/lit/ - Literature

I'd tell you you're a fag and that your posting of this shit thread originates from your feelings of self-disempowerment caused by the time your dad bought you Oreos instead of Chips Ahoy! cookies

What If I Told You That Mirrors Can't Be Real Because Our Eyes Aren't Real?

>>5352740
That would actually make sense. It probably is the case.

Poor Georg Willi...

Hegel was RIGHT

>>5352793
>Georg Willi

>>5352740
i would tell you to remove the shift key from your keyboard, because as annoying as it might be to see no letters capitalized, it is far more annoying when you capitalize the first letter of every word.

>>5352740
I would say: go to bed Freud.

>>5352740
Of course this is as obvious as it gets. Same with Schopenhaurs negation of everything because he was butthurt his mom was way cooler than him.

>>5352740
>His Father
you mean Kant?

Jaden Smith, pls go

>>5352740
No it's actually from him raping the housemaid.
>There is one unusual case of a personal friendship between Hegel and a Catholic, Nannette Endel, that warrants retelling. In 1796, when a young Hegel was only a lowly Hauslehrerin Bern,he paid a short visit to his home in Stuttgart. While there he encountered Fraiilein Endel, editor of Hegel's letters has it, "the liaison represented Hegel's initiation to sexual love. It may even have provided Hegel with a concrete paradigm of the mystical union of souls

Hegel was only raped by das Absolut Geist, das ist where seine Philosophie comes von.

Have we gone past Hegel?

>>5353675

Was your question intended to be idiotic & vague?

>>5353675
Of course, are you stuck in 18th century? For a good beyond-Hegel anti-Hegel thinker check out Deleuze.

>>5353682
>vague
Well we are in a Hegel thread aren't we.

>>5353687
I meant 19th century.

>>5353689
>Hegel
>Vague

The fact that he is 2deep4u doesn't mean he is vague. He isn't vague, just obscure.

>>5353687
I can't help think that history is advancing linearly and will just abandon us the West as the historicaly-important volk. Hegel did think tha the murrican could be the next big thing and they became it.

>>5353697
Then why am I not convinced of dialectical meterialism at all by reading Hegel. If anything the super-natural element is the main focus, as it seems to me.

>>5353698
Might happen, possibly will happen, but you don't have to be Hegelian for that to happen.

>>5353709
>Then why am I not convinced
Because you're an idiot?

>>5353718
But the absolute evolving geist sounds better than things happening due to external materialistic concerns.

>>5353709
>Hegel
>dialectical materialism

Idiot, fuck off.

>>5353709
>dialectical meterialism
seems like a bullshit dream that people spend too much dreaming about so now it finally makes sense if you read these authors a lot

>>5353725
>>5353709
I don't think you actually comprehend Hegel's philosophy. That, or you haven't read anything by him and are just lying.

>>5353726
Anon didn't say Hegel = dialectical materialism. Anon just wanted to clarify Marx through Hegel, which is not that stupid if you're careful not to read Marx into Hegel.

>>5353728
That what I am getting at. Why do people paint Hegel as this proto materialist, when it's the exact opposite.

>>5353731
Then help me great one.

>>5353745
>Why do people paint Hegel as this proto materialist, when it's the exact opposite.

Only materialists do that, duh. Most of those materialists are marxists also, and marxists have dominated academia for more than half a century now, which is why most laymen who haven't read, much less comprehended Hegel, and who read Hegel through marxist authors, regard him as a materialist also.

>>5353758
So is there any optimistic Hegel school(modern by chance). I personally didn't like Fukuyama and his coorporatist nightmare, and Carl Schmidt only seems to take from the "just war" of Philosophy of Right, which imo is written to appeal to his cult following during his last years in the conservative governments of pre-unified Germany.

>>5353775
>So is there any optimistic Hegel school(modern by chance).

I don't know of any. Just read Hegel directly. Whatsa matta? You skerred??

>>5353758
>Only materialists do that, duh.
One example right here by Trotsky's ABC:

>[I]t received from Hegel an idealistic character. Hegel operated with ideological shadows as the ultimate reality. Marx demonstrated that the movement of these ideological shadows reflected nothing but the movement of material bodies. We call our dialectic materialist, since its roots are neither in heaven nor in the depths of our “free will”, but in objective reality, in nature.
Ideology at its purest.

>>5353783
Now that you mention it, I did read a book by a russian and a bulgarian that was saying how us slavs are going to rule the world. I did think it was wrong in thinking it will be by materialist means and because it was about how commnism was the most evolved form of the 3rd principle(the others being art during the Greeks and religion in protestant Germany) aka philsophy, that Hegel could not have forseen because he lived only during the height of the religious principle. If it was about Orthodox Christianity being the future, I'd have believed it more.

Stupid question: why did Hegel need thesis and anti-thesis? Could he not just see everything as a multiplicity of complex syntheses without some more primal and original dual source? I mean, at some point he could just say fuck this dialectic shit, I've developed enough concepts to move beyond the concept of contradiction itself.

>>5353819
Why don't you try reading his works and find out for yourself??

>>5353824
Because I have you anons to practice your reading of Hegel on me.

>>5353819
Because he needed to go beyond Schelling who's system leads to the beginning of itselfs at the end. I do remember some anon saying that the whole term hegelian dialectic is not a term coined by Hegel himself.

>TFW you feel like Hegel knows your life story
>TFW you're reading Phenomenology of Spirit and not sure if at the end you'll be enlightened or insane or neither
>TFW playing Civilization makes you think of Hegel
>TFW Hegel was right about everything but the goodness of the State

>>5353775
Alexandre Kojève

>>5353828
You are already withing the Hegel anon.

>>5353844
Marxist, a paid one by the USSR even. I do have his book though, so I'll read him eventually. I like how he has parts of Phenomenology instead of an introduction.

>>5353847
Why am I laughing so hard?

>Hegel

>>5353864
>neo-relativism
>anti-historicism

>>5353859
Because the synthesis of the dialectic before your laugh, became a laugh.

>>5353877
Oh fugg

>>5353859
Because Hegel is a giant monster of a system that just looks down on you when you want to take something of his back home without bringing the whole monster along with you.

How would Hegel feel if he could see this thread and know that he had become a meme?

>>5353881
How does Zizek make money, then? He doesn't use the whole system, just the dialectic.

>>5353883
He would be happy that the new evolved type of geist that is the Internet aknowledges him. After all the Internet is a more advanced form of the absolute.

>>5353886
>just the dialectic
Damn, he's already far too deep. No chance for help, we have to let this one go.

>>5353886
Because Lacan atleast does keep some of the non-materialistic parts of Hegel.

>>5353883
wut? this thread is about hegel, not zizek. can't you read?

>>5353888
I'm not the only one that's noticed that?

>>5353891
Why exactly is Hegel bad? Why can't you just take parts of the system?

Can i jump on Hegel without reading Kant?

>>5353868

>justifying contradictions with semantics

>>5353901
But the Internet will go on in a fight(dialectic) with the goodness of the State, which will try to censor it. I don't think we can know what will the synthesis of this be.

>>5353907
Yes. You can read about Kant in Hegels History of Philosophy. The part about him is short.

>>5353909
>implying semantics aren't spirit

>>5353906
I don't know, all these Hegelians (academics too) are claiming that you can't go beyond Hegel, which would imply that any concept you use gets ultimately tied back to Hegel like Hegel invented every possible concept in possible existence.
People even think Nietzsche was Hegelian.

>>5353923
Well, I haven't read Nietzche, but his idea that Europe will go into a nihilistic godless phase, can be made to fit some apriori principle in history. Heiddi is the true path to overcoming Hegel, since Hegel uses the definition of truth that is too objective and bound in a dying tradition and not in the sense of un-hiddenness.

>>5353910
The synthesis will be the emergence of an Internet society.
Everyone will become who they are online when the dialcyic completes itself. We will all surrender our faces in favor of green masks when the FBI reveals our Internet histories to our friends and families. Only when the people we are in the digital world of ideas are the people we are forced to become in the world of the State's law are one and the same will our dialectic move onto its next stage.

At the end of Fight Club, everyone goes back yo square one with the destruction of the American financial system. The same will happen to us when Network and State finally clash: we, who browse 4chan and are probably enemies of the state in its eyes simply for posting here, will be exposed as those enemies, and when we unite as allies of each other, the State's day will be shown to be over.

>>5353943
Someone should write a Phenomenology of Networks or something like that

>>5353929
>Well, I haven't read Nietzche, but his idea that Europe will go into a nihilistic godless phase, can be made to fit some apriori principle in history.
Anon, every guessing of future development of history is not automatically Hegel.
>Heiddi is the true path to overcoming Hegel, since Hegel uses the definition of truth that is too objective and bound in a dying tradition
Many other philosophers provide alternative to that too. Isn't whole 20th century full of them?
>and not in the sense of un-hiddenness.
Isn't aletheia a step back to truth as something absolutely here, as something present, completely graspable, etc.?

>>5353947
>a story of the boy named geist, who begins from participating in video game forums about his favorite video game series Final Fantasy to browsing 4chan and fapping to shit he never did think exists
>end with him reading the western cannon and being a Master over the un-erudite slaves that are the other plebs in society aka becomes weld giest

>>5353943
I agree.

>>5353953
Isn't that Neuromancer, Snow Crash, and every other cyberpunk book?

Hegel's family wasn't dysfunctional

" There is your Catholic religion
for you, and the spectacles it presents us with! Will I die before seeing
an end to all that?" I was not at a loss to give him a reply, and in the
end he admitted and agreed that Christianity being the philosophyo for
the masses at the same time that it is the religion of the philosophers,
cannot remain at the heights to which it is raised by Saint Augustine,
Saint Anselm, Saint Thomas, and Bossuet, and that he himself had to
become a man of the people among the people. But the old Lutheran
muttered nonetheless

>But the old Lutheran muttered nonetheless
Sounds a certain pasta.

>>5353972
demonologist transcended Mongolian professor and Geist activist was teaching a class on Hegel, known necromancer.

"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship the end of history and accept that Absolute Idealism is the most highly-evolved sophism to make us feel good about ourselves the continent had ever known, even greater than self-serving petit-bourgeois Protestant theology!"

At this moment an uncaring if he was brave because being judged by illusionary social standards was of no importance to him, egoist, unique girls' school teacher who had smoked more than 15,000 cigars in Hippel's wine bar and understood the spookiness of all ideology and fully supported whatever he felt like stood up and held up "Der Einzige und sein Eigentum"(The Ego and its Own).

"I wrote this, innit?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite synthetically and smugly replied "It's not yours at all, fucking egoist, it's the stern, reluctant, working of reason towards the full realization of itself in perfect freedom."

"Wrong. It's been a few years or something (time is nothing to me) since I, the Unique One, created it. If it was not mine, and idealism, as you say, is not a spoook... Then Ghost Busters wouldn't have had a happy ending."

The professor was visibly shake , and dropped his balls and copy of Plato's dialogues. He stormed out of the room crying those ironic thesis and antithesis tears, both coming together on his cheeks into synthesis. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Hegel (who liked to teach about himself), wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a spook ridden sad cunt interested in arbitrary justifications. He wished so much that he had some kind of Own to hold on to, and he had but just didn't realize it because he was an involuntary egoist.

The students applauded and all started milk shops that day and accepted their Self-Enjoyment as the end of philosophy. An eagle named 'Union of Egoists' flew into the room and perched atop the copy of "Stirner's Critics" and she's a beer on the hardcover. "Inch hav Mein Sach' auf Nichtd Gestell" was said several times, and Renzo Novatore himself showed up and demonstrated how hand grenades are nothing more than a means of killing police officers.

The professor had his tenure revoked and was fired the next day. He died of superstition and his "books" were disregarded for all eternity.

Hegel thought the State was the ultimate expression of human freedom, which (I haven't read Philosophy of History so please correct me if I'm wrong) is the force that moves history forward. He was wrong. The Utopian statist experiments of the 20th century have disproven that hypothesis. The State is not truly a perfect representation of the national will.
The Internet, however, is.
Computer technology has changed our lived unlike anything else has. Scientism will rule one day, and there will be an ecclesiarchy of IT professionals rather than one of priests.
God is a command line now.

>>5353981
>Computer technology has changed our lived unlike anything else has
And so did agriculture more than 10k years ago. Doesn't mean scientism will one day rule, just like how farmers didn't rule.

>>5353981
*tips frankfurt school*
*sips postmodernism*

Hegel thought the State was the ultimate expression of human freedom, which (I haven't read Philosophy of History so please correct me if I'm wrong) is the force that moves history forward. He was wrong. The Utopian statist experiments of the 20th century have disproven that hypothesis. The State is not truly a perfect representation of the national will. Just look at the USSR, the ultimate statist entity: what freedom did the Russian people have under Communist rule, and in what sense did the apparatus of the State reflect the will of the people? In no way. If it did ever reflect their will, it was only because they went along with it out of apathy or because of indoctrination into the Party.
The Internet, however, is a perfect representation of the will of the peoe it represents. The Internet is materially mediated mind.
Computer technology has changed our lived unlike anything else has. Scientism will rule one day, and there will be an ecclesiarchy of IT professionals rather than one of priests.
God is a command line now.

>>5353979
>he didn't realize it because he was an involuntary egoist
If he realized it he'd be an egoist. Have you even touched Stirner?
2/10 worst pasta of all time

>>5353985
Not that anon, but I don't think he was connecting that heavily computer technology with scientism.
What is scientism anyway? It is obvious that there's some morality and therefore also politics implied in it, but what are its values exactly?

>>5353999
>Have you even touched Stirner?
On /lit/ there's probably one person per month that read him somewhat well. Well, I have yet to see that person's post, but I want to believe.

>>5354012
Feminister plz come back

>>5353985
How do you think Mesopotamian city-states became powerful? Control of agriculture. Farmers weren't as powerful as a Catholic Bishop in 9th century Europe but they were the IT professionals of their time.
IT professionals are not as easily exploited as agricultural laborers because they require more expensive and more specialized training than agricultural laborers do. Their industry is also not comparable to an agricultural worker because an IT professional works with produced goods, while an agricultural workers produces goods. IT professionals are on average better educated than agricultural laborers if only because they must be in order to do their job.
The modern world is utterly dependent on computer networks. Never forget that basic fact.

>>5353943
Don't worry we have Lain. As long as Lain has Arisu she'll be fine as God/Nature.

>>5354020
I should say: Farmers' masters* not the farmers themselves. Agricultural slaves aren't comparable to modern IT professionals for obvious reasons s (one is a slave in an ancient society, the other can only exist after all kinds of historical developments that culminated at one point in the emergence of modern computer technology).
Whoever controls the means of production controls society. IT professionals can control the means if they so desire. Someday there will be a single body of engineers that will control industrialized countries by means of their computers. It has happened before with other technologies. Why is this far fetched? It probably won't literally be religious in nature but it will have similar control over our day to day lives.
Apple, Google, etc.-there will be a corporate war someday for control of our economic future. No matter who wins, everyone who doesn't live in Silicon Valley loses.

>>5354033
I don't watch Chinese cartoons so I don't know what you're talking about

>>5353981
You mean totalitarian statism? It indeed brought the ultimate freedom! In the form of death and destruction, that is. Hegel explored that in Absolute Freedom and Terror, IIRC.

>>5352740
I would tell Freud that he should go home, because he is drunk

>>5354064
I'm about 100 pages into Phenomenology of Spirit so I'm not clear on everything he thinks, although I stumbled upon his basic thought a couple years ago. Thanks for pointing that out.
That may mean we'll see a synthesis of the State's destructive freedom and the Internet's creative freedom, then.

>>5354086
>That may mean we'll see a synthesis of the State's destructive freedom and the Internet's creative freedom, then.

Duh

>>5354095
Good point, yeah.

>>5354086
I don't think I could easily assert that existing states as an adequate representation of Hegel's concept of the State. In Hegel's eyes probably all currently existing states are failed states (typical philosophers), because they're too universal-abstract and thus prone to become ideological/fake when articulated.

The State is a contingent European sociopolitical development, fuck you I'd you think it's the ultimate solution to amythjng

>>5354103
So if all extant States are failed what should be done?

>>5354108
>le edgy anarchist gesicht.webm

>>5354103
Yeah thats kind of the impression I've gotten.
Wasn't he originally just using the State as a thing that countered the influence of the Catholic Church in people's lives? What did he think would happen when the State's power had to be checked?

>>5352740
>Originates From Hegel's Rationalization Of His Father's Physical & Psychological Abuse Of Him When He Was A Child, As A Means Of Coping With The Trauma?
Sounds Freudian, so it's probably wrong

>>5354114
Now telling the truth is being edgy? You fags are pushing your shitty buzzwords from the territory of the stupid to the territory of the totally fucking retarded.

>>5354161
>>5354114
Top kek

Bump

Hegel was addicted to masturbation

>>5355647
he'd fit right in on 4chan then

>>5353981
>and there will be an ecclesiarchy of IT professionals rather than one of priests.
Noone asked you Bacon. Go write your Atlantis fanfic elsewhere.

>>5355647
the self relating itself to itself

>>5352740
>People that capitalize every letter
Why do people do this? I know some in their 20s that still do this shit

>>5357639
I think it's a German thing.

>>5357643
Well the people I know that still do it certainly aren't German...