/lit/ - Literature

>>5551280

Ben Affleck wins the battle for librul upvotes I guess, which is to say, he was more skilled at being belligerently self-righteous about "muh racism"

sam harris seems totally correct especially about that fucking lying faggot Reza Aslan

They're all idiots.

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/isis-willing-executioners

Ben Affleck just yells and interrupts everyone to make himself feel superior. It's ridiculously obvious that he's the least intellectual person there while he's busy thinking it's the opposite.

>>5551338

im more worried about deceivers like Reza Aslan than well-meaning bleeding hearts like Ben Affleck

>>5551280
>implying Sam Harris is wrong

Name one country where Islam holds power that isn't marked by a tremendous amount of oppression and tyranny.

Name a country where muslims are in minority where they aren't in conflict with the state and want their Sharia.

Name one muslim country that has made any major achievement the last 1000 years.

It's a fucked up religion is what it is. Yeah, you hit me with that "Golden Age of Islam", because boy, that sure lasted long.

>>5551365
>>Name one country where Islam holds power that isn't marked by a tremendous amount of oppression and tyranny.
>
>Name a country where muslims are in minority where they aren't in conflict with the state and want their Sharia.
>
>Name one muslim country that has made any major achievement the last 1000 years.
turkey
indonesia
malaysia
are you even trying retard

>>5551332
>>5551343
do you just believe everything Harris says? what has Aslan lied about?

>>5551376
>turkey
>indonesia
>malaysia

have you been to those countries or know anything about them? they have insane laws and customs.

>>5551376
>Turkey
Bet them kurds really fare well

>Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darul_Islam_(Indonesia)

>Malaysia
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/11044123/Malaysia-militants-plotted-Islamic-State-inspired-attacks.html


I mean are you even trying.

>>5551376
do you just believe everything Aslan says? what has Harris lied about?

>liberalism

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>man gets assaulted with frenzied feels and spittle

>victim retorts by referencing research and analytically refutes each partition of Asskek's inane gibberish

>Asskek calls pulls the race card, then makes fantastical false associations

>literally frothing at the mouth, his spit is even blemishing the cameras

Why does /lit/ defend Ben Asskek? He totally embarrassed himself. It worries me that many of you evidently share the same moron cognitive style. The guy literally made no logical points at all, at least none that related to the presented arguments. Yes, racism is bad. Yes, imperialism is bad. Yes, unjustified war is bad. None of that had any remote relationship to what they were discussing, he just threw words in their mouth then went on a wild tangent. The guy was suffering from hysteria and ought to apologize to Harris and Maher.

>>5551380
More Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahedeen_KOMPAK

In October 2005 KOMPAK made its highest profile single attack to date, in which three Christian schoolgirls were beheaded and another injured. The attacks were reported internationally, eventually drawing criticism from the Papacy in Rome.[9] Large scale police presence was raised in the region in an attempt to stop revenge attacks escalating the violence.[10]

>>5551376
>Indonesia
>Muslim minority

They have more Muslims than any other country.

>>5551378
Not that guy, but:

Malaysia has laws no less crazy than the US (death penalty), and Malaysia outperforms the US in science, with one of the best economic records of all Asia.
Turkey is very secular, I can't think of any crazy laws. Only recently have they moved towards less secularism, more Islam, because they want to power their country using Atatürk spinning in his grave.
Can't say anything about Indonesia.

>>5551280
what a sore loser. Affleck's a dork and not nearly as smart as he thinks he is but he's right on this one

>>5551365
do it with "nationalism"
or "white European countries in the 1800s"
or "countries with governments"

it's a cultural problem that is arguably worsened by having a religion that can have bad impulses stuck to it but there's no particular reason Christianity couldn't have the same bad shit stuck to it (and has!) if the cultural conditions were right

bleep blarp blurp blump if you handed someone the Koran along with 10 other major religious texts their chance of picking Islam as the one that would be attached to horribly oppressive states would be no better than random

>>5551388
>that feel when this shit is all over my Facebook and people think Affleck is a hero

It's a fucking shame to see first hand the stupidity that is so rampant in the world and not being able to do a single thing about it. Can't dumb it down enough for these people to understand logic.

>>5551397
Yeah, I can tell you that even with full on rampant national socialism Germany made some pretty significant scientific achievements during the middle of a world war and a holocaust.

What do you want?

And the imperial nations of the 1800s achieved even more.

>>5551388
Ben Asslick was shouting louder, and that's the most important thing in a debate.

>>5551397
>bleep blarp blurp blump if you handed someone the Koran along with 10 other major religious texts their chance of picking Islam as the one that would be attached to horribly oppressive states would be no better than random

You seem to miss the pattern that muslims are shits wherever they go, in whatever cultural climate, even their own, while other cultures seem to fare fine. Everything from Buddhism to Taoism to Christianity to Judaism.

>>5551389
That's a splinter group that has nothing to do with government policy. That'd be like me using that case in Kansas where Christian's took out that abortion doctor as an example proving that the U.S. is a Christian theocracy.

You clearly know nothing of Indonesian history and are just looking up shit on Wikipedia.

>>5551390
>>5551389
>>5551376


Malaysia has a dual law system that still uses sharia law, so homosex/sodomy is illegal, traps can get arrested for being indecent.
Homosexual acts between males are illegal and penalties may include long jail sentences and corporal punishment. Homosexual acts between women will be considered “gross acts of indecency” and jail terms apply.

Their drug laws are insane, even accidentally taking in some narcotic pain killers to their country can lead to a death sentence.

>Turkey

45% of women there are abused/raped by their husbands and the police don't do shit, because of "muh culture"...only recently have women been getting polled and speaking about how insane islamic turks are. It's ridiculous

Forced marriages are still a thing in turkey, but women are given a right to divorce (lol good luck) within 5 years, after which they lose that right.

>>5551411

I had an ex-muslim friend from jordan who went on and on about how his people are lazy, disorganized and primitive.

He taught me a lot about how muslims actually are and why they are still so primitive in 2014.

>>5551338
gee what a new and original take on the matter, havent seen this opinion before

>>5551406
> with full on rampant national socialism Germany made some pretty significant scientific achievements

as a German: name one. Most scientific achievements by Germany from 1920 to 1930 were done by Jews, once they had to leave German physics collapsed.

All significant inventions like Zuse's Z3 were already being invented before the Nazis came along.

The V2 couldn't hit anything for shit. The U-boot XXI was an improvement on earlier designs, and it's no wonder that an economy aimed towards only war builds bigger and better weapons.

>people literally think some shit religion is the problem and not the people

>>5551425

Engima Machine was pretty badass.

Enigma had 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 (158 quintillion) different possible settings/codes.

lol if you pick "Islam" over "other countries bombing the shit out of it" as the reason the middle east is fucked up

>>5551431
>shit religion is the problem and not the people

>Islam promotes abusing gays and killing apostates
>Muslims put their beliefs into practice and abuse gays and kill apostates

Ignore the religion guys! Ignore the man behind the curtain!!! Nothing to see here, it's just some "crazy" outliers that are to blame

>>5551436
The first Enigma was invented in 1920, long before Addie came along

>>5551425

http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/

Wernher Von braun wasn't a jew, he was a top tier genius level rocket scientist.

>>5551449
>http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/

>Nazi Germany was the first country to ban vivisection in the world, enacting a total ban in April 1933. The measure to ban vivisection was a huge concern and was put forth to the Reichstag as early as 1927. High ranking Nazis such as Hermann Goring, Heinrich Himmler and Adolf Hitler were very concerned about animal conservation, particularly pertaining as to how animals were butchered. Most current laws in Germany, and indeed the world, are derived from the laws put forth by the Nazi Party

My fucken sides, thank you Adolf.

>>5551442
>Islam promotes abusing gays and killing apostates

ever read the bible, dumbass?

>>5551443


The Nazi Enigma Machine was on a whole other level. Far superior to the early models.

>>5551453
>http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/
>The law enacted by Hermann Göring on August 16, 1933 banning vivisection survived only three weeks and it was revised by a decree of September 5

>>5551456

Bible doesn't promote killing apostates. Does it?

Also what's your point?

>>5551442
>blaming an abstract model instead of the people putting the model into practice

real smart

>Ham Sarris obliterates Christianity
>Murrican Christfags get mad as fuck
>Contrarian agnostics post fedoras like crazy

>Ham Sarris builds moral framework without the need for a god with genius neuroscience and philosophy.
>Murrican Christfags get mad as fuck
>Contrarian agnostics post fedoras like crazy

>Ham Sammich shits on Muslims
>Murrican Christfags clap their new idol.
>Contrarian agnostics forced to clap Ben Assdick as the pinnacle of American intellect.

>>5551406
Are we using science then as you benchmark of "progress"? Because if so, you're excluding the entity of fucking Pakistan, and the nuclear physicist who developed their atomic weapons. Shit, one of their guys even got a Nobel for it. India has had massive achievement in agricultural methods due to the contribution of scientists, both Islamic and not.

>>5551453

>“An absolute and permanent ban on vivisection is not only a necessary law to protect animals and to show sympathy with their pain, but it is also a law for humanity itself…. I have therefore announced the immediate prohibition of vivisection and have made the practice a punishable offense in Prussia.

>Until such time as punishment is pronounced the culprit shall be lodged in a concentration camp.”


Hitler was a humanitarian, but since he lost the war the Allies painted him into a monster. Surprised?

>>5551442
>>5551365
A "golden age" for islam is scertain to arise again. The recent conflict is going to cause a split within the religion, seperating the more extremist and the relatively subtile belivers.

We might end up with a superreligious country and one where religion still takes a rather high place but does not control every aspect of peoples lives and where people arent discriminated for beliving diffrently.

I am rather certain that this conflict will be the begining of a new era for Islam.

might be that i am wrong, but i strongly doubt it!

>>5551462

I blame them too, but the ideology is not innocent or immune from criticism.

>>5551461
>If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.

Deuteronomy 17

>>5551468

When you are raised by insane people in an insane country to follow insane customs are you really to blame?

I pity muslims like I pity North Koreans who think Kim Jong Ill is a Demi-God...they don't know any better.

>>5551411
>You seem to miss the pattern that muslims are shits wherever they go
Except for when they aren't shit, you'll just ignore them. Everything religion you've listed has had horrific acts committed, and has had cultures that have been fine.

>>5551470

That's not an apostate. That says to kill believers of other religions like Hindus and Buddhist cow worshippers.

Problem?

>>5551394
>Malaysia

>Corrupted as fuck
>more rights for Malays than other races
>economy is good coz of Chinese minority

It is like you don't live in SEA

>>5551420
You had one friend tell you something and you're basing an entire world view of over a billion people on this?

>>5551474

>Except for when they aren't shit, you'll just ignore them

Yes, when they ignore their religion they usually aren't that bad. Like when they ignore the commands to kill apostates, beat homosexuals and deprive women of rights.

But they are also being non-muslim in those times.

>>5551479

It's not just muslim people though, it's the middle-eastern race itself...you gotta think big picture.

>>5551467
>subtle believers

No. Religious moderates don't exist. You either follow the religion completely (eg. extremist) or you don't follow it. You don't pick and choose whatever the fuck you like and roll with that. You don't say you're a Christian then ignore 85% of the bible. Religious moderates (or subtle believers as you refer to them) are people that can't make up their mind so they just half-ass commit.

>>5551462
>implying these people would act like that if there wasn't an abstract model for them to base their behavior off of

Nigga are u srs

>>5551478
>USA

>Corrupted as fuck
>More rights for whites than other races
>economy is good because war

>>5551477
Worshiping another God is the same thing a renouncing Christian faith.

>>5551442
Here's a quote often used how Islam is aggressive, I obviously can't do the whole fucking Koran, but you get the idea.
>"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Oh my God, that's terrible! This statement could in no way be in reference to war with other tribes in 7th century Arabia! This translation could in no way include misleading notes about translated terms like fitna. Fitna, which could mean anything from disbelief, to civil war, to oppression. And it's funny how this translation helpfully explains that Zalimun are “the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.” Because, of course, that last sentence is specifically telling you to stop fighting except against aggressors.

Just like with all historical sources, you can't just look at the text and say “it's proof that they're bad people!” Because there is a huge amount of historical context, especially with such a major document as the Quran. Ignoring this in favor of pullquotes that sound evil is stupid. It means completely ignoring how we are supposed to look at our sources critically.

>>5551487
>implying these people would act like that if there wasn't an abstract model for them to base their behavior off of

it's true, though. these people would be thugs regardless. they're just using doctrine to justify crime.

>>5551495
They have been indoctrinated since their birth. Their religion is what they base their entire ideology and actions on. What you say has zero factual merit.

>>5551482
So when Christians ignore like all the laws in Deuteronomy and Leviticus, does that mean they're not Christian? Cause if so then I guess I have to tell my family I'm not Christian anymore.

>>5551492
Except those interpretations are how current muslims comprehend it.

>>5551506
Have you eaten shellfish you two-fabric wearing beard-shaving no-gooder?

>>5551502
>What you say has zero factual merit.

literally the only thing that can make them act a certain way is themselves. the qur'an doesn't put a gun to their head. plenty of extremists come from decent families, are western educated, etc.

>>5551486
Oh, okay. I've got to take what your one friend said about the whole "middle-eastern race" and base my world view of that whole region of you friend who said that it was totes bad.

>>5551453
>Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism the destroyer. Nevertheless, the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry. Galilee was a colony where the Romans had probably installed Gallic legionaries, and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore—of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galilean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him. Paul of Tarsus (his name was Saul, before the road to Damascus) was one of those who persecuted Jesus most savagely. When he learnt that Jesus's supporters let their throats be cut for His ideas, he realised that, by making intelligent use of the Galilean's teaching, it would be possible to overthrow this [p. 77] Roman State which the Jews hated. It's in this context that we must understand the famous "illumination". Think of it, the Romans were daring to confiscate the most sacred thing the Jews possessed, the gold piled up in their temples! At that time, as now, money was their god. On the road to Damascus, St. Paul discovered that he could succeed in ruining the Roman State by causing the principle to triumph of the equality of all men before a single God—and by putting beyond the reach of the laws his private notions, which he alleged to be divinely inspired. If, into the bargain, one succeeded in imposing one man as the representative on earth of the only God, that man would possess boundless power.

Based fucking Hitler.

>>5551492


so you're saying that religions have liberal apologists that try to rationalize and justify each atrocity and insanity in their religious texts? Wow, thanks for letting me know.

I guess Islam is actually PRO-GAYs now, they love the gays, and they LOVE giving women FULL rights just like a man, and they LOVE apostates, they actually ENCOURAGE it!!!

Oh man, it was all just a matter of mistranslations all along!!! Poor 1 billion people who have been reading things out of context and "mistranslations" for over a thousand years...if only the neo-liberal apologists could teach them how to read the ONE TRUE INTERPRETATION of the QURAN

>>5551487
there still is a difference between shoving your religion into everyones face and trying to kill them and living by the words written in one of these holy books. As far as i can predict the future, and i sure as hell aint good at it, the middle east is going to be "liberated" once and for all rather soon and US-Capitalism will expand towards this rather untouched territory. Religion will still take a big part of peoples lives, but it wont hinder their advances in science and technology.

>>5551442
>>5551492
>>5551508

Christian, Jews and Muslims worship the same god.
Mohamed respected Jews and Christians!!

>>5551513

Hitler's Table talk is great.

>>5551510
Not true at all. When they are told how to live for years and years, you don't think that begins to have a great influence on them? Education on science and economics etc cannot undo religion. There are plenty of extremely talented physicists and scientists who are religious. It's been ingrained in them from the start. You should really read The End of Faith. Harris has rebuttals for all your arguments :)

>>5551521
>Christian, Jews and Muslims worship the same god.

LOL

>>5551508
So, you're saying that violence isn't an inherit part of Islam itself, but it depends how it's interpreted? So, it's almost like you can't make a blanket statement for an entire group of people that spans many countries and cultures.

>>5551509
>implying I shave my beard
Nigga, I got a babyface.

>>5551521
>shoving religion into everyones faces
>trying to kill them
>living by the words written in one of these holy books

i lol'd. the first two are in the quaran and the bible.

>>5551531
>prove me wrong!

>>5551538
Leviticus is gon stone ya

>>5551534
No. Violence is an inherit part of Islam. You don't even have no know much about the koran to realize that.

>>5551534

>it's all up to interpretation

No.

>can't generalize

If a person is decent he isn't a real muslim, because he's obviously ignoring tenents of his faith like "bash gays, kill apostates, women deserve less freedom than men...etc"

The better and better a person becomes the less he is following his religion

>>5551517
You're right, historical context and academic rigor are just liberal conspiracies to promote Islam. I'm so glad you're knowledge of 7th century Arabic and theology corrected those silly academics.

>>5551544
100% Accuracy.

>>5551541

Christian God is Good and Merciful.

Jew/Islam God is Evil and Violent, he teaches humans "eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth"..."cut the hand of thieves off"..."kill apostates"..."stone adulterers"..."kill witches"...kill people who worship other gods.

etc.

>>5551543
>>5551544
see>>5551506
This shit is going full circle.

>>5551547
>Christian God is Good and Merciful

lolwut. Read the bible. This is so far from the truth.

>>5551545

shhh..there, there...you can perform all your insane mental gymnastics on your own, no one cares.

>>5551547
>>Christian God is Good and Merciful.
>hasn't read old testament

ayyyyy Satan wanna bet i can fuck that dude's life up

ayyyy bring me foreskins

aylmao here, have a genocidal angel, he's gonna murder dem canaanites

aaaaayyyyyyyy here's free will, but now that you used it, I'm going to drown you out of spite

>>5551550

Read the New Testament it describes the Christian God (Jesus Christ).

If you want to read about an Insane and Evil God read the Old Testament or the Quran.

>>5551554

>confusing an evil Jewish Spirit with the Christian God (Jesus Christ)

kek

>>5551544
Wait so you just said that >>5551492 was wrong only because that's not how Muslims interpret it. But you're also saying that it's inherently violent from it's scripture and not because of how it's interpreted?

>>5551555
>>5551556
I was not informed there were two Gods

>>5551555
>Confusing Jesus with God

Oh you

>>5551551
>Critically examining historical sources
>mental gymnastics
Nevermind, you used a patronizing tone, who need things like facts when you have that.

>>5551547
ey lmao. dude ... Old Testament is the base of all three religions. Gods a prick in all three religions.
The only difference is that Christians belive that Jesus came and died for their sins to save all Mankind.

k. maybe Christian god is a bit more mercyful, yet Muslims also belive in Jesus, even though they dont belive that he was the saviour but just a great prophet.

Why is there so much anti-Islam circlejerking in here? I mean I expected some, but this thread is bringing it hard.

>>5551572
>why are rational people using rational logic

>>5551565

Ahmed (or Goldstein) plz go.

>>5551569

>ey lmao.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZRIW87eWI

your post was very cool and very based

will you please be my friend?

>>5551566
>>5551558

tell me how historically, throughout the ages, Islam has viewed homosexuality.

>hurr its up for interpretation man, anything goes!!! look if we twist this word here, and crank that phrase there the Quran actually LOVES GAYS and says to give them MONEY because they are great

wooohhooo anything goes in this post-modern liberal bullshit age of apologetics.

>>5551555
>>5551559
>>5551565
to sum stuff up ... their is only one god in all three religions

>>5551565
>Thinking that there is a difference between Jesus and God (God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit = Trinity )

>>5551572
It's because it's evening here in Australia, and their probably just cunts who support Abbott.

>>5551572
islam is terrible fucking religion that should be purged from the earth.

Leftist cultural relativism disgust me.

>>5551569
>maybe Christian god is a bit more mercyful

He is.

>yet Muslims also belive in Jesus,

No they don't, they don't listen to his teachings at all - they actually contradict him --and they shit on him by calling him a "prophet"

>>5551582
I didn't go through 12 years of Catholic school gibberish to believe shit like this. Source or gtfo

>>5551582
>their is only one god in all three religions

Yes each religion is monotheistic, but each religion's God is different.

For instance, Christianity has a Good and Merciful God who incarnated as Jesus on earth.

Islam/Judaism worship a demonic spirit who commands his servants to cut their penis skins off and kill all sorts of people.

In the Jewish Talmud they place Jesus in hell, boiling in a cauldron of his own shit for practicing "black magic". How can they all share the "same" God? HILARIOUS!

So Ben Afleck thinks women shouldn't be allowed to drive or speak against a man, homosexuals should be murdered, and infidels should be converted or killed. What a tolerant guy :)

>>5551581
Throughout history? Poorly, like most of the world has, altough it's varied across culture and nation. What does the actual fucking scripture say? Well that's something that actually requires intellectual work instead of taking pieces that fits a narrative you already have about the evils of Islam.

>>5551595

>So Ben Afleck thinks insane Zionists like Harris and Maher should stfu

I liked the part where he called them "scheming jews"

>>5551590
A-about the trinity?

>>5551587
People love to throw around the image of Muhammad as someone so sex-crazed that he married as many women as he could, and even made it with a little girl. What a perv!
Look, for the last time, pedophilia is not the same thing as child marriages in the 7th century. Muhammad's marriage fulfilled a very different role than what we think of as marriage today. This was an economic and political role, and this sort of marriage, with this sort of child bride, was by no means limited to Muhammad or the 7th century, or even that part of the world. For example, more than 700 years later, King Richard II of England married Isabella of Valois when she was 6 years old . This is obviously a major topic, and I'm sure someone else can comment at length about the context of this, and what “consummation” might have meant in that period.
A failure of critical thinking in calling Muhammad a pedophile is that it involves presentism in its projection of modern beliefs onto a historical figure. Not to mention the complete lack of context, both in terms of child marriage in that period, and the role of marriage itself within that culture.

>>5551599
PROVE TO ME THAT THEY ARE ONE WITH PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, PEASANT

Sam Harris is a complete dumbfuck when it comes to any topic related to Islam or the Middle East. Nobody in that group really knew what they were talking about, but Affleck happened to be right and was completely justified in calling Harris out.

He managed to hit the nail on the head when he asked Harris, "Are you the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of Islam?" This is literally what Harris, Maher, and many other dumbfucks (including some of you) believe. Unlike most clueless liberals and even the majority of Muslims, THESE learned few can see Islam for what it TRULY is. There is only one Islam and it's bad and it wants to lop off your infidel head with a scimitar. Anyone who disagrees doesn't understand the One True Islam like Harris and pals do. If a Muslim happens to be a decent person, it's because he isn't REALLY a Muslim and doesn't follow the REAL Islam.

They may be too stupid to realize it, but Harris and his ilk view themselves as keepers of Islamic orthodoxy. They may not know Arabic, be familiar with the religion and its history, or have experience living in the Muslim world, but that won't stop them from acting as guardians of what they've convinced themselves is the true Islamic vision. If someone suggests that Islam is other than what they insist it is, these keepers of the faith will rebuke that heretic with the pious determination of a learned imam.

>>5551365
>Give me examples that I will reject out of hand because I've already made up my mind!

Be honest with yourself: do you really have any idea of what you're talking about?

>>5551420
>I had an ex-muslim friend from jordan who went on and on about how his people are lazy, disorganized and primitive.

I stayed in that country for a few months and can assure you that the people there are disappointingly normal. Its most pressing problems have nothing to do with religion, or for that matter with laziness or whatever the fuck.

>He taught me a lot about how muslims actually are and why they are still so primitive in 2014.

Good thing you were able to absorb his silly opinions uncritically. Otherwise you might have felt compelled to open a book or—heaven forbid!—actually spend time among these people before writing off a billion and a half of them as savages.

>>5551442
>Islam promotes

'Islam' does nothing.

>>5551597
You don't have to support Islam to oppose Zionism.

>>5551590
>>5551593
All three religions are based on Abraham -> Abrahamic religions

>>5551588
>maybe they also shit on Mohamed by calling him prophet?
...

do you want me too elaborate this?
>>5551578
sure!

>>5551587
>applying contemporary moral standards to the 7th century
You're going to have a bad time reading European history then.

>>5551602
I would have to prove, with physical evidence, that they exist firstly.

>>5551611
dun dun DUN

>>5551596
>Throughout history? Poorly
Gee I wonder why

>What does the actual fucking scripture say?

Obviously you haven't read it. It blatantly mistreats homosexuals just like the Old Testament does.

But does it matter what it says?
With your biased agenda to justify religion and make it innocent the text becomes irrelevant, you just need to find the right words to twist and the right "context" or "metaphors" to put them in to suit your agenda.

I could read Romeo & Juliet and interpret it to be an allegory for the Illiad, words are flimsy things when you begin this insane "interpretation" game.

>>5551609
>bbbbbut there were other pedos too

No one follows their relgion

>>5551604
tl;dr

You're not edgy enough to understand the Islam.

>>5551604
>He managed to hit the nail on the head when he asked Harris, "Are you the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of Islam?" This is literally what Harris, Maher, and many other dumbfucks (including some of you) believe. Unlike most clueless liberals and even the majority of Muslims, THESE learned few can see Islam for what it TRULY is. There is only one Islam and it's bad and it wants to lop off your infidel head with a scimitar. Anyone who disagrees doesn't understand the One True Islam like Harris and pals do. If a Muslim happens to be a decent person, it's because he isn't REALLY a Muslim and doesn't follow the REAL Islam.

Replace Islam with Nazism please.
I want to hear you justify Nazism as an inherently good ideology that has been mistranslated--misinterperted--and misused by a few bad apples!!!

Oh how I wish you would justify it, and then justify every ideology known to man since all must be inherently good and just "misunderstood"!!

we just got to tolerate Islam guys :D

if you don't you're raciss :(

>>5551623
1000 ad. You know what Europe (or America ... lol) looked like at that time


The Islamic World was in its Golden Age; still organised in Caliphates, it was still dominated by the Abbasid Caliphate, with the Caliphate of Córdoba to the west, and ongoing campaigns in Africa and in India. Persia was a period of instability, with various polities seceding from Abassid rule, among whom the Ghaznavids would emerge as the most powerful.

The Islamic world was reaching the peak of its historical scientific achievements. Important scholars and scientists who flourished in the year 1000 include Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, Avicenna, Abu al-Qasim (Abulcasis), Ibn Yunus (publishes his astronomical treatise Al-Zij al-Hakimi al-Kabir in Cairo in c. 1000), Abu Sahl al-Quhi (Kuhi), Abu-Mahmud al-Khujandi, Abu Nasr Mansur, Abu al-Wafa, Ahmad ibn Fadlan, Al-Muqaddasi, Ali Ibn Isa, and al-Karaji (al-Karkhi). Ibn al-Haytham (Book of Optics), Avicenna, Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, and Abu al-Qasim (Al-Tasrif), who all flourished around the year 1000, are considered to be among the greatest scientists of the Middle Ages altogether.[citation needed]

The Turkic migration by this time had reached Eastern Europe, and most of the Turkic tribes (Khazars, Bulghars, Pechenegs etc.) had been Islamized.
//shits from wikipedia. judge if you will.

>>5551608
>All three religions are based on Abraham -> Abrahamic religions

And? You can have a similar base and spread out in different directions.

>>5551608
>>maybe they also shit on Mohamed by calling him prophet?
>...

Mohamed was a warlord, calling him a prophet is an improvement.
Jesus was an Avatar of God, calling him a prophet is a misunderstanding, a downgrade.

Christians worship a very different God than those other religions.

>>5551596
Actually homosexuality has been considered the norm in many cultures throughout history. Rome, Greece, and certain periods in Japanese history are all examples of this.

>>5551628
>>5551633
look here.

>>5551633

>islam reached it's peak in 1000AD

the whole world was at it's peak in 1000AD...the difference is the rest of the world kept progressing, Islam and it's middle-eastern people haven't.

Thanks for the update .

>>5551633
>BBBBUT THE ISLAMIC GOLDEN AGE

Yeah some shit that happened a million years ago

Lets talk about today Abdul.

>Muslims and atheist still play the dark ages card
>still playing the Christianity was anti science card

very cute.

>>5551634
its the same god. even though the religions portray him differently. he is the one God after all.

accept that you worship the same guy jews and muslims worship!


and concerning wether Mohamed or Jesus are Prophets, saints or even the Messiah
i really dont know and i am not the one the decide!

>>5551649
>>5551467
read what i wrote there. the point is that it can happen again.
-> not the religion is shit but the people in power right now -> there is a massive fucking powershift you dumbfuck.

love and kisses! xoxo

>>5551655
Countered!

>>5551627

Your entire fucktarded post is premised on the assumption that Islam is comparable to Nazism. Please leave the grown-up table until you learn how to defend your stupid beliefs without calling on Hitler to ride to your rescue.

>>5551618
>Gee I wonder why
Well it really depends, some cultures have been more tolerant (as tolerant as anyone else in medieval times, it's really hard to try and apply contemporary moral schema to the past)

>Obviously you haven't read it. It blatantly mistreats homosexuals just like the Old Testament does.
Why aren't you calling out all the Christian and Jewish cultures then?

>biased
And your's is not?

>make it innocent the text becomes irrelevant
Using context and analysis doesn't mean you apply whatever you want. You have to provide evidence to back up the claims that's why >>5551492 mentions how the words are translated from 7th century Arabic to English and what they could mean simirally Hebrem from the Bible has had fucking ages devoted to it, that's why no one is quite sure what the fuck Canaan did to Noah exactly, but most historians think, because of the invasion of the land of Canaan, that it was put in there to justify Hebrew expansion. Why? because the other shit that happened around the same time provides context. Interpreting in history isn't what you did poorly in your 7th grade English class.

>>5551655

>a genius or two every 100 years means your society is prospering and flourishing

FULL KEK BRO

Now tell us about the economic and social conditions of Christianity from 1000 up until 1700s

>>5551623
Well, except Henry VIII.

>>5551642
>the whole world was at it's peak in 1000AD...the difference is the rest of the world kept progressing, Islam and it's middle-eastern people haven't.

This assessment is based on your close and thorough reading of Islamic history, I'm sure.

>>5551656
>its the same god. even though the religions portray him differently.

>he's the same but different
>he's different

stop trying, you lost it.

>>5551658
Can't counter those dubs and trips, man.

>>5551659
you know whats funny hitler loved muslims.

Here he is with the grand mufti of Palestine.

>>5551635
No it wasn't, I can't speak for Japan. But Greece and Rome's homosexual culture was not "approving" like some of the internet implies. Particularly the act of being a bottom was a sever social stigma, and was usually reserved for young boys. But actual homosexuality in relationship for m was not approved of. But again this is what happens when you apply current moral standards to the past, it gets messy.

>>5551665
three books describing one guy written with 100ds of years in between

which God did Abraham worship?
Was it the Christian one, the Jewish one, the Muslimic??

>>5551642
>the whole world was at it's peak in 1000AD
b-but muh renaissance

>>5551623
>>5551628
No one is excusing those cultures. All people are saying is that not every Islamic culture is just like that.

hitler even lamented that europe didnt become muslim

>>5551623
You still follow their governments and other cultural procedures set in place by pedos of the past. Quit being presentist.

check out these muslim nazis, want be seeing this in your leftist history books

>>5551660
>Why aren't you calling out all the Christian and Jewish cultures then?

Because I can state a fact without having to list every fact known to man. Fact is Islam has insane and evil prescriptions and beliefs.

>Using context and analysis doesn't mean you apply whatever you want. no one is quite sure what the fuck Canaan did to Noah exactly, but most historians think, because of the invasion of the land of Canaan, that it was put in there to justify Hebrew expansion. Why?

It's a silly game. Stop playing it.
Between "muh historicity" and "muh metaphoric language" and "muh translation errors" it all becomes very nauseating and contrived.

>>5551649
Cool, what about the contributions to nuclear physics by the Pakistani's would you like to discuss?

>>5551689
quit being assblasted that you follow a schizophrenic pedophile

>my narrative is bigger than your narrative!
>implying either side won the 'debate'

>>5551671
>which God did Abraham worship?
>Was it the Christian one, the Jewish one, the Muslimic??

He didn't know about Jesus, so he probably worshiped some demon spirit.

>>5551697
pakistan shouldn't even be allowed to have nukes, you sold nukes to north korea, you are terrible people, i hope india stomps your paki ass.

>>5551671
Don't try arguing with an apologist.

They will perform any variety of mental gymnastics necessary to prove their beliefs valid.

>>5551365
>Name one country where Islam holds power that isn't marked by a tremendous amount of oppression and tyranny.
Name one country where atheism holds power that isn't marked by a tremendous oppression and tyranny

>>5551692
>Because I can state a fact without having to list every fact known to man.
Okay, so you're saying that all religion is evil and has insane beliefs?

>Between "muh historicity" and "muh metaphoric language" and "muh translation errors" it all becomes very nauseating and contrived.
I'm sorry it's too complex for you, but it turns out that history is.

>>5551668

You know what's really funny? You fold under the slightest pressure and lack either the knowledge or the resolve to post anything substantial. Spamming one-liners and pics from your "LOL STUPID MUDSLIMEZ!" folder may be the strongest sort of argument that your pea brain can muster, but that doesn't mean that you should shit up the thread with these things.

Wipe the drool off your keyboard and try again. See if you can manage to raise a point or a rebuttal without making emotive comparisons to Nazis or relying on any other deflectionary bullshit.

>>5551678

The law enacted by Hermann Göring on August 16, 1933 banning vivisection survived only three weeks and it was revised by a decree of September 5, with more lax provisions, then allowing the Reich Interior Ministry to distribute permits to some universities and research institutes to conduct animal experiments

Based Hitler, he tried to save the animals...

>>5551712
>Okay, so you're saying that all religion is evil and has insane beliefs?

No, I don't know all religions. But it's true that Islam isn't the only insane and evil religion, Judaism, some schools of Hinduism and some sects of Christianity also have black elements.

Does this make you feel better? You can't pick on one religion you gotta pick on all?

>I'm sorry it's too complex for you, but it turns out that history is.

It's a pointless game that has no answer and no objective criteria. When you start talking loosely about interpretations as if a religion is a nebulous potential that can become anything the discussion is pointless.

If you are serious about analysis, you'll quickly and spontaenously admit that Islam (and other religions duh) are full of insane and evil prescriptions. Some can be apologized away and made "metaphorical" if we are generous and want to be "nice" but others can't be.

You can't sterilize Islam completely, you can't sterilize any religion completely.

>>5551715

here are some more nazi muslim pics for ya bra :^))

>>5551712

Please justify Nazism. Apparently all religions, ideologies and systems of thought are inherently good once we "understand the other" and figure out the right "historical context"

>MFW

>>5551729

epick trole dude!!!! ;-DDD

>>5551729

why are they bowing to a chair?

>>5551735
It's the chairman of the board

>>5551710
Sweden, Norway, Denmark?

>>5551800
Secular is not the same as atheistic.

>>5551678

It's hilarious to think that Hitler used the phrase "sweet human tolerance."

>>5551800

Two of those countries have state churches ya dumb-dumb

>>5551819
addie was a nice and caring man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iuxkT-FUs

>>5551488>>5551488
>implying those factors are not worse in Malaysia
>implying those factors doesn't have Islam as one of its roots
>implying USA hdi and quality of life is equal to Malaysia

>implying implicit implications

And just to tell you where I am from

>implying Singapore isn't in top tier development because of its equality and secularism.

>>5551724
>as if a religion is a nebulous potential that can become anything

This is closer to the truth than you apparently realize it is.

>If you are serious about analysis, you'll quickly and spontaenously admit that Islam (and other religions duh) are full of insane and evil prescriptions. Some can be apologized away and made "metaphorical" if we are generous and want to be "nice" but others can't be.

Which aspects of Islam (or whatever other religions you want to talk about) are incontrovertibly evil? Unavoidably evil so that no difference of interpretation has ever existed or could possibly exist?

>You can't sterilize Islam completely, you can't sterilize any religion completely.

By 'sterilize' you mean 'make agreeable to me', correct?

Not the poster you were responding to earlier BTW.

>>5551730
>Apparently all religions, ideologies and systems of thought are inherently good

Nobody has suggested such a thing in this thread. Certainly nothing has been called "inherently good." Quit shitposting.

>>5551901

Different poster

>implying those factors doesn't have Islam as one of its roots

Feel free to go into more detail.

>implying Singapore isn't in top tier development because of its equality and secularism.

Those things are mostly incidental to your development. Your development has depended almost entirely on your ability to attract investors. You could be a Scientologist theocracy and it wouldn't make a shit's worth of difference developmentally as long as it didn't discourage foreign direct investments.

>>5551365

Kosovo.

Women and homosexuals being treated with respect is a very recent thing in the western world and somehow we act all high and mighty and try to enforce our views on other cultures.

>>5551969
le noble savage face

>>5551974

I don't even think you know what that means

>>5551985
I don't even think you know what I dont even think you know what that means means

Check if you're motivated by trendiness, if you're repeating the 'correct' things from a university echo chamber or just afraid of being labeled a racist or a bigot.

ITT: girly ethnocentrists defending islam because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside

I like Affleck's movies but man what a fucking baby he is.

>>5551376
We're all seriously just going to pretend that indonesia is some sort of Utopia with children who have gum-drop smiles ear to ear behind their veils? They just passed a law for enforced whipping of homosexuals; let's see Affleck and his ilk get behind their Strawmen after that.

Malaysia have banned Transvesticism and Transgender folk are frequently abused:

"“Malaysian authorities frequently abuse transgender women at the expense of their dignity and in violation of their basic rights,” Boris Dittrich, LGBT-rights advocacy director at HRW, said in a statement. Malaysia’s Religious Department and other state officials have license to do “whatever they like” with transgender women, he added.

The 73-page report includes testimony from 42 transgender women, three transgender men and 21 other medical professionals, legal representatives, activists and outreach workers."

Turkey seems okay, but they are currently in conflict with their huge Kurd population, and essentially want the related forces in Syria and Iraq to be destroyed. This generally points to a large amount of problems in the Middle East that you could say are caused by the Islamic religion.

>>5551365
>Name one country where Islam holds power that isn't marked by a tremendous amount of oppression and tyranny.

Germany, France, Nethelands, Sweden, Norway, UK

>>5552190
so funi

>>5551413
The point stands that they're Islamists.

what part of ideology don't you people understand?

>>5551599
God three persons in one substance.
>>5551608
Jesus is the incarnation of God in Christianity. As such, he is God.
In Islam Jesus, like Muhammad, is just a human who received and revealed the Word of God.
There's a difference. If you don't grasp it you aren't qualified to comment.

>>5551659
They're completely comparable. Any belief system is comparable to any other.

>>5551806

At what rate do americans murder innocent civilians of other sovereign states compared to islamic fundamentalists? Compare the amount of iraqis killed by americans to the number of apostates and homosexuals killed by islamists

>>5552329
Does the US murder iraqis on the basis of reinstating the kingdom of heaven in the middle-east? Did I miss something?

>>5552329
The US had to remove Saddam from power because of WMDs doe

>>5552334
Why do intentions matter? Innocent people are being murdered by murderers, who are murdering for either God or the State. Neither cause is more justified than the other and each has the other on its side.

>>5552338
You forgot le spreading democracy

>>5552356
Le oil
Le freedom
Le military-industrial complet

>>5551489
It's not, never being a member of islam isn't even apostasy in Islam, you have to be born into religion or convert to be an apostate

>>5552345
Oh you naive liberal. Don't you just inherently realize that those muslim children and the elderly deserve drone
strikes (A-A LEAST WERE NOT U-USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS LIKE T THOSE MUDLIMS!!!)

Terrorists are SO EVIL that we have to abduct suspects with little evidence and fly them to cuba to torture and humiliate them indefinitely and without due process!!!

This guy is good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pjxPR36qFU

How to be a Democrat: Disagree with Republicans, point for point.

How to be a Republican: Disagree with Democrats, point for point.

It's just two sides of the same coin.

>>5552467
I hate Bill Maher so much. I love when he gets rekd

>>5552479
>Misconstruing Liberalism and Conservatism as Democratic and Republican

Not too good buddy

white people act like they figured it out after over a millennium of barbarism and pollution and war and pestilence and oppression.

like the rest of the world should drop what they are doing and emulate NATO members.

we have convinced ourselves that christian democratic capitalism is the one and only way to live. there is no foresight or hindsight. the western world is myopic and self-righteous. we forget about the travesties that took place by our hands and that continue to occur to this day.

>>5552519
This is about American politics. 'Liberal' is a codeword for card-carrying member of the Democratic Party. Affleck talks the party line. Sam Harris is a professional rib poker.

At the end of the day, everyone in this fine country is ready to invade for oil, regardless of where they fall on inconsequential smokescreen issues like abortion and gay marriage.

It's a lie that we have any choice other than heads or tails on the same damn coin.

Affleck BTFO hard, what a fucking faggot.

>>5552378
Whether or not they deserve them, war is inevitable. People will always kill each other, denying that is as bad as denying that religion and ideology can encourage it.

>>5552521
the west isnt a theocracy numb nuts, its secular, we have freedom of religion, you can get beheaded in saudi arabia for having a bible.

Harris has always been worryingly full of shit about "Islam".

There's over a billion of the fuckers, the idea that there *wouldn't* be some hardcore assholes in the mix is pretty funny.

Certainly Islam plays a role in many objectionable situations in far-flung parts of the world, but it does so largely as a magnifier, rather than as an engine unto itself. I've never seen anything to persuade me that Islam is doing work that Christianity or Buddhism or Shintoism etc mightn't do in similar circumstances.

Worry about terrorism? Sure. Worry about Islam? Meh. If it was as bad as Harris and Maher and their ilk make out, we'd already be dead. Like I said, there's over a billion of the fuckers.

>>5552521
Yeah but the difference is that our bloody past is just that -- the past.

>>5552693
Lolol

>>5552695

Indiscriminate drone strikes are A-OK because our violent past is behind us. Get with the programme, hippy.

>>5552700
well by that logic the allies should have left hitler alone because using violence to stop violence is le wrong

>>5552725

Well by that logic the word "indiscriminate" must have stopped meaning anything.

>>5552730
they're not indiscriminate, that is pure hyperbole on your part

>>5552739
>they're not indiscriminate

"In a speech last year at National Defense University (NDU), Obama promised the U.S. military would take precautions while conducting drone strikes in places like Afghanistan and Yemen to keep civilians from being killed. But the White House says those rules will not be in effect while U.S. warplanes and missiles hit Islamic State targets."

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/civilian-casualty-guidelines-for-us-drone-strikes-not-applied-to-bombing-in-syria-and-iraq-141008?news=854470

And that's ignoring the dubious efficacy of those guidelines, particularly in light of the Hellerian definition of a legitimate target.

>>5551280
Harris has been blown out since day one

>>5551280
>Guys it's totally ethical to drop nukes without provocation if we just assume we'll get attacked
>Also I'm not a warmonger

>>5551280
>Americans using the word liberal
>"guys it's just a -coincidence- that when harris talks about muslims he's exclusively talking about brown skinned folk, he's totes not 'racist'!"
>Ben Affleck is dumb, so Harris is right
>Guys someone told me a mozlem ate a baby, they're all really horrible subhumans look at muh stats it's a number wow, science

>>5552521
>Do you want to read more from Chad's Diary Excerpts From His Freshmen Year

>Push Yes or No

>>5551593
1/10 for responses

Stay out of Somalian Genocide

WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS DOING ANYTHING

Intervene in Islamic State Genocide

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING

>>5551388
You're not wrong about Matt Damon's best friend, but you lost me at apologizing to bill maher.