/lit/ - Literature

>>5348962
Mason & Dixon by Thomas Pynchon

>>5348962
the fourth wall doesn't exist in books, pleb.
it's a term for theatre and TV.

>outright abuses the reader
i'd say you should read Twilight

>>5348962

The Wizard Knight, by Gene Wolfe.

>>5348974
>the fourth wall doesn't exist in books, pleb
Oh, sorry, I'm afraid I don't know the correct term for when an author of a third-person work of fiction pauses a story to engage with the reader in first-person. Fourth wall was the first thing I thought of, I guess I should have thought a little harder to avoid the status of 'pleb' that you so kindly gave to me.

perhaps The Time Machine by H.G Wells.

>>5348962
I want that girl.

>>5348962
VALIS by Philip Dick sounds like almost exactly what you're looking for.
The story is about a character named Horselover Fat, who is explicitly described in the narration as being a stand-in for Philip Dick, the author, even down to the name (Horselover is a reference to the etymology of Philip). The book is largely written in third-person about Horselover Fat, with the third person narrator, who is also meant to represent Dick, passing commentary - Dick explains in the narration how he is trying to get perspective on stuff that was happening in his real life and is writing the novel in the third person as a way to give himself a more objective viewpoint. However there are sections where the "I" character does things independently of Horselover Fat that treat them as separate characters. Initially the book is largely autobiographical, but it diverges from his life more and more until it becomes more and more outlandish and fantastic. It's a really interesting read and I don't feel like I'm doing it justice, but it's one of the most interesting plays with these ideas that I've read.

Other stories that play with this in a simpler way include:
- Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut, which tells the story of the last remaining humans evolving into creatures resembling seals from the perspective of of a ghost - intermittently the ghost's family turns up to ask if he wants to go to heaven but other than that the ghost's story is largely irrelevant. A lot of Vonnegut probably fits what you want; even when it's ostensibly just a traditional third person narrative his voice and personality is so pervasive it almost becomes a character in its own right.
- Probably a bunch of stuff by Borges too, but most memorably to me 'Theme of the Traitor and the Hero', which starts with the narrator explaining that he's planning a novel but hasn't decided on the details yet - it could take place in any "oppressed and tenacious country," possibly Ireland, maybe somewhere in South America - and then proceeding to tell the story anyway.
- Almost every other literary text written in third person, if you look hard enough. What is the narrator telling me? What are they leaving out? What is their bias?

>>5348991
>>5348974
It's not that the fourth wall doesn't exist in literature - it does, just in a slightly different way. A narrator talking directly to the reader isn't 'breaking the fourth wall' because talking to the reader is the narrator's purpose. Breaking the fourth wall is breaking a boundary; there is no boundary between narrator and reader. If a non-narrator character acknowledges that he is fictional or that there is an author or a reader, though, that could still be described as breaking the 4th wall.

the two best are ford maddox fords "the Good Soldier" and the man who would be king by kipling

W. Somerset Maugham's "The Razor's Edge"

Maugham inserts a fictionalized Maugham into the story, and everything the reader knows about the characters comes from this fictional version.

>>5348962
Moby Dick does exactly this. It begins in first-person and slowly drifts to Melville narrating in third-person omniscient. The book also jumps to different forms as well. I think it's exactly what you're looking for.

>>5349473
Forgot to mention, he breaks the fourth wall as well: "I trust the reader will be thinking this...", "one of the reasons for this book is...", et cetera. Not often but it happens.

>>5349473
except that it's boring as fuck.
if i would want a story about whales i'd go and read tumblr feminists

>>5349485
>it's boring as fuck.

>>5349492
yes. Tolkien is miles better.

>>5349020
>I want that girl.

Charmian Chen, Taiwanese socialite.

>>5349498
Okay, well I personally disagree however l I respect your opinion. Personally, Tolkien made me fall asleep halfway into Fellowship. Hobbit is a masterpiece but later on he really emphasized scenery and world-building too much for me, instead of focusing on human condition/relationships. Melville is so creative in comparing things and finding similarities, along with describing qualities of people and life.

>>5349511
>Melville is so creative in comparing things and finding similarities, along with describing qualities of people and life.

The beginning was fantastic. Queequeg climbing into the bed, the start of the voyage, brilliant dialogue, it looked like it was going to be a phenomenal read. Then followed hundreds of pages of dry, stilted whaling trivia.

>>5349524
>Then followed hundreds of pages of dry, stilted whaling trivia.

Some of the best jokes are in these parts. Anyways, this problem is immediately solved if you look at it as Melville pulling your leg the entire time (which he is, none of that shit is accurate)

>>5349065
fucking five star post, nigga. I need to read VALIS.

OP: kind of unrelated, but you may want to explore memoir fiction, like Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien or Travels with Charley by Steinbeck. They are generally an interesting format that frequently appeals to the reader, but yeah the narrator is the character so little different

east of eden by steinbeck

>>5348962
Jacques the fatalist?