/lit/ - Literature

>>5450831
Even Adorno wasn't as edgy as OP.

>capitalism
>>>/pol/

>advertising
>>>/biz/

That is such a fucking gay comic.

Why is it that everytime this artist does one it's either a completely outlandish quote, or if the quote is fine some hippie bullshit strawman comic?

Also Propaganda by Edward Bernays.

>>5450867
i think its super bad ass

>>5450831

Is there anyone out there this weak minded and easily manipulated?

T...the ads are bullying me...

Not that I have any affection for ads, vandalize them all you like. I find them annoying too. But holy shit this guy's skin is thinner than that skeleton girl everyone keeps posting on /b/

>>5450831
>Lol guise lets fight capitalism, I'm so edgy I stole the server thats hosting my non-profit webcomic
Jesus Christ is this guy 15?

Is there any evidence that these billboard adverts work? I haven't bought anything advertised in them for years.

>>5450904
No, corporations just pour multiple billions of dollars into designing and funding them on a never researched hunch.

>>5450867
>banksy
>gay

>>5450831
JR, Americana, Night Chills, Main Street, The Franchiser, ...

>>5450892
Shut up you filthy capitalist.

>>5450919
You gotta admit that the combination of comic and quote elevate the affair to OP-levels of homosexuality. As if some street artist and the web cartoon fag following him had a saying in anything. And that's the fucking problem with a lot of artists. They do their little thing, get their share of praise and suddenly they think they have some sort of profound insight into matters they obviously don't know shit about. It doesn't get better thanks shit like Twitter.
The only difference between this guy and good old Jaden is that this man can formulate his crap in a way that doesn't immediately give away he's a fuckin cretin.

Jenny Government, the Space Merchants Stand on Zanzibar (to some extent)

>>5450841
>>5450867
>>5450888
>>5450892
>>5450979
>Being this indoctrinated by the capitalist regime
>2014

Heheh, we're doin' good dis week

>>5450972
No you, get bent commie.

>>5450844
>>advertising
>>>>/biz/
You know that he's probably not searching for book on the practical application of advertisement right ?
>>5450888
Did it ever occur to you that we're living in an environment in which we get used to this form of subliminal manipulation / ... ?

>>5450831
Besides of course Bernay's stuff I'd say Society Of Spectacle.
And has anyone in here read The Cancer Stage of Capitalism ? Is it also issuing advertisment / marketing ?
Also look up the stuff in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subvertising
I'd be interested in such books (that are more focused onto this specific topic) as well though.

I'm really not up to a future in which augmented reality goggles / contact lenses display targeted ads (using personal data such as from where it detects you to look by eye-motion detection and alike) everywhere and being locked into listening to subliminally manipulating bullshit by targeted sound of hypersonic sound systems or bone conduction or on bus windows (youtube.com/watch?v=azwL5eoE5aI), being immersed in an artificial culture of superficial trends and so on. It's like the machine's faces intruding the human psyche.
Seriously fuck that.

>>5451282 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ

>there are people on /lit/ who don't think that comic is lame and corny

"i'm fit but i don't work out"

>>5450831
Why do corporations 'owe us'?

The "problem" described in OP's comic is the same sort of non-problem that "cyber bullying" is. In periods of comfort and ease, people have to invent their own problems in order to feel active and alive--even if the "problem" is something so fucking dumb that can be solved by the mere turn of the head or turning off the computer.

>>5450914
That's what I thought, thanks.

>>5451334
Bullshit: advertising is all over the fucking place. Avoiding it just isn't as simple as avoiding cyber-bullying by turning off PC/phone.

>>5451104
>regime
>capitalist

>zen pencils

>>5451015

At least there's one llive person here sailing above all the other brain dead zombais infesting this place.

Carry on sister, you are not alone.

>>5451354
Are you really not desensitised to ads by now?

If you're paying attention to ads then you're quite bored

>>5451370
That's the problem.

>>5451377
The problem is that you're bored

liven things up brotha

>>5451354
>hurr durr

If you're so easily cowed by an image on a billboard, you evidently have not known any real hardship. It's one thing to glance at an advertisement and think it's mindless clutter, it's another to take the shit seriously and feel oppressed by it.

It is exactly like cyber bullying, except the screen interface is billboards, magazines, and TV.

>>5450831
When will the Marxist cry-babies die out? We have been in "Late Capitalism" for what, 40 years now, and still going stronger than ever? You fuckers are eventually going to run out of names. "Zombie Capitalism" next?

>>5450841
Adorno is the opposite of edgy.

>>5451393
>stronger than ever
hahahahahahaha

>>5451381
You are a moron. Who said anything about being "cowed" - nice on the undistinguished usage, btw - by billboards and screens? The problem is that they clutter up supposedly public space, with their grinning cretins and cloying child-type things. It's fucking ugly trash and if you don't think surrounding people with ugly trash has any impact, you've bought into the system way too much to have your mind changed through reason.

>>5451393
>stronger than ever
My sides.

>>5451403
You cry about stupid shit.

>>5451381
Your whole conception of reality is mostly based on images from advertisement, tv and movies.

>>5451282
Thank you for a genuine post.

Capital by Thomas Piketty is meant to be very good, although I haven't yet read it

>>5451408

You are an idiot

>>5451406
Haha, no good sir, MY sides

>>5451409
Yours, maybe.

>>5451400
I can laugh too

hahaHA! Now who has the last laugh?

>>5451393
Too bad it'll be dead in the next 40 years...

>>5450831

i recall a couple of sf books with the very same idea as your comics, frederik pohl&cyril kornbluth, 'the space merchants' and anne griffith 'captive audience'
so it's like a problem for more than 50 years already...

though jules verne already had some satire about ads in his 'in the year 2889'

>>5451423
If anything it will be bigger than before. We might be able to bring all of China and some of Africa under our banner by then.

>>5451434
>implying China isn't hyper-capitalist

>>5451434
The whole thing will blow up in everybodys face soon enough, if theres not a war at least. I don't know how capitalism is supposed to deal with the problems we(as in humanity) are facing right now. But youre to caught up in your silly ideology to even realize this.

>>5451393
Stronger than ever in terms of inequality maybe. Or almost stronger than ever, anyway.

>>5451434
What happens when all the resources run out?

>>5451452
If only there were some source of raw materials in space

>>5451456
>implying that this will be feasible within the dying last breaths of capitalism

>>5451444
>corporatism
>hyper-capitalist

>>5451446
>The whole thing will blow up in everybodys face soon enough, if theres not a war at least. I don't know how capitalism is supposed to deal with the problems we(as in humanity) are facing right now. But youre to caught up in your silly ideology to even realize this.

Yes, I am the one caught up in my silly little ideologue because I don't think Capitalism is going to collapse in 40 years, because Marxism is going to magically pop up in Western countries and actually be successful. I am caught in my silly little ideology because I think Capitalism will survive its modern threats as its survived all of the threats of its past.

>>5451452
We die? Do you think other systems besides Capitalism shit steel and aluminum? Marxism isn't going to spawn more oil reserves, coal deposits, iron ore mines, sun rays, etc. We have the resources we have, and they will inevitably dry up no matter your political system. We could of course argue about who uses them more efficiently, and I would bring up 99% of modern economic theory, and you would counter with other interpretations "efficiency", but this wouldn't really accomplish anything.

>>5451450
World standard of living is increasing rapidly. Inequality is dangerous, yes, but we have countered it before. Its far more likely that people revolt because they aren't being "paid enough", not for them to own the means of production. Marxists shot their load with the Soviets. It will be very hard to have another revolution when the novelty has worn off.

>but that's not real socialism/marxism/whatever
Yes, I agree with you (sort of). That doesn't mean your average man is going to go along with it though.

>>5450919
To be fair, he is the archetypal talentless hack.

>>5450831
Situationists

>>5451523
I think what is needed is a system that prioritizes sustainability over efficiency. The latter should be rejected as much as possible.

>>5451554

Good luck convincing the world that a good chunk of the population needs to be cut in order to maximize sustainability. Its not like capitalism is opposed to the idea. Its very efficient to sell something without actually using up any resources. Recycling will become more efficient. Alternative fuels will be moved towards when oil becomes too expensive.

>>5451400
The notion of culture industry is quite edgy.

>>5451523
> implying inequality went down because of Marxism
Can you guess who first introduced the idea of a truly progressive tax? It was the USA and the UK after WW2. Seeing that their economies were in dire need of a boost after two world wars and a depression in between, they raised the income tax on the top 1% and "extreme" revenue to as much as 90%.

If Europe's suicide is what finally lead developed nations of the time to reconsider the shape of their economies, it is indeed pretty hard to imagine how bad inequality will have to get for any change to happen.

But your "average man" is already feeling the strain of inequality, and it's only a matter of time until he truly wakes up and does something about it, because it's only going to get worse.

>>5451584
>But your "average man" is already feeling the strain of inequality, and it's only a matter of time until he truly wakes up and does something about it, because it's only going to get worse.

Unless we, you know, raise them taxes up again and pump out some more "bread and circus".

>>5451568
If Malthus couldn't do it, I don't think I ever could.

>>5451523
Ever heard of a Circular Economy?

>>5451584
>He thinks people actually paid 90% of their income

What sort of leftist delusion are you operation on

>>5451606
Taxes on who? The rich? That's only going to work if you couple it with real egalitarian measures (progressive tax on income and capital, free education, regulation of banks, etc.), which with a democracy in such a poor state is virtually unachievable.

>>5451625
They didn't, obviously, because at the end of WW2 capitalists in countries like England and France had capital and sources of income that were in their colonies and often weren't fully included within their fiscal systems. Additionally, income from capital wasn't taxes as heavily. Regardless, it's the idea that counts. Also it worked.

>>5451636
Except people only paid an effective tax rate between 20-30% of their income, far less than what it is today.

It only 'worked' as you say because it was the opposite of what you think it was.

>>5451765
Shhh, just let the Marxists have their "critique". We can profit later from selling their writings and t-shits with their slogans.

>>5451622
It is physically impossible to recycle 100% of your resources. You'd have to reverse or at least stop entropy.

>>5451765
I'm literally moving tomorrow and packed away my Piketty books already so I can't get you a source on what I'm saying, but know that inequality decreasing as a result of the two world wars is a fact.

>I don't care about advertising

Sure you don't. By the way, your ad-block needs updating

>>5451456
>let's waste this planet and then move on to mining asteroids and stuff!!1
God, how I hate this cancer ideology.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPeondgbfDM]

>>5451554
>being dense enough to think sustainability and efficiency are exclusive.
Anarcho-capitalist, don't you have some cave to inhabit ?

[Maximum efficiency is a central aspect of what is needed in seeking sustainability.
And you can't stop technological progress either way. What kind of self-deception even gets you to believe that efficiency is to be rejected ?
I'm of course implying that you aren't trolling which is pretty justified seeing all those people actually holding up that twisted belief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvbAsVs4RYE]

>>5451948 woops, meant to say anarcho-primitivist, not anarcho-capitalist (which are btw usually of the upper kind of the twisted ideological outgrowths that I think are the both amongst the most clear expressions of our current system's inconsistencies [the conclusional fuckups people derive from it])

>>5450831
For capitalism itself:
Start with Marx's Capital using the David Harvey course.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/index.htm
http://davidharvey.org/

>>5450831
guy debord - society of the spectacle
jacques ellul - propaganda
abbie hoffman - steal this book
edward bernays - propaganda
the essential works of anarchism

"Capitalism has the solutions to all of its supposed crises planned out so far ahead of time that the are effective non-crises, but still retains the ingenuity to sell these non-crises to everyone, everywhere, all of the time. Even to others from competing ideology."

>>5451568
>Alternative fuels will be moved towards when oil becomes too expensive.
This is true, but they're two way of looking at this:

1. We could have Alternative energy/fuel remain stagnant, while oil/gas/coal becomes scarcer and scarcer which leads to a late investment in renewable.

2. Alternative fuels/energy could be invested in early, leading to the price of such devices and fuels to become significantly cheaper than for example, a stagnant price of oil/coal/gas.

Because of the whole 'green' philosophy, climate change, energy independence and certain long-term economic benefits of things like solar panels, I suspect we're on the road to path 2.

The two big industries of the future are bioengineering/medicine and renewable, so I've heard.

>defending advertising

die, seriously

>>5452087 haha do people really believe this ?

>get down mane...there's a solution to all our problems already. The only reason you haven't heard about these yet but instead get literally flooded with all that crisis propaganda is because some people profit from this. There must be somebody to profit from it else it wouldn't be real. They are actually marketing campaigns to sell us our solution.

Don't you notice how this perspective is deeply entangled within the workings of our current framework ? It's like it's impossible for people to explain sth to themselves beyond the terms of the current system.

>>5450844
Capitalism is not politics. It isn't even a well-defined economical stance. It's merely a buzzword insult used by people who are upset about others being more successful.

>>5450831
Amazed no one has posted this yet, No Logo is the one absolute classic on this topic and is Naomi Klein's best work (much better than the more famous Shock Doctrine).

>>5450831


is there anything worse than zen pencils? its like by tangentially latching onto some deeper concept, it manages to become even more cringe inducing than if it was simply pure shit.

>>5452212
i got bored with it

>>5450831
>webcomics

>>5452342
If weblogs are blogs, are then webcomics bcoms?

>>5452233
i did too actually. i thought it started out pretty well but eventually it turned into a bit of a scattergun attack on pretty much everything. a low point was when she mentioned Lego and said something like "oh of course nowadays you can only make one thing out of a Lego set". just seemed like an off-topic aside

>>5452406
>If weblogs are blogs, then is webshit bshit?

>>5452200

It is, actually, but the way it's used as a buzzword though is completely meaningless.

>We may chained
>you need us to farm your land

Such slave mentality. Rather than wish to be free, you console yourself that you're the maker of your master, while still continuing to do their bidding.

>>5452406

If weblogs are blogs, then is gowebgo owebg?

>>5452458

>Not using abbv

>>5450919
>liking street art
/hm is over there buddy
>>5451370
SHHHHHhhh
everyone in /gd is going to be out of a job

>>5452070
>>5450831

Heidegger and Goebels should suffice too

>>5450831
>look at how deep my existential crisis is!
>look at how alienated I am!
>look at how much of an intelligent person I am amongst a bunch of sleeping sheeple
>wow I'm so special

fuck everyone like you

you need to get slapped and do something with your life

>>5451794
Recycling 90% would still divide consumption by 10. That would leave us much more time to think of a longer-term solution (population control/space exploration/world-scale religious suicide while wearing fancy ritual robes/whatever).

>>5450831
neat comic but doesn't it clash with the spirit of the quote that he changed the company names so they wouldn't complain?

>>5453554
le filtered

Unless it hasn't already been posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQM8UKgt3Qs

Again, black and white thinking.

Also, this is full of fallacies.

But I kind of support it.

How The Fuck Is Propaganda Bullying Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Billboard Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha.

>>5454123

top kek

>>5454080
*unsheathes fedora*

>>5451393
>stronger than ever
topkek

>>5452200
>capitalism isn't even a well-defined economic stance

>help! adverts are oppressing me!

you lot probably aren't even disappointed in yourselves, inexplicably enough

>>5450831
Of course you couldn't post about the most virulent and oppressive ideology today without a bunch of plebs trying to hedge you back in.

Read:

The Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord
Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television by Jerry Mander

Jerry Mander actually suggests a list of other texts. Which is much needed, he himself is a little bit of a kook in some places.

Two essays also spring to mind:

Advertising at the Edge of Apocalypse by Sut Jhally
E Unibus Pluram by David Foster Wallace

I wish I could think of more right now. Maybe read some McLuhan.

The thing is, the massive propaganda that advertising represents goes largely unnoticed. The USA has all sorts of gray caricatures of the Soviet Union as a place of brainwashing, but if you replaced all the flags and images of Stalin's face with burgers and coke ads you'd get a spitting image of the United States.

I don't even know if you can fight it anymore, OP. This society is fucked.

>>5451370
>Desensitized to ads

You're a fucking idiot, and you'll never even know it.

You can always spot a moron when he uses some permutation of the phrase "Ads don't affect me." The person who says that is so stupid that he completely misses the function of something he's surrounded by everyday.

>>5451497
>capitalism defined as anything other than the private ownership of the means of production
>1867+147

>>5454326
Thanks, anon

>>5450888
>there anyone out there this weak minded and easily manipulated
Yes. That's why advertising works.

>>5454326
Thanks from me as well.

>>5454335
I'm sorry that you're so easily bored/distracted, try paying attention to more important things in life

ITT: people who think they're immune to advertisement which "consists out of a plump manipulation for weak people to buy the advertised product".

youtube.com/watch?v=B0TQR1kVs0k

>>5454326
Thank you based anon

>>5450979
Banksy has been working in that exact same mindset for the past 15 years and is huge as fuck, dude.

He's talking exactly about what he spoke through all of his artistical career, only now he's being more direct about it.

>>5450831
The faggot in this comic has dedicated his life to advertising. He thinks about advertising 24/7. He isolates himself and commits vandalism out of an obsession with fucking advertising.

>>5451381
>It's one thing to glance at an advertisement and think it's mindless clutter, it's another to take the shit seriously and feel oppressed by it.
I agree with this post.

>>5450914
Billboard advertisements are a very marginal proportion when it comes to cash flow.

>>5450880
How's high school, buddy?

>>5450831
This was a good comic until about half way through. Banksy's an idiot.

>>5450831
>comic bitches about the standard of beauty in advertising
>main character is a skinny, brooding rebel with sharp features and beard stubble who strikes a bunch of badass poses

This idiot is exactly the same as the people he hates, with an added layer of smugness and dishonesty.

>>5451400
Adorno was a whiny, edgy manchild.

99 francs. Didn't read the book but the movie is fun.
Houellebecque might have some related stuff.

>>5450979
Please tell me what is incorrect about the principles of this comic. Not the author, not the delievery, just the message.
Nobody ITT has done it, they just go on about how akwardly try-hard the comic is, as if trying hard and lack of finesse itself is grounds for invalidity.

>>5456585
Also 99 francs mostly goes like Wolf of Walt Street.

>>5451523
>We die? Do you think other systems besides Capitalism shit steel and aluminum?
No other system besides capitalism makes it moral to mine them well past responsibility.

>>5456622
Do you know the paperclip maximizing machine?

Humans are like that.

We are terrible long term planners. Few humans are capable of planning a fraction of their total lifespan. A long term goal to a human is five years hence. They are driven by short term desires and comforts.

We are paper clip machines of a sort, and I am convinced that all intelligence is. Humans are on the path to self-destruction for it.

>banksy
>zen comics
their critiques of capitalism are so profound they are all over facebook

>>5450888
>>5451314
>>5451334
>>5451359
>>5451370
>>5451379
>>5451381
>>5451393
>>5451408
>>5451420
>>5451456
>>5451497
>>5451523
>>5453554
>>5454080
>>5454123
>>5454285
>>5454572
>>5456428
>>5456545

Everyone here defending advertising is totally misinformed. First of all, advertising DOES affect you. Yes you. And it does it whether you 'consent' or not. That is a fact of psychology. You are not the strong, edgy, individualist that you think you are.

Secondly and more importantly, no one feels oppressed because they see inane images on billboards/tv/websites etc. They feel oppressed because those images were literally put there with the specific intention of manipulating them to serve the interests of powerful people. As Guy Debord himself said, "The Spectacle is not a collection of images; [rather] it is a relationship between people that is mediated by images." Go back and read that again, it is very important.

In other words, we leftists aren't protesting the inanity of pop culture. We are protesting the hierarchy that masks itself behind that inanity. This is the vital point that is being missed ITT.

The fact that advertisements create desire/frustration is only a side-effect. Is it possible that in an extremely democratic and egalitarian society pop culture might still be inane? Of course. But then, if there is little hierarchy, if each person has a say in society and their own reasonable share of influence over the structures that govern their lives, if, indeed, they had been participants in the construction of their own culture, rather than passive spectators of it, then who would feel oppressed? What new artificial desires/frustrations would be created? How could people be tyrannized by their own conscious creation? I don't think they would. The alienation that people currently feel towards pop culture/consumerism is precisely the result of their powerless and subservient position in relation to it.

http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/index.htm
http://www.nothingness.org/

>>5457394
I forgot the image

>>5457394
This is also why Debord compares the personality cults of the Soviet blocs with the advertising of capitalism. Capitalism only differentiated by the great mass of spectacles serving a variety of autocrats.

Walter Lippman (Public Opinion)
Stuart Ewen (Captains of Consciousness)

Pretty much opposite perspectives, but there you have it.

>>5457394
You think I see myself as a "strong, edgy, individualist" for... being more or less satisfied in a consumer culture? That doesn't make any sense and you know it.

And then you drop the shocker of the century: that corporations enjoy money, and have an agenda behind those magazine pages they buy. I assure you, that "vital point" is not being "missed," But of course, you already knew that. That's why you had to mass reply. If you had focused on any one post, you'd have had to address the fact that we aren't as dumb as you've made us out to be.

I'm not even going to tackle the impenetrable nonsense in that last paragraph, which reads like a mish-mash of a 17-year old stoner's Facebook posts and a 15-year old's attempt to impress his psychology class.

>>5452424
I don't know the book, however, Lego shifted its design from generic blocks with which you can build whatever your fantasy allows you to build to more specific builds which can't be easily 'misused' in other ways. Not only oldschool Lego fans had had problems with that, but subsequently the company itself, as their number of parts increased dramatically, and thus, costs had risen due to the complexity of logistics in production and storage. In order to cut their costs they were forced to re-design their products and their production process. But if I remember right that was partly problematic as their former designer had abandoned or had to abandon the ships long before.

So the author probably got a point here.

What's /lit/s opinion on David Harvey? I've read The New Imperialism, and I'´m kind of stuck in the middle of The Condition of Postmodernity, but he's also written books that are purely about criticising capitalism as a system, that I don't really feel like sinking time into. Are they any good?

Ogilvy on Advertising a classic. The dude was pretty well-read to so it's well-written and references literature, history, etc. Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned.

>>5458465

>And then you drop the shocker of the century: that corporations enjoy money, and have an agenda behind those magazine pages they buy. I assure you, that "vital point" is not being "missed,"

See, exactly. That is not the point. Profit motives are not the point. Consumer culture is not the point.

The point is that this 'consumer culture' that we have is controlled and owned by a small number of people. Culture is generally not democratic, and especially not in second and third world countries. There are big differences of power/influence over society between people. That is the point.

>>5450904

It works like this. You see an ad for some shit. "Feh, I never buy x anyway, stupid cunts don't fool me." Some time later, a year, two years, you need to buy an x, but what brand? From the darkness pops up brand X. Gosh, they look like the best quality...I'll get this one. And their job is done.

This works for items you don't know shit about and can't judge for yourself. And let's face it, a lot of people don't know shit about shit. So there is a lot of room for influence here.

thelastpsychiatrist.com. Blog, not book, but he dissects a lot of advertisements and media stories, so it's up that alley. There's my pleb contribution.

>>5450888
>>5451370

this post is literally pure ideology

such a puerile way of thinking here

> Someone does something you don't like
> "Wahh!! Why can't everyone do what I want!"

Not a book, but:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115463/

>>5450831
I love the way he runs away the corporation ads just to enter his house full of political propaganda.

>>5460898
>Empty non-statements that can be applied to almost anything.

>>5450831
Sadly it seems as if we'd have to change the human brain in order to successfully abolish capitalism...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/06/not-even-climate-change-will-kill-off-capitalism

>>5460975
KIRCHEEEEEEIIIIIIIISSSSS!

>>5460485

This argument is now outdated though.
In Debord's time this was true.
Today we too are producing culture.
The internet has given rise to cultural production that are distinctly people's own output.

zen pencils is literally one of the worst things to ever appear on the internet because it actually somehow ends up being contrary to the original idea that it's trying to communicate. Like it always ends up weirdly misogynistic or reactionary and of course reddit feels all warm and fuzzy about them. It's the straight up CRAZIEST SHIT. Like take this one or the robin williams one. what the actual fuck, dude?

>>5450831
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini(not sure if I spelled his last name correct).

I'm not that far into psychology, I just picked up on it. But, I think it's good to read some Bernay's and maybe Le Bon's "The Crowd" to get an understanding of the public's mind.

But definitely pick up Influence. It expanded my general knowledge about "capitialism" and advertising deeply.

>>5464490
>tfw I used to like zen pencils

>>5464490
good god, this actually crosses over from being terrible into being hilarious for entirely unintentional reasons

>>5464490
My both parents and my brother are in advertising.

Its almost insulting how this comic attempts to portray the field.

>>5464563

Yeah because advertising is such an honorable thing.

Das Kapital?

>>5451497
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

>>5464563
>the field.

lmao

>>5464549
what

>>5464549
...

How am I supposed to react to this?

>>5464490
>>5464549
OP here. Admitedly when I first posted that image I hadn't really looked at it that much, but rather used it as related content. However on further reflection, it seems that zen pencils is infact shit-tier.

sorry.

>>5464549
I dont get it, he killed himself, he didn't kill a firebreathing monster

>>5464569
What are you implying? Unlike OPs comic seems to realize, advertisement is about promotion, not about lying to customer.

>>5464953
he still uh, won anyway? or something?

that's why I found it hilarious, the comic has no idea what it is saying and it's like the author's own banality overwhelms him in his attempt to try.

>oh shit RW died, uh, computer games?

>>5465816
>advertisement is about promotion, not about lying to customer.

>>5465858
I'd call you a class traitor if you had any class to begin with.

>>5457717
>Stuart Ewen (Captains of Consciousness)

Huh. I had him as a professor for Media 180 (he teaches at Hunter College). He's great

>>5464563
it's supposed to be insulting

>>5450831

Do people really feel this way about advertising? Are people this weak minded?

They're just trying to get your attention. They don't own you.
wtf maybe its just because I grew up without any spending money, but you sheeple don't need to buy something just because there is a tocuhing commercial or a large billboard.

>>5466744
You're missing the point, I think.

>>5466744
lmfao you're controlled by capitalism and u don't even know it bro. even if you don't buy everything you see a commercial or advert for, unconsciously you are being swayed by symbols. i bet you have preferences of different types of bottled water and you don't even consciously recognize it.

>>5466744

This nigga is right. If you believe in the argument defended by that shitty comic, you're just weak. A normal human, especially on /lit/ where you're expected to read something not-too-dumb, is completely aware of advertising strategies. We don't need marketing experts and fancy terms like 'greenwashing' to guess exactly what they want us to think. Just fucking look at an ad. It seems to be aiming at 13 years olds.

>>5467035

the real argument is about what occupies public spaces, and how in a libertarian society there would be nothing stopping anybody from just flashing shit inside your eyelids

>>5467035
>I resist ideology with my will!

>>5466931

>i bet you have preferences of different types of bottled water and you don't even consciously recognize it.

horrors.

>>5467035
>>5466744
ya everyone affected by advertising is weak and deserves what's coming to them. increase the military's budget for commercials those fuckers who fall for them deserve to die in the sand

This thread

Why are people so fervent in being squeaky cogs?

>>5468409
More like hungry meowing kittens

>>5468409
>omg le everything in my capitalist society is so perfect
>there are hamburgers everywhere, why isn't everyone happy?

Christ. Just kill yourself you degenerate.

>>5468426
>le Che Guevara face

>>5468436
>le bow-tie economist face

>>5464953
NO JOHN, YOU ARE THE DEMONS

Edging like a mad cunt here
Advertising makes me angry. It pisses me that an advertiser can own and operate a lifestyle, because PEOPLE ARE BORING and engaging in a lifestyle that ads try to support make you more boring. Who the fuck would want to associate themselves with a woman who only wears prada, a man who only eats at starbucks? Nobody likes the apple fanboy, and the girl who can't shut up about crossfit isn't either. people are led on to believe that owning any shred of individuality is not worth moving from the status quo, and that its even dangerous to do so. Advertising is really all about getting us to take the easy route, and spending our hard earned money to take us there. Well fuck that, I want to shave with a straight edge razor, cook my own meals, grow my own vegetables, and wear and repairt he same pair of jeans until its little more then dust. I want to keep riding the shit bike that my dad rode when he was in college, build a squat rack out of 2X4s and concrete and run in my cracked New Balances. I'll work harder, love more, suffer greater and be better than any dicksoak that thinks he can find happiness by purchasing all of the Supreme F/W 2014 lineup.

>>5468461
are you from /fit/?

>>5468445
I'm a fascist. Nice try.

>>5468470
what tipped you off? the atrocious thought fragments and phrases that sound like they came from some motivational video? Yeah basically I guess. I really just come here to conjecture what I'd missing out by not commiting my thought-babies to paper in strange short term sci-fi shorts. Not much I guess.

>>5468478
The final part were you said "squat rack" plus all that naty diet made me realise you were from /fit/.

>>5468461
Because prior to this decade, most Americans spent most of their time in front of glowing furniture. (They still do, but which glowing furniture is shifting) Their experience of life was largely mediated by cultural tropes associated with that glowing furniture, and the purchased commodities were used as indicators of lifestyles not actually led.

Oh, wait. YOU'RE JUST EDGY AS FUCK BRO, THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WATCHING 6 HOURS OF TELEVISION A DAY COULD BOTHER YOU IS BECAUSE YOU'RE CONTRARIAN! I'M TRULY INSIGHTFUL BECAUSE I CELEBRATE MY CULTURE'S GLUT OF LOW-FAT HAMBURGERS AND DIET SODA.

Even /lit/ can't escape the poison of internet pseudointellectuals. The truth is not even advertisers believe they are disseminating information. Advertising is about creating needs where none existed. And modern advertising is a part of a frenetic acceleration associated with mass media.

Everyone loves to talk about capitalism, but modern society's structure has more to do with information dissemination. Television transformed society rapidly.

>>5468472
Well who said I was a socialist?

Tip-top kek, nobody cares.

>>5468489
I didn't say that I'm a Nazi, I said I'm a fascist.

>>5468495
>le third option

I think I speak for plenty of people when I say that I'm not particularly interested in hearing you flesh out the distinction.

>>5468502
I'm not third position, I'm far right in the vein of Hegel. I'm just not into the spiritual-racial-humanist-heteronormative bullshit of most of the far right, including Hegel. But I am a right-wing totalitarian, which I call "fascist" for lack of a better term.

>>5468509
You're right...

>le monocled Italian face

>>5468485
Well advertisements trigger contrarian views for a lot of reasons. They provoke insecurities, play on emotions, and at the end of the day attempt to manipulate you to sell the product. So what then has to be the natural solution to not going bankrupt then? Could it be that we have to supress our instinct of responding emotionally advertisements? OK, great, no problem. Well maybe a problem. Human to human interaction is absolutely stuffed with advertisements. Social systems are all built around advertising to other people "hey, I'm a cool person, you should hang out/ bang me because you'll be happy". Advertisers have to hit us harder since we have to try to ignore them now. So they hit us closer. they gather data and web analytics, they invest millions into predictive behavior analysis, throw tens of millions so that they can make it to the top spot on your google page..... Tangent damn, /pol/ is showing. Anyway Yadda yadda yadda corporations will pay money to turn our friends into shills yadda yadda yadda.

Frankly, I already forgot what I was talking about. The 6+ hours I spend in front of a screen every day have destroyed my attention span. Probably not cut out to have discussions on /lit/

>>5468516
I don't care for Evola for precisely the issues I mentioned.

>>5468509

>Hegel
>anything other than a Parliamentarian liberal

Maybe you should actually read the guy

>>5468509
literally no one is interested in hearing you explain your particular wonderful fascist views

>>5468522
>against public being allowed to vote
>against allowing people to criticize the state
"We must therefore worship the State as the Manifestation of the divine on earth"
Maybe you should.

>>5468524
>>5468509
false. tell me more. Are your convictions strong and true? like, is this shit gonna be on your tombstone
>>RIP Tyrannosaurus
>>Was he for real a fascist?
>>Probably

>>5468519
When I was going on my strawman diatribe, the contrarians I were referring to are the knee-jerk capitalists, who happen to be some of the dumbest most self-assured people on the internet. They're the people who say shit like "advertising doesn't effect me" or "free markets are best markets, proof: efficient hamburger production" etc. My point is: markets may be a form of information exchange. Mass media is a form of information exchange too. In a mass media society, capitalism only serves to concentrate wealth among the already wealthy. Capitalism is great at efficiently allocating resources to meet demands, the mass media is great at creating demands, creating demands through the mass media requires money... You can see how this cycle has been spinning like a flywheel since WWII.

>>5468535
>effect/affect mistake

I guess you can kill me now, /lit/

>>5468533

>against the public being allowed to vote

What the fuck part of "Parliamentarian liberal" do you not understand?

>>5468534
>here lies t. saurus he believed in debocracy :DDDD

>>5468535
like 99% of the reason I rail against it is because its so effective against me. A random friend posts about the new panda express on main street and an hour later I'm in fucking panda express trying to digest a mixture of what must be raw sewage and turnip greens held over in some nuclear fallout shelter since the 50's. It's pretty pathetic actually. I'll probably be ok to just adopt niche markets and feel all individualistic. Maybe buy an heirloom tomato once in a blue moon. Not so much a bang as a whimper eh? Don't judge me for wanting to be the hero in my decent world

>>5468548
What exactly is liberal about "Members of the agricultural class attain their position by birth, just as the monarch does. "

?

>>5468577
By the way, I am 100% sure you have never read The Philosophy of Right, and that you just heard Hegel was a liberal from someone else.

>>5468577

>Members of the agricultural class attain their position by birth, just as the monarch does.

>The principle of one of the classes of civil society is in itself capable of adaptation to this political position. The class in question is the one whose ethical life is natural, whose basis is family life, and, so far as its livelihood is concerned, the possession of land. Its particular members attain their position by birth, just as the monarch does, and, in common with him, they possess a will which rests on itself alone.

Actually the fucking sections, not just the headers. Twit.

>>5468587
tripfag just got BTFo

I understand that many of you, out of sheer self-consciousness, want to separate yourselves from the simplicity and sentiment of the comic, but is anything actually wrong with it? Advertising is practically psychological warfare. Defacing it is, if anything, a lightweight response.

>>5468577
>>5468586

>The state is the actuality of concrete freedom. But concrete freedom consists in this, that personal individuality and its particular interests not only achieve their complete development and gain explicit recognition for their right (as they do in the sphere of the family and civil society) but, for one thing, they also pass over of their own accord into the interest of the universal, and, for another thing, they know and will the universal; they even recognise it as their own substantive mind; they take it as their end and aim and are active in its pursuit. The result is that the universal does not prevail or achieve completion except along with particular interests and through the co-operation of particular knowing and willing; and individuals likewise do not live as private persons for their own ends alone, but in the very act of willing these they will the universal in the light of the universal, and their activity is consciously aimed at none but the universal end. The principle of modern states has prodigious strength and depth because it allows the principle of subjectivity to progress to its culmination in the extreme of self-subsistent personal particularity, and yet at the same time brings it back to the substantive unity and so maintains this unity in the principle of subjectivity itself.

>>5468603
Because enlightened post-modern folk don't like associating with sincere ideological devotion. It's trite. Enlightened folk hold all things in low-esteem, modern society, and rebels against modern society both.

>>5468613
I don't deny that he was an individualist, a liberal in that sense. That he believed in following your conscience above all else, and was critical of states which tried to replace that. But the mechanics of his ideal state are not liberal.

>>5468625

>Distinct separation of civil society and the state
>State functions to curb excesses of civil society, ameliorate certain "injustices," etc.
>Civil society otherwise allowed to operate along classical liberal lines

Bruh.

>>5468634
I don't have any issues with most civil liberties either. But you cannot really call anyone a liberal in the classical sense if they oppose democracy and right to criticize the state.

>>5468701
Also, Hegel's ideas on Corporations have a lot in common with corporatism

>As the family was the first, so the Corporation is the second ethical root of the state, the one planted in civil society.

>>5454080
this scene is great but i swear there's a more poignant example re: this topic in the later seasons?

>>5454080
How is this scene poignant in any way? This is the exact same bullshit portrayals of beatniks and suits as seen on every television show ever.

>"You just exploit people!"

>"You're a lazy do nothing, go make something of yourself. My money speaks to my societal worth! The universe is indifferent."

>*beatniks look visibly distressed*

I never got why Mad Men was considered poignant. It seems largely Onanistic too, of course a bunch of television writers would love to glorify the frontier media manipulators.

>>5468535
>society only serves to concentrate wealth among the already wealthy.

paraphrased to remove redundant words

>>5468787
Yeah, essentially. Wealth concentrations has always existed among the landed classes, hence the earliest formulations of capitalism being about private property.

But modern capitalism is different. It's less about parcels of land, than it is about ownership of channels. People are funneled in and out of climate controlled boxes all across the various cities of a nation, but they all share a common culture with the television.

It has truly reshaped society.

>>5468783
>this is wrong and immoral and disgusting
>by the way we're going to make it look glamorous so you can feel like a hypocrite for finding it appealing

Same issue with American Psycho and Scarface

>>5468783
You appear to really think that scene is a straightforward endorsement of Draper's views, which means you are probably beyond hope or argument.

>>5468803
I'm not trying to be edgy here, but I honestly didn't find the life Bates leads in American Psycho appealing, same with Mad Men (the little I saw of it). I mean, there is the fantastic wealth, but in American Psycho especially there is a heavy focus on making it obvious what a spectacle of appearances it really is.

>>5468812
There is a heavy focus on that, but there is a lot of effort to make the superficiality exciting, stylish and very, very sexy.

>>5462776
>The internet has given rise to cultural production that are distinctly people's own output.

What fucking planet do you live on?

>>5468791
I think all that's changed is that society has become stable and affluent enough that channels like "I have a big army" and "I am head of a religion and can excommunicate you" have receded in direct relevance. A modern channel like a major media corporation can ultimately only directly control how people think. In earlier societies the hierarchy didn't care 95% of the population thought, because they were only needed as chattels and footsoldiers.

The reactionary attitude against people who protest about something like advertising might arguably be justified by drawing a comparison between how much direct harm an advert does, compared to something like having your village burned and all your livestock stolen in October because Ceaser's army needs to live off the land.

My point is that the very idea that an individual's psychological well-being has value is relatively modern. Advertizing emerged at the same time, and in a sense endorses the value now placed on the individual by treating our choice of soap as something worth spending money to influence. The rationale is that our choice of church would have been enforced in a much less humanitarian manner previously, so what's the big deal?

>>5457696
Very easy to criticize Stalinism in the 1960s.

Didn't say shit about Stasi, though.

>>5468810
It is an implicit, if not explicit endorsement. Even in the most critical light you can cast on that scene, Draper's views meet no resistance. Meaning at best this treasured piece of television with "muh flawed characters" is at best contributing to the total cultural hegemony of modern mass-media-capitalism. Not that I expected differently.

>>5468828
There is no reason to make a comparison like that. Yes, there is no forceful coercion for the most part, certainly not for television viewers. But never before has there been such a clear, long, and uninterrupted channel for direct propaganda from the ruling classes to the lower classes. This presents a cultural domination tantamount to brainwashing, especially for those who grew up largely with television serving as surrogate parents.

It's just a completely different game.

The ruling class used to shoot at the lower class. Now of course violence isn't employed, it's unnecessary because the lower class is culturally subordinated from the beginning. You can bet your ass violence would be employed if there was a reason, but there isn't because there's no struggle.

>>5450831
What do companies that advertise owe me exactly?

>>5450831
Modern Western society (in general):
>longest lifespan
>highest development
>best medical science
>best science overall
>safest and least taxing labor
>...

Man has never had it so good as in Western society.
Only downside is things like advertising.

Boo-fucking-hoo.

Complaining about advertising is like feminists complaining about stare rape.

>>5468985
you imply that nobody should even dare to think about the downsides? i wonder where the western society would have been if people of the former ages had thought the same

>>5468990
>you imply that nobody should even dare to think about the downsides?
Absolutely not.

>>5468990
Advertising is a downside you can't really get rid of in modern capitalist society though.

>>5468985

>>5469023
>implying modern Western society isn't actually best system there is, or ever was
>comparing advertisement to ripping hearts out of live humans as a means of sacrifice

>>5468985

>Only downside is things like advertising.

And how does that Western part of the world get to have it so good?
Oh wait, because it has corporate latifundia in other parts of the world!

>>5469026

Why is it that you guys always ignore that this is to the detriment of 3rd world nations?

>>5469028
>And how does that Western part of the world get to have it so good?

Good economic system, enlightened ideals, objective science, ...

>>5469031
How?

>>5468985
>longest lifespan

I'd rather take forty years in ancient Rome than eighty in modern America. And yes, even as a slave.

>highest development

Yeah fucking right. Western culture is in developmental arrest. Adults justifying childish behavior ad nauseam.

>best medical science

Best medical development, you mean. But give any classically educated culture that technology and see how much better and less stunted it would be.

>best science overall

How can a "science" be the best? There's only one scientific method. The discoveries made in modern times stand on the backs of older discoveries.

>safest and least taxing labor

Safety is only such a high priority now because of lawsuits and the dumbing down of the common employee. Labor never needed to be less taxing. Hard work is good for you.

Anyway, your dichotomy is shit. Even if your arguments were valid, living in relative comfort doesn't foreclose your ability to criticize awful shit.

>>5469026

>I can't imagine an even BETTER world

That seems to be a personal problem: a lack of creative thinking and contentment with the status quo.
Some folks think we can do it better still.

>durr dose are hippie loser shits who dont wanna work. i worked and i know what it takes to achieve stuff in life and if u complain about adds hahahaha go to north korea u gender studies shithead

I know a board just for you.

>>5469032

I don't even know where to start with this. Maybe read the Zadie Smith essay on Liberia,

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2007/apr/29/features.magazine87

>>5469032

Ok so you can't into comprehensive reading.
Bye.

>>5469035
>I can't imagine an even BETTER world
I sure can.
But at the moment it's the best it's ever been, and advertising happens to be an integral part of it.

If you have a better solution, put it forth.
But don't attack advertisement like it's anything other than an extremely minor foible in an otherwise extremely beneficial system.

>>5469036

Oh the first part is here. It's a pretty good read.

>>5469026

>he doesn't know the cobalt in his laptop/phone is mined by Congolese wage slaves in the worst of conditions, exposed to radiation on a daily basis

Yeah it's definitely our white god tier genes that made the Euro-Atlantic emerge ex nihilo to hi-tech post-industrialism.

>>5469036
Shit happens everywhere.
Doesn't mean Western society isn't what it is.

>>5469037
Nice argument.

>>5469040

Here means here:
http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2007/apr/29/features.magazine77

>>5450888
You clearly don't understand how ads work. They are subtly affecting you, whether you like it or not. You can't not read an ad in front of you. It is rape.

>>5469043

If you think in an age of globalism the economic system itself is partial and not global, you should think again. And again. And again.
Because you're missing a lot of shit.

>>5469042
Congo is as Congo does.

Nothing's stopping them from evolving like Europe. In fact they should be doing it at lightning pace considering their natural wealth.

>>5469047
>advertisement is rape

Called it.

>>5469039
>and advertising happens to be an integral part of it.

I didn't think you could out-retard yourself, but here we are. What has advertising contributed to the world being "the best it's ever been"?

>>5469048
There's nothing stopping underdeveloped areas from developing.

Should be pretty straightforward considering they only have to catch up to the Western example.

Places like Japan did it admirably, and places like China and India appear to be on their way.

>>5468461
It's quite a sad time that more people don't actually grow their own vegetables. I know it takes time and effort which not everybody has, but just think of the amount of money you'd save, plus how much better fresh veg tastes...

>>5469049

You really didn't read anyone's reply or you just don't have the brain to get it.

Again, there's a board just for you where you can gaze in wonder at how Africa can't develop probably because of their Homo Erectus brain or something.

>>5469050
kawaii! <3

Everyone in this thread saying how innocuous and ineffective ads are proof that they work. Even if an ad doesn't prompt you to buy a product, it guides your perception of the subject matter used by it -- often in very subtle ways. And half the time they are only fostering certain perceptions to induct others. Ads are very psychologically layered. Try to examine your definition of desirable.

>>5469049

Why are you on the literature board if you're not even going to read a two page article I sent you, which directly refutes what you're saying, and instead just keep spewing bullshit?

>>5469055

>Places like Japan did it admirably, and places like China and India appear to be on their way.

Oh and where are they getting their resources to make that happen?
Right.

>>5469053
Advertisement is an integral part of capitalism, and capitalism is the economic basis for the modern Western society.

>>5469057
Congo has natural resources out the ass, they could skyrocket towards the top of modern civilization under the right circumstances.

>>5469063
>a two page article I sent you
What are you talking about?

>>5469064
What?

>>5469055

Yeah the World Bank's making it really easy for everyone odwn there.
Not to mention every semi-developping nation descends as a hawk upon that continent to grab and loot the shit out of it.
At least the Chinese and Indians leave somewhat of an infrastructure, but doesn't give a fuck about human rights as we can expect.

>>5469055
The idea is to prevent them from copying the western model of society and instead help them to create something more sustainable

>>5469065

Yeah the West is definitely gonna let that happen.
Have them and other African nations have a firm grip on their own resources.
Definitely something the West would be cool with.

>>5469050
What?

If you mean this post...

>>5468985

I don't see the correlation. And this post itself is such a warped materialistic view directly resultant of the system it defends.

>>5469070
Shit happens, yes.

Doesn't mean Western society isn't the best man has ever known.

>>5469071
Western society is rapidly evolving towards sustainability. They're at the forefront of it.

>>5469076
>Yeah the West is definitely gonna let that happen.
Here come the conspiracy theories.

>Definitely something the West would be cool with.
The West's involvement in places like Congo is very limited. On purpose.

>>5469079
>If you mean this post...
Yes I do.

>I don't see the correlation.
You should, because in that post I literally said: "Complaining about advertising is like feminists complaining about stare rape."

>>5469082

World history is the shit that happened.
Africa was rather well-off before it turned it into a pie chart.

Captcha: 1492

>>5469068

I linked an article that explains what happened in Liberia, (western companies sucking the lifeblood out of the land and the people), you just replied with 'shit happens everywhere'. Nope. It doesn't. It doesn't happen in the western world. And then you're asking why Congo doesn't just use their resources to skyrocket. Because they don't own the resources. But you ignore this.

/lit/ gets a lot of shit talked about its pseudo-intellectualism, but it's nothing compared to your anti-intellectualism. Go back to /pol/.

Go back to /pol/.

>>5468985
Man has never been less free than in Western society. At least the slaves of the past had chains they could see, but the modern man is indentured in a subtler, consciously and unconsciously, everything you think has been predatorily instilled in you by those similarly affected. It only stands to get worse.

>>5469082
>Western society is rapidly evolving towards sustainability.

then why are so many countries in recessions?

>>5469087
>Africa was rather well-off
I'm a pretty big fan of "innocent" primitive cultures.

But the fact of the matter is you can't unring a bell. As it stands they can either go back to being primitive tribes, or grab modern development with both hands and rise above.

The state they're in right now is shit.

>>5469092
>I linked an article to an anecdote

ftfy

Shit happens, but you can't claim that Wester society gains all of its wealth and progress from exploiting third-world nations.

>>5469101

YOU DID NOT READ IT. PLEASE GO BACK TO /POL/ OR ADOPT A TRIP.

>>5469086
Maybe you think my rape comment was facetious, but it wasn't. Ads are everywhere in the public space, even in the fucking sky, and just being exposed to them they influence. Did you consent to being reeducated? Obviously not.

>>5469098
>Man has never been less free than in Western society.
Haha, ok.

>>5469099
I thought you were talking about environmental sustainability.

And those recessions are extremely minor bumps in the road for Western society.

>>5469104
>pls read my anecdote about Liberia, it proves Western society a shit
No.

>>5469108
>Maybe you think my rape comment was facetious, but it wasn't.
I'm sure your comment was sincere.

I even called it.

>"advertisement is rape!"
Jesus fucking christ.

>>5469113
You're incoherent and patently stupid.

>>5469117
If you say so.

>>5469113
Slaves learn to love their shackles.

>itt: "i'd rather be a noble, but short-lived savage who has to struggle for survival than a resident of the degenerate modern Western society that rapes me with its advertisements"

Protip: you can live the life of a noble, but short-lived savage who has to struggle for survival right now if you want.

Just pay your way to any of the underdeveloped areas in the world.

>>5469122
I can remove myself from the "shackles" of Western society very easily, simply by buying an airplane ticket and maybe a couple of bus or boat rides to the African jungle for instance.

sure is /pol/ in here

what a shock that ethnocentric idiots love the system that uses them and is needed to make them feel good about themselves

>>5469131
>ethnocentric idiots love the system that uses them
If I didn't love it, I'd leave.

Why don't you?

>>5469123
you too can buy fulfillment and validation like in that book or movie you know

>>5469127
you can't undo conditioning this vast so simply

>>5469132

You really sound like a South Park carricature right now.

>if u dont like it u can giiiiiiiiiiiiiit out

last men

Even if advertising didn't work it would simply be yet another good reason to get rid of it.

I don't see how advertising is something that has to be bound up to capitalism necessarily.
The way most advertising work is to associate positive feelings with brand names and products in order to create a subconscious inclination to buy from certain brand names, by further creating or playing on the sense of inadequacy most people feel in a society that is largely run on the fear/insecurity of not being able to maintain a shallow mere appearance of being a success and winning at all times.

If there was to be a limitation of advertising down to announcements in a certain few public places with the listing of specifications, it would become much more difficult for the most useless, inefficient, and exploitative to survive--when they primarily rely on advertising and flattery to merely appear better than other alternatives, as it's not really competition in the sense of performing the work itself the best way possible. Instead it's simply to compete in creating the best positive PR image of it by beauty contest.

Advertising are a few of those things that needs to be regulated in order for capitalism to work steadily at all in my view. If only because it's a subliminal attempt to make people behave in irrational and idiotic ways, and should be considered a mental pollutant that pose a danger and annoyance to people who are more fit intellectually.

To just look away from an ad is not a solution because to look away from it you would already have had to have seen it and identified it as an ad; but it's exactly this kind of moronic way of thinking that mental pollutants such as advertising and propanganda encourage in people with the avoidance of logic and fact in favor of argument by emotional temper fits and loyalty to feel-good ideas that are not likely to be examined by reason.

>>5469133
>you too can buy fulfillment and validation like in that book or movie you know
What?

>you can't undo conditioning this vast so simply
So the solution is to stay where you are being conditioned?
Stop being lazy, leave if you so despise the modern West.

>>5469135
It's the simple, basic truth.
You resent the current system vehemently, so the obvious solution is to remove yourself from it.
Which is a very easy thing to do.

>>5469137

Nietzsche warned us.

>Which is a very easy thing to do.

This might be up your alley,
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization

>>5469141
>What?
That word suits you.

>>5469137

;)

>>5469113
>And those recessions are extremely minor bumps in the road for Western society.

minor? ever hear of the eurozone crisis? or the fact that japan is ten *trillion* dollars in debt? the united states seventeen trillion dollars in debt?

i think they're predictive data rather than bumps.

>>5469113
>And those recessions are extremely minor bumps in the road for Western society.


kek

Western Society is so clearly on the decline. Thank fuck.

>>5469138
>The way most advertising work is to associate positive feelings with brand names and products in order to create a subconscious inclination to buy from certain brand names

Advertising these days seems to sell lifestyles more than products, which is even more pernicious.

>you too can buy fulfillment and validation like in that book or movie you know

I'm going to steal this.

>>5469150
There are millions of places you can go to get away from Western society, from nearby forests to faraway tundras, jungles, islands, or marshlands.

Stop being lazy and making excuses.

>>5469151
>i had no point actually
I figures as much.

>>5469160
I feel awful for the youth of today. Indoctrinated into being vulgar, belligerent, idiots...and thinking it the height of being.

>>5469153
>ever hear of the eurozone crisis?
I live in the eurozone, the effects here were minimal.

Far worse recessions have happened, and society has continued to advance.

>>5469156
Far worse recessions have happened, and society has continued to advance.

>>5469173
Yeah man, keep paying into that pension.

>>5469163
Don't, it's been done to death in books, movies, songs, TV, ...

>>5469173
>Far worse recessions have happened, and society has continued to advance.

no thanks to those darkies

>>5469137
>tfw safe and warm

Bretty good.

>>5468924
two points:

i)
>never before has there been such a clear, long, and uninterrupted channel for direct propaganda from the ruling classes to the lower classes

religion was the original justification for there being a ruling class. it was pretty clear and uninterrupted, as it wasn't competing with anything else (for example, the artistic content TV networks rely on to get people to watch adverts). that seems like a legit comparison to me, especially if we're talking about "a cultural domination tantamount to brainwashing".

ii)

I think you're giving advertizing too much credit for being organized AND for originating from a distinct ruling class. Advertizing is done to make money first and foremost: the menu of a chinese takeaway posted through your door is advertizing. Promotional campaigns regularly fail and cost more than they make. Any "ruling class" is no less limited by its own competence than the Kings of medieval Europe. Etc.

My principle criticism is that I see you as overreacting to the alleged evils of advertizing, I wouldn't argue that it has no effect. I see the real culprit as human nature, specifically the need to "find something to worship", and advertizing is just a reflection of that gullibility and desire to be led.

>>5469151
>u r dumb!
>>5469178
>u r racis!

Keep them arguments coming.

>>5469131
Fascists don't love capitalism.

There is nothing idiotic about ethnocentrism. It's a value. You can be class-centered, community-centered, family-centered, self-centered. Spirituality is a valuation of what doesn't exist, but bar that, no value system is intrinsically more stupid than another. But money-centric is a bit tragic, because it becomes a monster larger than the human race. The free market determines the value of human life, and it's not much. It breaks apart all other values, racial, community, class, nationality, even self-value, you become neurotically obsessed with output to your own unhappiness. Nothing is worth anything to the free market except for marketing. And we all become slaves to that, even the marketers and the bourgeoisie, who care about it more than their own lives. Thoughts are designed to generate production and consumption, indoctrinated so deep no one knows the difference between them and reality. We don't want reality any more. Fantasy becomes our source of relief from the empty world we created. Consumerism, digital entertainment.

"What the English call ‘comfort’ is something inexhaustible and illimitable. Others can discover to you that what you take to be comfort at any stage is discomfort, and these discoveries never come to an end. Hence the need for greater comfort does not exactly arise within you directly; it is suggested to you by those who hope to make a profit from its creation."
-Hegel

>>5469178
Well...what have they ever contributed?

Individuality is for faggots.

>>5469135
Pretty much.

2/10 shit troll

Babbitt

>>5469193
>"waah waah! I hate Western society so much! It keeps RAPING me with advertisements! It keeps making me WORK for sustenance!"

You can leave any time you want.

http://youtu.be/6fZZqDJXOVg

ebik

conform!

>>5469196
>You can leave any time you want.

STOP RAPING ME WITH YOUR LOGIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>5469205
>"being against a war is the same as being against capitalism"

Good one.

>>5469192
I'm pretty sure faggotry is among the things sold these days.

>>5469211

well that certainly explains why anons are such staunch assmad defenders of capitalism

>>5469181
>it was pretty clear and uninterrupted

there were no telecommunication systems, less people could read, so any propaganda was much less consistent and more based on hearsay. and religion had no competition? might want to look into the history of theology. there was plenty of competition within the sphere of religion and religious interpretation. one interpretation could get you exiled, another excommunicated. and if you wanted to avoid getting killed, you could just go like twenty miles away and nobody would be able to find you. shit was much easier to avoid. modern advertising's sheer psyop-like ubiquity has no historical precedent.

i'm not the person you're responding to here, but maybe "ruling class" is the wrong term to use. perhaps "people with the longest reach", which tend to be large billion dollar companies with monetary control over communications. these companies don't have governmental power, but they have power and "rule" in a sense. i don't think it is "human nature" to be led, i think that's a learned dependency.

>>5469160
I suppose advertising has its place, but certainly not to the extent it has now.

Even if the propaganda of the past can be considered to be worse--and in many ways we live with more opportunities--that doesn't mean we should slack in our effort to improve or criticize current issues.

It's a process that we have to maintain with effort for all eternity.
When we fail to criticize and receive criticism ourselves, it simply means deterioration in our own improvement on the line of human evolution; along with the opportunities available to us in society at large.

>>5469230
There's criticism, and then there's saying "advertisement is rape".

>>5469237
There were hundreds of posts before anyone said anything like that and yet you still came in with your false dichotomy of medicine in the past and the present.

>>5469242
>There were hundreds of posts before anyone said anything like that
The pic in the OP said pretty much exactly that.

>false dichotomy of medicine in the past and the present.
Medicine is only part of what makes Western society.

I simply put your little woes about advertisement into context, which was sorely needed.

Yes it's annoying, but no more than that.
And it pales in comparison to the massive boons of capitalism.

>>5464549
>>5464599
>>5464605
>>5464953
>>5465833
It takes a little deciphering, because it's decidedly poorly made, but here's what it is: with each stage of Robin Williams's career, Zen Pencils thinks he's advanced onto another level. Somehow, after the awful "Night at the Museum" flicks, he has advanced to the summit of life--that is, he reached the final boss.

But, when you kill the final boss you don't die, yourself. The 'comic' implies that just as Williams 'won' the game of life, he died suddenly or even necessarily.

I wouldn't be surprised if a teenager or two made this, as it's ridiculous and faulty, but there it is.

>>5469181
It's odd because I was going to use the comparison to religion as a support for my point: the modern American invest far more time in television than the medieval serf invested in the church.

As for two, people always seem to mistake organization for organizing. Bee hives have an organization without an organizer.

The mere sedentary act of watching television is exclusionary to social bonds that used to be the fabric of all cultures. There is, now, social surrogacy in all forms. Humans have largely supplanted real social interaction with pseudo-interactions.

The consequences of this shift are not limited to politics. But the fact that this social surrogacy is largely mediated by political messages (advertising) is an unavoidable element of any analysis of the effects of television.

>>5450831
I like the quote but the comic is faggy.
Like nigga, Just look away. Shit.