/lit/ - Literature

ancient greek philsophy

ugh. i have a friend [from when i was hanging out with heroin addicts] who is obsessed with occultism. i keep trying to convince him that it's empty and fruitless, but I think heroin makes him think that he's connecting with some higher power

>>5260962
One I need personally is greek literature. I keep seeing it broadly referred to on /lit/ but hardly anyone actually details how to get into "da greeks".

Either
Books on military (Treatsies, generals, etc)
Or
Latin essentials

>>5260984
yeah, military strategy. I've read book of five rings, things in that vein, more general tactics, more specific combat

>>5260975
>>5260975
This. We really need one for the Greeks that we can post in all those threads.

>>5260984
Really like the idea of a military non-fiction one too.

Just got a book on Panzers that's pretty naet

In general we really need more non-fiction ones.

>>5260984
A few on military:
Treatsies
>Art of War - Sun Tzu
>On Roman Military Matters - Vegetius
>Rommel's works
>5 Rings - Musashi

>>5260962
Da Greeeeks

>>5261026
>Art of war / The Prince Niccolò Machiavelli
>Mao's guerrilla warfare

Before I make the list, I'm going to offer suggestions on the path to take. If anyone wants to input their opinion, that would be greatly appreciated and would help with finalizing a guide to the subject.

>>5260970
I'd start with Oxford World's "The First Philosophers: The Presocratics and Sophists"which provides a great introduction to understanding what the philosopher's achieved and why understanding the Presocratic philosophers is essential to understanding all of philosophy. Then, I would probably pick up the Penguin Classic's "Early Greek Philosophy" which is less of an introduction to study from and more of a guide used for references to later Greek philosophers who spoke of the Presocratics.

After this, go onwards to Plato's dialogues about Socrates. DO NOT start with "The Republic". Instead, begin with one of Plato's earlier dialogues. Get "Plato: Complete Works" edited by John M. Cooper. If you prefer to split up the books, get "The Last Days of Socrates" from the Penguin Classics collection first, then get "The Republic" from the Penguin Classics as well, and read them in that order. "The Republic" can be difficult for some, especially for those who aren't totally knowledgeable of Socrates beforehand, and even then, an analysis guide is usually recommended, if not required. I don't know one myself, but "The Blackwell Guide to Plato's Republic" seems to do the trick.

Following that, you typically learn about Aristotle. I'm obviously a bit biased with Penguin Classics since those are what I read, but really, translations really only affect poetry and fiction prose in my opinion, not non-fiction or essays like these unless they really go to great liberties to change things around. Anyway, I said that, because I recommend the penguin classics version of Aristotle's "The Metaphyiscs", and following that, the penguin classics version of his "The Nicomachean Ethics". Both should have a Blackwell guide as well, but I don't feel like its as required as it is for the Republic.

Hopefully I'm not forgetting another important name after Aristotle, but from here on out, you pretty much just start to learn about the schools of Ancient Greek philosophy. My favorite school to have learned about was the cynics. I used penguin's "The Cynic Philosophers: From Diogenes to Julian".

Feel free to add on or change what I've said as I focus on the other requests.

>>5261026
I hope you're not OP.

>>5260962
Philosophy in general

>>5261053
You were planning to make image guides, right?

>>5261053
Apparently Oxford Editions of Aristotle are the best in terms of translation

>>5260962
>>5260975
>>5261036
>>5261002

I'm with these guys. I'm particularly intetrestednin Comedies.

>>5261059
We have charts for a very large range of philosophy. From Ancient Greeks to Pomo, all created for us by a philosophy professor who used to come here.

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Non-fiction#Philosophy

you guys should probably look at the wiki before asking things of OP that have already been done

>>5261053
>start with Oxford world's The First Philosophers: The Presocratics and Sophists

I actually did this
but in my defence I had to for my Ancient Philosophy class I did too many years ago

>>5260962
OP, can you do post-modernism for me?

>>5261092
This has also been done twice.

Are you looking for fiction or philosophy?

>>5260962
Whatcha reading OP?

>>5261099
And fiction.

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Literature_by_type#Postmodernist

>>5261099
>mfw The Postmodern Condition is the first on the list
>>5261085

>>5261099
Oh God. This list is fucking horrendous. Where the fuck is Jameson?

>>5261128
It's very far from "horrendous."

I didn't make it. The professor who did left a long time ago.

>>5261128
As a critic of postmodernism, he is suitably absent.

>>5261128
He's on the next one.

>>5260962
Is Jung really occult?

>>5261134
>a "professor" made that list

Bahahahaha.

>Lyotard
>no Jameson
>no Harvey
>no Baudrillard
>no Deleuze
>no Agamben

>>5261171
You should probably look at the others. It's part of a series.

>>5261154
Postmodernism should be critiqued, not celebrated. Cultural capitalist swine.

>>5261171
All of those are covered, especially in the various philosophy packs that were uploaded.

>>/lit/thread/S813914#p813938

Hey OP, could you please do the Middle East, Islam and Christian Theology.

>>5261181
Marxist rejection of postmodernism is not total.

>>5261247
Pardon me, *'is not unanimous' makes more sense.

>>5260975
You may want to start with a general mythology book. My favorite one is Edith Hamilton's "Mythology". However, that is a general mythology book.

Homer's Iliad
Homer's Odyssey

Personal favorite for the above two are the ones translated by Fitzgerald, but they do not come with an integrated study guide, so maybe pick up a separate study guide as well. I really don't think its that necessary. Ancient Greek literature is surprisingly easy to understand.

I don't know if I should include philosophy into this list because its not really fiction, but I feel like having good knowledge of Greek philosophers would help you understand some of the following plays better, or maybe, appreciate them more, despite the philosophers coming after most of these.

I'm going to refer back to this post >>5261053 . Do everything UP TO the end of the second paragraph in which I discuss the Republic.

Additionally, I definitely recommend a guide to Greek tragedies and Greek comedies. I completely forgot which book it was I used, but it was a book consisting of essays on these two 'genres'. Anyone know a good book on essays from these things?

The Oedipus Plays of Sophocles
Sophocles' Electra
Euripides' Electa and Other Plays
Herodotus' Histories
Aeschylus' Oresteia
Hesiod's Work and Days
Hesiod's Theogony
Menander's Plays and Fragments

You may want to start off with a history of the Trojan war to understand the Iliad. The Iliad begins in the tenth and final year of the war.

>>5260984
I'll try to do Latin essentials really quickly

If you want to actually learn how to speak Latin, I'd recommend the Cambridge Latin Course collection. Because of how similar words are in Latin to English, its pretty easy to accomplish but its not really essential to grasping Roman culture. This course seems to give a good introduction into Roman culture as well as teach you the language, which is nice.

If you want the history of Rome, Start with the monumental "Ab Urbe Condita Libri" by Titus Livy. Penguins has it split into these books:

Livy's The Early History of Rome, Books I-V
Livy's Rome and Italy: Books VI-X of the History of Rome from its Foundation
Livy's The War with Hannibal: The History of Rome from Its Foundation, Books XXI-XXX

(for some reason I'm having difficulty looking for books XI - XX, I'm pretty positive those books are not among those which are lost)

For a bit more reading on the history of Rome, there's also:

Polybius' The Rise of the Roman Empire
Rome and Jerusalem: The Clash of Ancient Civilizations

For plays. there's:

Virgil's Aeneid
Ovid's Metamorphosis
Plautus' The Pot of Gold and Other Plays
Seneca's Four tragedies and Octavia
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

Literature which came far later but makes use of many of these Latin essentials

The Divine Comedy (to be read after Virgil's Aeneid)
I, Claudius (to be read after Livy's Rome and Italy)
Ben-Hur (to be read after Rome and Jerusalem)

>>5261251
Once again. Would be greatly appreciated if people offer their own recommendations before I start to work on some of these guides.

>>5261194
Similar to this - can you do me a guide for theodicy?

>>5261254
Yes, please do this.

>>5261251
>You may want to start with a general mythology book. My favorite one is Edith Hamilton's "Mythology". However, that is a general mythology book.
Realized how stupid that sounded.

I meant to say "you may want a general GREEK mythology book".

We need a horror/creepy list, both fiction and non-fiction.

>>5260984
>Military

You may want to start with a 'general' introduction into war. Read "On War" by General Carl von Clausewitz.

If you want a historical account of a war, "History of the Peloponnesian War" is great. And I would also like to add that after Herodotus in this post >>5261251 as well.

Continuing from "On War", there's two other more general political books you could consider reading "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, "De Re Militari" by Vegetius, and "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli. They deal with military thought, how to rule, and how to conquer your opponents. Some of the lessons taught in both of these stories can be 'universified', as in, you can apply them to other things besides war and government.

For books on aerial or naval combat, check out "The Command of the Air" and "The Influence of Sea Power Upon History". I'd also look into a biography on William Halsey for more on naval combat. I think the biography "Bull Halsley" by E. B. Potter would do.

>>5261026
I wouldn't really consider the 5 Rings as being part of this category, since that mainly focuses on fighting styles, not war tactics.

>>5261052
Is "On Guerrilla Warfare" actually good and/or useful? For another recommendation on guerrilla warfare, maybe check out the biography "Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life".

>>5261293
>creepy non-fiction
Here are links to a bunch of creepy real-life occurences to keep you satisfied. I have to go right now, but I'll try to do your suggestion when I come back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Db_cooper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cure_for_Insomnia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#.22Kenneth.2C_what_is_the_frequency.3F.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_broadcast_signal_intrusion_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_William_Fisher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ourang_Medan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Television_broadcast_interruption
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monster_with_21_Faces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_%28murder_victim%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_in_the_Box_%28Philadelphia%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown_conspiracy_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Likens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-Landrum_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Miyazaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaoru_Kobayashi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_himmler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_Disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Colleen_Stan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_Accident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Maura_Murray
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_Knorr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_%28feral_child%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_child_murders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagasaki_Serial_Murder_Incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty_murder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_devil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Paisnel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Knight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

>>5261347
I-I-I'll miss you.

fgt

bump, almost done with Greek chart

>>5261105
Man in the High Castle isn't really difficult.

>>5261251
>>5261053
What about Sappho?

Do we agree on this, or is there something else I should add that I left out?

Do we agree with this chart? Anything I should add?

>>5261002
I have that saved, maybe some people are interested in this ?

I started reading The Republic, and nothing seems too difficult to understand. The work standing alone seems fine. Why do I need to read the Presocratics and earlier works of Plato first (I'll read them at a later date anyhow)

>>5261194
Admittedly not the best at this subject, but at least it would force me to research a new topic.

OP....please do some hardboiled detective stuff...all I know of are chandler and hammett.

>>5262072
Will do

Time Travel

The history and development of prehospital care and its effect on contemporary society.

>>5260974
In High School I had a Spanish teacher that was a follower of Eliphas Levi. He was a fan of Asimov and believed in homeopathy, but he was certainly one of the most decent and jovial human beings I've ever met. Every crack I made at him for being the "Dark Lord" he accepted with grace.

How about a non-western guide.

I'de like some south (central?) american lit guide
I've read RAPHAEL KORN-ADLER, coelho, Garcia marques.

an african guide, I've only read Amos Tutuola's The Palm-Wine Drinkard; great stuff!

middle eastern/arab guide - Omar Khayam, amin maloufe.

maybe south eastern literature? Not necessarily classic, but modern stuff too!

Please excuse my butchering of author's names, I'm in a hurry and dont have time to check the spelling.

thanks Anon!

Japanese folklore/mythology

OP, I'm looking towards books that could teach me:
how to write
how to become a writer
interesting works by prose style
insteresting works by plot architecture
how to understand writing styles

op i would enjoy a decadents/romanticism chart. poetry and/or prose

bump for interest

>>5261769
wouldn't it be better to start with Hesiod's Theogony?

>>5262960
>coelho
Pls. He's just a self-help writer who weaves plot into his books.

>>5263650
Theogony was written after the Odyssey and the Theban plays, so I thought I would stay consistent with the chronological flow of the fiction / poem section of the chart. I know Theogony is often viewed as a soucebook for Greek myths, but its more than just that. It really has more in line with epic poetry than a guide to Greek mythology.

I did, however, mess up the flow chart. People should read the Early Greek philosophers AFTER they've read the Theogony. Theogony was one of the earliest known texts to try and make a cosmogony of the universe and this idea served as inspiration for many of the early philosophers. The philosophers liked the idea of a cosmogony but wanted to avoid using common Greek myths to explain it.

Also, the Histories makes some references to the early philosophers, so I'm trying to determine if it would be good for that to be after the philosophy section, or if its good where it is. These are typical problems you get with flow charts, but its really not that big of a deal either way.

Is there a chart for Christian literature? Mainly looking for fiction but anything will do.

>>5261769
>no posthomerica

>>5263694
>Theogony was written after the Odyssey and the Theban plays
What? Sophocles? He was wayy after Homer and Hesiod. Near contemporaries.

>Scholars believe [The Odyssey] was composed near the end of the 8th century BC
>[The Theogony was] composed circa 700 B.C.

Then there's the "Homeric Hymns" of unknown authorship and likely constructed and reconstructed going back to the first settlers of the region

>>5265595
re: Theban plays he was probably referring to the fact that the Oedipus story significantly predates Sophocles and existed as an oral tradition similar to the ones Homer and Hesiod worked from.

just edit the fucking sticky with TEXT

OP are you still there
captcha: assmore some

>>5261347
These are fun

>>5262072
>>5262249
But we already have that, mildly. It's under mystery/crime in the genre fiction section on the wiki.

>>5263300
Checking out the Non-fiction section for Writing and Books About Books.

>>5261347

What the hell is Himmler doing in there?

>>5261347
you are my idol

>>5266650
le holocost was super spooky evil xD

chineese literature

>>5260962
I would like to learn more on:
Multiculturalism/Mass Immigration
Anti-semitism

>>5266654
Nice

>>5266650
Why? He is just copy and pasting from the >>>/x/ sticky.

>>5266828
Oh wow. Never been to /x/ but should have assumed they would have something like this.

>>5266853
A lot of the book links are dead now. But, most of the other content is live. Go check it out.

Keeping this topic alive. Will do a chart early tomorrow and fix the Greek chart.

>>5260984
Tell me what you think of this draft for books on military. How should I split up the chart? By topic (tactics, history, biography) or by the period of history?

>>5269679
Would like people's opinions on this list. Any other military non-fiction to add?

>>5271551
Some ideas from my read/to-read list, mostly nuclear war and history of war:

Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety

On Thermonuclear War

Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Since World War II

Cyber War Will Not Take Place

The Bombing War: Europe 1939-1945

On Western Terrorism: From Hiroshima to Drone Warfare

The Shadow World: Inside the Global Arms Trade

The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War

A proper guide for books on economics would be amazing

lol gurdjieff, what a load of shit, if you're seriously considering any of this crapola you need to reevaluate your life before you make a bigger fool of yourself than already

>>5260984
>>5261026
>>5261052
>>5261337
>>5269679
>>5271637
>no strategikon

Am I the only living person who has read that book?

Everything you need to know from Freud to understand Jacques Lacan.

>>5261347
The kidnapping of Coleen Stan is the most interesting on there to me.

>Stan states that her faith in God, and belief that someday she would be free, helped her survive,[12] and that her greatest fear was not of Cameron but of "The Company" which she said Cameron reinforced on a daily basis.[13] To avoid painful punishments, she said she tried to be a good slave[14] and that due to this she was allowed out to jog, work in the yard, and care for the Hooker children alone in the mobile home. Even with an open door, neighbors, and a telephone, Stan made no attempt to escape; she said that her fear of "The Company" kept her from seeking help.[15]

Stan was even allowed to visit her family by herself in 1981.[9] While at home, she did not reveal the truth about her situation and again stated that this was because of her fear of "The Company" and what they would do to her and her family.[9] Her family thought she must have become involved in a cult because of her homemade clothes, lack of money, and absence of communications over the years. Her family did not want to pressure her fearing she would go away forever.

>>5272878

And another anon asking for a guide on Lacan's seminars.

William Blake. Was reccommended "Fearful Symmetry".

I'm planning on reading my first philosophy book,
so not too mindfucking please.

Also, if you're certain there's a Dutch translation of it, that might be helpfull.

keeping this bad boy alive

how to attract women