/lit/ - Literature

>masterpiece

>>5328290
Not medieval enough. Read history book instead.

>>5328290
Read other books.

>>5328290

A quality writer, with quality writings.

The F. Scott Fitzgerald of our generation.

>>5328290
I think Martin fell off the wagon after Storm of Swords.

There were some interesting things going on in Feast of shit and Dance with faggots, but wayyy to drawn out.

>>5328313
>Dance with faggots

>>5328290

Did he paint that? That's pretty impressive, actually. He's a much better painter than he is a writer. Maybe he should do book covers.

>>5328313

>>5328301
I would totally read novelizations of the wars of early modern Europe.

>>5328290

>>5328358
I fucking hate that war, I just fucking can't follow it.

I've learned the 100 years war, and know all the king involved

I've learned all about the spanish war of succession. but this 30 years war cunt beats me.

>>5328334

really? that's where you draw the line 2edgy4u?

>>5328392

every time /lit/ tries to give me an example of bad prose from ASoIF, I can't figure out what's bad about it

>>5328859
that's perfectly fine

it means you don't have austism

So when will it be revealed that Hodor is the Great Other?

>>5328971

No you silly billy he's the lost third Clegane brother

>>5328982
Ser Robert Strong vs Gravedigger
Who do you think will win?

>>5328859
He mentioned poop, prose must be bad.

>>5328859
The excessive use of onomatopoeia?

>>5328853
When you start spewing racist and homophobic slurs like a child.

>>5329083
That's my main gripe with it.

"Waved his huge sword" sounds like something I wrote in primary school.

good story teller, shit writer

>>5330612
''waved his huge sword'' isn't an onomatopoeia.
''woosh'' ''swish'' or something like that would be an onomatopoeia for waving his sword. Unless you were trying to make two different statements..

>game is nowhere on TV
>game is not even getting commentary on 5 live in favour of some rugby cup final
>industry wonders why people stream games to death

>>5328290
I'll give you the part where you say it is a piece, but that master is a no go.

>>5328859

>>5331000
Is that an actual paragraph from Martin's book? Holy crap that is bad if it is.

>>5330591
>stop hurting my feeling

>>5328859

You learn to recognise good prose the more you read.

GRRM is no where near good. Readable sure, but there is nothing good about it. It's mediocre at most, and the onomatopoeia is quite ugly but acceptable.

>>5328290
>reading over 4,000 pages literal and intellectual diarrhea

for the amount of time it would take you to read all of ASOIF so far; you for example could: get a Middle English dictionary and read every significant poem in Middle English like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Confessio Amantis, Piers Plowman or The Canterbury tales

or

read the entire Bible + Paradise lost

or learn Latin and read The Aeneid

>>5330625
I was attempting to make two statements but didn't make it very clear.

>>5328853
Why not? It's pretty damn edgy to post slurs on internet forums because you think it will make people think you're cool.

>>5328982
>>5328971
You're both wrong! Hodor is a secret Targaryen. The Iron Throne belongs to him.

>>5331188
>Middle English like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Confessio Amantis, Piers Plowman or The Canterbury tales

all of those are boring except Sir Gaiwain & Green knight, which is a short read anyway.

>read the entire Bible + Paradise lost

intentionally causing yourself brain damage? no thnx

>or learn Latin and read The Aeneid

latin is a dead language. The Aeneid is just an outdated version of ASoIaF

>>5332012

>>5332012

>>5332032
>>5332041

yep you guys were both baited.

>>5331029
>oh no I'm the edgy /pol/ autist
>hahysdhSDAHASDHA U4R ALL NIGGERS AND FAGGOTRS LESBIANS
>ayy lmao cis scum LOL

Oh I get it, it's okay for Joyce to like scat but once GURM does it it's a fucking heresy!

>>5332567

/lit/ has a hard-on for "quality prose", that is, overwrought language that appeals to their need for massive vocabularies and obfuscating grammar

>>5331000

Fitzgerald's section is a languid pile of shit for academes to fap over

>>5328859
he's not exactly 'bad'
he's uninteresting, and certainly not good.
he's like the default voice that genre fiction authors use.

>>5331029
yup

>>5332567
joyce does it with style
we don't give a fuck about the content it's the way it's presented

>>5332493
>Being this much of a retarded faggot over the word "faggot" on 4chan

You are fucking retarded

>>5332789

so he's humble enough not to use the purple garbage vomited out by "genius writers" elevated by other ivory tower intellectuals and pandered to uneducated rubes

>>5332817
get out

>>5331188
I read ASOIaF in about 3 weeks.

Ger over yerself.

>>5332823
Based anon tells the pleb what s/he should do.

>>5328859

>>5332812
Nice vocabulary choices

>>5332758

>overwrought language that appeals to their need for massive vocabularies and obfuscating grammar

Someone, somewhere, thinks that all GRRM criticism is driven by desire for this.

That makes me very sad.

>>5330591
>>5331998

That's funny... This doesn't look like Reddit...

>>5332934
I'm pretty sure I learned what "repetition for effect" was in 6th grade.

so when joyce or pynchon or mccarthy writes about pooping it's "the major esthetic achievement of any living writer" but when martin does it it's dismissed as terrible prose genre trash

>>5332984
I know, you niggerfaggotretard

>>5333134
You have to admit that Martin's version is gauche.

>>5333125
But it sounds childish and basic, as if tailored for a mainstream audience, just like the tv show

>>5331188

Yes, we all saw that infographic. Thank you.

>>5333153
That's it. I'm out. Someone used the word "gauche".

>>5331188

i've read most of those and George R.R. Martin

and besides, this criticism is bullshit for anybody that browses 4chan, or wastes their time in any way whatsoever. ASoIaF is not worse than browsing inane bullshit on 4chan, imagine all that time you've spent here, imagine how many books you couldve read

>>5328392
>>5328859

OK, I'll do it. I'm going to close read the first section, the bit about the warhorn, and tell you why it isn't good. It isn't bad. It communicates something, but if you look at it in a detailed way it's really shoddy.

First off, the "Harooooooo" is plainly silly. You could easily describe the same sound with reference to letters and vowels without resorting to an onomatopoeia. He's also tripling up here. He says the warhorn cried, then he writes the sound out, then he describes the sound further. If he's presenting a literal statement about a sound, then a description, why does he need to paint it with the onomatopoeia? All of these things are competing. The repetitions also make it seems like it's blowing multiple times, which it isn't, and that clashes with the meaning.
The metaphors are awful. The warhorn both cries and is a wind from the north. This might be suggesting, implicitly, the battle to come. A rush of people from the north, crying. The problem is, a wind is insubstantial, harmless, merely unpleasant. It's also a tired figure. People have been describing warriors as nature since Homer did a much better job of describing the Greeks as bees swarming.
Crying and a cold breeze juxtaposed also bring up a child, which has no relation to the meaning whatsoever.
There also might be a wolf's howl in there, which clashes further, and jostles for attention.
There's also a real ackwardness in the phrasing of "the warhorn blew." If you're inclined to pedantry, that suggests the warhorn is doing the blowing, not a person. Nonsense.

>>5333153

i have to?

why?

>gauche- lacking ease or grace; unsophisticated and socially awkward

i dont think the Dany-Diarrhea-Extravaganza passage "lacks ease or grace", it might be socially awkward i guess, but diarrhea is socially awkward

>>5333218
I'm sorry, you don't think the sentences:

>Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew...

lack grace? Are you serious? Are you trolling?

>>5333214

the only thing that sounds reasonable there is the "tripling up" thing, probably doesnt need to be described 3 times

BUT

>The repetitions also make it seems like it's blowing multiple times, which it isn't, and that clashes with the meaning.

^^^ makes me think you're legitimately retarded

>The metaphors are awful. The warhorn both cries and is a wind from the north. This might be suggesting, implicitly, the battle to come. A rush of people from the north, crying.

this is also super retarded, maybe "the warhorn cried" was the description that needed to go, but your reasoning of why is ridiculous

>The problem is, a wind is insubstantial, harmless, merely unpleasant. It's also a tired figure.

this is fucking stupid too, a cold winter wind from the north means you're gonna die soon if you dont find shelter, it's supposed to be spooky, threatening in its subtly growing darkness

>People have been describing warriors as nature since Homer did a much better job of describing the Greeks as bees swarming.

"my favored author would've done it differently, therefore its bad"

>Crying and a cold breeze juxtaposed also bring up a child, which has no relation to the meaning whatsoever.

"the author is responsible for whatever strange connotations my mind brings up, no matter how vaguely related to his words"

>There also might be a wolf's howl in there, which clashes further, and jostles for attention

this is retarded too, "jostles for attention" ?? with what? the horn is supposed to be evocative of howling from the north, both wolves and wind, i see no clashing or "jostling"

>There's also a real ackwardness in the phrasing of "the warhorn blew." If you're inclined to pedantry, that suggests the warhorn is doing the blowing, not a person. Nonsense.

blowing is something that both the subject and object do, its not nonsense

inability to understand the "badness" of martin's prose is unchanged

im not sure i even understand what prose is supposed to be like or why you guys think that there's just one way to write well

>>5333231

im not trolling, i am serious, what is it that lacks grace? is it the subject matter?

i think he gracefully described dying of diarrhea, sue me

/lit/ contest!

describe diarrhea with better prose than GRRM

>>5333268
If you do not see the lack of grace in using the word shit three times in two sentences, then we are done here. You're at a level that is far below this conversation, and we are done.

What do you think would have happened if Ned had lived? Assuming either someone interrupted the execution, or made a jailbreak?

>>5333325

There's nothing graceful about shitting your guts out, let's praise GRRM for his brilliant detachment from aesthetic in order to convey the stunning realism of Dany's anal leakage

>>5332823
>>5332836
>>5333046

>upholding "literary prose" as some arbitrary standard of quality

>>5333364

changed everything dude, Ned was the force of order and reasonability that could've stabilized everything following Robert's death

he fucked up by not telling Robert about Cersei's betrayal on his deathbed, and therefore, guaranteed a war with the Lannisters.

But his respectability would've united most of the realm in favor of Stannis' claim to the throne, and they could've easily crushed the Lannisters if they were all united

>>5333325

what's wrong with that? is it the word "shit", is "feces" better equipped for the situation in your eyes?

i think it was gracefully done because I got a vivid understanding of her dire situation, one that resonated with my own experiences of dehydration and diarrhea, and gave more color to Dany's strange disappearance, she was young and butthurt about everything going to shit in her city, so she stayed out with her dragon to the point of near death

>>5328859
When I read GRRM it feels like I am reading a highschoolers novel. Am I autistic?

>>5332833
I read it in 3 hours.

>>5328971
I think Osha had. he is over seven feet tall unbelievably strong and extremely hairy. He has some giant in him.

>>5334479

I hope ol' GRRM devotes a paragraph in his next book to a description of Osha's hairy, sweaty asshole

>>5328290
Daily reminder that this will be a well-remembered series in fifty to sixty years.

What if, instead of a jailbreak or something like that, Joffrey decides not to be a sadistic little monster and allows Ned to join the Night's Watch? What happens?

One of the previous times we had a thread about the SUNSET FOUND HER SQUATTING IN THE GRASS bit, somebody wrote a little blurb about an elf maiden taking a shit.

I don't... uh, I don't suppose anybody saved it, did they? I was erect by the end of it.

>>5328341
Objectively, ASOIAF is a better book series than that painting is a good painting

>>5334708
He's Lord Commander mostly on his virtue of being a Stark and a former lord. Jeor Mormont names him his successor soon after he arrives. When the Wildlings attack, Ned Stark negotiates with them to live in the Gift. When the Others come, he fights valiantly but ultimately fails, as his is not the song of ice and fire.

>>5330612
>"Waved his huge sword" sounds like something I wrote in primary school.
What else would he have used?

>>5334868
Go away.

>>5334868
How about "Swung his sword about his head"? I agree that the verb 'waved' sounds awkward there. It's probably in the correct tense, but it just sounds wrong.

>>5334875
That doesn't convey the fact that the character in question is 7 feet tall and his sword is appropriately huge.

>>5334872
Great response.

>>5334928
We already know he's big because he's been described to us before. He can be described again to us later, if need be. A battle is not the time for it.

As for his sword, you've admittedly got a point. But do we really need to know it's big? Isn't that just something most people could infer?

So does /lit/ hate Hemmingway? Because his prose is very similar to Martin's.

>>5335003
It's far worse than Martin's, and yes I hate him.

>>5334928
>Great response

Oh blow me. "he waved his huge sword" is retarded. There are so many alternatives, especially that capture the battle and "huge" dude aesthetically. "Massive" is the one that immediately springs to mind. I get that he's not trying to craft poetry here and just wants you to know the dude is waving a huge sword, but I don't give a fuck about dudes waving huge swords so I won't read ASOIAF. Is this a more adequate response, fagatron?

>>5335017
>It's far worse than Martin's

Do we just hate everything that's popular?

>>5330591
You're on 4chan. Fag is always acceptable faggot.

>>5334934
The author isn't wasting valuable time by bogging himself in describing the character. He is using a single adjective to describe the size of an object, which in turn reminds the reader of the character holding said object. The reader would have likely taken the size and power and presence of Gregor for granted otherwise. It implies the carnage he's about to unleash in the battle. It's simple, clean, efficient and effective.

>>5335029
Yes, /lit/ is notorious for doing that. Observe how there is little in the way of valid criticism of the books here. You'd be hard pressed to find people who don't read asoiaf without preconceived notions.

>>5335022
see >>5335048

Also your response says as little as >>5334872
Try again.

>>5335059
No retard, you just don't want to accept that I don't give a fuck. I don't care at all about a huge dude waving a sword, I will mock the sentence for being an exact representation of why I don't want to read the books. I'm not one of the people who goes around putting "genre fiction" in jade pointers and I personally like horror and can admit it's pretty cliche but I can still laugh at these terrible books.

>>5335109
>I don't give a fuck
You say that, but you're getting awfully flustered about it, and don't seem to eager to stop posting about it.

You still haven't managed to convincingly argue against the passage.

>>5335119
>lel u mad

Please. I think it's funny when people don't accept that someone doesn't like something they do. I don't even like fantasy books at all, which is why I keep telling you "I don't give a fuck". I like pretty faggy books about nothing because I do enough fun shit in my life and I don't like escapist plots. The thing that's wrong with the sentence is it's boring as shit to me and I wouldn't want to read a book that contains it unless everything around it was waaaaayyyy better.

read Bernard Cornwell instead. you can actually learn something useful too

Lol @ the Germ Defence Force.

This summer I successfully completed my second reread of ASOIAF, and, coupled with putting WOT down, will never touch a modern 'epic fantasy' series ever again. Well, there's Pat Rothfuss, whose brick-shaped turds I have to read for meta reasons.

>15yo ASOIAF read: wow, this is great! All the death of major characters and plot twists! Such viscera!
>18yo ASOIAF reread: wow, this is great! All the interweaving of well-developed storylines. I've never experienced better characterisation! Post-ASOS could do with some work, but TWOW will be back on track!
>20yo ASOIAF reread: uh, well, I had >a lot< of summer spare and the theories are mildly addictive.

>>5328971

Hodor is a descendant of Dunk.

>>5335326
>thinks asoiaf is epic fantasy

>>5335473
Quotation marks are a thing, mate.

I'm honestly not interested in which made-up sub-genre of fantasy ASOIAF can be shoehorned into.

>>5335326
>Germ Defence Force.
That desperation, christ.

>>5335326
Shame on you.

I kept reading it, waiting for some great plot ends to tie together or whatever, but he missed his chance often.
But then I think, well... If he didn't tie up THIS plot end, maybe he's working up to something greater! Which never fucking happens and it frustrated me so much, and kept me reading for so long I actually read the entire series.
But it came to grow on me tho. After a while I started liking the extensive world building, the character dynamics, etc....

Like for example (SPOILERS)
.
.
.
When GRRM let Brienne go on a quest for an entire fucking book, only to then kill her off at the end.
, but then I heard she was in the Riverlands messing around with Jaime??? w/e

+ how fucking gay is it to refer to dicks as "cock" or "manhood"
but to refer to a vagina as "mound" (what,like they're gonna bury Théodred in it?) or "lower lips"

>>5328392

>>5333214

>>5335581
Those 'untied plot endings' ARE the plot endings. He does it enough times for it to clearly be trying to say something.

>>5335596
>this is what you're really complaining about...

>>5333278
I'm pretty sure I've read Baudelaire write about it... Well I clearly remember the rotting corpses.

A Carcass

My love, do you recall the object which we saw,
That fair, sweet, summer morn!
At a turn in the path a foul carcass
On a gravel strewn bed,
Its legs raised in the air, like a lustful woman,
Burning and dripping with poisons,
Displayed in a shameless, nonchalant way
Its belly, swollen with gases.
The sun shone down upon that putrescence,
As if to roast it to a turn,
And to give back a hundredfold to great Nature
The elements she had combined;
And the sky was watching that superb cadaver
Blossom like a flower.
So frightful was the stench that you believed
You'd faint away upon the grass.
The blow-flies were buzzing round that putrid belly,
From which came forth black battalions
Of maggots, which oozed out like a heavy liquid
All along those living tatters.
All this was descending and rising like a wave,
Or poured out with a crackling sound;
One would have said the body, swollen with a vague breath,
Lived by multiplication.
And this world gave forth singular music,
Like running water or the wind,
Or the grain that winnowers with a rhythmic motion
Shake in their winnowing baskets.
The forms disappeared and were no more than a dream,
A sketch that slowly falls
Upon the forgotten canvas, that the artist
Completes from memory alone.
Crouched behind the boulders, an anxious dog
Watched us with angry eye,
Waiting for the moment to take back from the carcass
The morsel he had left.
— And yet you will be like this corruption,
Like this horrible infection,
Star of my eyes, sunlight of my being,
You, my angel and my passion!
Yes! thus will you be, queen of the Graces,
After the last sacraments,
When you go beneath grass and luxuriant flowers,
To molder among the bones of the dead.
Then, O my beauty! say to the worms who will
Devour you with kisses,
That I have kept the form and the divine essence
Of my decomposed love!


Yup, disgusting things can indeed be awesome and a million times than Martin.

ASOIAF's strength is in its characters; they actually feel like people instead of cliches. It's like a medieval fantasy mixed with the Sopranos.

Why all the hate for ASOIAF?
it's not meant to have a good prose, it's meant to entertain and tell a story, which it does.

>>5336753
Who gives a shit about a bunch of dirty incestuous faggots and their drama in medieval europe? 4000 pages of waving huge swords and cunts becoming the world and 'WHAT A TWEEST' deaths, oh boy I can't wait! Maybe if I'm lucky the series will be anywhere near resolution before he dies!

>>5336803
i could make the same shallow argument about any classical piece of literature too.
who cares about Hamlet and his drama in medieval europe?
120 pages of waving huge swords.
also, limiting GRRM's prose to his abysmal sex scenes is just unfair.
he uses very beautiful prose when needed, but apparently it's against the hivemind to say that.
also, if you think that the deaths and plot twists are the definging feature of ASOIAf, you've either read it properly.
it's a character based drama, the relationships between them is the fuel of his story.
but whatever, better limit it to the worst points and try to forget a bout the good aspects, classical /lit/.
not even /tv/ is as pretentious as you, and that's quite an achievement.

>>5336803

Well, the book might be remembered as the BIG fantasy book since Tolkien 70 years from now whether you like it not. Perhaps you should be concerned about your own mortality and not GRRM

>>5336850
>I could make the same argument about hamlet

So do it you sensitive goddamn autistic retard I don't give a shit. It does not bother me in any way that you choose to waste your time reading 4000 pages of advanced asperger studies written by a cross between a bridge troll and a lobster fisherman. You idiots ask why people don't want to read the books or make fun of the writing, and then you get butthury and try to convince us we're somehow "wrong" that the books are boring and retarded.
>And forget about the good aspects
Irrelevant. I do not care whatsoever happens to his shitty universe or shitty characters.

>also, if you think that the deaths and plot twists are the definging feature of ASOIAf, you've either read it properly.
Is this trainwreck of a thought the result of reading nothing but unthinking pewpewlazor slashslashsword idiocy?

fuck

>>5336866
Oh man, a bitchy meaningless post about pop-artist success! I'd better flagellate myself because nikki minaj has money.

i came

>>5336870
lol, you're pretty much everything that's wrong with /lit/, but i will stop bothering you faggot, since the horse you sit on is so high that you cannot hear me anyway.
and somehow you managed to dodge all my arguments with
>i-i don't care
that's not the right way to argue, anon, or did you skip debate classes?

>>5335022

this is the level of criticism that entitles /lit/ posters to declare a book "utter shit" and "terrible prose"

mind-boggling

this is maybe the pretentious place on the entire internet, you guys literally have no fucking clue what you are saying, and nobody is more sure of their own retarded opinions than this board

>>5336889
>Why don't people want to read these books?
>THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER! TYPICAL /lit/, SAYS THEY DON'T WANT TO READ A BOOK BECAUSE ITS BADLY WRITTEN AND ABOUT RETARDED DRAMA AND SWORDS, CAN'T EVEN GIVE A REASON THAT I AGREE WITH CAUSE I LIKE SWORDS, THIS IS WHY I DON'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS MOM!!!!

>>5336897
So you're saying I actually have to read a shitty fantasy series I don't care about at all because you think I should be willing to read a book about dudes waving huge swords because you would do it? Stay mad and illiterate you delicate fucking flower. Fantasy books are for fat virgin nerds for a reason.

>>5336902
lol, you're so full of shit it's not even funny anymore.
i never tried to convince anyone to read it but whatever.
and since you never even tried to understand my post (i guess that's too hard for edgy 10th graders who just discovered they can swear on the internet),
i do not like it because of swords, but because of interesting characters with incrdedible depth.
i wouldn't give a fuck if the book was set during D-Day as long as the level of character development stays the same.

but whatever, using ad hominem arguments against me does not only show that you are anally devastated, but also that you lost this argument.

good night

>>5336915

no man, I'm saying that you should admit that your opinions basically boil down to "i prefer books not set in quasi-medieval lands" instead of trumping up your opinion as some sort of objective intellectual appraisal of the writing. I think you lack humility and sound ridiculous with your exaggerated opinions just to try push the buttons of people who like the series

>>5336915
i'm neither fat nor a virgin nor do i have a neckbeard but whatever.
using ad hominems is a pretty secure way to show people you are either immature or trolling.
if the latter is right, then congratulations, since your stupidity actually made me angry.
if you're not trolling you should consider commiting suicide.

>>5336945
>i'm neither fat nor a virgin nor do i have a neckbeard but whatever.

God, I'm sorry. In that case you need to go back to reddit because you are a 13yo tumblr feminist with a fedora.

>>5336954
you already lost this argument the moment you first insulted me.

deal.with.it.

>>5335654

i dont really see what makes this "a million times better than martin"

i enjoy the phrases, i enjoy "the message" which to my understanding is like "this corpse makes me appreciate your temporary beauty"

but it's still a bunch of unnecessary descriptions, so much of the criticism of martin in this thread could be applied to this poem, not that i agree with the criticisms at all, I'm just saying that people on /lit/ have a way of just posting their favorite or hated passages in books and believing that they self-evidently support their opinions, when they do not

>>5335581

i agree that the last two books were very stretched as Martin even admitted that when he started them, his intention was only one book to be after them, but by the end, he needed two more books, so the result is that nothing really happens in the 4th and 5th books, he just stretched out a whole bunch of not that much, Cersei's stuff is probably the only interesting event in the 4th book, the 5th book didn't really move along the plot until Dany leaves on the dragon, and in Jon Snow's part, this stretching is most apparent, they've been waiting for "imminent" attack from the Others for 3 books now, pretty frustrating

>>5336984
i agree, but at the same time book 4 featured the most beautiful prose from the series, the Broken Men speech.
i just hope GRRM is dome with worldbuilding now.

and he had of his rump a trumpet made

>>5336956
That guy isn't me. I insulted you because you asked why I don't want to read the shitty books and then you get personally offended that you received an answer.
>Hurrr u lost cuz u mean so i winz lelxP

Go back to reddit you retarded faggot.

>>5337079
ad hominems are still a sure sign that you lost this argument, it shows you have no better arguments to counter me with.
i didn't get personally offended (why would i?), i just found it funny that you dodged every single argument with "i don't care" "swords are so dumbz lul" i even wrote an elaborate reply that you just ignored since apparently you cannot handle the truth

(tip: the truth is that you don't even try to understand my posts, instead you make up shitty non-arguments to dismiss them without having to read my replies)

also, telling other people to fuck off back to redit is a pretty good indicator that you're running out of arguments, not that you had any in the first place

“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is a broken man an outlaw?”
“More or less,” Brienne answered.
Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.
“Then they get a taste of battle.
“For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe.
“They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

>>5337151

“If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world…
"And the man breaks.
“He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them…but he should pity them as well.”

>>5337158
>>5337151
that's a great example of good prose from ASOIAF.
too bad everyone is busy nagging about fat pink mast.

>>5337183

It's amazing how the same people, often in the same post, can bitch about how massive these books are AND throw a shit fit over one tiny passage, sentence or word.

>>5337277
i don't think it's about liking ASOIAF or not, i just believe that le edgy sekrit klub must find something to bash popular books.
it's not only ASOIAF, try opening a thread that says LOTR is a masterpiece and see the same people that shitpost here make up dumb excuses why LOTR was suddenly not good after all.

The Accursed Kings are a pretty good read, basically ASOIAF based on real events. Did you read The Accursed Kings /lit/?
ASOIAF is pretty entertaining, not a read you will remember all your life but enjoyable all the same on the moment, the prose is meh but I don't see how it can be something that would stop anyone from reading it, why is everyone going mad in here? If you don't want to read it, just don't, no need to get all angry like that.

Honestly, I do not mean to be rude with this. But isn't it kinda "manchildish" to read these books? I doubt you gain much knowledge from reading them, and it doesn't really help you develop as a person.

>>5337478
No, but does reading really have that purpose? Is it a shame to read for the sole purpose of entertainment? Is everything you do solely done to better yourself, give you knowledge and better you as a person?
I personaly enjoy wasting time, but heh everyone's different.

>>5337499
I think that reading does has a purpose, but of course that purpose is different for everyone.


I tend to favour knowledge and things that will help me in the future, instead of entertainment. But I respect your choice!

>>5333153
Just because its easy to read/understand, it's gauche?

Does /lit/ only concider something good when they have to read it more than once?

>>5334479
It's literally stated in the books that he's a Frey.

Tard.

>>5333214
He's getting across how surreal the situation is. He doesn't type out the sounds anywhere else in the series as far as I remember.

>>5337645
He's Ser Duncan's child with Old Nan and Brienne's half-brother

>>5337499
Personally I thought the first book was actually really good and the quality dropped off significantly in the second to the point I didnt finish it. Eitherway it felt like pulp fiction.

>>5338132
*Grandsonish

>>5333582
>butthurt about everything going to shit

>>5337478
You'd be surprised how utterly baseless your idea of these books is.

>>5337151
>>5337158
This is rather good.

>>5328859
I would care more about your opinion on good writing if you used capital letters and correct punctuation.

>Ser
>Petyr
>Eddard
... if you can't see the problem here, then may God have mercy on your soul.

>>5338765
>those books help me develop as a person
Ok.

>>5339708
If you want literature that will help you develop as a person, look in the self help section of your book store.

>>5339708
but he never indicated that this books help him to develop as a person.

>>5339623
oh no, he's disfiguring common titles and names, to create something both familiar and alien? how horrible.

>>5336984
Jup, that's pretty much what I felt too. Though I'm kind of hoping this means The Winds of Winter will have more things happening. Like what's happening with Bran, Jaime & Brienne in the riverlands, what happened with lady Stoneheart and what will happen with Arya.
I'm kinda contradicting myself. I partly regretted reading the series, but I'll still damn finish it.

>>5340196
think about it.
The first two books were the set up for the climax in the third one.
after A strom of swords lots of characters were dead, so new characters had to be introduced.
i think book 4 and 5 are meant to prepare a new climax.
i wouldn't be surprised if book 6 is like the third book.

>>5339623
0/10

Have you no shame?

I'll probably never read this but I deeply enjoy GRRM threads. I hope the bickering never stops.

>>5340259
eh, i think it's just annoying.

people who've never read it criticize the book by citing notoriously bad scenes, while ignoring every post that tries to say something positive.

criticising GRRM is ok when you actually read his books.

it's true that he is a mediocre writer, but you cannot deny that his characters and his story are a masterpiece.

>>5340287
>Characters a masterpiece
No man, 2D characters don't make a masterpiece. Ivan Karamazov is a masterpiece character. Tyrion is a rule of cool mediocore character.
Ubik is a masterpiece story. Martin's recreation of The War Of The Roses that is filled with things that make no sense isn't.

>>5340389
2D? did you even read it?
also choosing Tyrion is pretty dumb.
you cannot deny that Theon and Jaime are deep and complex.
maybe try to actually read ASOIAF instead of parroting the hivemind's opinion.
>things that make no sense
your post also doesn't.
protip: the whole plot makes sense, if you deny that you either haven't read it or you are too dumb to follow multiple plotlines at once.

>>5340397
>Implying Martin requires an IQ above 75 to fully understand

>>5340401
do you have any real arguments besides ebin greentexts?
you can tell me which part didn't make sense, or you can adress the points i've made in my previous post for example.
the characters feel very real and human and that's something very rare in literature.
i would understand if you dislike it because of the prose, but you are not giving any good reason why you hate on it.

>>5340407
Don't respond to shitposters. You're taking the bait and it's the entire reason they post in these threads.

>>5340407
>the characters feel very real and human and that's something very rare in literature

What kind of shit have you been reading if you find it rare? That would explain why you like it.

>>5340418
rare in nowadays' literature.
comparing it to the classics is unfair, and ASOIAF is probably the best thing besides LOTR the modern fantasy genre has to offer.
the impressive thing about it is that the author didn't only write one good character, he did it 20 times, and he manages to portray different genders, age groups and mental states very well.

>>5340424
Comparing something to crap doesn't make it great.

>>5331008
I want to believe that its not, but yes it actually is.

>>5340428
somehow the entire fantasy genre is shit?
wow, good to know

>>5331008
But the truly embarrassing thing is that you've just managed to be sucked into the whole 'Martin's a shit writer' meme with a single post, and nothing on this earth will ever change your mind.

>>5340434
Oh I think he has shitty prose and average story/characters. It is just that back when I've read it I was too much of a pleb to notice how shitty his prose actually is.

>>5340432
Not all of it. There are a few exceptions. But yeah, most of fantasy is shit.

>>5340418
He's got a point. The extent to which characters are shaped by what transpires around them, instead of marching through the story in a protective bubble, is remarkable and has been rarely matched, at least in recent years. At the same time characters don't necessarily experience an artificial, contrived arc in which they undergo some change that was obviously prepared for them. Their reactions and motives are natural and well done. Two badly written paragraphs out of 4000 pages doesn't change this fact.

>>5340444
ASOIAF isn't shit though, and that was my whole point.

>>5340449
It isn't. It is an average fun novel.

>>5340460
Not him but it's a little more than that, disregarding the inconsistent quality of the writing.

>>5340460
huh. i'd call the Harry Potter books a typical average series.
ASOIAF is pretty much above average.
not a masterpiece, but definitely good.

>>5328313
>Feast for Crows
I've just bought this one, it's the first ASOIF i'm reading without knowing what will happen (TV show)

>>5340626
Did you read the first 3 at least?
also, AFFC is mostly a worldbuilding book.
Jaime's and Cersei's chapters are the best part.
the last 200 pages are rather exciting, the rest drags on a bit.

>>5340638
yes, i did, but i had watched the show before them

The thing is, I'm reading The Brother Karamasov next to it ...

>>5340646
i was just asking bacause some people seem to believe they can just start with AFFC after watching all 4 seasons.

also a friendly reminder if you didn't know already:
Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and several others don't appear in book 4.
AFFC focuses on Cersei, Jaime, Sam and Brienne and Sansa.
sadly a lot of new (minor) POV characters are introduced too, so the story spreads out a bit too much for my taste.

>>5340667
Yes i've heard that it was like this. Hope it'll catch me anyway

>>5331188
By that same logic, for all the time you spend being an edgy faggot on 4chan, you could look for pussy in the real world.

>>5340680
don't fall for the bait please, or he#ll come back and shit up the thread again.

>>5340680
>By that same logic, for all the time you spend being an edgy faggot on 4chan, you could look for pussy in the real world.
kek

>>5340678
if you can read literary fiction you should have no trouble with AFFC and ADWD. the complaining about them comes from plebs who typical reading material is Harry Potter.

>>5340807
nah.
the complains come from people who expected AFFC and ADWD to be as exciting as ASOS.
the books are enjoyable, but if you are spoiled by the previous books, it's understandable why people are disappointed.
AFFC and ADWD are the set-up for the next big climax and that is reason enough to love those books.

>>5340820 >>5340807

Ok thanks, and is it a good idea to read a book like BrotherKaramasov a the same time ?

>>5340887
i don't think it#s good to read any book at the same time with AFFC.
while the first three books had a simpler plot (War of the five kings), the last two focus more on political drama and the clean up after the war.
it is quite demanding at times to remember the 20 "side character no. X" that are needed to create a more political story, therefore distracting yourself by simultaneously reading something else may confuse you.
that being said,
Cersei's descend into madness is quite amusing to read, even if it's mostly politics (i hope i didn't spoil too much, and sorry if i did).

>>5340901
OK ! Don't worry no spoiler

Eddard Stark lives,they used the faceless face change technology to transfer his face to another prisoner.They will reveal that he's alive in A Dream of Spring.

>>5340999
that would be the worst writing in history.
as if GRRM doesn't bring back enough characters from the dead already.

>>5333214
> You could easily describe the same sound with reference to letters and vowels without resorting to an onomatopoeia. He's also tripling up here. He says the warhorn cried, then he writes the sound out, then he describes the sound further.

It's not three repetitions of the same effect, each instance has a different function. First you are told "A warhorn blew" - only symbols, only a fact, only impressing on you connotations (a war, somebody announcing it, so armies coming). On its own it's too cerebral to achieve the intended tension, but it does instill apprehension, it does introduce to you that action is coming (a micro version of why this passage is there at all - the chapter and the ones before have basically been about people getting ready for this battle.) And within this context it's coming suddenly - clipped, quick, startling. And it's "a warhorn", not "the warhorn" as you said - the person blowing is unspecified and unknown, as is the sound's origin, so it comes from nowhere and anywhere. Spooky.

Next comes the sound written out itself, to give you exactly what "a warhorn blew" is, and that's the full extent of what that word does. This segues directly into the next description because the idea is simply that you retain the unmodulated, meaningless sound when context comes to tell you what is happening, "long and low and chilling and cold", to sweep you up in sensation, to impress on you terror.

>The metaphors are awful. The warhorn both cries and is a wind from the north.
Your conflation, "a wind from the north" is not describing the sound of the warhorn

GRRM's writing is often clumsy and inelegant, but here it's not redundant or ineffective.

>>5340999
>Eddard Stark
Sounds like the name of an aging hair metal performer.

>>5333231
Yes, it absolutely lacks grace. It's describing a queen ripped from her throne, dumped in the middle of a field and left to fend for herself as she starves and gets sick. During the ordeal she has an epiphany and decides she's been pretending to be a moderate, conflict-averse ruler, and she embraces mercilessness and brutality as her way of dealing with her subjects. It lacks grace because the entire chapter strips her of any sense of decorum so that she'll drop her pretensions.

Same with the fat pink mast thing. It's awkward because it's a fat virgin loser nerd getting laid for the first time.

>>5341379
i find it hilarious how many people shit on (no pun intended) GRRM for describing Dany shitting her guts out.
how can you even describe that gracefully?
that would sound even worse than the original.
Also, i think most /lit/ users never really read ASOIAF, just parroting the hivemind's opinion that GRRM sucks.
don't even bother defending his prose, no one will agree with you here.

>>5341401
Try Baudelaire. His corpses are very ellegant. And no one will deffend his prose because there is nothign to deffend.

>>5328290
Holy shit some of you guys are autists.

>>5341862
why?
is it bad to like ASOIAF?

>you will forever be outshone by a fat neckbeard from Bayonne

Can we all agree that ASOIAF>LOTR?

>>5342920
No. They are so unlike each other that they should be the last works anyone tries to compare. They're both fantastic at what they do but not remotely related. You'd find more similarities between Epic of Gilgamesh and Dickens.

>>5328313
Dance is great.

Feast is bad.

Storm is great.

ITT: Faggots who watched the show can't read

>>5329083
> excessive
> onomatopoeia used twice in the whole book

>>5330612
> needing pretentious descriptions
*tips fedora*

>>5331008
>>5340429
Context.

It's one of the best Daenerys chapters

>>5332567
>Gurm
>like scat

Because of one small paragraph showing that Dany got diarrhea from the stream? There's way more fucked up shit in AFFC/ADWD that nobody ever mentions.

is /r/asoiaf anyone else's guilty pleasure

I just like reading the crazy asoiaf theories like jorahzor ahai or the bolt-on otheory

Were /got/ threads banned from /tv/?

>>5336162
This. If there's one thing he's done well, it's pulled the plot armor off character types. In any other medieval/fantasy setting, Sansa would've been rescued in the second book by Loras Tyrell who would naturally have remembered her name out of true love at first sight.

>>5343525
i believe in ajorah hai
it has to be true, he's the fucking man

>>5340141
if you want to be immersed in a fantasy world, just play Skyrim.

The books are fantastic. The show is total shlock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW2qTkW5cmk

>>5330621
hardly surprising, given that a lot of his experience is as a screenplay writer.

>>5343271
This. The all chapter is amazing don't listen to cherrypicker.
>Remember who you are, what you were made to be, remember your words: fire and blood.

>>5334708
Goes back to Winterfell and does what Robb tried to perhaps with more success

>>5344081
>implying Ned wouldn't just actually join the Night's Watch like the honorfag he is

>>5342920
if you like worldbuilding LOTR is better.
if you like characters ASOIAF is better.
you cannot compare the two at all.
keep in mind that GRRM was inspired by Tplkien too.

>>5344260
> you cannot compare the two at all.
Yes you can, ASOIAF is utter dogshit by any reckoning you could throw at it.

>>5344348
nice meme

>>5344348
Oh c'mon man. It at least has 2D characters and a semi-decent plotline.
But the style is dogshit, I'll give you that.

>>5343552
no?

>>5334675
Nah, it doesn't really have a timeless quality to it. It lacks an archetypal plot that's easy to remember, no single strong lead or group to identify with, doesn't do anything new enough to be relevant on its own for. It might also suffer from being so closely associated with the TV show, which will almost certainly be seen as low quality by then (if the general upward trend in TV quality continues).

It will refine some of the cliches of genre fiction, spawn copycats for a while and then fade out at best. Genre fiction nerds will remember it as a minor turning point towards "gritty-realism", and, "anyone can die!" It might help kick off the popularity of feudal period dramas in the west.

>>5346410
Based anon.

>>5333154
>as if tailored for a mainstream audience

And so we come to it at last, the true motivation behind every post on every board about every topic on 4chan. "It's popular, so we can't be seen to like it".

I don't like it

>>5340626
wow you fucked up badly son

>>5346410
Pretty accurate.
i will be a big hit for the next 20-30 years, but i think it may fade away.
Not to say that it isn't a decent series.
The strong lead/group thing is actually what makes the series so appealing for many readers.
you can choose your own protagonists.

>>5328358
>not intersecting it with the 80 years' war

>>5348081
It's like a pseud's Godwin's Law

>>5346410
what a bunch of absolute drivel

>>5343525
Also Hight septon=howland

>>5342920

itt: assholes from /lit/ tell you much better LOTR is and how shit ASOIAF is

>>5353733
>assholes
And by that you mean 'intelligent people', right? Fucking Americans, I don't even.

>>5353774
But if you tell him his favourite schlock is shit his feelings will be hurt.

>>5353774
I am not even america ya dingus
so what if people like asoiaf? what is your problem with it and why does your autism kick in

>>5353781
It means more schlock gets published because it earns more money than quality literature. And that way what we love suffers.

>>5353784
It makes more sense when you put this way yet it is still selfish to shit on other people for what they like

what is the frequency on this thread?like 5 posts per day or something?

>>5353781
>so what if people like asoiaf?
No nothing. Lots of people liking it doesn't make it not shit.

>>5353785
>it is still selfish to shit on other people for what they like
'Waah waah my feelings were hurt'. Go fuck yourself, you have shit taste and you're emotionally invested in shit books.

>>5353818
what a fucking sperglord
you think I give a shit what assholes here think of my taste in books? it is just if you don't fucking like it don't post you are ruining the quality of discussion

>>5353827
>quality discussion
>about asoiaf
>implying there is something to discuss aside how bad the prose is

>>5353839
You can discuss everything and anything too bad your autism won't allow to think much further from what you read

>>5353841
>be on 4chan
>be an idiot
>not see obvious bait being obvious

>>5353781
>so what if people like asoiaf? what is your problem with it and why does your autism kick in

It's devoid of any deeper meaning, backstabbing seems to be the entire point of the series.
All the honourable characters have been made purposefully stupid.
All of the characters are crass and there are only a handful that have any charisma or are barely likeable, like Tyrion, Jamie, Jon, Arya.
The vast majority of characters are insufferable cunts.

The magic is boring and cliche, a few wolves, a couple dragons and the undead, nothing new, not even a decent take on existing themes barely even touched on or used most in the series.

It's riddled with childishly written 'shock' scenes that aren't even imaginative as well as obvious screen writing constant cliff hangers and lame edgy plot twists (repeatedly pulling on your investment for entertainment).

The subject of the majority of the series seems to be entirely based on backstabbing and gossip.
It's some of the shallowest shit out there.

>>5353875
you are making a few good points but it is just not for everyone sometimes I don't mind reading something a little bit simple less complex and more fun

>>5353827
For a person who purportedly "doesn't care" you seem incredibly buttblasted.

Can you now leave to some other place, please?

I read the first page of the first book and I literally laughed out loud at how stupidly written it was.

>>5353875
You make some good points, but I have to disagree:

>It's devoid of any deeper meaning
You are right, but it's for entertainment mosty, therefore a deeper meaning is essential.

>All the honourable characters have been made purposefully stupid.
I must disagree here. While Ned was stupid, he was not the only honorable character.
Davos is a pretty smart guy, Brienneis not stupid either.
The idea that honor has no place in ASOIAF is popular, but false.

>All of the characters are crass and there are only a handful that have any charisma or are barely likeable, like Tyrion, Jamie, Jon, Arya.
>The vast majority of characters are insufferable cunts.
That's entirely up to you. The good part of ASOIAF is that you choose your own protagonists. I don't like Tyrion and Arya, for example, but Theon instead.
There are lots of character types to choose from, not everyone needs to be likeable.

>The magic is boring and cliche, a few wolves, a couple dragons and the undead, nothing new, not even a decent take on existing themes barely even touched on or used most in the series.
It's cliche, yes, but magic is neither the focus of the series, nor the driving factor of the plot.
I'd even go as far and say that Warging and the White Walkers are pretty original.

>constant cliff hangers
Agreed, i don't like them either.

>edgy plot twists (repeatedly pulling on your investment for entertainment).
I think they are pretty entertaining, but that's subjective, i guess.
ASOIAF is based on "cause and consequence", can be predicted, as every action in the series has a consequence.
I saw the Red Wedding coming, for example.
I would understand those were M. Night Shyamalan- esque twists, but most of them are reasonable.

>entirely based on backstabbing and gossip.
Welcome to medieval politics, anon.
The Red Wedding was inspired by a real event, by the way.
There are several plotlines that don't feature politics, so it's not entirely based on plotting and backstabbing (Bran, Sam, Brienne).

>It's some of the shallowest shit out there.
That's your opinion and i accept that.
I however disagree.

>>5354452
Give this child a cookie

>>5354488
What the hell is wrong with you?
At least he contributed to discussion, you didn't.

>>5354000
do people on this board actually read books for the prose? autism

>>5354559
you know that this was most likely bait, right?

>>5354559
I can read books with bad prose, but there is a difference between bad and stupid, that was stupid, so I'm not gonna read it.

Do you guys realize that we weren't discussing this shit if it wasn't for the TV show?

Are they entertaining? Sure. But there are zillions of entertaining books.
It's kinda obvious that a lot of people hate them just because they're popular, but why can't the fans accept that there are some people that just don't like them?
I just read the first one and I find it lacks any interest, so I consider the others are not worth my time.

>>5331998
It's tradition, nigger. There is no place for feelings on 4chan. Hell, there's no place for feelings in literature either. Stop being a stifling influence on the art, you insufferable milquetoast.

>>5354683
It gets a lot better with the later books, but i agree with your post.
If you're not interested in the characters by now, you shouldn't bother with the rest.

>>5340685
>Implying it is possible to shit up a GRRM thread

>>5333528
>There's nothing graceful about shitting your guts out, let's praise GRRM for his brilliant detachment from aesthetic in order to convey the stunning realism of Dany's anal leakage


This made me laugh more than it should have.
I'm on your side but the wording is just great.

>>5332934
Every time

>>5328311
what is with this joke? u always claim great gatsby is good but you are joking right?

>people calling ASOIAF a masterpiece

my sides have reached Alpha Centuri

it's entertaining for a casual read but

>masterpiece

>>5355166
Who called it a masterpiece?
OP? You know he was doing it ironically.
I don't think anybody thinks it is a masterpiece.
A good read, sure, but no masterpiece

>>5355166
I've never ever heard someone call asoiaf a masterpiece, and I occasionally visit fan forums.

>my sides have reached Alpha Centuri
>le epic reddit meme

Why are you trying to fit in so hard newfag? Almost everyone on 4chan are losers, this is not the kind of people you want to fit in with.

>>5355166

Who is that guy on the right?

>>5355246
>implying

>>5355252
John Green

>>5355246
>>>/reddit/

>>5334512
rip_sides.png

>>5355273

>>5333325

I think the repetition there serves its purpose. She's going through a nonstop process of having to drink gross water, getting the shits, and having to drink more because the shits got her dehydrated. It feels unending.

What is it about warhorns that makes GRRM go full retard? It must have a deeper meaning I'm missing.

>>5355564
Horns and wolves howling.

It's cringe worthy.

>>5343748

>entire holds with ~20 people living in them
>racial tensions that the player is somehow immune to regardless of race.
>bears stronger than dragons
>college of winterhold has a grand total of 3 students
>dat boring as fuck civil war questline

you can do better than skyrim

>>5357446

>what are mods

All you need are like 30 immersion mods.

>>5357455

You can't polish a turd.

>>5357670


Bethesda relies completely on this method.
I run 150 mods and it's amazing.

>>5357446
>you do 4 quests and your king of whiterun
>you do 2 and you're the grand jesus penis of the mage's college, you don't even need to be a wizard

fuck skyrim

>>5357678

Well then Bethesda failed to make a good game for the majority of their playerbase.

A company can't make a game and rely on the community to make mods, it's lazy as fuck. Even when I played it with 75 mods it was still shit.

>>5357694
The majority of their playerbase are PC gamers who know how shitty they actually are.

Without mods Bethesda a shit, if you're on a console then you dun goof'd.

>>5357695
>The majority of their playerbase are PC gamers who know how shitty they actually are.

>>5357699
>implying we don't all pirate

Come on now.

>>5343748

Can you name five Skyrim characters from memory?

The Witcher 3 game director Konrad Tomaszkiewicz can't. His point was that Skyrim - the open world RPG to beat - was often generic, both in terms of its story and the quests it used to pad out the world.

He doesn't want The Witcher 3 to have those weaknesses. He believes that by applying the tighter storytelling skills of the first two Witcher games, the now open world Witcher 3 "will be [the] perfect RPG".

"The lessons we learned from Skyrim is that you need to care about immersion in the game all of the time," Konrad Tomaszkiewicz told GameInformer.

>>5357703
So, 86% of people who bought the game got the incomplete version, and to you this is fine?

Why do you have such low standards?

>>5357734
I admittedly said Bethesda is shit.
What makes them great is the modding community. I currently run around 150 - 160 mods at any given time.

>>5357724
I can name 3 only, because again the game is shit, but mods make it playable.
.
The story is shit, it adds nothing to the lore, but with mods I'm drawn into thge world for some obscene reason.

>>5357694
>Well then Bethesda failed
I agree they do. The quality of their games is in decline.

>>5357703
>pirate
never, actually. I pay for this shit because I love it and I believe in what they do and I want to support them.
I would almost go the other extreme, why don't *you* think like that? It's absurd.

>>5357785
I buy stuff I think is worth the price.
Bethesda is not worth the price.

The reason I have Skyrim on steam right now is their sales. I pirate all DLC.

>>5357804
>Bethesda is not worth the price.
bethesda is most certainly worth the price including skyrim which I did not like very much.
But oblivion and morrowind? Absolutely?

People like you fuck things up for the rest of us.
whatever.
Shitty attitude either way anon - if you play more than 20hours, have the god damn courtesy to buy the god damn game.

>>5357811
>more that 20

See back in my day that used to mean something.

It was 20 hours of actual content not travelling.

I can remember every character from crash bandicoot off the top of my head. Final Fantasy 7 - 9? I'll trivia. Skyrim? Nah. Can't do it.

>>5357822
Skyrim has over 20 hours of actual content too.
Id on't think however, that it's worth playing, the guild questlines are a joke, especially after playing Oblivion, where you actually felt like you accomplished something when you became guild master.
In Skyrim it's just "Oh, remember that guy who joined us 2 hours agor?
Yeah, he's guild master now"
The only good thing about Skyirm are the DLCs

>>5334747

So true, I feel it.

Daily reminder that AFFC is the best book in the series and ADWD being the worst in the series.

>>5358358
I thought ASOS was the best, it's the one that gets the most praise.

>>5355166
>Tolkienfag detected

>>5358511
Asos is objectively the best book

>>5328290
So I take it bashing GRRM and ASOIAF series is the new meme, and has replaced Infinite Jest?

>>5361580
Bashing GRRM isn't a meme, it's just decency and common sense.

May as well just read the wiki.

>the best book is the one where all the epic cool stuff happens

/lit/ pls

The trouble is, the establishment has accepted The Lord of the Rings as good, whereas it never was. And this is forcing it to accept the same for ASoIaF.

>>5361752

Except ASoIaF is actually good and Lord of the Rings is garbage

>>5361755
>good
Nigger please, ASoIaF is mediocre at best. It's a fucking soap opera in book form.

>>5361908
>t's a fucking soap opera in book form.

How?
Kingdoms and ice zombies make a soap?

>>5361908
soap operas don't have hierarchically arranged setups and payoffs, m8.

It's true that ASoIaF's artistic value isn't primarily literary in the sense that it has GOAT prose. It's focus is on story structure and characterization, which aren't given the same credit as an artform because critics have trouble writing essays about why they work.

>>5358358
>>5358511
>>5361081
they're literally all one long book, considering ASOS separately from the books that come before and after is meaningless.

it might at some point be possible to say that the "post-gap" half of the story doesn't work on the same level as the first half, but until then no judgement of ADWD or AFFC is legitimate as we don't know what GRRM wrote them to set up.

>>5337300
Can confirm, I read ASOIAF based on recommendations of this board. This was before the show aired and it got popular.

>>5353818
>Lots of people liking it doesn't make it not shit.

I strongly agree with this statement in its general meaning, but keep in mind something that people on here tend to forget, the reverse also applies: Lots of people disliking it doesn't make it shit.

Fucking endless. /lit/ is full of people like you who just shit all over other people just because they happen to love what you happen to hate.

I hate people like you for this. You're entitled to your own fucking opinion, but you're so fucking obnoxious it's damn puke-inducing.

What are your favorite books? Your time to be judged.