/lit/ - Literature

>>5259539
It's only pretentious if you view it as such.

>>5259539
and that is wrong because of...?

>>5259539

Its not art, its the people who like to do it to "transcend" and "express their inner self" or some faggy bullshit like that.

Im sure there are good artists, and down to earth artists.

>>5259541
pretentious is descriptive not prescriptive, if it's pretentious it's pretentious regardless of how you see it

>>5259544
>its the people who like to do it to "transcend" and "express their inner self" or some faggy bullshit like that
I agree that it's more the people's attitudes than the art itself but not for the same reasons. Transcendence and inner self or whatever is fine if it is defined and meaningful, instead of random gibberish word salad that a lot of it is.

Most artists have next to no idea what they're doing and it's revolting.

>>5259542
Then it's a waste of time.

>The sculpture's deceptively simple title invites multiple associations: it alludes to die casting, to one of a pair of dice, and ultimately, to death. As Smith remarked, "Six feet has a suggestion of being cooked. Six foot box. Six foot under." Rationality, evoked by Die's purely geometric configuration, is countered by the sculpture's brooding presence. Meaning becomes relative rather than absolute, something generated through the interplay of word and object. Weaving together strains of architecture, industrial manufacture, and the found object, Smith radically transformed the way sculpture could look, how it could be made, and how it could be understood.

T O P K E K
O
P
K
E
K

>>5259544
>its the people who like to do it to "transcend" and "express their inner self" or some faggy bullshit like that
>>>/sci/
>>>/sp/
>>>/tv/
>>>/v/

>>5259573
living is a waste of time, at the end nothing matters
>the more you know.

>>5259592
How insightful.

>>5259562
You make it sound as though pretentiousness is objective.

>>5259594

>>5259597
It's not 'objective' - don't even know what that would mean - but it's a property of the situation that has nothing to do with how you perceive it because you don't perceive pretentiousness(you only get hints or assume), it's acted out or happens when a sign devoid of an authentic signified is on display.

>>5259580
>>5259580
This is why no one takes art seriously

>>5259580
>Meaning becomes relative rather than absolute, something generated through the interplay of word and object.

>dat lack of segue
>dat lack of relation
>dat forced assumption(meaning being absolute)
>dat highschool tier vocabulary(relative - absolute)
>dat glorification in the over and under analysing of a vapid pun
just vapid as all hell

>Weaving together strains of architecture, industrial manufacture, and the found object, Smith radically transformed the way sculpture could look, how it could be made, and how it could be understood
I'll give them look and made, maybe, seeing as that's a purely historical fact but understood lmao.

Reminder that this is considered good art

>>5259614
>pretentiousness is metaphysical

>>5259584
Oh golly, I can't believe this, I thought I clicked /tv/ and this seemed so much like a /tv/ post I didn't question it hahaha

>good "art"

>bad art

>>5259614
Let's assume that the definition of pretentious is as follows;
>Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed
Surely whether or not something is of importance or worthy of merit is wholly subjective. Does that not mean then that whether something is pretentious or not is down to perspective?

>>5259646
>the warm heat of the vivid red joins with the midnight sky blue to conjure the warmth of a dark night's fire in your bones
>>5259649
>why's the fucking lamp lit it's daytime 2/10 best i could do

>>5259539
its only as pretentious as the people who define it

>tfw when they don't make art like this any more

>>5259631
because liberal faggots think that every time someone shits in their hand and wipes it on a canvas and claims its an expression of something, its art. the art community needs to start condemning bullshit and get real.

>>5259646
Paintings can rarely be fully appreciated over the net. I'm not sure what's impressive about that painting, but nobody has any room to comment if they haven't seen it in person.

>>5259646
rothko is good fuck off

>>5259653
In that case yes, if that's how we would define it but that leaves a lot out and I really don't like the emphasis on 'importance'. I would say pretentious is putting on a pretence, and that is all.

>>5259667
>he thinks art is supposed to be logical!

Why don't you go convince a few people that God isn't real while you're at it?

>>5259668
>Boobs can rarely be fully appreciated over the net. I'm not sure what's impressive about those boobs, but nobody has any room to comment if they haven't seen those boobs in person.

>tfw when they don't make art like this any more

>>5259646
>>5259649
I like both of these.

>>5259646
>>5259649
that's actually true though. the bottom one looks kitschy and trite. the top one is pretty striking at the very least.

>>5259676
>liking Kinklade

He makes kitsch intended to be mass produced and sold to your grandmother

>Deviantart rejects getting butthurt because no one takes their anime drawings seriously
You probably make witty comments on YouTube videos about modern art too. Get rekt, you talentless hacks.

>>5259673
Do you think that pictures of people look like that person face to face?

>>5259674
>tfw real people put there hands there

>>5259671
you are exactly the kind of person he was talking about. you should kill yourself

>>5259681

>tfw people think this is an art bash thread
m8 we love this shit, that's why it's so disheartening when you constantly rub up against art analysis that is down right retarded masking as philosophical rumination

>>5259684
It depends on the picture. My point was that to suggest no worthwhile opinion can be formed of, in this instance, a picture of a canvas painting, solely because you haven't seen the picture in person, is ridiculous.

>>5259649
>>5259677
>>5259679
Kinkade's paintings lack inspiration and soul. They are kitsch, like the other anon said--or even what the Russians call poslost'.

If you look at this painting in particular, >>5259649 it seems like the painter had no real thought in his head, no real driving notion. It looks like he just slathered paint on a canvas and called it quaint.

This has nothing really to do with the merit of the art itself, but you must know there's a reason why Kinkade has hundreds of his own art galleries in Wal-Marts across the USA: it's plebwerk for the undiscerning.

>>5259699
>My definition of 'art' is more apt than yours!!

>>5259686
>cro magnons
>real people
tip kok

>>5259701
I never said it's not art.

I'm just saying it's not good art.

>>5259703
important post

>>5259701
>I've been conditioned to think that I am little flower and my braindead opinions are as valid as anyone else's
No. The post you're quoting is spot on.

>>5259668
Ive seen a Rothko up close. They're just as shit in real life as they are over the internet.

>>5259649
I work at an auction house. Paintings like this are common,static, and unremarkable.

>>5259711
There's really no need to go into every other thread and make this kind of reply.

>>5259740
don't forget ugly

anyone who thinks it "looks pretty" is a shit human

>>5259742
worthless shitpost

Plebs just freak the fuck out when they see something that isn't in their comfort zone, that doesn't operate on any identifiable logic. It's the same with film. Non linear films are often dismissed as pretentious.

>>5259716
>I've been conditioned to think that an inherent superiority can exist in matters of subjectivity

Bitch please. Make no mistake, I've not formulated an opinion on any of the art posted in this thread, I'm not fighting for the cause of 'kitsch' art as it has been labelled, or battling against the movement of modern art, I'm merely pointing out that the idea that art holds an innate state of quality is wholly delusional.

>>5259761
>I'm merely pointing out that the idea that art holds an innate state of quality is wholly delusional.

If you are unwilling to concede to the fact that some works of art are more striking and employ better technique than others, then this conversation is done and all parties should walk away.

If you can't even concede to this, nothing can be accomplished and we are done.

>>5259761
>the piece of art on the right is better becuause muh subjectivity

Yeah maaaan, everything is so subjective. My hands are air. Objective technical skill is not real and me smearing my own feces along my forehead can rival Picasso!

>>5259649
i dont feel much when i look at this

yeah theres some craft in it, but its boring

>>5259776
lel
Stop thinking in the false dichotomy of good and bad. It's littered all over your post.

>>5259770
I will concede that the ability to employ better technique can vary. Obviously a child has a far more limited range with a paint brush than an adult who has dedicated their life to it.

>>5259787
Yeah i dont particularly find Van Goghs sunflower studies to be very interesting. Although, there is an obvious choice in colour palette in Goughs piece. There is also emotion in there. You can tell that Van gogh was a depressed neet while painting this. Thats something that pushes van gogh apart from other painters in general. Along with his style being very strange and new for its period.

>>5259665
Do you think it's because we have recording devices like cameras? Videos and photographs make realist pictures obsolete in some sense. Obviously I'd much prefer to have that painting than a photograph of the real thing though.

>>5259699
>it seems like the painter had no real thought in his head
>analyzing art by trying to determine the thoughts of the artist
>muh intentional fallacy
>muh sides

>>5259803
you sound latin american, from the way you write

a couple of months ago i would've disagreed with you. i loved the sunflower series - still do, to an extent. but you're right, there's not much more to van gogh than historical significance and emotional candidness

he's a great gateway artist though, if you'll forgive the shitty expression

>>5259668
sounds like a pretty shitty artform if the only people who can 'truly' experience or comment on it are those who can fly out to galleries halfway across the world to see it

>>5259914
There's a big difference between going in with the purpose of trying to determine the thoughts of the artist and a painting screaming at you those thoughts (or lack thereof in this case).

>>5259702
cro magnon was homosapiens like us you faget and the first species to be patrician enough to even make art. looking at those handprints is kind of weird thinking that maybe 30.000 years ago there were actual people there

>>5260123
>tfw somewhere millions of people are literally dying of hunger and someone spends a couple million dollars on a canvas painted in two colors

>>5259646
>>5259649
thinking the value of something is based on how long it took to make is stupid though. it's like judging books by page count

9/10 would admit to art school and way better than a big cube

>>5260261
>>5259649
>>5259646
>>5259580
aside from meaning/how talented the maker is, i'd prefer the cube and orange/blue in my house over a painting of some house. the minimal painting just seems to add something to a room and a giant bronze cube is just fucking neat.

>>5260248
>tfw somewhere millions of people are literally dying of hunger and someone posts on 4chan

>this is what conservitards consider 10/10

>>5260267
>implying i had done anything productive otherwise
>implying i have money

>>5260267
>tfw somewhere millions of people are posting on 4chan and someone literally dies of hunger

>>5260278
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

>>5260278
>having a penis smaller than your big toe

i think one day a hipster is going to go so far that he will organize an exhibition with literally no art in it, as an extreme to minimalism. hell, it probably already happened. makes me mad just thinking about it

>>5260283
I wish there was some kind of banner I could click to kill a starving African orphan

>>5260290
>implying that the hipster deceiving all the idiots and poseurs into 'seeing' this exhibition wouldn't be a marketing genius
>implying marketing isn't a form of art, even if a a shit one

>>5260297
i think it would be fun if slave trade was still a thing
imagine, nowaydays you could do it all over the internet
invest a dollar into a starving african orphan. of course most of them would die, but if one of them gets large enough to play basketball or some shit one day you get all the dosh
it would be like stocks but way more fun

>>5260311

>>5260321
how is that bait u moron

if i was king i would totally legalize arenas
look how great the romans had it and imagine what we could do with modern technology, every gladiator could wear a gopro

>>5260333
Must...resist...urge

>>5260301
>marketing
>a form of art

>>5260333
trips of truth

and unlike romans we have full-HD slow-mos from every angle

>>5260349
Cool argument.

>>5259539
>tfw you realize that art today is just a clusterfuck of over - interpreted skillless bullshit.

>pic releated is real skill

>b b - but anon, art is not about "muh skillz"
fuck off

>>5260600

>>5259681
PROJECTING
R
O
J
E
C
T
I
N
G

>>5260248
>tfw somewhere millions of depressed frogs are struggling to write essays

>>5259668
>being this much of a shill of the art market to fetishize the art object this much

>All these plens judging abstract expressionism with "logic" and "technique"

I don't even like it, too "retinian" for my taste, but really, the thing with these paintings is that they're supposed to express whatever the painter was feeling in it's process.

>>5259580
One of the main problems with a piece like this lays in it's dependence of a textual interpretation that constrains it's meaning. I don't really oppose texts that accompany a work, but their goal shouldn't be to completely explain the work. They should, at best, explain the intention of the author, the spectator should, then, follow this intention with his own experiences and signifiers.

>>5260100
idiot

Art is whatever you can get away with.

>>5260267
> Implying middle class wastefulness can be criticized without making them angry as hell

>>5259580

The title is almost arbitrarily joined to the sculpture. The only clear connection is the six in the title, the six in the dimension. It's also tenuously connected through its boxy-ness to coffins, to being "six feet under," though coffins are rectangles or irregular shapes, and this is a perfect square. Its color has nothing to do with the title, the perfection of its geometrical shape. The dice connection is also pretty tenuous, as there's no enumeration of the sides. I guess that's "meaning...generated through the interplay of word and object" but most of the claimed meaning is pretty bullshit. It's also trivial. Oh look, a single visual metaphor (this box is like a coffin!) without saying anything else. It has less intellectual and emotional content than a post on reddit that says "When x happens" that links to a gif of an animal.

I guess it is "rational" in the sense that it's perfectly square, but nature produces perfect squares. The fact that it's metal makes it more suggestive of manufacturing more than that, and that takes it away from art to the utilitarian, making it the same old "NEW CONTEXT SO PROFOUND"

It didn't "transform" sculpture at all. It's a less interesting rehash of Duchamp's "found object," re-titled fountain. At least that visual metaphor was stronger (linked by water, use for basic functions, etc) and funny, and actually groundbreaking.

>>5260600
it's not

>>5260605

>art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKFZOIv5sS0

>>5260924
>babby's first seascape

>>5259539
>Anonymous frogman from /r9k/ come to depress us, yet again.
>>5259674
Yes they do
It's just that they can't be the firsts to have done it.
>>5260600
>>5260605
Same thing. This can be done again, it's just that no one will pay the skilled artists that can do it to do it.

>>5260600
art is a contest to see who can say the most intelligent thing about the simplest piece.

you could put all art on a graph with axis labelled simplicity and respectability

>>5259539
>tfw you realize life is more pretentious than art

>>5260261
This is actually pretty shit though, he clearly didn't have a very good grasp on perspective.

Art is dead.

>>5260940
hahaha
that jesus was perfect

Art itself is not pretentious, but some artists -- or some groups of artists -- tend to behave in a pretentious manner.

>>5260959
What? Art is 100% subjectivity, including the meaning, to argue this point only proves it further.

>tfw I was at the art museum yesterday and I actually enjoyed the modern art section

>>5259544
Literally, every famous and talented artist was a self centered, egotistical, loathing, cry baby, mentally disturbed, genius.

>>5260600
>art today

example?

>>5259539
When did you realise this? Was it while reading a book on art? While you were applying your shitty interpretations to art?

>>5263618
no, not until like 200 years ago

>>5261948
are you joking?

>>5263674
>im not wrong
>random date
>im not wrong
>im not wrong
>im not wrong

>>5263682
it was really only during the romantic period that the idea of the artist as a tortured genius really became a thing

like how is vermeer anything like you said, for example?

>>5263696
>im not wrong
>one random obscure example
>im not wrong
>im not wrong
>im not wrong

>>5263696
no, that was just when the observation that that is usually the case became emphasized more

>>5259571

>an artists purpose for making art is good or bad depending on how well they explain it to me

how do you justify this pedantry

what a clueless thread.

fucking normals.

Today in NZ:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/10367123/NZ-contemporary-art-award-winner-A-shelf

>>5259662
hey good answer.

>>5259646
rothko absolutely rules though

Pic related is far more pretentious than anything listed in this thread

>>5264371

>>5259539
Elitism isn't always pretentiousness. Learn what pretentiousness is.

>>5259646
>>5259669
>>5265063
That shit is fucking garbage and you should be ashamed for even thinking of defending it.

I mean, just look at it. What's wrong with you? How can you defend or like that? Are you braindead?

>>5265103
rothko absolutely rules and is heavily good

>>5265103
It moves me, what else is there to say? If you think it has anything to do with intelligence or that it needs defending or explaining I just feel sorry for you. There's no need to be this frustrated

>>5265146
>>5265128
these two are significantly better than the one that was originally posted to be fair

>>5259665
who are 'they', faggot?
Besides, the proportions suck

>ITT: People talking out of their asses

>>5265248
>not talking out of your arse

How pretentious.

>>5263583
>Anselm Kiefer
mah nigga

>>5265146
>red line on black ground
>it moves me

how deep are you moved, anon?

>>5265262
Profoundly

>>5265262
>lel this guy is capable of emotions
>2014
>being moved by a simple image
>wot a pleb amirite?
>Supreme gentlemens like me do not allow foolish emotions to get the better of our euphoric logical intelligence

Art has become too degenerate due to the abstract style, in terms of paintings and sculptors anyway. The art on Magic the Gathering cards is more artistic than any weird and abstract high school-level "art".

It's alright, dude.
All this cabal-defined art, and the plethora of art scenes is just a sign of the freedom (intellectual and artistic) we enjoy, just like it was in the 50s.

Do whaterr you want and then make up a buncha crap and talk with people and socialize and maybe sell a few or do album covers. It's aight.

I like my life.

>>5265743
Well that's just the neo-bourgeois reactionary STEM class thinks of it. That fields of art satisfies their demands for representational figurative naturalism.

To the modern art aristocracy, though. "Abstract" art as you put it provides decadence and conspicuous consumption.

I think anime is the most pleasant compromise 'tween the too. it has dat expressionistic quality and a sweet kitsch naivete that lends itself naturally to the disenfranchised and those bewildered with life. It's pure cliche.

>>5265743
It was only to be expected with the splintering and deconstruction of western culture. Great works of art need a coherent cultural backdrop to form. they are complex and delicate arrangements of elements that depend on many people fostering the same kind of artistic environment, which allows gifted individuals to bring these elements together, since they've been nurtured in them their whole life and create works of exceptional depth.

Our art represents our culture, which being fundamentally broken, so is the art. There are of course pockets of culture that give rise to decent art but nothing like the masterpieces of the old world.

>>5265819
>I think anime is the most pleasant compromise 'tween the too.
>anime
>'tween

I want the degenerates to go back to /a/.

>>5260349

>>5259539

Art is and always has been in tension between creatives and the poseurs. Both groups know who, and what, belongs to whom.

Just ignore literary critics and you'll be fine. Don't read essays, read novels. Don't talk to critics, talk to writers.

It is. Art died with the invention of photography and video. There is no need to paint for hours to depict a beautiful scene when you can snap a photo of it in less than a second. No need to depict a fantastic landscape when CGI artists can create that landscape in 3D before you can finish one painting.

Now art is the territory of pretentious fags and rich people with too much money to blow.

>>5265862
>degenerates

I would say I'd want the /pol/ people to go back to /pol/. But I want them to stay right 'ere with their bright slogans,free young minds, supple young pricks coursing with hot cum. They bring youth and vitality at the cost of salacious impudence. They have not been gelded by life yet, like academics.

>>5265262
painfully

>>5267564
you're a pretentious guy

>>5265915
>art has to be realistic

>>5265071
fuck off tard the butterfly effect was fun as fuck

>>5265128
>>5265146


Yeah, this is garbage

I worked on this piece for about....seven years.

I call it multiculturalism or: how the white race dissolved

the art world is a heap of stinky stinky poo poo but art itself is gr8

>>5259646
>>5259649
tbh i love uberpopular art like this bc i love trying to figure out how it was able to resonate w so many ppl
i think ppl easily overlook the significance of the ability of popular art to leave an impression on so many ppl
ppl bash on radio pop songs but theres something special in a song that makes it sound good to millions of ppl
theres something in kinkades art (though admittedly in his case it may be more his business acumen) that resonated with millions of common americans for a decade
theres something in rothkos paintings that made art snobs and common ppl alike stand back and say, "ah,"
i think its easy to ignore that such popular pieces have gr8 value if only bc theyre so popular
its so easy to gravitate towards more obscure works bc it seems we would seem more knowledgeable and discerning in taste to be able to see the diamond in a heap of trashed glass
but a diamond is a diamon whether in the trash or on display isnt it

>>5260261
>those shingles
>that shit perspective
the only thing going for adolfs art was accuracy and cold objectivity and he was lacking in that

>>5260290
that would be a fun exhibition if only for the arguments it would spark

>>5264361
>vermeer
>obscure
did u sleep thru high school

>>5260100
>>5259803
>>5259787

Y'all need to check out Van Gogh's paintings in person. Digital representations really don't do them justice.

The paint's so goddamn thick it's no wonder he was poor. He could have used half as much and used the rest of the money to buy food.

>>5260278
Why is the baby circumcised?

>>5260959
>art is a contest to see who can say the most intelligent thing about the simplest piece.
That's art as understood by dumbfuck rich people who actually have no natural inclination for art.

>>5265819
Anime is shit though.

>>5267945
*angel uncircumcised

I'm an idiot

>>5267945
its not
look closely at the baby peen

>I don't know about art but I know what I like!!

Every fucking time. Stick to soap operas you plens

>>5259668
I agree with this, I gained a newfound appreciation for Van Gogh after actually visiting the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam. However that particular painting is simple enough to critique adequately over the web. I do think it's nicer than that awful house though

>>5267965
>look closely at the baby peen

This is not a sentence I expected to read on /lit/.

>>5268961
What's the matter? Babby peen makes you bothered?

>>5268970
Hot and bothered.

>>5267990
This. Fucking philistines everywhere

>>5268972
What if I don't like anything?

>>5259776
left picture title??????

>>5259787

Might have something to do with it being a JPEG rather than the original.

>>5267951
Yeah, absolutely, but it makes sad people happy because it reflects their worldview nicely, so it's still worth studying.

We all know that tribal african masks are shit, but they're still bizarre and interesting because they cultivate curiosity rather than some lost inborn appreciation for proper proportions all the weirdos at the ARC think humans have.

Take Garfield for example, Garfield is a better document of life in the 20th century than Maus.