/lit/ - Literature

>>5309302
Shit weather and no wide open spaces.

>>5309302
>we burned all the books from before 1500 years ago
>english is one of the most dominant languages on earth
>we have spoken english the longest of any country between the time we destroyed all those books in the crusades and now

>we're the best

I vote china

inb4 you can't read chinese

Lack of distraction from sunny weather, culinary developments, or, I dunno, something about monster trucks.

>>5309302
because you're from there and need validation

>>5309326
>Shit weather
>0 A.D. + 2014
>still afraid of rain

Every good British writer was either a poet or actually Irish

New England is God Tier

>>5309407
who was yeates?

>>5309302
Russia is more literary.

>>5309396
>not being afraid of being struck by lightning

>>5309302
Iceland. They both write books and read books more often than anyone in the world. Look it up.

>>5309302
The top three: Iceland, France, and Poland.

>>5309493
an irishman

>>5309407
lol

>>5309761
>A.D.
>not C.E.

>>5309784
it is very small, population bias dude

Russia and USA of course

>>5309302
>United Kingdom of Great Britain
the only people that think that are the people from the uk of "great" britain and some "classy" faggots overseas

>>5310019
You are a "moron" who is not "aware" of the so-called "meaning" of the, tch, "woooord" "great."

Australia

USA
runnnin the literary game since world war II

>>5310032
>Cultural wasteland

>>5310068
>Cultural haven

>>5309380
>culinary developments

From travelling the world, London still has one of the most diverse ranges of good quality food than the majority of other places.

Yes, our traditional cuisine isn't quite as extravagent as in other parts of the world, but it's also due to us appreciated such a wide range of different foods.

>>5309302

I live in the UK, and its very anti literary and anti intellectual. People talk about the most mundane things such as their crisp packets or what they had for lunch, which i understand is a way of breaking the ice, but they always seem to be breaking the ice.

No one bothers to read, and if they do, its 50 shades of grey or some bullshit from sainsburies best seller bookshelf.

Dont even try to talk about anything intellectual, its a big no no here unless you are with the right people.

There are people in the UK who cannot even seem to be able to handle that other people will disagree with them, they think that if everyone thinks the same, then its truth. No no, this is not because i am autistic and force my viewpoints.

No one in this country seems to be interested in anything at all, not just intellectually, but also real hobbies like crafting things, making things. Not everything has to be intellectual, but fuck sake, very few people have any impressive skills in anything.

There is a victim mentality all over the fucking place.

But sometimes, even if they do something, they never push themselves to take it up a notch.

Im in the wrong town or the wrong borough or with the wrong people.

>>5310111
What town/borough are you in?

>>5310111
>I live in the UK, and its very anti literary and anti intellectual.
I guess the same can be said for other places in this world.

>>5310122

Sorry, not gonna say. Why though?

>>5310128

The thing is, ive found that other Europeans have some form of a drive for things, they are genuinely interested in things. Something that the English lack.

>>5310111

sounds like every place in the world, UK is still less anti intellectual than America at least. you probably live around chavs anyway.

>>5310150

Na man, this is at University, almost no one is intellectually curious, only about less than a third of people are troopers in what they do.

Being very clever with words is cool though.

>>5310111
Yup, this is pretty much my experience. We are tailing America's level of obesity simply because we have grown a large lumpenproletariat who sit around all day watching the telly, get some greasy shit to stuff in their face, breed some fat spawn and then hit da club in the weekend. We are fucked.

Mexico of course.

>>5310134
I live in Greater London, but have lived in Cornwall.

I find it depends what area you're in. Where I went to school there was a distinct lack of drive for people to read, and it was perceived by my classmates as "nerdy" or "oldfasioned" to read. However, when I went to college I found there were more intellectual people there, and everyone would be genuinely more interested in literature. The University I went to was a mixed story, but the area was lacking in culture which mostly explained that. Whenever I went to visit my friend in Liverpool, I noticed that pretty much all his friends were into reading (good taste too).

So basically it really depends what part of the UK you are in; the crowd of people you are with; class of said people....

I mean we have The Guardian....Pretty based IMO

>>5310007
Then why aren't Andorra or San Marino literary superpowers?

>>5310160
A large number of my friends from earlier years always complain about being bored at home.

I suggest reading or learning an instrument. "Nah m8, that's fuking boring. Rather go clubbin"

I blame football (soccer)

>>5310188
And yet you sit at home all day and shitpost on 4chan.

*so elitist*

>>5310174

Well I hope I get lucky then. My area atm is lacking in culture (its a postwar town near london).

>>5309302
Pretty sure you're thinking of China.

>>5310212
The funny thing is that I don't just sit at home all day on the chan. IT'S 3AM

>>5310213
Do you ever travel into London atall? There's so many cultural activities to partake in. Infact, this September is the Literary festival with a dramatic book reading of Farenheit 451

>>5309302
Bohemia, now known as the Czech Republic

>>5309302
That's not how you spell China

>>5309302
>county

every single Frenchman can write edgy shit
every single Polishman can write bad poetry
every single Russian can write somber stories

every single Brit can't understand rhyming

>>5311929
This, too bad that comunism turned massive part of the population to plebs

Das Land der Dichter und Denker of course

They were gobbling books back then like how murricans do with reality tv shows

>>5309396
no such thing as 0 AD, it was 1 BC then went to 1 AD

>>5310111
you're not allowed to post until you finish school

>>5309784

The studies I've found count christmas presents as money spent on book; especially mentioning the peak around December.

It also counts published university theses as publications.

Receiving a book doesn't count as reading reading. Publishing a theses doesn't make you an author.

>>5310111
>calling it 'sainsburies'
you're what's wrong with this country

Britfriend here currently living in our wonderful capital. Britain used to be patrician as fuck when it came to literature, but we have lagged way behind while the Americans pretty much dominated the 20th century, especially the latter half.

The reason for this imo is the deep class consciousness here. You're literally from a middle-class family writing "proper fiction" or you're categorized as a "regional writer". Regional writers are usually described as "gritty" etc, when what the reviewers mean (the reviewers who are pretty much all the kids of richfags in London) is that anybody who doesn't pronounce their aitches is somehow a representative of the working class.

Also, since the majority of funding goes to and stays in London, anywhere outside of it (barring maybe Manchester and Edinburgh) lack any sort of 'romance' or clear individuality, as they have all become wastelands of unemployment and chain stores.

In the 50s the prominent industries made people proud of their hometowns, and even game them a bit of glamour, most evident by the "Angry Young Men" movement, most of whose authors came from industrial towns, and most of whose anger was directed at the class system.

There are basically two tiers of British writing now:

Tier one:
the likes of Zoe Pilger, Evie Wyld, Will Self, Howard Jacobson, Martin Amis et al. Basically a London-based literati comprised of the children of the rich.

Tier two:
the likes of Richard Milward, Ben Brooks, Rachel Trezise, Joe Stretch et al. Basically "regiona" writers, who write about somewhere that isn't London and are then describes as "the laureate of [name of post-industrial town]".


Most authors from both groups are absolute shite, the former because they're too sheltered and wrapped in wool that their work is cliche-ridden and boring in a non-patrician sense, the latter because they often try very hard to be "edgy" (see: Milward's chapter about a tween mother throwing her baby from a bridge in Apples, or Ben Brooks's lame attempt to make ket edgy) in order to shock the middle-class publishers eager to find reasons to justify their own banal lives by saying "at least I'm not living in Hull!"

If any of you faggots want to debate me on anything I've written above then I'll do it here or IRL, it's up to you. Ball's in your court.

>>5312144
You should partake in the London Literature Festival which takes place between the 30th September and the 13th October

>>5312144
jesus you couldn't be more of a london stereotype if you tried

no the rest of the UK is not a barren wasteland of fucking post-industrial shit-holes. Any major city has gone through revitalisation in the past decade and only ignorant southerners still hold on to the image of the bleak north.

>>5310111
Could not agree more. I'm lucky enough to be in a circle of people can actually process intellectual conversations rather than talk about their favourite soap opera.

>>5312158
the north is fucking bleak if you live anywhere other than liverpool manchester or nottingham

>>5312176
>he's never lived in GOC

pleb

>>5312156
Stop shilling. Also stop using the word "partake".

>>5312158
The north *is* bleak you shit-eating dunce. The South is too for the most part. There's an area of the south-east where all the rich londoners commute from, but other than that we are a country of people raised to believe we're the best in the world who are then made to call up random old women to try and sell them loft insulation.

Also I'm not from London, I'm from a post-industrial town. There is zero romance in britain other than London and the other cities I mentioned.

Name a single novel written about somewhere outside of London in the last 20 years that isn't "gritty" or "edgy"

>>5312176

North is shit mate, where are you from?

>>5312185
infinite jest

>>5312188
milton keynes

>>5312189
lol

American lit: cool, fun, contemporary, cutting-edge

Japanese lit: edgy, sad, poetic, zen-like towards nature, ascetic

French lit: philosophical, misanthropic

German lit: philosophical, misanthropic, masculine, romantic view towards nature

Scandinavian lit: bleak, existential, domestic in a contemporary sense

African lit: magic & post-colonial shit

British lit: out-dated, boring domestic drama, pulpy thrillers about MI5, London-based romance, edgy regional lit

>>5312212
pretty much

>>5312212
>French lit: philosophical, misanthropic
If you are only taking to account the last 120 years, pretty much. But I don't know if you can mention it as "French Literature".

>British lit: out-dated
Explain please.

>>5312232
>French lit
Existentialism (a largely french phenomenon) was born from a culture already saturated with philosophical thought that contributed to it's coming about. Neither Descartes or Joris-Karl Huysmans could have come from Kent

>out-dated
Zadie Smith (still our most 'contemporary writer', although she her self is a rather superficial rip-off of DFW) claimed her most recent influence in British literature was Wodehouse, which goes some way to suggest the amount of "comedy" produced in Britain over the last 100 years.

Nowhere has it been more obvious that literature was a recreation of the upper classes than in Britain. Even Orwell had to go full retard and sell tacky shit from door-to-door to have any understanding of what actual normal people were like.

Authors like Will Self and Martin Amis, who like Zadie are hailed as "modern, contemporary voices", write in a language that would sound more appropriate coming from the mouth of a bored aristocrat in the 19th century.

The brief success of the "Angry Young Men" shows the culture's inability to deal with authors outside of the upper class. None of those men wanted to be known as AYM, but the establishment had no way of relating to them otherwise. Alan Bennett has been saying what I' saying for years, and he claims to only read foreign fiction because it's gotten so bad.

Read the excerpt from John Pilger's daughters book and see what I mean:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Heart-Out-Zoe-Pilger/dp/1781251347

The dialogue is only spoken by a small handful of privately educated wonks

>>5312212
Latin american lit?

>>5312259
>Existentialism (a largely french phenomenon)
But existentialism is a poor philosophical concept. Also neither Descartes nor Huysmans can be seriously considered as pure existentialists.
Also, as I said earlier, you couldn't reduce French Literature as "philosophical, misanthropic". A lot of the most influential French writers didn't respond to these terms.
It's like saying that Japanese cuisine is mainly famous for its pork preparation while only 2 or 3 of Japanese dishes use pork (don't know if I'm clear).

>>5312176
Lookit this pleb who hasn't been to York.
I'm a filthy Londoner through and through, but York is pretty much the best place to live in this whole godforsaken country

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24713858

Vivat Eboracum!

P.S. Liverpool is fooking shite m8

>>5312284
latin american lit: magic shit, small-town domestic slapstick, left-wing idealism

>>5312284
2666 is bloated and tedious

>>5312288
japan is famous for sushi you bloody maniac. Murakami hated the sushi trope so much he invested himself in the american one of drinking whiskey and smoking cigs.

Descartes and JKH are part of the culture that made existentialism possible, Britain had no such culture, as all of its misanthropes were either religious or richfags roleplaying for attention

>>5312295
>muh fields
>muh tourism

It's basically Bronte without the nice houses these days

>>5309302
who cares, in consequence of the WW1-2 the world of literature has produced almost only depressing shit and nonsense words onanism.
celine, joyce, grossman, pasternak, levi...

And now we are stuck in the tao lin twitterism and martin super-escapism

>>5312309
>japan is famous for sushi
That was my point..
I wanted to make a parallel with you considering that all French Literature is closely linked to existentialism while it's just a minor part of French Literature, and someone that would judge the overall of Japanese cuisine just because they have one dish with pork.

>>5312314
martin super-escapism has always existed, and twitterism is (marginally) better than bloated, self-indulgent obscurantism that a closed publishing world previously existed for.

Tao is mediocre at best, but that's a good thing as it shows that the competition for aspiring writers isn't that difficult to defeat

>>5312314
nabokov

>>5312314
Let's start a resurgence in Neoclassicism anon

>>5312311
Nah, York is pretty based, it's more cultured than most of LDN, and it's comfy as hell.

Plus fitnorthernslags/10

>>5312308
Die, faggot.

>>5312212
Thanks for reminding me how stupid people on this board really are.

>>5312332
>working in the tourism industry

>>5312345
i know you are :)

>>5309302
>why is it the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
Weather is shite all the time, elitist society for centuries..

I'd still say the most literary country is Germany. Considering the size of the population the most high culture books have been written by German authors.

>>5312364
Germany has more people than the UK and has produced less literature.

>>5312345
Uh, yeah, say that to someone who admits that they're retarded RIGHT IN THEIR USERNAMEW. Dumbass.

>>5312367
I was talking about high culture. Like Goethe, Schiller, Heidegger, Stirner, Hegel, Kant etc. etc.

The greatest thinkers were German and I think the "awful German language" is the cause.

>>5312176
Even then parts of Liverpool are pretty shit.

>>5312319
yes, but where are the others?

>>5312323
he has the literary value of wilde

>>5312327
My dream is to find a modern book normal-tier written (no hemingway tokens, no joyce onanism), with a solid story in no fantasy realm(without tfw things happen to please the reader), coherent characters (no maupassant bullshits), and that isn't art-for-art/art-for-nothing like >>5312323.

>>5309302
>baby's first case of Anglophilia

>>5310111

nice triple, also, I feel exactly the same living in the uk

>>5312451
>My dream is to find a modern book normal-tier written (no hemingway tokens, no joyce onanism), with a solid story in no fantasy realm(without tfw things happen to please the reader), coherent characters (no maupassant bullshits), and that isn't art-for-art/art-for-nothing

Dickens?

>>5312510
Charles Dickens?

>>5312510
>dickens

>coherent characters
>not meandering paid by the word writing
>solid story

Okay a Tale of Two Cities is fucking great, by the rest?

>>5310188
>anecdote followed by generalization followed by irrelevant conclusion

At least your friends aren't deluding themselves about their 'intellectuality'.

>>5312451
>coherent characters (no maupassant bullshits)
Which characters are you referring to?

>>5312683
for example madeleine forestier in bel-ami

>>5312791
Is he worth reading?(maupasant)

>>5312844
imho no, he's just another journalist who writes books for marketing.
Yes, he has talent, but doesn't care to struggle for putting it in his books.

If you've read anna karenina, imho maupassant is EXACLY as Vronsky when he paints in italy.

>>5310174
>I mean we have The Guardian....Pretty based IMO

Don't you mean the Guranidan?

>>5312192

Christ have mercy upon your soul.

>>5312176
Sheffield is largely nice, as is York, and Durham.

Surrey master race.

It is quite dull here actually, and then there is slough, a real shit in the ointment.

>>5309326
>no wide open spaces.

Retard detected.

>>5310019
Great refers to size of the island. Stay retarded :^)

>>5310111
>, this is not because i am autistic and force my viewpoints.

>>5310184
that doesnt make any sense, one bias does not counter another bias

>>5309426
fucking this.

people are tryhard nerds if they don't realize that New England is the greatest place to write/ is the most literary region in the world

>>5310111
It's the people. Trust me.

Also, I'd like a point that this occurs in all classes in the UK. Which is something I've always found intriguing.

Every one I know is smart but when they are together they talk about such mundane topics and I think it's a group mentality and I've seen it occur in every class.

The only people I've ever been able to have an intelligent discussion with are lecturers and that's usually on a one to one basis.

It's amazing what being in a group does to people.

Maybe it's them retreating to some form of childhood mentality around others? I don't know.

But it's not the UK as a whole, it's the people.

>>5312295
York is lovely. I own a house there, that I rent out to students. I plan to go back to York when I'm old. Until then I will spend a fortune on rent to live in central London. When I go to York it stresses me out that everyone is so slow, old ,and white. I'm gonna go back when I'm ready to die.

Anyway British lit is crap at the moment. Hilary mantel is good though. Historical fiction is all we have that's any good nowadays.

>>5309329
>we burned all the books from before 1500 years ago
England is hardly alone in book burning. There are examples in every civilization I can think of. Including China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_books_and_burying_of_scholars

>>5314214
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book-burning_incidents

>>5312176

Typical southern mong.
I grew up in the Lake District, you can't get much more northern, and yet it is without doubt the most beautiful place in England and is full of kind, thoughtful, well educated people.

>>5309326
>no wide open spaces
nah

>>5317111
It's only beautiful because members of the Southern Masterrace visit it often enough for the local trolls to make it "look pretty for master"

>>5317111
>>5317111
>>5317111

Shut the fuck up and keep your inbred bickering to yourselves. Englishness is irrelevant in the twenty first century.

>>5317126

If you actually believe this I feel deeply sorry for you.

>>5313728
pay stamp tax pls

>>5317133

Its not about Englishness, its about people completely dismissing the north as being a bleak, industrial wasteland without having any idea of what we actually have up here.

>>5317134
It's not a matte of believing, as of accepting clear facts. Anywhere north of Lincoln is a cold, dystopian wasteland

>>5310174
Liverpool has the second best public library I've been to. Good little music scene to. Spent many days discussing jazz with a guy in a music shop there.

>>5310184
I loved the time I spent in Andorra. Beautiful little country.

>>5317171
Great comment man

>>5313568
No it doesn't. You're just wrong.

>>5314093
I've had some great conversation with some oldies in a used book shop I frequented heavily while I was there. I really only ever went for a conversation. I never often bought anything.

But I'm an American, and while I've been to England every year, I think part of what makes the conversation interesting is the "culture clash." We actually have things to say to each other because we don't agree on an everything.

>>5317179
Thank you.

>>5309302
What is Atlantis

>county
Fuckin retard doesn't know the United Kingdom is a nation. Get this boy a map.

Best literary region is Appalachia.

Yankees need not apply.