/lit/ - Literature

>>5350311
He was one of the rare genious characters that reflected that adjactive in both his actions and his thoughts. Also most of the military dudes are very morally gray and hardly Mary Stues. And it was a school for the most brilliant children of Earth. So it makes perfect sense.

>>5350311
Harry Potter is better than Hamlet, Faust and War&Peace combined, since it depicts the true meaning of friendship, which is deeper than in any other book.

>>5350333
No man, you confused HP with Naruto and Fairy Tail.

Isn't Card homophobic though?

>>5350333
HP doesn't really depict the true meaning of friendship, Hermione and Ron kind of just follow Harry everywhere and do stuff.

It's not related to any one specific book, but Science Fiction pretty much as a whole.

>I don't care about space travel.

>>5350354
b8

>>5350354
>Implying that is relevant to anything

>>5350311
Is that really an unpopular opinion on Ender's Game? That seems like what anyone halfway intelligent who read it would think.

Or is this like a super troll-y thread?

If it's not, here's mine:
>the protagonist of Portnoy's complaint is far more obnoxious than Holden Caufield

Thought Ender's Game was an immense drag to read.

>>5350376
The only person who is more obnoxious that Holden is madame Bouvary.

"Mary Sue" would be a valid critizism if the book actually was about Ender's intelligence. But it's not.

>>5350376

So fucking true.

How about
>GoT is shit. GoT is an ABSOLUTE nightmare to read through. If the production crew of the TV series didn't pump literal millions into it, nobody would give a single shit about GoT.

>>5350390
How is this an unpopular opinion here?

>>5350390
>How about
>>GoT is shit. GoT is an ABSOLUTE nightmare to read through. If the production crew of the TV series didn't pump literal millions into it, nobody would give a single shit about GoT.

This is a very popular opinion amongst /lit/eraries

>>5350390
this made me mad.
good job.
while i would't say you are right concerning the shit part, i must a gree that the show boosted the relevance of ASOIAF.
without the show no one would remember it in 20 years

>>5350397
>>5350399
well, it is unpopular everywhere else.
OP didn't specify

>>5350397
>>5350411
>>5350399

I'm new around here, sorry.

>>5350411
>well, it is unpopular everywhere else.
Well, not really. Sure there are thousands who gobble it up, but by the same measure "Linkin Park makes bad music" is unpopular too. There's always a majority with horrible tastes, so why even bother considering them?

>>5350420
This. Plebs don't count in assesing quality.

>>5350420
why exactly do only plebs enjoy GRRM?
sometimes i really hate the smugness here.
it is meant for entertainment guys, not for serious studies and analysis

>>5350437
It stopps being enjoyment only when you have people telling me how fucking deep it is and that the prose isn't bad at all.

>>5350437
you clearly dont belong here

>Most "hurr manifesto of grand idea you incessant pleb" tier books are just unreadable pieces of shit

>>5350451
nah, i'm here for discussing books.
and while this board is absolute horseshit it is the only one on 4chan so i have to get used to the hipsters, i guess

>>5350463
If you by hipsters mean people with taste who don't endulge in horseshit, yes, you do.

>>5350437
>outside of lecture hall, a bit early for class
>reading A Song Of
>girl asks if I watch GoT
>reply in the negative, I just like to read some casual books in between more serious literature
>at the mention of "more serious literature" her brow furrows and she's about to let out a demeaning remark but then the professor arrives and we all go inside

meh

Isn't that kind of the point? It's the Mary Sue academy for ridiculously smart children that the reader totally belongs in

>>5350467
nah.
most people here act cringe-enducingly smug.
and when you try to argue with them you get kneejerk reactions and people calling you a pleb.
this is a manchild board on par with /mlp/ but no one has the courage to say it.

the only enjoyable things are the poetry threads, but even there someone always has to ruin the fun by calling other people's poems shit.

>>5350437
>why exactly do only plebs enjoy GRRM?
I didn't say that. It's just that most literary well-versed people don't.

>>5350490
It just sounds like you're buttflustered for having disagreeing tastes. Most arguments I've had on /lit/ were fairly more substantial than shitflinging and ad homineum.

>>5350490
sensitive faggot
find another board to lurk
summer is sure long

>>5350496
That is just a nice way to say that.

>>5350498
ad hominems and kneejerk reactions are basically the essence of /lit/.

also look this post:>>5350490
which is a nice example of the no true scotsman fallacy.

a board full of self-proclaimed intellectuals should know how to use arguments right.

>>5350500
pretty much every other board is nicer than this one. it's not surprising no one visits /lit/.
also, I've been browsing 4chan for about 3 years now.
calling people summerfags is just another kind of ad hominem

>>5350467
>endulge
>>5350490
>enducingly

You should spell-check before samefagging. It really helps with the subtlety.

>>5350515
oops, meant this post:>>5350496
this is a no true scotsman fallacy

>>5350333
>implying Mason & Dixon didn't do that infinitely better

I think ASOIAF is enjoyable to read and the prose can be fine with some of his characters.

>>5350515
>self-proclaimed intellectuals
lolwut

And

>>5350515
>pretty much every other board is nicer than this one
lolwut

It's like you've never actually visited other boards

Most boards are mean, it keeps the idiots out.

>>5350518
no, i wasn't samefagging here.
seems to me there are two of us who can't spell

>>5350527
no, most other boards are easy to handle, and you can get a way with saying something controversial without being crucified.
if by "most other boards" you mean /b/ and /pol/, then yes, but their users are teenagers anyway

>>5350536
I mean /a/, /v/, /mu/, /g/, for those are the other boards I can speak of with knowledge, I don't usually browse much else, but they are all quite harsh in their views, and it ensures idiots are not welcome that sully the discussion.

>>5350547
huh. i think /v/ is pretty friendly.
can't comment on /a/,
you are right about /mu/,
i don't browse /g/.
it's still not okay that a board called "literature" keeps everyone out who doesn't agree with their taste.
this should be a board for all books, and if someone would like to make a /twilight/ general he should be able to do so without being bothered by you.
this board is a reddit-tier circlejerk, sad but true

>>5350563
/lit/, circle-jerking
Pick one

>>5350563
So we should all be cordial on a 18+ anonymous image board? Fuck off

>>5350575
you mean pick two.
it's basically Russian Literature: the Board.
i love russian literature but /lit/ takes it too far.
Then everything popular is suddenly shit (earlier posts in this thread are a grat example),
German philosophers are DA BEST!!!,
and so on.
It is basically an immature version of a book club that only allows classics.

>>5350581
no, you should a llow all book discussion on a literature board, faggot.
how hard is that to comprehend?
it's a board for books, so every book-lover should be able to post in it if he likes to.

>>5350589
Newfag I see, well let me tell you a secret, no matter what you say on this board you are going to get called a pleb.

>>5350593
So disscusion regarding how shit a book is isn't about books?

>>5350607
it is.
>>5349898
this, however isn't.
also, my point is that everyone who even dares to enjoy popular authors (not even only GRRM, also King or Robert Jordan) will have a holy crusade of angry /lit/izens against who go out of their way to insult him and his tastes.
in a thread earlier today someone was insulted because of his nationality, just because he posted something controversial.
you don't even need to be sensitive to see that, at least most other boards allow discussion that won't be derailed by zealous idiots

>>5350603
Shakespeare is awesome.

>>5350311
>still doesn't understand what a mary sue is

>>5350629
All it takes is a simple inb4 and (most of) your troubles will drift away.

>>5350636
Pleb.

>>5350636
There was a discussion yesterday about how he is shit compared to Dante.

>>5350653
That's Pure matter of taste.

You have to read both in their original languages first to truly compare them.

And since i cannot speak Italian i'm out.

My favorite is still Schiller.

>>5350311
Some to do with just /lit/.

>reading non-fiction is essential for understanding fiction
>no one on the board is qualified to make a "top three authors of x country" post
>you are allowed to have books on your bookshelf you haven't read
>a significant portion of printed works have not become circulated ebooks yet (shouldn't even need to be an "opinion")
>there are actually a lot of jobs related to the English field; the people who complain about having nothing are the people who didn't care about books, writing, literacy or rhetoric to begin with
>this is not a board for writers to make threads about their writing
>the sticky is a useful resource
>literature is not in a downturn, contemporary literature is not "dying," you just don't read any fucking contemporary literature besides the pop fiction shoved at you
>the medieval period did not have a dearth of literature/culture
>Eastern literature is not subpar to Western literature, despite your in-place bias
>everyone here should buy a bunch of books from small publishers
>everyone here should put forth the effort in actually searching out small publishers and works they enjoy that aren't pre-approved for them

>>5350629
>there's some assholes and trolls on an anonymous image board
>everyone here is such a meanie!
Sure, some people circlejerk and will call you a pleb at a moment's notice, but I don't think that's the majority. Also, there isn't a whole lot of in depth discussion to be had concerning some books.

>>5350661
>you are allowed to have books on your bookshelf you haven't read
Why?

>>5350661
Quit being reasonable, faggot.

>>5350661
i-i... i follow more or less these same guideline points of view except im not an english student, so, umm, hi!

>>5350665
i would agree with you, but the exact same monet someone mentions he enjoyed ASOIAF/King/WoT he has basically derailed the thread due to the fact that everyone will jump on the hate train.

like it or not, ASOIAF is (after LOTR) the best thing modern fantasy currently has to offer.

yet if you say that you are top pleb number one.

That's not just "a few trolls" that's maybe a third of the board.

>>5350437
/lit/ resents the fact that most of the people who like it don't appreciate it for what it is either. For some reason everyone seems to think that it's some kind of literary masterpiece.

>>5350674
Not every book is meant to be read from cover to cover. Anthologies, academic texts, resources you're needing for future work and collected essays are some examples.

>>5350682
Hey! I'm Comparative lit, not quite the same as English. Probably should have put in something about

>yes, you're allowed to read the translated version; no one can learn every language in existence, or even the languages with "worthwhile" literature

>>5350674
Because it's your own fucking bookshelf.

I can have ten Bibles despite being non-religious on my bookshelf if i want to.

>>5350686
A. ASOIAF has been discussed numerous times
B. There are other fantasy series that could easily compete with it for best modern fantasy
C. The only two people who would post in that thread are people who really liked and and people who really hated it.

>>5350645
actually he grasps the concept just fine and is correct.

>>5350721
Which series?
I'm genuinely interested, i need something new to read.

>>5350737
I would suggest gardens of the moons and it's sequels. Here's a friendly infograph

>>5350749
Here's another

>>5350749
Thank you very much, i didn't know some of them

>>5350759
No problem, friend.

>>5350757
>>5350749
I've read the Black Company and the beginning of the Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson.

Is the mistborn series as good as the ones mentioned above?

What about gardens of the moon?

Thanks

>>5350824
Mistborn introduced a fantastic and interesting world, with a magic system I really liked. However, the characters were a bit lacking in flavor and the plot was pretty standard. It's an entertaining book, but doesn't have much in way of symbolism or themes. Truthfully, I only read the first and kind of lost interest.

I'd say Gardens of the Moon and the whole Malazan series was very good. You're better off reading them than just listening to me. Kind of unusual structure, weird at first.

>>5350354
He was, but

>the author
>the work

>>5350661
None of these should be unpopular opinions. Actually, most of these border on facts.

Anyways good post m8

>>5350661
What are some small publishers you would recommend?

>>5351183
I post and talk about my favorites frequently, so they're rather known by now - Twisted Spoon Press, Wakefield Press (USA), Archipelago Books, Exact Change, Atlas Press, Dedalus, Green Integer, Peirene Press and Dalkey. My tastes tend towards experimental and world literature.

Some others than haven't solidified as favorites, but that are nice: Graywolf Press, Featherproof Books, Calamari Press, Pushkin Press, Black Widow Press, Open Letter Books, Autumn Hill, Xenos Books, Zephyr Books.

>>5350704
It's still retarded in practice though. Why buy books you're never going to read? I mean sure you're "allowed" do it but I'm equally allowed to think it retarded.

"Wow anon, look at all these movies you own! Which ones do you recommend?"

"Lol I don't watch that shit"

K

>>5350474
>her brow furrows and she's about to let out a demeaning remark but then the professor arrives

projecting much?

>>5350311

I just finished reading Children of the Mind. Pretty emotional stuff, but could have had more impact. About to get into the Ender's Shadow series.

Would /lit/ be so kind as to recommend books with similar or stronger feels? Books with the strongest feels of all?

Also, I wonder what traits of ASOIAF make it appealing to those who create TV/Film adaptations?

>>5351243

Where do I even start?

Would I find these at a Barnes & Nobles or a Borders? Or are there any worthwhile bookstores in NYC I should check out? Preferably cheap, if possible.

>>5351290
>Also, I wonder what traits of ASOIAF make it appealing to those who create TV/Film adaptations?
look at it that way: HBO proved with "The Sopranos" that drama with non-2D characters has a huge potential on TV.
that stuff sells because apparently the viewer is sick and tired of standard drama

>>5351273
I have lots of books on my bookshelf that i haven't read yet.
That doesn't mean i bought them just to put them in on my shelf.
Many of them were presents

>>5350311

>Christopher Paolini is the next Gene Wolfe

>>5351273
As the original poster of the opinion, I wasn't talking about books you're "never going to read," except in the measure of reference works, anthologies, etc.

They're books you haven't read yet. If I'm going to teach a class on x topic, of course I'd like to have extra material on hand to supplement anything I know about it. I'm not going to go book-by-book and read through each before allowing it in my house, because that's just not how research works. You need a few chapters out of one, a few from another, two essays in this collection, quotes off this story, etc.

>>5351310
I'm pretty sure The Strand would have that stuff, since they've got miles and miles of books. I've never been there though.

/lit/ should just give up on understanding the concept of a Mary Sue. You never get it right, ever, and you lob this non-criticism at anything featuring a protagonist who is anything better than boring and completely disabled.

Just stop using it. You tried to understand, but you couldn't get it and now it's time to stop using the phrase.

>>5350311
nobody actually genuinely likes enders game, or atleast they shouldnt, its shyte

wouldn't it be great if there was a novel about a planet that was a living id box, where it read your mind and constructed people and things that comprised the biggest parts of your conscious experience, like your wife? you could have a guy arrive on the planet to study it, and then suddenly be visited by a copy of his wife who died years ago. you could write about how that would effect someone. how a relationship between you and the embodied memory of your dead wife would develop. the interplay between love and fear and the struggle of choosing to reject the apparition or give into it. you could explore what it means for your memory of a person to be fundamentally different from who the person was, and what it says about a man who prefers one to the other, and how he deals with learning horrible truths about himself. you could explore how isolation on a desert planet would make it easier or harder to be afraid things like this. you could explore insanity, you could explore guilt. you could have a deeply introspective protagonist who is unsure of himself and afraid but capable and compelling as a character with pathos and emotion.

or you could just write a fake textbook about how neutrinos work.

yeah, that latter sounds way better. let's go with that.

fuck solaris.

A tired retread of the hero's journey with thinly layered Christian imagery and attempted vague background storytelling strewn about randomly. "I'm naming this character after a woman who died and was resurrected, isn't that poignant? Guys, sin't it cool how water symbolizes both life and death? Severian carries his sword like a cross, did you notice that? Hey I'm not saying this tower is a space ship but I'm going to describe it as a space ship so that stupid readers won't catch it, notice it on their 2nd readthrough, and proclaim my profundity. Did you notice Jonah is a robot?" Yes, Gene. I did. I also noticed that you forgot to tell an interesting story underneath any of this. I'd rather just have a book about Jonah. A centuries old robot scouring the Earth for the most beautiful woman he's ever seen is heads above anything Severian bumbles his way through.
>but the PROSE
Meh.

>>5351949
holy SHIT you completely missed the point of solaris, which was an exploration of the limits of empirical research and science in general. If you really want exploration of human psychology yada yada try watching the movie by tarkovsky it might be more your style

>>5351949

Have you read anything else by Lem? I'm reading The Cyberiad by him and it's absolutely hilarious and fantastic. Like, if Borges and Gary Larson collaborated. That's the only way I can describe it.

pic very related

This is my least favorite Heinlein book even though a sizable portion of the population seems to love it.

>>5352175

My favorite Heinlein novel is The Puppet Masters because I have a "sentient mind-controlling alien parasite" fetish.

>>5351978
>He only got the most obvious symbols