/lit/ - Literature

Of course we do. Note that it applies for young children, you're not supposed to be an Oedipus your whole life. It's something that healthy people grow out of, while some people still can't get out of it and stay insecure and in denial as a result.

>>5330865
honestly, i've never had sexual feelings for my mother. Unless you twist normal familial love to somehow mean childhood sexuality. But it's not

>>5330879
How would you know ? Memory changes drastically after age 6, and most the memory of what happened before is then lost.

>>5330879
you can remember the first year of your life that clearly? wow.

>>5330911
>>5330914
So this whole theory is based on something none of us can remember and cant be falsified? riiight... sounds legit

>>5330852
If youre a moma's boy are you then in an oedipus complex? Cause im one but have a really good relationship with my dad as well.

>>5330944
If you had thought about it for more than five seconds you'll understand where you're wrong.
Protip: five years old children exist even when you're not 5 anymore, and most of them can talk

>>5330945
You have a partially or fully resorbed Oedipus complex. Depends on how much you still cling to your mom.

>>5330958
and how many of those five year olds have told researchers they want to fuck their mothers? Freud is bullshit and i'm surprised by /lit/'s acceptance of this

>>5330964
I felt sexual attraction towards my mom when I was 4-6. Not joking, actually I was glad when I found out that it's an actual thing and I'm not some kind of weirdo

>>5330981
in what sense exactly did you have "sexual attraction" towards your mom? I'm genuinely interested

my mother has great tits

hey anon, actually O complex is the way ol' fashioned Freud brought a fact. Etiologist have found same shit in every other mamals, and we look our parents shit in sexual parnters. Also there's this genetic sexual attraction shit.
Freud put it in the subjective out of view

>>5330990
I don't remember exactly but I know that I was having some nude fantasies. (I didnt know how sex work back then). I used to recall seeing her naked or something when I was in bed trying to fall asleep. It got me hard-I didnt understand that either. Eventually this fantasies switched to "imaginary" women when I got older (like 7 maybe but I'm not really certain about the time it was long ago).

>>5330964
You should ask a psychiatrist. You'd be surprised, really.

>>5331002
this contradicts what another anon said earlier that boys grow out of it in early childhood. Also there's a big difference in looking for traits you are familiar with in others and actually being attracted to your own mother. I wonder what the statistics are for people brought up by foster parents, whether they seek out sexual traits that mirror their biological or foster parents?

I still don't buy the Oedipus complex. But having said that i have had dreams about fucking my sister. I wake up disgusted, but it's happened more than once. I can see this making much more sense because a sibling of the opposite gender of around the same age is far more likely to work as a subconcious sex object than a parent. So maybe people who dont have an Oedipus complex have a sibling complex? Is this a thing? Someone should look into it

>>5331027
I don't know, I cant relate to that since I dont have a sister (I'm the wird guy), but I know I wwas really turned on by milfs sunbathing on beaches when I was like 6-7. I still got a thing for milfs.

>>5331037
you know, my moms just not that hot. Maybe that's the problem here

>>5331044
>tfw ugly mom
>tfw don't really know oedipus complex feels

>>5331027
>this contradicts what another anon said earlier that boys grow out of it in early childhood.

I said that for healthy children, but I'm not sure there are that many healthy children, particularly on 4chan.

>I wonder what the statistics are for people brought up by foster parents, whether they seek out sexual traits that mirror their biological or foster parents?

That's a pretty interesting question but data on this mustn't be easy to get ("so did you want to fuck your foster mom or you biological mom ?").

>>5331027
I sure hope the sibling complex is legit.

>>5330852
>Freud
>talking about degeneracy


its like you dont know about his race

See Freud is a weirdo and he talks shit, but it is a fact that there is sexual attraction for our family, and specially the one from whom we learn "love" (in most cases, mom). There is also the attachment theory. But familiar longterm dinamics put that sexual attraction down.
Anon, don't waste your time trying to say Freud was wrong, he was a perv and he put thing all weird, but if you try to take out all the phallus shit and see the good of the argument, you can make things fit (specially in evolution terms)

>>5330852
http://imgur.com/a/x3Vgz

You say it like if it were a bad thing

>>5330852
>i honestly dont understand why Freud has to bring this perverse sexual element into the equation
The nose knows.

>>5330852
This isn't /lit/, but anyway.
>Just to be clear, nobody here actually accepts the Oedipus complex do they?
It certainly is a thing, otherwise there would be no motherfuckers.
>Specifically the part where all men have sexual feelings for their own mother.
That's not what the oedipus complex is, it wouldn't even be a diagnosis if everyone had it by default. Your average adult man is expected to have replaced his mother with more adequate objects of desire.
>but i honestly dont understand why Freud has to bring this perverse sexual element into the equation
Is this the reason why this offends you? because it touches on a tabu? Well, if you want to understand why Freud brings it up, maybe you should ask yourself: why does this tabu exist in the first place?

BIN fucking Go

>>5330852
I don't really like my mum, but many of the women I find very attractive look a lot like polished-up versions of my mom or paternal grandmother from their younger days. My guess is that there is a biological/genetic explanation that is quite reasonable, but it's still sort of "spooky" when I realize it's happening.

>>5331066
Omfg

>>5331072
>Is this the reason why this offends you?
it doesn't offend me, i just cant relate to it. But it's ok, i've discovered i have a sister complex instead. We are all dirty dogs in our own way.

I'm actually pretty convinced about my sister complex thing actually, based on my own anecdotal evidence. I have a friend with a hot mom and no sister who has an obvious Oedipus complex. I have an ugly mom but an ok sister of the same age i'm pretty sure in my early childhood i would have unconsciously latched on to her more naturally when forming my sexuality. I'm happy with this unscientific proof

>>5331109
>>5331072

It is important that there is a taboo around this and that it is more visible than other taboos. There wouldn't need to be a taboo if it were not (or were not potentially) a problem

The attachment to the mother developing into a sexual desire makes sense to me. After all, what is the male position towards sex other than a) domination and b) physical attachment. To desire to return back to an embryonic state of early childhood becomes part of the natural psyche and sex is perhaps the most prevalent form of physical attachment one can have. Hence it becomes the desire to attach oneself to the mother who holds the promise of the return to childhood.

But along the lines of other things Freud said, there's no way that a child would grow up in our modern-society without repressing sexual attraction that he feels for his mother. The super-ego does its job and any conscious desire for the mother wouldn't be recognised by the ego because it would be repressed. And Freud would probably go as far to say that we utilise the repressed sensation by developing healthier, accepted virtues of sexual development but really they are just disguised longings for yo momma manifested elsewhere (like wanting a girl with blonde hair or blue eyes or who is 6feet5).

>>5331109
>i just cant relate to it.
well, as a healthy adult, you're not supposed to be able to relate, as this shit is buried under levels of self-adjustment.
>i have a sister complex instead
oh really, and freud's the one responsible for talking of perversion? at least he tried to give us the means for understanding these things, getting all mad at him is /pol/-tier retardation, as numerous posts itt prove once again.

>>5331132
Exactly what I meant.

I remember I tried to french kiss my mum when I was about 7. I don't think my intentions were sexual though, I just remember being curious about kissing.

>>5330852
My understanding is that the boy does not literally want sex from his mother (it's before puberty and he essentially doesn't know what attraction is), but has sexual feelings in the sense that he is possessive of the mother. He "courts" her almost like an aggressive alpha male.

>>5331134
>And Freud would probably go as far to say that we utilise the repressed sensation by developing healthier, accepted virtues of sexual development
Exactly. Sublimation, it's called.
>but really they are just disguised longings for yo momma manifested elsewhere
no, they are considered genuine, even if they come out of repression of earlier desires.

>>5331149
>(it's before puberty and he essentially doesn't know what attraction is)
you don't have to know these things in order to have them. children are, as uncomfortable as it may make us, sexual beings.

>>5331137
i'm not a pervert, it's my dreams! I cant control my dreams! And its only happened a few times, and i was always disgusted.

>>5331134
The aspect of wanting to return to childhood holds for my sister complex too. Less symbolic (ie "returning to an embryonic state"), more straightforward (ie "remember how fun it was when you and your sis were little").

I think we need to accept humans develop differently and its too narrow to say all men have an Oedipus complex, but its probably fair to say we all have some similar familial guiding force to our early sexual formation. For most men it probably is the mother, but it needn't necessarily be. The mind is too plastic to make sweeping statements like that

>>5331189
>i'm not a pervert, it's my dreams! I cant control my dreams! And its only happened a few times, and i was always disgusted.
calm down buddy, it's ok. iirc, this is way more common than a full-blown oedipus complex, and doesn't really mean there's anything wrong with you (assuming your sister is close to your own age, that is).

I don't know if it's true or not, but I find it funny how people have such a kneejerk reaction against it, as if they think Freud is some ridiculous creep who had nothing of worth to say. With the zeal that people react against it, you'd think they're hiding something.

>>5331189
>its too narrow to say all men have an Oedipus complex
which no one ever said, as this statement would be self-defeating.

Schlomo is projecting, he's the one who wants to fuck his mother

>>5331238
this

>>5331285
>using a concept of psychoanalysis to discredit psychoanalysis

>>5331238
>>5331332
or maybe the kneejerk reaction is because it is disgusting to people? If freud had said we all secretly wanted to fuck our fathers or eat shit I'd have a kneejerk reaction against that too. Being disgusted by a concept isn't a sign of hiding something.

>>5331339
>that image

Wtf am I looking at?

>>5331148

then what happened?

>>5331371
She pushed me away, looked at me disgustedly and told me to never do that again. Put your dick away.

>>5331358
>he doesn't understand how the existence of disgust proves the existence of desire
what would be the purpose of a disgust towards a thing you wouldn't want to touch anyway?

>>5331367
why, some good advice.

>>5331379

That's an awfully violent reaction, do you resent that?

>>5330852
Outside of Argentina and perhaps France nobody takes Freud seriously but psychoanalysts and a few literary circles.

In France, one of the old bastions of freudism, things are changing : even some pseudo intellectual caricatures like Michel Onfray are going against Sigmund the Retard. There has been a movement of actual psychatrists to reduce the time teaching about freudian bullshit in universities.

>>5331410
well if those aren't great arguments. appeal to authority/ad populum.

>>5331405
On reflection, I imagine it had something to do with her being subject to molestation as a child. There was an incident where she caught me masturbating and the reaction, again, was far blown out of proportion. It's probably resulted in me harbouring some guilt over certain sexual acts, yes.

>>5331380
maybe you read this somewhere in a way that sounded convincing but just think about what you are sayig please. If you have no desire to eat shit but still find the idea disgusting then you are wrong

>>5331428
And...how does that make you feel?

>>5331428

To get past the abuse, you have to beat her up; you have to show the ego that you're not bitchmade.

>>5331430
feces are a different matter, the disgust serves the purpose of avoiding touching it by accident, too. you hardly can bang your mom by accident.

>>5331436
Somewhat resentful I suppose. Without a father figure she should have taken a more pragmatic approach to my sexual education. I did some... very odd things as a prepubescent child in a bid to release the pent up feelings of sexuality that I carried. Very odd. I didn't know what masturbation was until I was about 13. I remember also when I had my first wet dream, I told her immediately with a certain amount of pride, because that's what had been suggested in the sexual education video I had watched at school. Again, she didn't react well.

>>5331410
As opposed to Freud ?

Freud, in spite of his grandiose claim of being the founder of a "natural science" (sic), has built his theories on nothing. No experimental approach ever proved any of his claims. Compare that to say, the palo-alto theory, which is defective in many points but at least tries to have some experimental value in its clinical practice.

All that Freud ever did was constructing an a priori method in a field that simply does not call for it. I'm not an empiristfag, a priori method concerning essences are fine and even mandatory in, say, mathematics or some parts of philosophy. But clinical psychatry must be built on experiments.

>>5331454
your statement was
>the existence of disgust proves the existence of desire
I'm happy you've acknowledged this is untrue
gr8 deb8 m8

I've never found my mother attractive but most of the girls I find attractive have some features in common with her. Having said that, you can probably find features in common between most people, I'm not sure if any meaningful conclusions can be drawn from that. The people who are completely unlike my mother are also completely unlike me, so there's not a lot of common ground there. The reasons that I'm not interested in them don't need to include my mother directly at all.

Do lesbians have Oedipus complexes?

>>5331504

yes

>>5331470
>>5331470
oh great, i have two mutually exclusive answers to that:
if we modify 'existence of desire' to 'the substantial likelyhood of the thing in questio happening', which in the case of banging your mom would require your desire to do so, the argument stands.
also, i wouldn't rush to the assumption that there is no primal desire to fuck around with excrement, as a look at animal behaviour yields some implications to the contrary.

>>5331504
from a purely freudian perspective, no, as freud viewed the emergence of homosexual preferences as something that occurs sometime after the oedipal/elektra phase of development.

>>5330852
Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable or doesn't exactly apply to you (on the surface), doesn't mean it has no validity.

The human mind and subconscious is VERY sexual and perverse. Stop trying to bend science to your deluded ideals.

>>5331510
what about disgust at corpses? is there a subconscious desire to be a corpse?

>>5331537
sounds like an overly simplified account of the thing freud called thanatos, the death drive. So yeah, not exactly the way you try to spin it (the disgust at feces also doesn't exist to counter the desire to be feces, for instance), but something like it.

I think some of you are forgetting the part where these desire are subconscious. Good fucking luck logically considering ANYTHING deep within your subconscious.

I have a deep seeded attraction to older women (motherly, MILF if you will). A part of me thinks this is normal since in modern times we're raised as a society to see late teen-early 20s as the most ideal state of beauty for a woman. This goes against our DNA because we're naturally predisposed to finding child-bearing women of a certain age attractive. Nowadays it's considered a fetish.

Either way if Freud was right then I believe we'd see a lot more people act out these subconscious desires. You could argue that we do without noticing, but I don't think I've lived long enough to witness the bigger picture.

>>5331668
Deep seated, mate. Not seeded.

>>5331678
Whoa, thanks.

>>5331668
>these desire are subconscious
they are not subconscious, they are unconscious. a lot of human behaviour isn't conscious, so that's not a big deal.

subconscious is not a term freud uses, and your use of it just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>5330852
everyone here is too stupid and ill-read to have a worthwhile opinion on the universality of the oedipus complex. but check out pp. 270-280 or so in anti-oedipus. the oedipus complex, structurally, is universal in the same way as capitalism-- as a social limit

>>5331690
I said "I believe" for a reason. It's not like I've sat back and studied this.

This is a poem I built inspired by modern marketing psychology and attachment theory:

Mother fucker
you a mother fucker
nice coke bottle
nice c-cock sucker
malleable whip
shape up
suck the tit
mother fucker
you dirty little mother fucker
Cry
50 pounds please
Yes, I cry
I’m a motherfucker
I come from cock
I’m baby swirl
dependently not
I work now
50 pounds? Yes
Here
you original motherfucker

Protip: not everyone is a pervert that wants to fuck their mother.

Get checked, sickos.

>>5331081

sick fuck

Once my mother stopped paying close attention to me I started desiring my teachers.

>>5330958
I dont cling to her like a dependancy i just really love and cherish my mother. I dont look for women that are similar to my mom, too (not conciously). I dont think i do, at least.

>>5331745

so sweet.

>>5330852
Freud is largely bs and Freudian psychoanalysis doesnt rly have a footing anywhere anymore except in the minds of plebs who never studied psychology

i think at least one thing u can take away from freud is that sexuality isnt perverse but it is pervasive
sexuality isnt rly seperable or so special i dont think

>>5331786
Generally people with bad relations with their mother seem stunted. Good relations with mothers usually are very cute.
No homo

>>5330852

Wait. Nobody here has every banged their mom out of curiosity?

Sucks.

>>5331081
i know people tend to find those who look similar to themselves more attractive, so it is not necessarily lookin like your mom but looking like you.

Empirical research has proven that the Oedipal complex doesn't real. Google it.

>>5331925
actually, it only has proven that there is no significant relation between early childhood experiences and wanting to bang your mom, not that nobody wants to bang his mom, or that male children don't generally have that desire in a certain phase.

>>5331934
Oh shit, I was thinking of sibling attraction