/lit/ - Literature

>>5488643
>book
It's a pamphlet.

I recommend reading a wide variety of critiques and analyses written by diverse intellectuals and scholars, if you want to find out.

who says theres somwthing wrong?

>>5488643
Is this really how the title is translated for English-speaking countries?
What about the Communist PARTY bit?

Accordig to M&E it was outdated within their lifetime. "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" and "Value Price and Profit" are better starting points.

>>5488663

>>5488643
It advocated explicitly violent revolution with no clear plan or end goal once the capitalists were dead or imprisoned. If you want to find a program for communism, you--quite strangely--won't find it there.

Which is not to say that it's not worth reading, or that Marx and Engels in general are not reading (Marx definitely is, especially the Manuscripts of 1844 and Capital). This is their agitprop book, and it's not nearly as good as the philosophical and economic foundations for it.

But again, if you're looking for anything deeper than "after the revolution, we'll still just go to work and work but the dumbass capitalists won't be there," you're not going to find it. An oversight, intentional as it may have been, that caused some pretty big problems in Russia.

>>5488643
It's basically an agenda for lazy shits.

In it even Marx himself acknowledges that the Burgeoisie developed separately from aristocrats and by its own hard work.

Then for some reason I'm supposed to be mad at them because "ablohblohblohh muh workers revolution".

>>5488643
Nothing. But keep aping and your masters will cookie you, maybe.

>>5488706
>even Marx himself acknowledges that the Burgeoisie developed separately from aristocrats and by its own hard work
That's the very definition of the word burgeois you retard

>>5488687
>An oversight, intentional as it may have been, that caused some pretty big problems in Russia.
Oh come on!

First of all, Russia doesn't have big problems. _You're_ going to have problems once Russia gets through with you.

Second of all, you're an idiot if you think that anything that happened in 20th century Russia was motivated by anything that's written in the 'Communist Manifesto'.

>>5488796
>Second of all, you're an idiot if you think that anything that happened in 20th century Russia was motivated by anything that's written in the 'Communist Manifesto'.

Was going to reply then realized this was b8. Nearly had me, 6/10

it does a good job of showing why capitalism doesn't go anywhere and why it sucks, on other fronts it's not else but a rally call, still a nice read.

my favorite part is when he says women should be "public wives" with the reasoning "the bourgeois probably fuck each other's dames anyway, and besides it's not a new idea it's as old as time".

>>5488759
Yeah but the hard work part is barely being acknowledged by commushits.

It caused genocides of 100 million people.

>>5489109
A combination of hard work and intelligence. However, the ethical value of honing those traits is diminished if you primarily employ them to exploit others.

>>5489262
the bait in this thread's good, i must admit, i've almost bitten three times already

>>5489098

And this is different from free love how?

>>5488643
⇒What's wrong with a theory
It's okay, it's has some interesting opinions on how life could be. Read it as alternate history.
Americans just complain too much about anything with the word communism because they were rasied by indoctrination and propaganda to a point they can't even see it.

>>5489098
⇒I'm pretty sure thats not a quote

>>5489262
⇒guns don't kill people
⇒the words they use in their discourses kill people

>>5489298
⇒it's has some interesting opinions on how life could be

No, it doesn't. It's purely anti-intellectual fantasy based on denial of scientific facts.

>>5489307
fuck off you boring dyke

>>5489311
i agree. fuck off arrow you boring dyke

>>5489310
No, that's you.

>>5489310
⇒denial of scientifc facts
Sociology wasn't even a thing at the time, and isn't really now, calm down.
I'd tell you to read the capital to see the economic basis, but it's a book a bit too long if you're not even reading a mainifiesto.

>>5489311
>>5489324
⇒>Shit posting to stop shitposting
You're worse than the doctors cutting you because you had too much blood.

>>5489348
⇒Sociology wasn't even a thing at the time
Biology and economics were.

⇒I'd tell you to read the capital to see the economic basis
Utopia fantasies are not a valid basis for ecomonics. Even within Marx's lifetime his "theory" was disproved by economists for obvious reasons.

>>5489358
⇒Economics
Yeah, The Capital is a pretty decent book and it's as justified as the logic behind capitalism.

⇒Utopian fantasies
Like capitalists helping the poor because they need them to buy the product?
It's as logic as any system, and it can be expanded and upgraded to specific scenarios.

>>5489375
⇒The Capital is a pretty decent book and it's as justified as the logic behind capitalism.
It is full of errors and false assumptions. Purely ideological fantasy. And there is no such thing as "capitalism". Stop using pejorative buzzwords witout meaning.

⇒It's as logic as any system
You have no idea what the word "logic" means.

>>5489424
>ideological fantasy
>tu quoque

>>5489424
⇒Purely ideological fantasy. And there is no such thing as "capitalism".
So what did Adam Smith do? Pick his nose all day?

⇒no idea what logic means
You seem to ignore it. Which isn't surprising since you ahven't checked the material you are saying is illogical. Maybe you mean that it can't be sustained in real world, but that isn't logical or illogical but applicable.

Capital was too complicated for his project on how philosophy gets to change the world.

manifesto is too simple.

btw
Is Marxism/communism an iteration of "Philosopher kings"?

I just want to know what the scientific fact is... The elusive "human nature" I suppose. Things like competitive genes and stuff... A kill gene...

Be less retarded.

>>5488680
>Accordig to M&E it was outdated within their lifetime
well, except for the fact that marx and engels continued to have it re-published throughout their life time.

The Communist Manifesto, while written circa 1848, never became popular until much later

>>5489501
⇒So what did Adam Smith do?
He described economy on a very basic level. That's all he did. He described. He did not prescribe any ideology. Please stop being retarded.

>>5489530
⇒The elusive "human nature" I suppose
There is nothing "elusive" about evolution. Fuck off creationist retard.

>>5489520
>>5489526
>>5489530
wtf?!??! lol
(Note to self: Never post as I have seen posted.)

>>5489526
maybe. but marxism =/= communism. marx was communism and socialism's biggest critic, not it's biggest supporter.

>>5489538
adam smith was a prominent political figure and critic of the english empire. you're a fucking idiot

>>5489538
Evolution has nothing to do with anything, you blubbering retard. What? We've evolved to be insensible; to need competition; to need to kill people? Are you retarded?

Exercising his dialectical materialisim phiosophy of history he dooms capitalisim Through the manifesto and das kapital. the "machine" organzied while the property owner is individualized or simpile blah blah blah and surplus value will be replaced by machinery causing bubble burst. books show us the past in a new light and much of what he predicted came but not everything because value has a real value dollar cents and blah blah

>>5489555
Did you get summoned by Arrow saying "creationist retard"? It's ok, you can tell us...

>>5489358
> Biology and economics were.
> economics
> not applied sociology

uh no

>>5489551
So what? His description of economics was without ideology.

>>5489552
Creationism belongs on >>>/sci/. Please leave. If you're too stupid to understand evolution, you don't belong here.

>>5489571
Economics is a branch of math.

Guys, we have evolved to *need* competition. Even if two people had to work together, in order for either of them to survive, they'd die, because they'd have to compete, it's human nature lol... One would probably kill the other one in fact, logically speaking. Then he'd die too.

>>5489578
>Economics is a branch of math.
you're a fucking retard.

>>5489578
You're fucking retarded and delusional and you know it. Hey, I'm here for you though if you want out of your lies... Or whatever. If you need this childishness...

>>5489586
Or a troll?
Stop biting.

>>5489596
Trolls need lovin' too bro

>>5489596
>>5489591
>>5489586

Take your kindergarten insults to >>>/s4s/. You are lacking the maturity to post on a literature board.

bumb

>>5489601
I guess it all depends on if you wanna be the giver or the receiver then. If you know what I'm saying'.

>>5489604
You have a female's awareness of your surroundings, that's for sure. How fat are you, though?

One thing. Moral imperative.

>>5489604
>You are lacking the maturity to post on [4chan]
Now I've heard everything.

>>5489616
Kudos.

>>5489613
Go back to >>>/r9k/.

>>5489616
>One thing. Moral imperative
go on..

>>5489616
Wait. You might have that wrong.

>>5489632
Develop.

>>5489424
>witout
>>>/lit/

>>5489641
I'm a boy...

>>5489665
Undevelop.

>>5489563
did you get summoned by Arrow saying" replaced by machinery"? It's ok, you can at least type...

>>5489681
You're Christian, though? Just curious. (You can't deny it or not answer now, you might go to hell.)

>>5489689
I believe that everything is a product of a fomrulative power in nature. animals are the product of a fomulative and moving power while man is those and a thinking power......fuck, i believe that everything is predetermined by its preceeding moment and in the span of time everything was exactly as it was an no other way was possible. i belive people are good or they are bad but neither merits nor deserves blame as they are a product of a higher "natural power" so jesus christ was a here and did wonderful things created a wonderful movement blah blah blah so i cant explain these and the message jesus delivered resounds in me naturally i mean i cant help but express the virtues will more or much less he spoke, typing is bad srry

>>5489727
>"can't explain these"
Yes, I can tell. It was self-evident.

>>5489727
umm... i had been reading Fichte and can srticulate his idea but i subscribe to it

>>5489629

That's quite easy. What's the moral imperative of communism and the one that permeats the marxist thought as a whole? What's that principle that compels left-wing and revolutionary currents to act?

Every ideology has a moral imperative. Moral imperative of conservatism for example is not categorical, however majority of conservative/traditionalist currents subscribe to "lex naturalis" being their imperative. Classic liberal moral and categorical imperative is "freedom". What's the moral imperative of marxism? Now, that's quite easy to spot.

When I prepare a critique of an ideology or system of political thought at first I always try to identify its imperative, because otherwise I'm grasping at straws trying to refute detalic properties of said system. Now, if I refute imperative of a given political current then my job's done. Invalid core of thought renders all its social, political stances invalid as well, at least to a big degree.

>>5488643

Karl Marx was a Jew

He didn't even believe in what he wrote

Nothing is wrong with the book inherently, it's the people who read the book who are wrong.

>>5489727
That was beautiful dude, don't worry about it. And don't worry about Arrow either, she's dumb as heck.

>>5489760
Stefan Molyneux is fucking retarded, you realise that, right?

>>5489801
So are people who read the book.

>>5489753
>permeats
>>>/lit/

>>5489806
Haha, I didn't read the book! *punches hand in air in commie form*

>>5489307
>I'm pretty sure thats not a quote
It's definitely an accurate paraphrase. Have you not read the entire 45 pages of the hawd widdle bouk?
>>5489291
Lol that generation teaches abstinence and mandatory DARE courses nowadays.

It's like a caricature. Quite an embarrassing read in 2014.

>>5489827
Its an inaccurate and tendentious paraphrase.

You assert that Marx says women should be public wives.

There's no normative content in, "The Communists have no need to introduce community of women; it has existed almost from time immemorial."

You've also seemed to have badly misread the transparent, "Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalised community of women. For the rest, it is self-evident that the abolition of the present system of production must bring with it the abolition of the community of women springing from that system, i.e., of prostitution both public and private."

In particular: if marriage is abolished, how are women "public wives"?

Don't bother: you've proved yourself illiterate.

>>5489864
Dude, you're wasting your time. That namefag is an MRA from /r9k/.

What's with this neo-McCarthyism these days?

The number of Marxists is really insignificant and yet all I see is AnCaps and libertarian shitheads rage their asses over this.

>>5489917
It makes for a good boogeyman to think that there is some organized, anti-American organization controlling intelligentsia/education/culture.

>>5489917
Half of Europe is Marxist bro

>>5489938

Except it's not.
Where do you get this idea? Because they don't fully agree with the ingredients?

That's a shitty definition of Marxism.

>>5488647
names please. you're not being very helpful now.

>>5489938
>american education

>>5489959
>AnCaps
Adam smith, david ricardo Robert Malthus, robert owens, j.s mills

>>5489938
10/28 European Union countries have left wing parties in power. Eight of those ten parties have abandoned Marxism in favor of Social Democrat views.

>>5489963
"education"

>>5489938

By that logic Obama's a Marxist.

Oh le wait xD

>>5489578
>So what? His description of economics was without ideology.
Wow, you haven't read EITHER Smith or Marx!

>>5489864
Thank you for literally confirming what I said to any lurker who is not a braindead marxist idiot. I really appreciate it.
>>5489908
>Lol I posted it agen

>>5488643
It's a political activism pamphlet. If you were legitimately interested in marx's philosophy you would ignore it and read his actual books/essays.

The only westerners these days who read the communist manifesto are rebellious teenagers who skim over it for the edginess and other rebellious teenagers who skim over it so they can criticize the "cultural marxism" of political correctness/modern center-left politics as if doing so were edgy.

>>5489358
Ill fuck you so hard that youll be wanting more when ik done, faggot.

>>5488687
A dictatorship of the proletariat can be achieved by means of socioeconomic feedback.

>>5489526
No but communism and book 5 of the republic share some of the same things.

As it was stated before there's no blue print that Marx wrote for what communism would look like or the steps after the workers taking the control of the means of production.

Communisms end game could be said to be the same as anarchy but the population will be enlightened enough to not kill and rape each other because they have gone through the proper dialectical steps as it were.

Theres more to it as well the alienation from our labor, product and everything else will be addresssd before the withering of the state