/lit/ - Literature

willful ignorance is not entertainment

>>5598647
I was never a fan of that type of fantasy setting. The Middle Ages seem shitty to me, so I don't get why anyone would use it as the theme for their escapism.

>>5598671
Its not this. Middle ages make for a great fantasy setting. Its just that political intrigue and killing off characters all the god damn time are nothing than gimmicks that can only run their courses and lose interest

>>5598647
Because he writes for teen?

>>5598676
>Middle ages make for a great fantasy setting
Why? Because of horses, dragons, and shit? These are all things you can feature in a more unique setting without defaulting to grimdark.

Because House of Cards > Game of Thrones, even though I haven't read books from either series.

I bought the books because I thought, hey I like the show, so the books must be even better
Waste of fucking money. I'd rather read airport genre fiction. The show is miles ahead of the books

>>5598688
House of Cards is for little children. The only right way to watch the show is in a high chair while they spoon-feed you.

>>5598680
with that pretentious vocabulary? i don't think so

>>5598980
You're just saying that about the show because it has lots of sex added, and Martin can't write sex scenes for shit.

>>5598980
>House of Cards is for little children. The only right way to watch the show is in a high chair while they spoon-feed you.
Shakespeare is for little children. The only right way to watch his plays is in a high chair while they spoon-feed you. Breaking Bad is the masterpiece of our times.

>>5598666
Willful ignorance can allow entertainment however. I'm not advocating it, but lowering yourself in a literary sense doesn't rule out the possibility of enjoying it.

>>5599011
Did you miss the parts where Spacey, literally turns to the audience and explains what is going on, as if anything in that show isn't glaringly obvious? Like some sort of live version of cliffnotes.

>>5599031
Don't forget his hammy southern accent and dialogue, which is always stuffed with bullshit colloquial expressions that don't actually exist outside the imagination of white liberal television writers in LA

>>5598647
Because they should be busy enjoying real life history at maximum.

>>5598682
The Middle Ages aren't grimdark. They were a time when exceptional personal freedom was combined with a sense of higher purpose, something we've never managed to achieve since then.

>>5598647
Why isn't Martin able to write to people over 16?

>>5598647
Because then people would claim paedophilia

>>5598647
Why does /lit/ circlejerk over mediocre, popular writers instead of discussing good ones?

>>5598647
sucks to be 16 and have all the big kids think youre a dork, doesn't it?

>>5598676
>Its just that political intrigue and killing off characters all the god damn time are nothing than gimmicks that can only run their courses and lose interest
It's either that or Deus ex Machina, which is more gimmicky. I don't see the problem with killing off major characters

>>5599031
Honestly, I need him to explain what's going on like almost 50% of the time. The show's politics can be really confusing for a non-american.
But you would probably consider me a baby now that I think about it.

>>5599031
He explains what is happening, which means it's for children. Ok

>>5598676
>and killing off characters all the god damn time are nothing than gimmicks
Talk about missing the point.

GRRM is pleb incarnate.

>>5599031
Do you understand the purpose of soliloquy? It's not to 'explain what's going on'.

>>5599335
I feel like Game of Thrones is going to be one of those things like Nolan's Batman that people treated seriously for a while but is eventually going to be seen as fedora trash

>>5599335
>>5599339
You people really are embarrassing.

Anything that can fluster a bunch of idiots to the point where they constantly feel the need to bitch about it is superb in my books.

>>5599339
>I feel like Game of Thrones is going to be one of those things like Nolan's Batman that people treated seriously for a while but is eventually going to be seen as fedora trash
Eh, it already is.

SUNSET FOUND HER SQUATTING

>>5599339
>fedora trash
What on earth is this even supposed to mean? /lit/ is never so pathetic as when it discusses these books. This trend of attacking these books like raving lunatics is all rather amusing.

>>5598647

It's decent fantasy whose tv series has been hyper sexualized for the sake of commercialization.

Martin as a writer has various flaws, but it isn't a complete hack. I enjoy them , but there are better books

>GRRM thread
>/lit/ starts chimping out

every time

>>5598647
I hate his writing style, reads like a movie script.

>>5598987
Are you kidding? Teens love that shit.

>>5600737
yeah, he was a writer for television prior to ASOIAF.

Explains the cliffhangers at the end of his chapters.

>>5600744
>t. expert of demographics

>>5598682
Middles Ages are overuse for fantasy because they're the last setting before firearms. Firearms killed fun battles

MAYBE because of the lengthy descriptions of characters LITERALLY TAKING A SHIT

>>5600750

actually you're right teenagers are masters of sincerity

it's not like they're the single driving force behind the industry of faux-profound bullshit like the fault in our stars or the movie adaption of the great gatsby

>>5600805
basing your hatred for a series on one small passage makes ypour etire point invalid.

ASOIAF has its faults and strengths, maybe you should list the real problems instead.

mediocre prose
all characters post ASOS are bland
violence for the sake of violence
badly written sex scenes
etc.

the shitting passage pretty much became a meme, citing it to prove your point discredits you instantly

>>5600823

why would i read all 3000 pages of one of his fucking bullshit doorstop pop fantasy novels if i know for sure that i will at some point re-encounter that literally gag inducing shitty passage

>>5600840
Yeah, not even knowing a thing about the books you critisize makes you seem so much smarter.

God, i hate neo/lit/ so fucking much.

Instead of discussion we now have meme-spouting idiots with no real knowledge of the stuff they want to discuss.

pathetic

>>5600783
> Firearms killed fun battles
Fullmetal Alchemist is IMO a decent steampunk fantasy that happens after Middles Ages.
Inb4: >>>/a/.

>>5601127
The problem is't the degree of technology employed by the author, it's the political stuff.

ASOIAF only works because of the feudal system.

It's meant to be a more or less accurate description of medieval european life.

>>5598680
>>5599139
>Martin doesn't write for adults
>his books have more than 1 k page
>they have tons of sex
>tons of violence
>drugs and alcohol everywhere
>adult atmosphere and themes

>>5601880
>Sex drugs and violence is real mature guise!!

This is what fourteen year olds actually believe. Harry Potter is 1000 pages.

>>5599053
what the fuck no you would just be farming all day everyday lmao

>>5601880
adult themes = kids themes

they make halo lego sets

>>5599053
Literally the most underrated post on 4chan in the 2014th year of our Lord.

>>5601880
>>his books have more than 1 k page
>>they have tons of sex
>>tons of violence
>>drugs and alcohol everywhere
>>adult atmosphere and themes

I know tons of teens who would love to read books like this.

>>5602167
most of them will be discouraged by the sheer volume of his books

>>5599053
Youd either be pushed into some shitty war you dont have anything to do with, dying of disease, farming, or being treated like shit by your guild superiors. It wasnt that great, faggot.

Is Timeline by Crichton comparable to ASOIAF?

>>5600857
True. Does anybody have an explanation for this? A while back i took a month or so off /lit/ and when i came back it was total shit. Every Marx thread was spammed and discussion was down by 50%.

pic related

>>5599259
As an American, I don't understand what you mean since the politics aren't anything near a Democracy. Care to elaborate?

the lamest thing never has schadenfreude.. everyone else does. Basically, George R.R. Martin is overwhelming for a large number of people, text-wise. I mean his books are like 700-1000 pages long!

The fuck does "at a maximum" mean? I'm 20 and I enjoy ASOIAF, it doesn't have the most literary merit or profound themes, but it's entertaining and well written enough.
Plus you have to give GRRM points for being one of the few authors after Tolkein to make a world that is as richly detailed and consistent, that takes dedication.

>>5604716
It's okay to enjoy books for entertainment value only.

I think what most people (me included) find annoying are the parts of his fanbase who try to push his works down your throat as a future classic/the next Tolkien/whatever.

>>5598980
>>5599031
Why are lit populated by retards like that? Dumb people who can't understand and appreciate basic artistic methods?

>>5604745
because being pretentious is easy, being actually educated is not

all boards related to the different mediums of art are like that, especially /mu/ and /tv/

>>5604730
Definitely not, even as a what could be considered a fan, I wouldn't say that ASOIAF will be relevant or as popular 10 or 20 years down the line.

Because as the novels progress, they become increasingly boring. He is writing to fill pages, not to tell a story.

>tfw based Steven Erikson completely shits on GRRM.

>>5602226
no they won't. all popular book series are huge nowadays. kind of funny that the less a person has to say, the more pages he needs to say it.

>>5599666
>rather amusing

>>5605806
>all popular book series are huge nowadays

just because they sell well doesn't mean people actually read them

>>5608252
There tends to be a correlation

>>5605527
This.

He started the series pretty good, back in the late 90's when he was still able to write interesting characters.

The prose was still at least tolerable, and it was pretty clearly structured.

You can even apply basic Dramatic Structure (exposition->rising action->climax->falling action->catastrophe) to most of his early story lines, with the 3rd book being the huge finale.

Now he seems to resolve the series using the same method, by starting a new dramatic arc.
The little difference this time is, that the characters he introduced in his later works are almost exclusively terrible, and the few original characters who survived the original "Drama" feel like relics among bland, one-dimensional characters.

He completely lost the thread after ASOS, and this is also the time his prose became terrible (Daenerys shitting herself and the horribly executed sex scenes are all from his last two books).


ASOIAF is basically two dramas in one, the first half being good, the second half being terrible so far.

>>5601880
You just described the film and video game industry targeted towards teens.

>>5605527
I've been noticing this too. Finished Feast for Crows last week and the majority of it was just mundane fluff for characters who I couldn't care less about. Not much actually happened.
Hope Dragons picked up the pace a little over in Essos.

>>5609826
No, it does not.

ADWD is full of mundane politics too.

AFFC and ADWD are the exposition for the next few novels, they are the ones supposed to be intersting again (i wouldn't count on it, some of the preview chapters were dull).

To be honest, AFFC was even a bit better than the 5th one, Cersei's and Jaime's chapters alone made the books tolerable, book 5 consists of people travelling or doing political stuff no one cares about, and the character development from the 4th book is missing.

>>5609640

I agree. He seems to just be applying the same formula to everything (which can arguably work in many cases), but without the ability to switch it up, it becomes filler filler filler.

>>5609826

I will not be finishing the series. I have since moved on to bigger (no pun intended) and better writers.

Although to be fair, my wife and I enjoy the show.

>>5609896

Second time chan has deleted my trip from my posts.

Post was me.

>>5609909
who fucking cares

>>5609923

Not you, apparently.

>>5609896
Well, he kinda expected to have the same thing (i.e. Drama arc) work twice, and it would have, but he rushed his characters in the end.

If you didn't know it:

He wanted AFFC to come out two years after the 3rd one, he planned a 5 year gap between the two parts of the series, leaving him time to let ASOS sink a bit.

He scrapped the time gap after he was halfway done, and had to rush the rest.

It really would have been better the way he intended it, and you have to keep in mind that writing the 4th book twice makes you lose interest as an author.

I think he is mentally done with the series, he ragequitted after scrapping the 5 year gap.

The rest that followed is fan-service.

>>5598682
the entire genre isnt grimdark thats just your shitty bias

>>5599339
its not the trashy romance novel we need but is it the trashy romance novel we deserve perhaps

>>5600644
Can you please point me in the right direction to some better, well written, fantasy?

>>5602226
Little kids were reading long Harry Potter books

>Politics in fantasy

>>5611207
Supposing you've already read LOTR, Malazan Book of the Fallen.

>>5601880
Since when are sex and violence mature?
That is like saying that Elfen Lied is deep.

>>5614310
they're adult themes when they feature adults doing them. are you stupid?

>>5612422
terry pratchet does it well

>>5614282
yes i have. and thank you for the recommendation and thank you also for not being condescending. that's hard to come by around here

>>5601880
>books have more than 1 k page
>they have tons of sex
>tons of violence
>drugs and alcohol everywhere
>adult atmosphere and themes
is the joke that only kids, well teens, would think that this stuff is what it means to be an adult, and is adult literature? Just like all the kids who want to play Call of Duty precisely because it's rated Mature, and therefore is only for mature people such as themselves?

>>5614316
So american realism is written for teens since it's the polar opposite?

>>5599053
>The Middle Ages aren't grimdark. They were a time when exceptional personal freedom was combined with a sense of higher purpose, something we've never managed to achieve since then.

what are you on about? how was the medieval period a time of "exceptional personal freedom combined with a sense of higher purpose,"?

>>5598980
>I'd rather read airport genre fiction.
it IS airport genre fiction.

>>5614916
>what are you on about? how was the medieval period a time of "exceptional personal freedom combined with a sense of higher purpose,"?
Read a history book, you fucking tard. I'm certainly not going to lecture Western History 101 to illiterate you on fucking 4chan.

>>5614950
I'm pretty sure he means [[airport genre] fiction], not [airport [genre fiction]].

I.e., that 'books sold at airports' is a genre (you know, the paperbacks with red-black covers and huge embossed titles about superagents fighting the islamic threat), and that he'd rather be reading that instead of GRRM.

>>5614957
translation: I lack even the slightest justification for my claims

ASOIAF died with Ned.

>>5614310
Just that you were not able to get the implications and the questions the story raises doesnt make Elfen Lied bad.
You are the problem.

>>5615059
I don't need to 'justify' shit that anybody with even the slightest, most cursory knowledge of European history already knows.

>>5615229
translation: i am a big gay faggot with no dick

>>5615237
>>>/b/

>>5615237
Your jimmies seem to be rustled. Maybe a history of medieval europe in comicbook form will set you at ease?

>>5615229
but you can't just make unsupported claims

you haven't even stated how the the middle ages was a period of "exceptional personal freedom combined with a sense of higher purpose" let alone backed it up with sauces

William I was a badger

don't believe me? "lol red a histry book fagit its comon knolage"

Post the diahrrea part

>>5609854
I'm borderline between both arguments here. Only about 1/10 through ADWD, but all of the iron island stuff in AFFC was boring and could have easily been just "Then the islanders were like shit we're fucked let's bend the knee to King's Landing".
It felt like a loss of focus on what matters, and he's just going to need more books to resolve it all and will never finish.

>readeing that fat fuck

>>5612422
>Hating on the entire concept of Gulliver's Travels
Look at this pleb