assume) early 20th century ideas in a 21st century period of human beings and societies. It all feels very old fashion and non-applicable to today.

Also how do you feed everybody while the means of production are being seized? You would have to develop maps and logistical supply lines to differ from the norm. What will happened to all the companies or organizations that depend on the materials being provisioned by the current means of production? Won't they become defunct which ill subsequently make many working class peoples lose their jobs. Are you using violence to seize these means of production? How you do assume control of the means of production without breaching legal matters and coming in contact with the police or the military?

I think you REALLY need to revise what actually qualities as a means of production because that shit is a lot more complex then early 20th century industrialist economies. Not to mention the multinational corporations that exist would mean that you need to cause a global revolution where their base language isn't English. jesus man.

>>5600179
Also I'm not opposed to entertainment. You're misinterpreting me if you think I am. I'm opposed to bad movies and bad journalism, and the undue amount of influence celebrities have on public opinion.

>>5600179
>My point is that the working class should have the opportunity to make more money

which I stated far back

>Remember the term egalitarianism? that means everyone has the opportunity to rise above their positions. I just even said that they have the possibility for education. If they don't want it then it isn't my fucking business. The possibility will always be there for them to become better.

>>5599987
Antinatalism and science goes hand in hand.

>>5600196
The working class is anyone who is economically exploited by someone else. The capitalist class is anyone who makes a living by exploiting others' labor for profit.
The means of production are whatever mechanisms keep society running.
The companies are middle-men between people and pay. They should be eliminated entirely and replaced by workers' collectives. If people starve, well, that's too bad, I guess. It's sort of something that happens during wars, evolutions, etc. It isn't necessarily avoidable, and if it is, it should be avoided, of course.
If there's a revolution, of course the revolutionaries will come into conflict with the state. That is even less avoidable than starvation and infinitely more acceptable.
Why should a revolution for the good of all people not be global? Why should it not be democratic, in places where democratic institutions function properly? If the state can be brought to the side of the working class, it should be.

>>5600092


>Identity politics
>solidarity

pick one

>>5600210
Egalitarianism is a broad concept that can and should be incorporated into any good ideology. I don't see what it has to do with anything. Equality of opportunity should be made an actual reality, not just a presumed reality.

>>5600237


the only problem is that ostensibly meritocratic ideas of 'equal in opportunity' have a disturbingly consistent pattern of morphing into 'equal in leveling' out in the wild of actual discourse and politics.

>>5598587
>don't like being told that statistically speaking I am part of a group that has enjoyed its rights

so do my rights end where your feelings begin?

>>5600227
I'm am genuinely baffled at "economically exploited" what does that mean...??

Are we saying dishwashers to accountants to mechanics are all economically exploited??

What is the difference between companies to workers collective?

You're not embedding the technological advancements of the modern era into your philosophy. What if (and they slowly are) replace and automate working class jobs? What will you do then? You seem to put too much emphasis on humans and not enough on technology when there is so much untapped potential there to improve our lives.

>>5600237
Technological-Egalitarianism-Utilitarianism (damn I really need to condense the name) provides the equality of opportunity

>>5600282
What if MACHINES* (and they slowly are) replace and automate working class jobs?

>>5600282
Anyone who is paid less than their labor is worth is being exploited economically.
A company can be a worker's collective and vice versa. A company should be run by the people who work in it.
Technology should improve the lives of people, and a human being's need to produce things according to his or her own will shouldn't be constrained by technology. If machines can automate the most menial and thankless jobs, that should mean that people have more time to do more meaningful things themselves (labor includes things like art). Expecting technology to improve people's lives just because it's technology is juvenile.

>>5600250
Then something should be done when that happens. Freedom of speech and freedom of labor should both be universal rights and shouldn't be made a political issue.

>>5600290
That's not a solution, though. The system you're advocating is the current state of affairs.

Only Stoicism can save us all.

>>5598527
Being politically incorrect as much identity politics as being a SWJ. You didn't get his point.

>>5600378
>u have to follow my ideology because it's natural and ur behaviour is unnatural so its bad

>>5600403
It's funny because this post is actually pure ideology

>>5600403

Stoicism does not force others to believe in it, although I believe that if everyone was a Stoic we would live in a society that is more tolerant, kind and progressive.

>>5600421
Quote me on this:
The one who identifies with his own bullshit is doomed to stay in the sewer, because he is afraid to clean himself up.

>>5600433
Critique of ideology can become pure ideology.

>>5600422
My point is that Stoic philosophy depends on a lot of shitty flawed reasoning.

>>5600422
>Stoicism, the state philosophy of the Black Iron Prison
>Promoting tolerance, kindness, and progressivism

>>5600446
>Black Iron Prison
What is this? 52 A.D.?

>>5600455
Yes.
What, do you think the Empire ended or something?

>>5600436
What is critique of the critigue of ideology if the latter was pure ideology?

>>5600455
Have you read VALIS?

>>5600465
Critique of the critique of the critique.
At some point you have to accept that you can't escape ideology.

>>5600438

Stoic Philosophy doesn't depends on pure reasoning in the first place. All ideology has leaps of faith in it

>>5600468
I have. Along with How to Build a Universe that doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, and parts from the Exegesis.
A Maze of Death also seems to take some of his ideas surrounding the Black Iron Prison and puts them into a sci-fi context.

>>5600469
Sure, but when your identity becomes more important than the actual truth you're setting yourself up for being wrong.

>>5600489
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that you can write off a reasoned argument or an entire philosophical system just by calling it ideology.

lol. the only people it tears apart is mra neckbeards.

>>5600214
Not really, no.

>>5600494
Sure, I'm just saying there are people who don't care about the truth and confuse any argument against their view as an attack against their feeling of self. It's not about what right but about what should be right, resulting in mental gymnastics to justify that ideology. I also think this gets increasingly worse the stronger you connect your identity with your opinions. If a huge part of your life is build upon a fallacy for instance. I guess it's more comfortable to mantain a state of ignorance than to face reality, because the implications of being wrong are existential.

I honestly have no idea what the answer is. But, since your post is rather sparse, allow me to elaborate on the problem.

Modern activism is rapidly descending into a contest to see who can be the most hateful. The focus has moved completely from helping the oppressed to destroying the oppressor, which is extremely counter-productive. Generally, an oppressive body becomes oppressive by means of majority. This means that an activist MUST win the support of oppressors if they want to cause oppression to cease. Meanwhile, most modern activists will actively resist support from perceived "oppressors," to the point where there's no reason for one in power to ever help those who aren't.

This gets even worse when intersectionality is considered. To use a slightly strange analogy, there is a philosophy in software engineering called "The Unix Way." Essentially, it states that the number of possible bugs in a program will grow exponentially as said program attempts to accomplish more tasks. This means that an image editing software can also edit movies will have greater potential for failure than if it were composed into two smaller programs, one which edits images and one which edits movies.

The same principal can be supplied to social justice. It is no longer okay to say "Some men like dicks, get over it," as that might be considered transphobic or non-inclusive of lesbians. A white gay male who has gone through intense suffering at the hands of bigots must constantly be reminded that he is still white and thus disadvantaged compared to non-whites in some situations. When you combine this with hatred of the oppressor, you get a curious situation where everybody is to be hated. There is not a single person who does not posses privilege in at least one context, and, since privilege is considered the ultimate evil, everybody is evil.

The overall result of this is that the culture of activism in America is actually actively harmful to those it is trying to help. Gay activism is taken over by radical feminists who believe that gay men should be content with their "male privilege," while feminists groups can't speak out against the atrocities in countries like Saudi Arabia because it might be "islamaphobic." Instead, the only thing to do is scream at straight, cisgendered, white men, in the process removing any chance you might have had at changing the minds of real bigots.

>>5600539
yeah why didn't the slaves seek support of the slaveowners

treat everyone fairly and also be constantly harsh to yourself

>>5600559
Well, the abolitionists, including freed slaves, supported by some runaway slaves, sought the support of the wider population as well as the state and federal government.

Not a great parallel though, bringing up another problem with identity politics. It causes the public to focus entirely on the identified group's opposition to some generalized oppression (the patriarchy, the white power structure, capitalism, etc) instead of a recognizable oppressive entity (legislature restricting women's right to vote, Jim Crowe laws, trade monopolies, etc).

>>5600539
Good post, I agree. Though I think you meant:

> be reminded that he is still white and thus advantaged compared to non-whites in some situations

You wrote "disadvantaged". That specific problem was actually introduced to me by an AP History teacher in high school. He was gay, but introduced and heavily critiqued identity politics to our class. I think he recognized that our particular demographic leaned left and was worried that the dumber among us would be easily infatuated with modern liberal bullshit.

>>5600475
Stoicism has very dated ones that can't be defended very well any more. Sure, there is wisdom to be found in their writings that are very relevant, but Stoicism as a comprehensive systematic philosophy doesn't work any more. What remains is lifestyle advice.

>>5597449
Sentimental petty bourgeois humanism is a harmful ideology.

It kills the struggle and teaches people to be servants.

>>5600635
>all dat empty ideological rhetoric
lel

>>5600044
>>>/middleschool/

>identity politics isn't politically pragmatic
says the white man

Also lol at having this thread on /pol/-lite.

>>5599811
Gender and sexuality, caused by the family, used to produce labour power.
Race, caused by the employer, used to hierarchialise proletarians in production.

It has always been about class, read Federici.

>>5600635
Radical left pls.

>>5598519
You must be 14.

>>5600092
>privilege
Is rejected by the academic community as a vacuous term. Look into "oppression" and "exploitation" which actually have some currency.

Nuclear launch codes

>>5600535
>Sure, I'm just saying there are people who don't care about the truth and confuse any argument against their view as an attack against their feeling of self
There are also people who don't think about things other than the fact that ideology gets in the way of truth and are content to write off people who don't constantly use the word 'ideology.'
Disregarding Stoicism as pure ideology is pure ideology.

>>5601230
>Race, caused by the employer
lol wut
>Implying race isn't a product of genetics and culture, the synthesis of nature & nurture

>>5601272
I gave my citation mate.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: identity politics are the result of people fighting systemic oppression on the system's terms. Meaning, they acknowledge the legal oppression of certain groups of people, but never question the grouping itself, which was perhaps the more drastic effect of the legal framework.

>>5601206
>says the white man
how do you know the race and gender of the poster

>>5601366
it isn't exactly a mystery what type of retards post here

>>5601242
There's nothing immature about nihilism. It's one's response to nihilism that matters.

>>5601366
You sure got me.
>omg BTFO
B-b-but I just assumed!
>kek what a retard
Humiliated on a message board! Why didn't I confirm the race and gender of OP on the anonymous message board!
>look at this shill
I can never show my face again.
>what a sperg
Oh God.
>REKT
Why did I open my big mouth?
>being this buttmad
Next time I will ask the OP's race and gender and take their answer as being made in good faith. I have learned my lesson, anon. But will I have the confidence to ever post again?

>>5601392
>white males are generally of below average intelligence

>>5601490
>being this buttmad
Indeed

>>5601366
>>5601490

>>5600372
>Anyone who is paid less than their labor is worth is being exploited economically.
Objectively define the value of their labour then.

>>5600395
Yes I did, the point is that im directly contrary to the sjw line and they don't really get mad about it, so IP are clearly not 'tearing us apart'

>>5601490
Wow you got fucking demolished by like seven words and no punctuation

>>5601692
>Objectively
Look at the cretin

Labour's value is defined as its cost of reproduction in Marx, quite simple. But with 24 hours, labour can produce 4 or 8 or 12 hours at the same price.

On a semi-related note, does anyone happen to have the infographic of /pol/ & /lit/ approved literature? Thanks in advance.

>>5602029

>>5602059
Thanks a lot.

>>5597449
Anyone who identifies as ANYTHING should be killed, no exceptions.

>Identity politics are tearing us apart
>What is the answer?

If everyone was a Muslim (Sunni NOT SHIA) then we would all have one identity, so identity politics wouldn't be a problem.

>>5602151
You better pray europeans never reach this notion.

>>5602029
>>5602087
Sauce for images?

>>5602178
Architect Leon Krier, I believe both of these come from the book 'Drawing for Architecture', a collection of his polemic drawings about the state of modern architecture. He's written some interesting books on architecture and city planning as well as on Albert Speer's architecture.

>>5602190
Thanks, it sounds interesting.

White privilege is as senseless construct as a privilege of being born in rich family or privilege of being born in Oregon. It exists, yes, but it holds no moral or political implications.

And if one invokes it as a ground for any political action or moral judgement should be beheaded as a dumb shit without knowledge of principles of natural law.

>>5598417
>capitalism is a system that literally makes everyone happy and gives them what they want
What a terrible dystopia.

The real problem is universal suffrage...

I'll see myself out.

>>5600092
>privilege
literally meaningless. not all white people are privileged. not all straight people are privileged. you need to start speaking in concrete terms about concrete people or you'll never get anywhere.

>>5600156
>Politics should only be motivated by love for human beings. If it's anything else- a desire to be right, a desire to have your beliefs validated by others, a desire to control - it's doomed.

This. 2k years after Plato and still almost nobody gets it.

>>5604088
hm, so it's meaningless, but some people have and some don't? tell me more

>>5600185
there has always been a major wedge between the academics and the workers. look at how Lenin presented himself to the people.

>>5601206
the irony in this post is thick enough to be cut with a knife

>>5604088
So what you're saying is that concrete people are the ones who really have privilege over non-concrete people? Those concrete bastards.

>>5604093
>>5604106

wipe the smug looks off your faces and read >>5600600

>>5604109
i was just making a dumb joke about concrete people, homes

not trying to say that racism is or is not real or whatever were arguing about

>>5604106

As a regular member of the National Association for the Advancement of Concrete People, I claim authority on this subject. Non-concrete people are undeniably in a better superposition than us concretes. It's basic sociogeology. To say otherwise would require rock-hard proof; and I'm afraid your assertion lacks a keystone.

>>5604116
>As a regular member of the National Association for the Advancement of Concrete People, I claim authority on this subject. Non-concrete people are undeniably in a better superposition than us concretes. It's basic sociogeology. To say otherwise would require rock-hard proof; and I'm afraid your assertion lacks a keystone.
11/10, but also 'wat'?

>>5598417

>but when the third world starts demanding its rights

Uh oh, here come the sand farmers.

>And the capitalists run out of people willing to be exploited

Never gonna happen. People do whatever the hell they have to to stay alive and escape poverty. There's always gonna be someone willing to get the bottom dollar.

>>5604128

Not bad huh? I'm gonna go jerk off now.

>>5604133
>There's always gonna be someone willing to get the bottom dollar.
No, no there isn't.

>>5604139
>>5604116

What a champ.

>>5604139
>I'm gonna go jerk off now.
you go girl.

>>5604133
>Uh oh, here come the sand farmers.
Like the ones who kicked trained soldier's ass for years in the sixties? Or the ones who have whole countries change their security policies to avoid having planes crashing into buildings?

>>5598587
I can't tell if this is supposed to be a parody of "but think about those poor put-upon white people being called racist" thinking or if this is some completely sincere dumbass.

Ishmael Reed talks about impoverished whites all the time. He's a black "SJW" who doesn't like poverty to be exotified.