/lit/ - Literature

>>5499464
>Why don't people change their views when I beat them in a debate?

The trick is to not 'beat' them but to educate them. If they're cool, at most they'll play with your ideas. If they are extremists, they'll cut of your head.

>>5499464
Are you arguing with religious people? They don't listen to reason.

>>5499464
People won't agree with someone they see as a hostile combatant. They will change only for those they see as friends, who are on their side.

you where arguing not debating.

>>5499464

>i am just trying to help but people insist on being stubborn

irony/10

>>5499464
Define "Right"
Define"beat"
define "Best"

I'm not at all surprised that you get people who disagree with you often. And i'm even less surprised that you have no idea how complex and indeterminate reasoning actually is.

>>5499612

How so?

>>5499647

You are being stubborn on helping, in fact you are trying to prove you right rather than helping them by the things that you are saying.

Helping others isn't about facts, it's about rhetorics, so Aristotle's Rhetoric is a must read for you

>>5499676

What I mean is that you could have a good point but you are just trying to prove it right rather than persuading them to analyze it for themselves

>>5499464

Because debates turn into arguments and once people entrench themselves on one side of an argument they're more focused on proving you wrong than they are on discussing an issue and reaching a new conclusion.

If you want to change someone's mind about something you need to discuss it with them in a manner in which both of you are willing to acknowledge flaws in your own arguments and engage with one another's points completely.

That's just on things that can actually be argued about on an evidential basis though, it's pretty stupid to debate morality if you want to change someone's mind because it's incredibly subjective and heavily based on people's underlying beliefs.

I never bother arguing ethics or morality, I think it's pointless.

>>5499612
Not irony.

Because you're actaully abd at debating and just insist on your points instead of constructing new goals with the other person
Read Socrates.

>>5499492

>>5499722
Go fuck your mother whilst shoving a bible up her ass simultaneously!

>>5499734

>>5499692
first point was good
other two need some work/omission

>>5499464
Probably because you're a megalomaniac dork who doesn't realize that you're actually not proving anybody wrong.

You're also not trying to help people, you just like beating up on them for what you perceive to be their faults, while totally ignoring your own.

Even if other people do have problems, who gives a fuck? If they're fucking up their lives, whatever, let them. That's less competition for you.

OP, you are arguing with people without first having established the rules for argumentation. Everyone has different values, having grown up in different cultures and having lived different experiences, so in order for a debate on any moralistic standpoint to be effective, you and your partner must first agree upon what values you find important, in what order, and with what weight.

For example, in your alcoholic's argument, you two agree that health concerns take priority, followed by emotional attachment to alcohol, then finally social health while being addicted to alcohol, and that these concerns have weights of 5, 3, and 1. You rule that you can provide more compelling arguments in favor of physical and social health, while your partner can provide more compelling arguments in favor of emotional attachment. At the end, you agree that you won six points and your partner won three, and if your partner is logical, he will rethink continuing his addiction to alcohol.

However, this kind of structured model is only possible with people you know well, since this will take a lot of time and involves much social dance. I would argue that since you have no hope of changing the behavior of strangers anyway, this shouldn't matter. But again, you must always be careful not to get too emotionally involved in the debate, for the person can always decide to act against the ruling for whatever reason.

>>5499644
I'm gonna have to agree with this guy. You see Op, there is this thing called perception. Everyone see things differently. Going out of your way to tell people they are wrong is not the way to convince them of anything. It's just gonna piss them off.

>>5499742
your sister's pussy is wrecked like a slashed corpse

>>5499795
edgy

>>5499771
Quality of this post fell off towards the end:, up 'til then it's very sound; apply Ockham's Razor next time.

>>5499804
lol, thats the best part im just saying shit but inevitable the "edgy" and "fedora" are incoming, which leads me to say more shit because i like making you think that posting fedora or edgy memes makes you win the internet, i have fun all day long with osiers like you.All i want is for the fedora mem to die, thats all,.

>>5499824
>i like making you think that posting fedora or edgy memes makes you win the internet
lol but you getting mad at a shitty meme does make me win the internet
>All i want is for the fedora mem to die, thats all,.
>being this much of a pathetic no life loser nerd and getting mad at internet pictures
lmao
.

>>5499824
hahah ayyy lmaooooo he's 15 >>5499835
TOP FUCKING KEK

>>5499832
no
.getting mad at unbelievable stupidity, wagon jumping, john green loving faggots, they should gas the lot of you. as long as you understand how banal you and you r kind are.

>>5499857
>being this fucking mad on the internet
lmao no life
>projecting this hard
lel

>>5499846
sure, because "cunt" delineates all that, right. so smart you are

>>5499868
u replied to a guy who made fun of u
u cant hide it
stop
ur 15

>>5499846
>>5499824
UNDERAGE B&

>>5499824

>s-stop i'm not a f-fedora pls

>>5499857

>how banal you and you r kind are

Sure you are a gentleman of sorts

>>5499857

>>5499925
Literally reddit. Kill self
>>5499868
You do it too

>>5499868
>>5499857
>>5499824
>>5499795
>>5499734
Hey dude, I found your youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOuJ93sIog

>>5499946
s-s-senpai!

>>5499946
>All those autistic /b/tards in the comments

>>5499754

Rereading it, I agree.