/lit/ - Literature

>>5378573
there is no morally wrong or right, so the only right answer is to pull it to get the satisfaction of pulling a lever

>>5378573
can't i just ignore it?

>>5378585
I like that reasoning.

>>5378573
What if the other five raped and murdered children, and the one guy is an extremely important scientist who is close to curing cancer?

>>5378573
Oh anon you thinki have morals that is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, I will switch the train your way you deserve a quick death for being nice to me.

>>5378589
And what if the one guy is a tyrant who slaughtered thousands of children and the five guys are extremely important scientists who are close to curing cancer?

It doesn't matter.

>>5378596
If you claim morals exist it obviously matters.

>>5378596

What if you are cancer?

>>5378573

useless doggerel of a problem

>>5378585
But why would you pull it only once if it gives you satisfaction?

>>5378573
It's to do nothing.

"hurdur thats still a moral choice"

Doesn't matter.

>>5378573
that switch is clearly not connected to anything. the moral thing would be to topple the trolley, as it is clearly the same height as you and is probably not going very fast.

>>5378616
Breaking it seems fun too. Throwing it at things then also holds appeal.

>>5378619

I bet you're a fascinating conversationalist.

>>5378616
im a one pull kind of guy, after the initial reaction, the magic wears off

>>5378573

>>5378626
This is tired thread and I'm shitposting accordingly.

>>5378641
man this boards shitposting sucks, we need new ideas

>>5378659
What if it was a boat on the tracks?

>>5378671
fucking genius, k 1 sec

>>5378671

>>5378631
finally a real conundrum!!

shitlord

>>5378691
Fucking amazing. I find myself at a complete loss to the moral practicalities of the world as I perceive it and this immediately forces me to face the question of my being being in relation to these entities and my being therefore itself.

>>5378691

Fuck you nietzsche

>>5378585
It is not the pulling of the lever that you want, it is the anticipation of pulling or not pulling the lever. The forever deferred possibility of pulling the lever is the real source of pleasure, hence why this thread will be reposted every day until the end of time.

>>5378706
Hah I got that reference...I think. Sail right over and break morality line from B G&E?

>>5378573
But how do we even know the lever controls that tracks? It's not even immediately obvious that it controls it. If we make the decision one way or the other and then nothing happens, are we still accountable for that choice?

Use the pogo stick to get away fast before there is an accident

>>5378573
Pulling the lever would be murder, so no.

>>5378735
What if it was a shiny lever?

>>5378573
Use the club I'm leaning on to bash everyone's brains out before the trolley can run over them. No trolley is gonna steal my kills!

>>5378587
That is the answer.

But these people never let it go.

>>5378573
Why would you be searching for metals at such situation?!

>muh utilitarianism

I would pull the lever halfway and hope the the tracks get fucked, the train skips or crashes, and goes through the middle. Since I don't know the outcome, the probability of dying for both top and bottom is the same. Finally, I got to play around with the system and to explore my options, which is my responsibility as a person that is exposed to this scene.

>>5378573

I would just snort coke off the rail-tracks

>>5378631
>white man problems

>>5378631
>>>/v/

>>5378573
Flip Switch to halfway.

Derail trolley.

>>5378821
>>5379020

I think this is the best answer.

when you try to go halfway, you might not cause any effect, so it's like you didn't do anything (which many people want to believe is the right thing)

by trying something different, you are creating more options and you get rid of your responsibility (because now you don't know the outcome and can't control it)

finally, humans are scientific creatures. we exist today because we left caves, went into the oceans, tried eating eggs to see what happens, went to space, etc. this is the way to approach anything: see what the fuck happens when I do new things.

>>5378573
The problem is to prevent whatever lead to the situation that one person is having the power over the lives of others.

>>5379136
no it's not. your response falls into the 'do nothing' category, expect the stick figure has his arms crossed and is just whining to the air about bullshit that is obviously relevant to what happened, but would not fucking change a thing for that particular situation. even if the dude fixed society magically in one day and no other people would be tied to tracks ever again in life, those dudes would still be kill.

first I thought pulling the lever is the moral choice because doing nothing is acting on it as well. but if you look at the surgeon analogy it becomes clear that doing nothing is he right answer.

>>5379180
>surgeon analogy
?

>>5379191

I think he's talking about the variation where the surgeon could kill 1 person to harvest his organs and save the lives of 5 people, and be justified according to utilitarianism.

>>5378573
Why do we assume that the person by the lever isn't the same person who's tied the people to the tricks and laid them out upon it, with the intention of murdering it?

Discuss not the moral dilemma, but the satisfactory one.

Who would be more pleasurable to kill?

You fucking mongols. The correct answer depends on which theory you use to arrive at a justification for inaction or action, not your personal fucking preference. Fuck.

Drag the lone guy to the other 5. Kill them all.

Use the giant pencil and eraser to draw new tracks.

JUMP FATASS JUMP

>>5378747

How Can The Train Be Real If We're Not Real

>>5379246
this is correct. life is an abomination

>>5378706
>out-fucking-standing.jpg

I'd save whoever could pay me more. If they stiff me, then they're going right back on the tracks.

>yfw the metro is actually travelling in the other direction and all you sperg retards achieve by pulling the lever is turning it around and killing the people

>>5378599
The point is that, because you don't know, every one of the people is in a superposition of both.

>>5378735
(Male) masturbation is murder.

>>5379970
throw yourself on the carriage pushing it off the tracks

>>5379970
>doesn't include the option to kill yourself
>doesn't include the option to snap off the lever and throw it in the spokes of the trolley wheels
>doesn't include going over to lay next to the one person so that you can justify your decision as you feel the value of your life is at least equivalent to four other people

What about if you flipped the lever twice - back so it was in it's original position
Is that worse or equal to you not flipping it at all
?

>>5380035
You could in reality adjust the lever just so that the tram would either get stuck between the lines, or derail and move between the two lanes across the grass. It's an extremely flawed thought experiment

>>5380028
>>doesnt include going over to lay next to the one person so that you can justify your decision as you feel the value of your life is at least equivalent to four other people
I'd go for this one. We could have a nice talk before we die with the one who dies for having no friends next to him.

>>5378735
Not pulling the lever would be murdering four additional people for the selfish reason of not wanting to get involved.

However, if you know nothing of why the people are there and have reason to suspect that getting involved in changing the outcome may have unknown, undesirable effects, or that this type of behavior may have negative consequences for society if larger numbers of people were encouraged to behave in that way, then it may not be wise to pull the lever. These kinds of problems always ignore that though, which makes them useless to apply to actual real life situations where context is supremely important.

>>5378631
THatpicturewithdoubletrackdrifting.jpg

>>5379082
What, no one has an answer to this one? Fucking /lit/, probaly thought that was too much to read.`

>>5380671
No I'm just stumped.

They all shoud roll out of the trail

>>5379082

This is a satire on logic dilemmas right?

Guys! Here is the correct moral answer, and i dare you to argue with me. Pull the lever then try your best to save the one guy. You may not be able to make it in time but at least you tried. It is impossible to untie five people in time, but if its just one there is a sliver of a possibilty you can save his life.
This course of action is the most logical solution,

>>5378573

You don't "pull the lever" all the time.

Stop being a smug asshole on a safe, anonymous image board and go outside and help someone, or fuck off.

Either way, noone gives a fuck.

>>5378573
You don't pull the lever. That way you're not responsible for any deaths. The guy who tied them to the tracks is.

Man moral philosophy is easy.

Yeah, so long as you don't push the lever to inflate the wheels, I don't think those guys are going to die. What's the problem?

>>5378573
>your face when pulling the lever merges the tracks and they all die

All of you are fucking autists.
Obviously you pull the lever. One human life is less than 5. It really is that simple.

>>5378573
You can't stop the train. You can't pull any of them off of the track. You can't weight the lives of any of the persons because you know nothing about them, but even if you did you don't know which track the train is going to take whether you pull the lever or not. Sometimes you can do everything you need to exactly as you should and still fail. In this case, you can't do anything: you're a precariously-involved bystander. The only thing left is to accept that life is a set game with no real options for any of us, except to let it go.

...But if you pull the lever you're contributing further to the already over-population of our fragile planet and plundering of it's natural resources

>>5380821
I would still like to hear an argument against this.

>>5380915
>The only thing left is to accept that life is a set game with no real options for any of us, except to let it go...

...and then pull the lever.

>>5378589
That's why we ought to operate under categorical imperatives instead of hypothetical imperative ;)

A person in the original position would agree that individuals cannot be morally obligated by the community to either pull the lever or not pull the lever, as that would limit his own agency and ability to pursue his own good due to possible self-doubt from pulling the lever crippling his self-esteem without any compensation in additional freedom. Therefore, justice does not require nor discourage action in any way. Effects on the freedom of future generations, like >>5380951 suggests, require looking past the veil of ignorance for information on the subsequent children the individuals hypothetically would have had, and this point is therefore morally irrellevant.

In a way analogous to justice as fairness, we can find out virtue as fairness by looking at the situation again from the original position, but including the willingness of the individual to be self-sacrificial. Given that keeping four more people alive would provide more security for the state, and a higher amount of freedom as a whole both for the survivors and the community at large, a collection of individuals in the original position would prefer the self-sacrifice of the lever-puller and the lone individual over the self-sacrifice of the five individuals.

Pulling the lever is the only fair option from the point of view of virtue. However, both options are just.

"Rut whence do we know that this principle applies in the case of a murder? — This is reasonable. For there was a man who came before Raba and said to him: The lord of my village told me: Kill so-and-so, and if you will not, I shall kill you! — He [Raba] answered: Let him kill you, but do not kill! What makes you see that your blood is redder than his? Perhaps the blood of that man is redder than yours?" - Bavli Talmud, Yoma 82b

>>5378910
Use your strength to pull yourselff off the ground with the lever

To exist is to suffer.

By killing the single one you'll only extend the suffering of the 5 others.

>>5380126

By ignoring the lever you are responsible for the death of the 5. To not make the choice is a choice. Given the choice between 5 people dying and 1 then the 1 should die.

How about now, /lit/?

>>5382176
>5 40 year old rapists and murders should live so 1 8 year old child can die

>thinking any situation is black and white

>>5382304
>1 8 year old
>child

Is it true that Americans live with their parents until they're 40?

>>5382324
>there is clearly a space between 1 and 8

is it true that european education is at an all time low?

>>5382324
Depends on where you live.

In the rural areas you can move at at 18 and you're fine.

In expensive places, NYC (unless you want to live in niggertown), LA/SD Metro area, it's going to take an actual job to afford a proper living space alone.

>>5378631
It's easier to beat up one tied up person than five.

>>5378585
That's stupid. You are about to witness a spectacle most can only see in gritty Hollywood slasher films. Getting a good seat is the biggest priority and pulling the lever only wastes time.

>>5379128
But part of the problem is knowing that trying to put the switch halfway to derail the trolley is pointless. There is no effect.

>>5382476
no, the real dilemma is you don't know who is inside the trolley. it could have 100's of people who die in the wreck

>>5378573

>>5382488

>>5379208
but you choose which theory

dunno why you're so mad

Anyone keeping count of how many people /lit/ has killed since the start of this meme?

>>5382558
6 million

>>5382201

DON'T YOU TOUCH THAT FUCKING LEVER.

>>5380817
Yes. And a very good one at that.

How does this change the situation, /lit/?

>>5378691
>>5378704
Holy hell I love these threads because of stuff like this

>>5382684
It doesn't. You always pull the lever.

>>5384483
>tripcode poster
i dont care how sexy that bitch is, she's gotta die

>>5378573
posted this in another thread, but:

that train is on a schedule and other trains are as well, presumably made to accommodate the schedules of each other.
that being said, changing the direction of that train would mean it is going somewhere the rail company is not expecting it to go.

best case scenario from pulling the lever: one person dies and the train is stopped at the wrong station, causing confusion

worst case scenario from pulling that lever: one person dies initially, then a collision occurs. maybe with a passenger train or one carrying toxic cargo. i cant say or certain how many deaths that would cause, but it would sure as hell be more than 5

i would pull the lever so the five people think they're saved and the one person is plunged into despair, then at the last minute i would pull it back again just to fuck with everyone

>>5378573
but what if those are 5 criminals that were destined to get the firing squad later that day and on the other was your innocent brother? you dont know and there is no way of knowing therefore it is impossible to act in a reasonable manner therefore discussing this is about as productive as flipping a coin

It's a runaway train
Running right off the track
Yeah, a runaway train
She's coming right off the track

>>5384671
Runaway train never going back
Wrong way on a oneway track
Seems like I should be getting somewhere
somehow I'm neither here nor there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRtvqT_wMeY

>>5384671
live at river plate is GOAT

I just wouldnt pull the lever. I didn't create the situation. Not going to let it turn me into a murderer.

>>5384680
I'm a runaway train on a broken track
I'm the ticker on a bomb that won't turn back
This time
That's right

>>5379208
>fucking mongols
Yeah fuck you too buddy

>>5382463
real life gore isn't as theatrical or intense as Hollywood or video game gore. I'm sure the feeling of being in the moment of seeing somebody get #rekt must be pretty crazy, but without all the hype around it dead people are just sorta dead people
I mean look at all the Allahu Akbar A-rab retardation videos on LiveLeak. Arab go boom, his friends make some sad noise, then they keep fighting or they throw him on a stretcher.
Even the gore itself sorta just looks like bloody meat instead of the horrorfest they make it out to be in movies

>>5378573
There is no 'right' answer, it's all subjective. If you value human life, make it run over 1 dude, if you think overpopulation is a problem, kill 5 guys.
You could also not give a shit and just like to pull levers.
There is literally no right answer OP

>>5384851

Thanks pal, I didn't know morals weren't objective rules. Really made everything clear didn't yah.

>>5384855
If you knew that then why did you make this post?

>>5384802
>real life gore isn't as theatrical or intense as Hollywood or video game gore

You sound like you're an expert on this topic.

>>5378585
I think you just solved it. Levers are quite satisfying to pull.

But what if the choice was between pulling a lever and pressing a button?

>>5378573
The onyl good response if all the kids are utilitarian.

Where do I sit if I let the four die then give the guy left a blowjob, but strangle him after becuase I don't want him telling people so that they think I'm gay, cause I'm not not, he is for having his dick sucked by another dude?

>>5378573
Five humans cause more net suffering than one. Easy choice. If possible, kill the lone guy and then yourself as well.

>>5385022
Living is suffering (Buddhism, Nietzsche), therefore a quick painless death is preferable to continued existence. Allow the trolley to roll over the five while you take the lever and beat the remaining person to death before going over to the other moral dilemma and throwing yourself off a bridge.

>>5385111
Is there an echo in here?