/lit/ - Literature

there's already a nihilism thread you retard. use the catalogue

You can be nihilistic and moral at the same time you flaming faggot

Like it matters.

>>5235913
More or less. Some would haggle with the wording.

Why the Schoppy-feel? He didn't seem very compassionate

>>5235918
This is a compassion thread, lad.

>>5235919
Yes.

>>5235922
Learn to feel.

>>5235913
>compassion is enough to justify morality
but not strong enough to legislate it.

>>5235927
once again women proving they know nothing.


schoppy had the biggest heart of all

Yes, OP, I have.

>>5235929
>Learn to feel.
I have. I felt mirthful, so I made a joke.

Sounds like you have a tenebrous understanding of Schopenhauer's ethics, viz. you just looked at his wikipedia article.

>>5235927
Bitch don't trip, also don't pretend like you know anything about philosophy.

>>5235927
Schopenhauer was the champion of compassion, to the point that he was one of the first philosophers making a case for animal rights and was even considerate regarding homosexuals, something that hadn't been encountered since the ancients.

His ethical ideal was basically a saint without the religious element. Realising the suffering inherent to life and the human condition especially, he pleaded for the recognition of that suffering in each others as something that we share, and compassion as a result of that.

>>5235913
So since the pic is vaguely related, what is a good entry level Schopenhauer book?

>>5235939
I'm happy for you and us, m8.

>>5235948
Apologies for assuming you were trying to be a cunt.

>>5235955
Elaborate.

>>5235967
The Wisdom of Life and Counsels and Maxims

>>5235935
Being ignorant of something isn't the same as being stupid and incapable of knowing or learning. Once again, men --etc.

"Biggest heart of all". How do you explain the stories I've heard about his misogyny? I heard he held more compassion for his dogs than any person.

>>5235967
The World as Will for his philosophical system.
Parerga und Paralipomena for his essays, and a brief explication on the World as Will


>>5235978
No

>>5235983
how do i mute this dyke?

>>5235983
Butterface, you never fail to demonstrate the T truth-value of Schopenhauer's On Women essay.

>>5235983
>>5235986
Thanks for the recommendations.

I hadn't yet, until I read this thread.

Thanks OP.

>>5235991
Perfectly articulated.

>>5235983
If you don't know it don't act like you do, then the mean men will go away and you can go back to your pleb tier novels.

>>5235966
what the fuck is the human condition. it's such a non-term. it's just a fancy emo way of talking about everyday life.

i agree with everything else, just... that term really grinds my gears

>>5235983
Why don't you read his work rather than rely on hearsay?

"I have not yet spoken my last word about women. I believe that if a woman succeeds in withdrawing from the mass, or rather raising herself above the mass, she grows ceaselessly and more than a man."
- Schopenhauer

>>5236020
The condition of being human, things we all have in common. It wasn't emotion until people started using it as a pejorative.

Compassion is yet another false invented value to justify the greater false invented value of morality. Emotional reactionism is whimsical and unsatisfactory to justify something as defining as a core belief.

>>5235966

Compassion at large is an attribute of slave morality.

>>5235983
reducing every philosopher in history and their capacity for compassion to wether or not they were feminists is definitely ignorant, especially considering the time he lived in.

i don't like the blatant mysoginy either but cut the man some slack, and maybe fucking appreciate his brains. read one of his books or at least the wikipedia article. you've been here for a while, haven't you. jeez

>>5236020
I just mean "existence as a human being", but I see where you're coming from regarding the use of the term.

>>5236039
Nietzsche was pro-compassion but anti-pity he believed morality should exist.

>>5236039
Confirmed for not having read Nietzsche.

>>5236039
See, Nietzsche, this is why some people think you're legitimately evil.

>>5235964
Hardly.

>>5235966
Enlightening. Thank you. Maybe I've been a victim of anonymous pranksters on this subject(?)

>>5235989
By ignoring. Fool.

>>5236000
Perfectly ignorant

>>5236012
I haven't.

>>5236029
Time

>>5236044
I don't do this.

>>5236039
Actually read a book by Nietzsche before you comment on him please.

>>5235986
He said entry level bruh

>>5236054
Nietzsche was pro morality

>>5236050
Depends on what you call morality. He was against the concept of "evil" and there is no "should" and "shouldn't" for him.

>>5235967

Penguin Classics edition of his Essays and Aphorisms. I'm reading it right now.

>implying I have to justify morality

>>5236082
He believed that was for the individual to decide, but he personally was pro morality

>>5236066
Schopenhauer does not have any "entry" level works, bruh.

>>5236082
He would despise the absence of values.

>>5236097
You mean he personally believed in the existence of evil? I think he believed (non-personally at least) in bad/weak/reactionary forces without any concept of evil.

>>5236121
Yes, of course. But morals =/= values.

>>5236134
Morals in essence are values. You have to destroy the values that you are taught in order to create your own values, your own moral.

>>5236155
morals*

>>5236155
The way I see morals is that there is something that tells you should or shouldn't do this or that in the absolute sense. That something being a monotheistic God for example.

>>5235913
I will overcome nihilism by creating my own values thank you very much

>>5236191

Good luck, buddy hahahahahaa

>>5236186
Then yes, he would probably be against of what you conceive morals to be.

>>5236061
yes you do

>>5235913
>implying compassion exists
>implying that, if compassion were to ever be found, it is but a passing act that immediately gets swept up in the rip tide of brutality and suffering

>>5236204
Here's my question though:
You think "this shouldn't be so" about something. Would you ever call that something "evil"? Or would you call it just "bad" or "low". And where do you see the difference here?

>>5236221
Have you never felt compassion before bruv?
I'm sorry. Compassion's pretty sweet, it's one of the cooler emotions out there.
I guess anger and cynicism could be pretty fun too though, even if they do statistically lead to shorter lifespans

>>5236211
I do not reduce everything down to this. I was unspecific in my first posts question.

>i don't like the blatant mysoginy either
But here you admit to what others have denied.
Well, I cut the elders in their times plenty of slack. Asking questions are supposed to clear up ignorance. No I haven't and probably wont be reading much of his. You can blame all your bad salesmanship for this.

>>5236253
Cynicism is just the point where the pain of compassion becomes to great.

>>5236301
You don't read much period

>>5236061
>Enlightening. Thank you. Maybe I've been a victim of anonymous pranksters on this subject(?)
There are always stereotypes. Le Stirner is le selfish, Nietzsche was a social darwinist, Schoppy hated such and such and such.

Of course these simplifications don't exist without reason, but they're still misguided.

Schopenhauer talked shit about women, but he talked shit about women in a context of talking shit about everyone. For example, he did consider women to be frivolous in their interests for the most, but he also considered them more compassionate then men.

>>5236366
>Nietzsche was a social darwinist
To be fair, both the Nazis and the U.S. government shouted this at the top of their lungs to push their own agenda

>>5236039
>Compassion at large
>recently escaped from nirvana
>should be considered six armed and dangerous to temporality

>>5236351
For you.

>>5236242
You have got a point there. Evil it's more connected to an ideal/god

schopenhauer pushed a lady down a flight of stairs.

kierkegaard was obviously right about him: he wasnt a good buddhist.

in my view, compassion is due to those who are willing to give it. Some random piece of shit who speaks to others with disrespect for no reason or a trifling reason or whatever is, as far as im concerned, a borderline nonentity. This is also why im not one of those marxists who romanticises the poor. Spend some time in a small town and tell me if you think the common person, with their tattoos, alcohol, groupthink, and comcast tv are noble and deserve compassion

>>5236448
>schopenhauer pushed a lady down a flight of stairs.
>kierkegaard was obviously right about him: he wasnt a good buddhist.
My sides...
I've heard the story before btw, she wasn't a very nice neighbor either.

>>5236448
>Spend some time in a small town and tell me if you think the common person, with their tattoos, alcohol, groupthink, and comcast tv are noble and deserve compassion
Have you read Orwell's The Road to Wigan Pier? Friend said it talks about shitty people living in shitty conditions or something like that.

>>5236473
I'll put a pdf on my kindle soon. I want to read such were the days too

>>5236489
I meant the joys

>>5236448
Well, marxism (and also compassion towards bad people) is rooted in social psychology.
The idea is that the reason people who are bad lead the lives they do is because of how they're raised, and subsequently raise their kids to be shitty, and it just keeps going and going.
The idea behind compassion towards the poor (and bad people in general) is that all people have the potential to be good (or at least not be shit) if they are shown the way properly.
There's also the idea that just treating poor shitty people as "non-entities" only serves to isolate their culture further, polarizing them to become even shittier, and creating a stigma in their culture against those who lead "good" lives by society at large.
I did some freelance missionary work in my early 20's, and helped people in heroine dens. All of them were theives, most of them were moral nihilists, all of them had some sort of emotional issue, and ALL of them had no care for the people they mugged or stole from because they reasoned that those people did not care for them. Compassion goes a long way dude. Some people are really difficult, almost impossible, to reach, and there are probably some lost causes, people who cannot be assimilated into normal, or at the very least "good," lives, but just complaining about hoodlums and demanding they be locked up just exacerbates the problems

>>5236503
I have my limits.

youve got people where there is some light at the end of the tunnel, something sort of worthwhile about them. and then youve got low grade humanity that will live in a cluster b cycle of mental hell forever, and so it walks the earth just inflicting more misery onto others just to get by. i say let em kill themselves, i dont have it in me to care. if i cared, most of them would use that as leverage to use me. i am one hundred percent serious here, i judge ignorant people and bums by how polite they seem to be. They might just be pretending to be "humble" to get something from me even then. Might. I dont think usually. But low grade people need to know that theyre low grade and i dont care if they die

>>5236366
You also gotta try to view others views, man, and understand them too. Like, schoppy says this in the context of viewing the negatives so we can avoid them. Thus he is right that women tend to do some dumb bitchy shit just like men can also do stupid shit. To just hate on one gender and act like the other is flawless is completely wrong and an offense rightfully worthy of castration.

>>5236574
Shop dog would never pretend men are perfect.

The argument for nihilism may have lots of merits, but it doesn't have any accomplishments.

I'd rather spend my pointless existence with acceptance of my peers and perceived success than be a waster fucking NEET, even if only for my own hedonistic motives.

>>5236327
>>5236564
I see.

>>5236327
And classical cynicism is the point where you debase yourself to their level in hopes of getting them to relate to you enough to see the error in their ways. Pure compassion

>>5236647
>And classical cynicism is the point where you debase yourself to their level in hopes of getting them to relate to you enough to see the error in their ways.

That doesn't sound like classical cynicism. Sounds like being a self righteous asshole.

>>5236659
>Sounds like being a self righteous asshole.
Mission directly from god, my good man. How else does one wake potential people from their sleep? By pretending to sleep differently was all I've ever come up with. Shouting it at them doesn't work.

>>5236586
can you not stand with your own feet, on land created with your own hands? pathetic.

>>5235913
> compassion
> in a system based on self-interest
how's that game theory for you?

>>5236421
Evil is causing harm for harms sake. You don't have to put ideals and god in to the mix to define evil. Here is a excellent talk about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLp7vWB0TeY

>>5236061
Maybe you should actually read books before forming opinions on them (?)

>>5236739
>Evil is causing harm for harms sake.
Look at it like psychologist and ask yourself why is someone causing harm for harm's sake. There's no evil, people are just weak.

>>5236768
The talk happens to be by a psychologist. Watch it you ignorant fucktard.

>>5236739
> you don't have to put ideals
then how did you arrive at a definition of evil? You know "evil" because you know "good", though these terms are not, as far as the human mind is concerned, absolute.

>>5235913
How does that 'overcome' nihilism? It's still just as nihilistic.

>>5236780
What? I meant psychologist in a Nietzschean sense of diagnosing society since this topic is very related to his philosophy.
My point is actually that there's no harm for harm's sake. Someone doing that is being destructive but there are some other forces behind it, mainly their dive into total nihilism and at the same time staying at a completely reactionary nature.

>>5235913
It is in my opinion that nihilism is not something to "overcome" since it seems that it is an innate trait to the nature of man simply by having consciousness in what seems to be, as far as humans can discern, a meaningless universe.
You can only add to this trait, which is essentially giving meaning to life, whatever that means to you. I, however, think that it's not in other people since it must come from within and not in something tangible since tangibility would imply expectations, limitations and its inevitable conclusion / death.

>>5236799
Oh, you are right. I just derped on the word ideals.

>>5236808
that IS PRECISELY WHAT THE TALK IS ABOUT ! Watch it, you will love it ! And you will love Peterson as well as he is definitely a "Nietzschean psychologist".

>>5236821
I think you're confusing meaning with purpose.
>it must come from within
Yes, but as Heidegger also said, we can't completely escape "the they" (or whatever the English translation of "Man" is), it is a part of us.

>>5236830
I just add that i am using capslock because i am excited and not because i am yelling angrily.

>>5236830
He has some good points scattered across the video, but otherwise... bleeeghh. His usage of the word "evil" still seems very resentful. And then he gets into a sort of a very dumb evolutionary psychology regarding gender and even hints at the concept of "friendzone". I thought he was joking at first. This is around 17:00. I will watch further though.

>>5236366
Thanks again.
Are you you-know-who?

>>5236748
I have not formed an opinion, I was discussing an aspect and a rumor, a rumor anonymous spread.

>>5236955
>And then he gets into a sort of a very dumb evolutionary psychology regarding gender and even hints at the concept of "friendzone".
What? I don't see the hinting of friendzone. He does indeed bring in evolution and gender but how is it dumb? You are not gonna say that gender is a social construct now?