/lit/ - Literature

>speaking latin

>>5267622
> speaking latin
Benedictine scum

>He doesn't speak Latin with the correct, non-hilarious inner Urbs pronunciation
>He speaks Latin like an Americanus and thinks it's okay

You can't do it right, so why bother ?

>>5267653
>weni widi wiki
no thanks

>>5267653
>in studiis graecis
>discens quam dicam linguam graecam recte
>rhetor dixit, res habet nullam gravitatem
>tu quod amice?
>rhetor dicere coepit, nemo sciat vero quam graeci ipsi dixerunt
>surgo
>clamo, si verum sit, graeci hodie dicant linguam sclavorum!
>rhetor, tremens aperte, deiecit ceram eius et codicem, et fugit lacrimans lacrimas crocodilicas
>graecus hirsutus inivi, novus rhetor noster, et posuit gyrones in mensas omnium discipulorum
>carmina homeri cantaverunt, et aquila, nomine "mos maiorum", volavit et unam lacrimam effudit in gyrone meum
>nunc discimus et dicimus recte in lingua graeca
>primus rhetor postea in gladium eius incumbuit

>>5267674
Tv cinaede es
>>>/ex/

>>5267674
>venny veddy veechee
fucking quit you literal pleb

If you went to a good school (a Catholic school) you would have learned Latin. Why are you so heretical, /lit/?

>>5269871
⇒tfw learned latin in school
⇒tfw later never needed it again

It was an easy A grade but also a waste of time. I wish they taught more useful languages in public schools.

>>5270160
It's purely a status symbol, except for reactionary teenagers who go through a Latin phase after their German phase. It's supposed to speak to your leisure time; you learn for personal amusement not to acquire the necessary skills for work.

>>5270160
wat. i thought you'd appreciate understanding a language that gives you a key vocabulary for most other western languages as a science type person. that language is all over medicine, biology, chemistry as well

>>5267622
>speak

>>5270160
Latin is the most useful language to teach to kids because it teaches them grammar. A kid who learned Latin in elementary school can easily learn two living languages in high school.

>>5270202
Sure it's nice to recognize the etymology of some words, but the same knowledge could be achieved by simply looking up the words whenever needed and without learning the language.

>>5267622
>speaking Latin
>speaking
If I were some dirty Papist I'd speak it, but everyone else just needs to write and read Latin.

>>5270216
Why not learn grammar by starting with a non-dead language? It's not like Latin is the only language with grammar.

>>5270216
Learning any language early in life will make it easier to learn other languages later, since every language has grammar. Moreover, you learn the strategies necessary for learning a foreign language.

This is like the claim that Esperanto is the best language because it makes learning French easier. Learning French would become easier if you took Mandarin, too.

>>5270216
You have extremely unrealistic expectations of children

>>5270236
>Learning French would become easier if you took Mandarin

>>5270230 here again

I also think learning Latin is kinda disadvantageous because it only teaches passive comprehension of grammer. In Latin classes you almost exclusively translate from Latin to your own language but never the other direction, let alone talk in Latin. But communication is the most important thing when learning a foreign language and should be the main purpose of learning a language at all.

>>5270216
>it teaches them grammar
What the fuck does this mean?

>>5270230
>It's not like Latin is the only language with grammar
What the fuck are you saying. Every language has grammar.

>>5270245
Yep, you'd know the strategies to use to learn a foreign language, like how to find resources in the target language.

You'd also learn not to just stick words together as if they were English, which is something that most people do when they learn their first foreign language.

>>5270259
That was my point.

>>5270270
It would be easier to learn French if you learned another Romance language first, not Mandarin. That's why Esperanto helps with French. Esperanto is very heavily Romance based.

>>5270212
>2014
>not communicating telepathically

capthcha: Plutarch oexirsk

>>5270240
Yeah we should teach all children Esperanto in elementary school and thereafter they should learn Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Classical Arabic, and/or Sanskrit depending on which part of the world they live in and what kind of school they go to. They shouldn't learn there vernacular. We should completely deregulate vernaculars and only use Esperanto and classical languages for formal functions. Esperanto for international relations and classical languages for academia, music, prose, and poetry. Vernaculars like English and Spanish should turn into completely oral languages that focus on folk tales, folk songs, and plebian (but still awesome) poetry.

>>5270278
I didn't mean that Mandarin would make French easier than Esperanto would make it, just that they both would have similar benefits.
That's why it's so stupid to think that Latin makes you better at learning living languages; learning any second language will make learning a third language easier.

>>5270257
English is largely based off of Latin, therefore putting the effort into learning the more complex nature of Latin will help you get better at English.

>>5270312
>English is largely based off of Latin
u wot mate?
Some of our vocabulary comes from Latin, but English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language

>>5270312
>English is largely based off of Latin

>>5270318
The "Germanic" thing is exaggerated, usually by people who only have a cursory knowledge of language. If you were to study Latin, you would see that just about all of the concepts can be applied to English.

>>5270321
Nice meme, my reddit friend.

>>5270342
>The "Germanic" thing is exaggerated
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you understand how language families work?
> If you were to study Latin, you would see that just about all of the concepts can be applied to English.
Yes, like the case system, the free word order, the list could go on.

>>5270362
>What the fuck are you talking about? Do you understand how language families work?

English is part of the Indo-European language family. Do you even know Latin, or are you just talking out of your ass?

>Yes, like the case system, the free word order, the list could go on.

>singling out the only concepts that don't apply to English

>>5270386
Yes, English and Latin are both Indo-European. I'm not sure what your point is. The difference is, Latin didn't change over time to become English. Germanic languages did.
>singling out the only concepts that don't apply to English
>not naming the concepts that do apply to English
OH SHIT, ADJECTIVES USUALLY COME BEFORE THE NOUN IN CHINESE, JUST LIKE IN ENGLISH, MUST MEAN THEY'RE RELATED

>>5270405
>The difference is, Latin didn't change over time to become English. Germanic languages did.

No one ever said it did. You still haven't answered my question: do you actually know Latin?

>OH SHIT, ADJECTIVES USUALLY COME BEFORE THE NOUN IN CHINESE, JUST LIKE IN ENGLISH, MUST MEAN THEY'RE RELATED

This isn't an argument. There are boards like /b/ if you want to act like a retard.

>>5267622
It's interesting question in what language they wrote this damn letter ?

>>5270160
Arrow, why don't you tell them about when you killed three hours translating the voynich manuscript only to find out it was for plot readers?

>>5270230
>>5270236
>>5270257
>It's not like Latin is the only language with grammar.
>... every language has grammar.

Modern languages generally have much less complex grammar, because that's how languages develop. They can also be bullshitted through immersion (resulting in a permanent gringo accent and broken speech for 90% of learners). Latin must be learned meticulously and understood logically, a process that is enlightening for the grammar of your own language, resulting in better diction because you aren't just going by what "sounds right", and for others. Most languages likely to be learned today by Westerners (so, Germanic and Romance) have vestigial or hugely reduced case, voice, and mood systems, and Latin is a template for dealing with these.

Ask anyone who took French or Spanish in high school to explain why a sentence functions the way it does and they probably won't be able to. I live in a country where French education is mandatory, and basically no one knows French well, and sure as shit nobody can explain its grammatical structure. My German classes are full of people asking simple questions and having simple conceptual problems with the use of the dative in some random instance, and the professor is unable to explain it to them other than by repeating her intuitive perception of it from being German. It could be done better, sure, but it often isn't, and wouldn't even need to be if they knew Latin - the two or three Classics majors in the classes are all blazing through it because they only need the textbook.

>>5270240
Like most people in the modern world you'd probably be surprised what used to be standard education for kids just a few generations ago. Latin and Greek were standard for young schoolboys.

http://www.anticopedie.fr/passion/passion-gb/latingrec.html

>>5270413
No, I don't know Latin. How is that relevant? The only thing I'm arguing is that English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language.

>>5267622
>speaking

>>5270435
>No, I don't know Latin. How is that relevant?

Because if you actually did know it then you'd be able to conduct a serious debate on it. Now that I know this I can basically disregard everything you've said.

>The only thing I'm arguing is that English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language.

Just because English a Germanic language doesn't mean it lacks the basic grammatical concepts that unite most Western languages. You're acting as if Saxons invaded England and kept it shielded from the outside world for the rest of history. This is an asinine assumption.

>>5270458
Yes, obviously English has some traits in common with Latin. They are both from the same phylum (Indo-European) but they are not both Romance languages. English is a Germanic language.

>>5270470
Romance languages diluted their Latin influence through use however, while Latin was preserved intact in the British Isles during the early second millennium. The direct influence of Latin as it was for the Romans themselves was felt on English for longer as a Germanic language than Romance languages did. English is a progression towards Latin prescriptivist tendencies, while Romance languages steadily diverge from their Latin origins.

>>5270470
Who ever said they were both Romance languages? I think you're taking this distinction way too far; an English speaker can learn a Romance language fairly easily if he puts in enough work. Most of the concepts will come naturally since they share much of the same heritage.

>>5270491
see >>5270312
>English is largely based off of Latin
And yes, I agree, Romance languages are some of the easiest to learn for English speakers.

>>5270292
this, THIS

>>5270435
Dude you look like a clueless retard and it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. No offense bro, just saying

>>5270318
It teach grammar because most english speakers don't understand things like conjugation, inflection, infinite forms until they learn another language which presnets these things

Lastly french comes from latin and English is quite mixed with french.

To the point that English is a far closer language to French then it ever could be to German.


>>5270342
The first part I believe to be true, however the second part alluding to the fact that latin would be easy to learn I completely oppose.

Latin would be extremely difficult to learn

>>5270405


This is why you ignorant fool who knows history.

Latin turned to french, in turn the french(Normans) conquered England.

Which in turn is why Middle English and onward are very frenchlike in nature.

While it is true that English is still slightly more resembling of the Scandinavian languages then french, it much further from German than any of the romances.

>>5270626
>claiming English isn't a Germanic language
>calling me retarded

>>5270704
>Latin would be extremely difficult to learn
for you

>>5270342
>The "Germanic" thing is exaggerated, usually by people who only have a cursory knowledge of language. If you were to study Latin, you would see that just about all of the concepts can be applied to English.
English is not a Germanic language because it has "concepts" in common with Latin... Well, it's a good thing you don't have a cursory knowledge of language. If you even had that much, the world would be less amusing.

>>5270704
Middle English are very frenchlike. It are further from German than the romances. I am knowing because of my learnings - a book told me.

>>5267788
>tu quod amice
lost it

>>5270729
He didn't mean that and you know it. The fact that you're arguing about such trivialities shows much about your superficial knowledge of language. You're no better than undergrads on /sci/ who argue that .9999=1 because they just found out about series;

>1614 + 400 AD
>acting as a ruffian in the town center

>>5270829
No I didn't know that. I have autism. What else am I supposed to think when he says a language is based on another language?

> not learning proto-indo-european (aka lithuanian) instead

step it up, guidos

>>5270762
underrated post

>>5269871
I went to a Catholic school from kindergarten to 7th grade (in the U.S., obviously) and it didn't even teach languages. Did get a fairly sound knowledge of all the Abrahamic faiths though.

>>5267622
Popes and cardinals speak usually in latin
Imho the vatican state is + or - the only place in the world that speaks officially in latin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuuUcIrd2AU

>>5271860
They speak church Latin which is different to classical Latin of performers or New Latin of reformers.

>latin
>spoken

>these niggas all read Latin in their heads
>2014
>being this post-Caesar

>>5271871
Is really that much different? just asking.
I not able to speak or read latin

>>5271896
They're pretty different. Even in classical Latin there's a Golden Age and Siver age where how much Greek you know affects your understanding, and both Greek and Latin have cases of word smithing and puns which any editor today would tell you, No, flat out. Church Latin has much softer sounds, and reflects much more Romance phonetics than classical Latin phonetics- che instead of ki, etc.

>2014
>not speaking any slavic language
>still being a latinboo

slavs have all the grammatical quirks romans had, but more refined

probably because, like, most of slavic languages are alive, or whatever

>>5271896

It's ecclesiastical latin. I'm not sure of the differences really beyond they use an italian accent to pronounce it.

>>5271896
Latin poetry is based on syllable timing. Some have double time, some single.
Like a drum beat, lines have fixed patterns of short and long beats, but in Church Latin, all syllables are single-time, and the sound is lost.

>>5271949
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYEuJ5u1K0

>>5271932
>>5271937
>>5271949
thanks /lit/

>>5270744
>top kek

>>5270808
oh fuck I completely missed that. That's hilarious.

I'm going to start using this as /lit/'s new meme.

It'll be even bigger than "mon visage quand"

>>5271793
What the fuck? Did you go to one of those new age Catholic schools? Mine was very traditional, so we were taught Latin, for the Latin mass, and we weren't taught about Islam and the synagogue of satan beyond a basic overview.

>>5272214
'You are in friendly'?

>>5272281
u wot m8?

>>5272436
Enlighten me

>>5267788
lellus optimus maximus

>>5272494
No, it means literally "u wot m8"

>>5272544
Oh right, thanks

>>5267622
I learned all of my Latin from Fallout: New Vegas.

A-a-a-a-ave, true to C-caesar...

>>5270245
as a person who learned english french mandarin and spanish at an early age
mandarin did not help with the other three languages at all
but english is helping me even now while im trying to teach myself icelandic
it only helps when its in the same vein
any "strategy" you may employ in learning a second language you already learned with your mother tongue

Cui bono?

>>5270216
This. Latin strikes a good balance between familiar vocabulary and more complicated grammar. Teaching kids grammar gets them to think more about how they use language, how language works. Reading Vergil is good for you, and self-studying French or German is easy mode after learning Latin.

>>5271934
>slavs have all the grammatical quirks romans had, but more refined
This.

>>5274682
Yeah but they have almost no writers, philosphers, or poets. Whereas latin has some of the greatest minds ever, Cicero, Virgil, Horace.

>>5267622
hey that was the art work for the front cover for the aptly named cossacks pc game

>>5274710
So many memories, good times. I knew I saw it somewhere, but couldn't put my finger on it. Thx anon, you brought me back a few years back.

>>5274701

never heard about any of your shit poets

just read russian literature

>>5274701
>they have almost no writers, philosophers, or poets
this is patently false. maybe you're just not familiar with them?
>greatest minds ever
yes they're great but probably a large part of the reason you think so is because of how revered they are historically. seriously how much Cicero do you read? you're just repeating the shit that's bounced around in our society, and Latin happens to be a higher prestige language than any Slavic one.

>>5271949
And how exactly people know this?
Was some ancient tape of Aristotles speaking some random babble discovered in Malta or whatever the fuck he lived?

>>5267622
I'm quite sad when I'm reminded of my education. Looking back there was so much I could have taken advantage of but I never took it completely seriously because I was a typical schoolboy and didn't want to put effort in/learn anything/see the benefit of my education.

For three years in my secondary school latin was compulsory and I didn't really try hard enough with it as I would now if given the opportunity again. I can barely remember how to have a very basic conversation, I'm sure I'd fuck up the verbs as well. Such a shame because it's a beautiful language and one which nearly all western tongues are descended from to varying degrees.

tl;dr if you're reading this and you're still in school, learn latin

Also if you're a brit you probably used the same text book I did and my father did as well, they haven't changed them in 80 years apparently. I can remember the first line as well, Caecillius est in horto.

>>5267622
>he doesn't' speak latin and ancient greek

>>5270179
>except for reactionary teenagers who go through a Latin phase after their German phase.

You are going to have to elaborate on that.

>>5274701
It's just that Rome is more studied and more known, and Latin has that ring to it, unlike Slavic languages.

Also, Slavs had no writing systems, they were just barbarians. Their oral tradition is rich, too bad they couldn't write it down in ancient times.

>>5275448
one of only few good things reached in Italian hischool