/lit/ - Literature

De Beauvoir's The Second Sex http://i.4cdn.org/lit/1411617503387.jpg

Currently enjoying it.

>>5481987
tumblr.com

>>5481987

Read the news about women in third world countries who are exploited all day everyday. Don't spend much time on western women.

>>5481995
Recommended

Even if you aren't particularly well disposed to feminism, you'll like it. It's very interesting, reasonable, and well-written.

>>5482012
>gender is 100% socially constructed

>>5481987
womans arent humans.

>>5482015
Is this the claim? How asinine.

>>5481997
don't be stupid

>>5482020
I'm not getting that from reading it. Isn't that more Butler's thing?
Anon is just fucking with you again.

>>5482018
Shut it, degenerate.

>>5481987
>tfw no Emma Watson nudes

>>5481987
>Wanting to join a religion where you are the Satan figure

>>5482071
Sounds fun, carte blanche even

>Want to learn more about feminism
I'll save you some time. Statistically men are superior in regards to intelligence, but only barely (>1%, you could probably get bigger difference in hair color), so you should just treat women as equals. Now spend some time learning something that isn't obvious.

>>5481987
She really is very pretty

>>5482111
Yeah, but I still don't get why she's a sex symbol, she doesn't have much in the way of curves

>>5481987
both issues of Baedan plus Silvia Federici's Caliban And The Witch.
Baedan and Baedan 2 are more queer nihilist than anything else but I find that their approach to gender (that it's entirely constructed and furthermore a collection of apparatuses designed to ensure re/production, and that therefore it must be destroyed as quickly as possible along with civilization itself) is a more rigorous and unapologetic assessment of gender than most of what feminism has put forward (which has always been at least slightly assimilationist/reformist).
Caliban And The Witch offers a rigorous genealogy of women and their bodies starting from the Middle Ages and what they mean to re/production. Very cool if you can handle Marxist style.
The first issue of Baedan can be found online and for free here: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/authors/baedan

The other two books can be purchased from Little Black Cart.

>>5482133
Yeah I find her less 'hot' and more just incredibly pretty

Patriarchy and Accumulation on a World Scale by Maria Mies

>>5482142
You're a faggot

>>5481995
>the ambitions of modern day women
>encapsulated by de beuavoir's the second sex

yeah, i don't think so

>>5482133
she's another in a line of literally big-headed girls with boyish bodies that people seem to love these days

>>5482142
Ever since I found out she's almost identical to Dawkins I can't bring myself to find her attractive...

>>5482926
>he's almost identical to Dawkins
in what way?

>>5482933
Features m8, I'll post the gif if I find it

>>5481995
SEP tells you to read the newly translated edition, which you can find online btw:

>Though readers of the English translation of The Second Sex have never had trouble understanding the feminist significance of its analysis of patriarchy, they might be forgiven for missing its philosophical importance so long as they had to rely on an arbitrarily abridged version of The Second Sex that was questionably translated by a zoologist [Parshley] who was deaf to the philosophical meanings and nuances of Beauvoir's French terms. The 2010 translation of The Second Sex changed that. In addition to providing the full text,this translation's sensitivity to the philosophical valence of Beauvoir's writing makes it possible for her English readers to understand the existential-phenomenological grounds of her feminist analysis of the forces that subordinate women to men and designate her as the Other.

I've only read the intro & conclusion from the Parshley translation, but the meaning of Marx's quote at the end is rendered unintelligible because of poor translation. And judging by the SEP article that's the case throughout the book. So for those who want to read it: read the new translation.

I am personally all for re-branding human rights in every shape possible, so more and more people abide them unknowingly.

I would recommend you the heforshe website, and emma's speech.

Have a short version:

"This is the first campaign of its kind at the UN: we want to try and galvanize as many men and boys as possible to be advocates for gender equality

[...]

the more I have spoken about feminism the more I have realized that fighting for women’s rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop

[...]

My mentors didn’t assume I would go less far because I might give birth to a child one day. These influencers were the gender equality ambassadors that made who I am today.

[...]

Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong… It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.

[...]

It’s about freedom.

[...]

English statesman Edmund Burke said: “All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men and women to do nothing.”

http://www.unwomen.org/en/news/stories/2014/9/emma-watson-gender-equality-is-your-issue-too

>>5483012

Oh, that is very interesting. But It makes me wonder...

What is the base of an religiously integrist society?

What is the easier way to neutralize the threat said kind of societies constitute to the ideal of human rights?

Which is the best way to help them evolve towards open societies?

Is the real battle to be fought with bullets, or with the words for whose people give their lives, and perform the impossible?

Is it a matter of persuasion, or a matter of unraveling some sort of conveniently forgotten truth?

Is gender equality biological? Psychological? Or is it a matter of basic human rights?

Remember...

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

>All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights
>should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood

>>5481995
this

>>5482142
omg her eyes

wow

>>5482933
there's a morph that blends their two faces
you can do the same thing with pretty much any two people and claim they are alike

>>5482940
oh, i found it, it's amazing
dawkins has a better hair color too, looks like a platinum blonde

How can someone like Emma Watson complain about other people's so-called privilege?

>>5483041
I know right? Nothing special about brown eyes, but her's seem so full of life, I can only imagine how they would look up close while she speaks passionately of something

>>5483077

"These rights I consider to be human rights but I am one of the lucky ones. My life is a sheer privilege because my parents didn’t love me less because I was born a daughter."

Where is the complaint?

>>5483099
So now feminists are accusing fathers of not loving their daughters?

>>5483105

I think she might have in mind countries where the living perspectives of females, are unfairly unequal to their male counterparts.

A few examples come to mind, but you don't expect me to do your job huh?

>>5482142
>hot
>pretty

she isn't any of those things

>>5483141
she is very cute

Read Beauvoire
Read Foucault
Read Butler

Foucault was not an explicit feminist but his ideas were used by Butler.

Ignore anyone you meet in real life who says they can "teach you about modern feminism"

>>5483185
then read http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/ebert.htm to get out of the idealist realm

>>5483147
well, that could be

>>5483202
Long read, before I check it out, is it a critique of Marxist feminism or a critique in favor of Marxist feminism?

>>5483215
In favor

>>5482916
Ill punch u so hard in the gabber ya fuckin nazi faggot that you will be known as " the kid who got rekt" by all of everybody for the rest of your life.

>>5482036
>degenerate


nigger that's our word

Just finished reading this and I recommend it. It's short and you can find it online.

>given recent events
what happened?

>>5483675

people on 4chan got upset

>>5483691
aren't they always

>>5483675
An attractive British girl that plays a character in those Harry Potter films is a feminist, and teenage American males on a Chinese Cartoon forum got over-emotional about it.

>>5481987
Which events?

>>5483082
>brown eyes
>not the best

>>5483705
I'm not hunni bee

>>5483012
>Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong…

i hope someday determinism will be considered canon and people will stop saying "people should be free to..." because that ruined her whole speech, people aren't free to change themselves, they are bound by their experiences and you can't "feel free to be strong" at best you can be heavily influenced by your environment so that you become strong, even though i get her point about letting men expressing weakness and emotions which is a good point, even though it's not objectively a good idea, expressing weakness is basically death of one's social status, and also my point actually was: abolishing the gender-sex association won't be a good thing, it'll just replace sex inequalities with gender inequalities i.e "strong gender" will dominate "weak gender". Also:
>It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum
is extremely reducing and just replaces two idiot set of ideals with an idiot spectrum, it won't create equality between men and women it will just give them a new cage, it conserves the idea of genders that should just be forgotten.

>>5484422
i am not sure if you make the right conclusions from determinism
it doesn't matter if your actions are determined or not, if you don't try you get nothing.
will it be pleasant for you to think that you were determined to read about determinism and therefore to lose the desire to try and to achieve something? determined or not you should do your best

>>5484466
the point is that 'doing you best' is determined as well.

>>5482142

Emma watson isn't that hot IMHO

>>5484479
Or very pretty.
She looks like Richard Dawkins.

>>5484472
it doesn't matter, you still should do your best instead of justifying slacking
determinism should have zero impact on your everyday life

>>5484484
Bonus points

>>5482133
She's androgynous which is god tier sexually

Please tell me /lit/ didn't agree with any of that shit she blabbered.

>>5484491
im not justifying slacking
top kek
>should have zero impact on your life
are you...just not understanding the concept

>>5484591
it has no practical sense, only theoretical

>>5484607
I dont think you get it, everything you think is caused by prior events, you aren't controlling anything

>>5484466
i was focusing on the constructivism in psychology, not really determinism itself, basically it's not really about trying to change, it's about getting influenced by environment, but your point is good too, but changing from "weak" to "strong" may actually be extremely hard if not impossible by trying to do it with willpower, even with environment it would be hard to change because 1: finding people that will try to make you strong is pretty hard 2: trying to become stronger by influencing environment is hard because it's hard to control. Basically trying to change your personality (gender would fit more here but it'd sound out of context) isn't like doing your best at something, it's playing with your own mind, it's extremely difficult to change your personality because it's about either being in an empowering environment since the start, being able to influence your environment or having an insanely strong determination (which, in this case is the thing that people want, e.g having the determination to express your emotions/weakness for the case of "strong" people that want to express express their emotions and weaknesses).

>>5484613
so what? nothing changes for you disregard if your will depends on the environment completely or not, you don't know any difference.
it's a purely theoretical question

>>5484649
its a thought so it will affect following thoughts. it also has ethical consequences

>>5482142

>>5484644
also, i'm the one you first responded to, the other anon with which you started a conversation isn't the first post's poster, just an anon that defended determinism (he actually had a good point with his first message about how "doing your best" is also determined, e.g someone that never did his best will have a extremely hard time trying to do his best), also determinism doesn't change anything to my everyday life and doesn't justify my laziness or my slacking, and i think it's the case for many people that support this theory, it's just a view of the world, not an argument for justifying actions (rather "inaction" in this case).

>>5484422

That's a possible reading of the issue, unfortunately, her speech hasn't galvanized me enough to argue passionately about it.

But common sense could say: people are different, this is a fact, and what's wrong, generally, is not how people is, but the judgment we portray of their way of being.

I think that's what hides under that sentence.

>>5484686

>>5484745

>>5484754
The thing is, if you hadn't known it was richard Dawkins face you'd hardly be able to tell that it was photoshooped.

>>5484698
yes, that seems to be her point, but the fact is that what people let other people see of them is related to how they are, which means that trying to change how people show themselves to others mean changing said people, which is, as i previously said, quite hard because changing one's self is all about exterior influence, that said, it surely is a problem that only affects our generation and the previous ones, all we can do now is trying to change our way of doing things for the sake of the next generations' "freedom" (i think the actual arguments should rather be mental stability, but that would hurt the pride of billions of people).

>>5484745
I honestly don't know which was photoshopped onto the other

>>5482133
She played Hermione Granger, pretty much every guy who ever read Harry Potter's wet dream. So basically every guy in our generation.

I think she's attractive in a sort of awkward-tomboy way but I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist trying to get in hers. I prefer women that look like women.

>>5484768

I am not sure I really understand what you're trying to say.
You should try to express it with shorter sentences and clearer concepts.

>Thread about feminist literature
>Half the thread is arguing over whether Emma Watson is attractive

Fuck this gay Earth.

>>5481987
Proofs of a Conspiracy
The Unabomber Manifesto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do5zrdTb-yI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCpjmvaIgNA

Good goy.

>>5484884
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/05/columbia-spectator-prints-name-from-rape-list.html

http://entertainment.time.com/2014/01/31/theres-now-a-college-course-about-beyonce-at-rutgers-university/

Have fun in uni!

>>5484825
when we portray someone as the typical strong male, it's partly because he acts like it, which means that it's also related to his personality, which means that changing the way we portray people means partly changing said people. also i think i mistook you for someone else, hence the misunderstanding.

The thing I can't argue with is the choice of the UN as a platform for this since there are countries with genuine civil rights problems for women that needs to be addressed whereas in countries like the US feminism achieved its goal long ago.

>>5484575
unsexy =/= androgynous

>>5484913
Feminism has not achieved its goal in the US or any other country because in no country have men been entirely subjugated by women.

>>5482142
Neither. She was prettier when she was younger. 14-16 best age for her.

>>5483141
It's not like this is subjective at all

>>5485161
Let me ask you this anon: My dick being in your mom right now, is that subjective is it? Huh? IS IT? HUH? ...I thought not. Faget.

>>5485170
are brits secretly slavs?

>>5485281
Only the Polish ones.

>>5482138

Why is gender issues considered part of feminism at all? It seems like a discussion that should include everyone.

>>5485161
Depending on your views on the Form of beauty.

>tfw stomach drop when it turned out the nude pics threat was just a hoax

>>5484781
I always thought she was a shit Hermione tbh.
She was too far from my mental image of the character.

>>5484900

So for you, the perception you have of a person, changes what said person is?
Just the judgment you shed on that person?
Why do you *need* to portray anyone as anything?
Isn't that some sort of prejudice?

>>5485575
meh. I only ever saw the first two films. Didn't care for them. I was just making an assumption and positing it as a fact. I thought that's what we did here.

>>5482094
i kinda feel it some people need more convincing though yknow which is why i guess the literature exist but the people who do differ in their thinking probably wont read the literature anyways
and like arguments of rape are dumb and stuff like sorry that just happens and it shouldnt but it does the same way there will always be poverty, war, hunger and so on

Julia Kristeva
Robin Morgan
Laura Mulvey
bell hooks
Judith Butler
Luce Irigaray
Donna Haraway

>>5481987
read Andrea Dworkin if you want to know about feminism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyFjPHwF6To
Christina Hoff is pretty good. Watch her stuff.

>>5481987
take a look at The Misandry Bubble

it's not a book, it's a long essay you can find it online

>>5481995

>posting a book that was never good or relevant to start with

Beauvoir was a revolting human being who sexually abused her own female students and wrote absolute tripe her entire life. This is not the place to start learning about anything except decadence

>>5486673
>feminists want to do away with the macho man
is that why so many feminists I've told I'm a fascist seem to crave my dick and end up sleeping with me?

>>5486764
No one will believe you.

>>5483041


>completely boring, pure brown eyes

>omg her eyes, wow

>>5482142

protip: all physical beauty is masculine in nature

>>5484781

I always thought Hermione was a bit of a bitch.

The Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw girl (don't remember, she was older and played by an Asian in the movies) was who I fantasized over.

>>5486737
Silence, you degenerate.

>>5486764
Not that I believe that story, but everyone has different motives. The general feminist motive is for fairness in society and equality before the law.

>>5486776
If feminists think you're macho, they actually like misogyny. "shut up! (lol)" "you're a jerk :p" "oh my god you're such a pig (covering mouth)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv9VKKXwVxU

>>5486801

>blah blah blah I can't hear you

great retort fedoralord

Beauvoir was a horrible example of the female sex she claimed to be representing

>>5486801
>The general feminist motive is for fairness in society and equality before the law.
Third wave changed that.

>>5486801
>The general feminist motive is for fairness in society and equality before the law.

>>5486819
Third wave changed nothing, and your pic doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>5486801
>Not that I believe that story, but everyone has different motives. The general feminist motive is for fairness in society and equality before the law.
Women respect an honest sexist more than they respect someone who is loud about equality for the pussy. "oh m'lady you are so right!" half those guys are complaining on r9k in secret

>>5486814
>she claimed to be representing
And you're a wonderful example of the clergy you represent, padre.
>>5486820
>Doesn't understand English. For free!
>>5486824
Some women are "conservatives" some are complacent fools. Same as men.

>>5486830

>tripfag completely fails to make any relevant points

weather @ 11

daily reminder that Beauvoir would be a rapist by today's definitions

>>5486821
>Silly anon, words mean whatever we say they do, when we say so

>>5486830
>Some women are "conservatives" some are complacent fools. Same as men.
Complacency is not an indicator of intelligence.

>>5486836
Not in France :^)

>>5486847

you're right. she would be hanging from a noose like the the rest of the french with about 8 months worth of prozac in her bloodstream

>>5486836
I see the little points you keep jabbing and I ignore them. You're offended that she would have sex with one of her students, for whatever reason. So what? You're fanciful additions may help you masturbate at night, but I don't care.

>>5486841
Hardly what that anon said. You're a fool.

>>5486842
I'm saying the world is full of a variety of people.

>spend the past several decades blaming men for everything
>spend every waking moment on the internet calling men sexist retards for having opinions of their own
>disregard everything men say because "male bias lol"
>deliver a tearful speech asking for men to help you with your political agenda that literally doesn't give a single fuck about them

>>5486884

>have sex with
>the same as sexually abuse and write little diary entries about the odor of their assholes to share with her cross-eyed boyfriend who was a felon in his own right

about as despicable as despicable gets anon.

All I got out of The Second Sex is that being born a woman is horrible. No matter what they wont feel like they fit in or that they're living an authentic life.

To me it just seems like the female version of an existential crisis. They need some form of validation. Where as men seek it internally women go for the external, ie social causes.

>>5486859

bouvieiar?

>>5486884
>I'm saying the world is full of a variety of people.
That's very interesting...how did you come to that conclusion?

Girls are emotionally,and socially superior to men.

Men are physically and mentally superior to women.

They made a mistake asking for equality, the system was built by men to suit men to please women. That being said, won't fault them for wanting to vote and have jobs and shit.

>>5486893
Whiny little bitch.

>>5486896
That's all you could get out it? You skimmed.

>>5486936
>the system was built by men to suit men to please women.
Except it wasn't. There are some allies certainly, but the amount of hate for women in general just keeps going.

>>5486946
You misunderstand. That was universal/pre-equality.
The system hasn't changed, but not women have become a fundamental source of disorder in it. The hate is only going to grow, and the feminist theorists who are detached from reality only fuel the fire.

For men, competing with women means going to war with something they desire and were more or less taught to treat as delicate. It is fundamentally unpleasant.

>>5486954

>>5486946
>but the amount of hate for women in general just keeps going.

that's no surprise, because it's other women who perpetuate misogyny. many of them are called 'feminists'

this is the part where you say both sexes have 'internalized' misogyny and I laugh hysterically at you

>>5486954
No. The hate and adoration have always been. Tipping back and forth from region to region. The pissy ones are upset their ideal balance of of making women sex-worker/wet nurse/domestic servant and-you-better shut-up-&-get-me-a-beer, obviously are pushing back at women's rights gains, but most have never really lost it.
That's the biggest problem with this so-called third wave. It seems (I don't follow it as closely as some of you sperges) to barely care at all for women outside their first-wrold.

>>5486958
Get out >>>/r9k/

>>5486960
isnt your whole claim here that feminsts have internalized misogyny and isnt that way way stupider

>>5486981

Feminists are the most dangerous pack of misogynists the world has ever seen. There is nothing 'internal' or 'subconscious' about their hatred of healthy women.

>>5481987
The emancipation of women by Vladimir Lenin, The liberation of women and the African freedom struggle by Thomas Sankara and Women's suffrage and the class struggle are all classic feminist books.

>>5486958
Butterfly has been here for years, calm down.

>>5486992

>Lenin

come on m90 I know you can do better than that

>>5486989
see you post stuff like this but you think it's laughable that many societal structures have misogyny embedded in them

>>5487000
He's a fucking idiot, anon. Report him and move on.

>>5486989
Fundamentalists are far more dangerous.
Economists are more dangerous.
Rapists are much more dangerous

>There is nothing 'internal' or 'subconscious' about their hatred of healthy women.
"Healthy women" meaning what exactly? Centerfolds, housewives, middle-class hijab wearing bougies?

>>5486993
Peoiple really think this is happening, I can't go to /co/ anymore.

>>5487005
This is a bad feeling.
I'd rather firelord had free run of the place than see it overrun with these... things.

>>5487004

"Healthy women" as in the kind who don't lack the stuff for children.

The opposite of those abortive types who have typically made up the feminist movement hitherto

here comes the shadowbanning

>>5487012
>the kind who don't lack the stuff for children.
Most women have working wombs and fertile eggs.
So I see you're a little buttmad over the abortion issue.

[I need feminism because I'd like to see the number of abortions go down.]
This is not a contradiction.

>>5487005
>Peoiple really think this is happening,

It is. I didn't delete my post, a janitor did.

The irony of it. You call out SJWs on censorship and they delete your post calling out their censorship.

>>5487021

>Most women have working wombs and fertile eggs.

Exactly. That's why most women are not feminists :)

Q
E
D

>>5487023
It's the mod. On a privately owned and operated website.

>>5487026
Not so. And why would you want more children born on this planet?

>>5486812
This. Feminists love cuckolding, making the male supporters of feminism their bi cuckolds while fucking misogynist alpha males is their dream

This is the moral compass of pretty much every third wave feminist

>>5487030

Because the people we already have are aging, and one day a younger generation will need to support them, as well as mankind collectively.

The Japanese are 100 years from extinction because they have dropped below the replacement rate and their population is rapidly aging.

Wanting better lives for women and caring about female health is not consistent with feminism. The intentions of that movement are, and have always been, quite otherwise.

>>5487030
>It's the mod. On a privately owned and operated website.
What's your point? It's still censorship.

You sure are good at saying nothing.

>>5487037
Your wet dream fantasies may also occur to some of these so-called third-wave feminists, but this isn't real feminism.

>>5487039
It's about time we wind down your expansionism. Mankind can't survive like this.

>>5487041
Say what you need to say here >>/lit/thread/S5481987

>>5487041
butterfly used to be a janny, for all we know she still is

>>5487055

Nor can it survive with villains like you poisoning entire generations of children in utero.

A smaller population would obviously be more desirable, but let's not kid ourselves here. Nothing about mankind is contracting, except perhaps the intelligence of the average biped.

http://femdom-fetish-tube.com/video/4014/humiliated-husband-4.html

http://femdom-fetish-tube.com/video/8417/cuccold-bitch.html


This is modern feminism

>>5487071
>>5487081
These are not arguments

>>5487063
>poisoning entire generations of children in utero.
Oh stop. In prosperous and feminist leaning nations, including legal abortions, we see less offspring, living healthier lives and getting better educations. I, and many others, would like to see this spread to the rest of the world. We could have had it if it wasn't for some meddlesome human ticks about competitiveness and the divine.

>>5487115
http://femdom-fetish-tube.com/video/18753/bi.html

mothe(delete) rless com / G85F7FF5 /0CB0A3D

>>5487115
>These are not arguments
Deleting my posts isn't an argument either.

>>5487185
>>/lit/thread/S5481987

zeros + ones by sadie plant

>>5487203
I'm still not seeing anything substantial from you.

>>5483023

>>5487572

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TkuAIKoI28

>>5486673
who is this based woman?

Are there any women that want real equality, so that their will be no female professional athletes and no female soldiers et cetera because they can't compete with men by men's standards in many fields? If women were to get real equal treatment a lot of artificial equalising would be taken away. Women now have more than equality, they have a type of affirmative action. And of course in other fields they are artificially held back.

It would be interesting to see which branches of society would become mostly male or female dominated because they both tend to excel at different things. Equal chance to fulfil one's potential seems better than equal chance to arrive at the same position regardless of potential.

>>5485320
>>5485320
>>5485320
>>5485320

Anyone?

>>5488072
because they're the only ones that care.

>>5486893
>Emma invites men to join the feminist fight
>but Emma, feminists dont allow men to join, they villify us
>get called a whiny little bitch
>and Emma, feminists censor what we have to say
>this post has been deleted
>thanks for proving my point.jpg
>get told to fuck off (multiple times)
>thanks for proving my point again.jpg

This is like a fucking comedy act.