/lit/ - Literature

>>5200281

>Abraham Lincoln read Shakespeare, James Franco reads philosophy. Which one are you?


Jesus read neither.

>>5200281

everything you said about philosophy can be said about literature's "intellectual merits", literature is just entertainment plus "some old shit's thoughts"

except that philosophy can be entertaining to some, in which case, your point is irrelevant

The only philosophy I read is published on bathroom stall walls.

>>5200281
>NOTHING said in a philosophy book can not be said better in a story.

If this is true, then philosophy at least has the worth of inspiration for stories.

>>5200281
>Its pretty clear that philosophy is worthless. NOTHING said in a philosophy book can not be said better in a story.

Most of the greatest writers were avid enthusiast of philosophy and often allegorized them in their work. Many often highly own their own genuis to philosophers. "When people asked him [Borges], which they often had, why he with his love of intricate structure had never attempted a systematic exposition of the world-view which underlay his writings, his reply was that he did not do it because it had already been done by Schopenhauer"
>This is why all the great religious teachings are based on parables, because people actually learn from stories and life and examples

Many philosophers exposed their ideas and philosophy through stories and novels, its part of the tradition though, like Nietzsche which referred to. There are somethings however that can some philosophic ideas are too complex or specific for a story.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/p/pod/dod-idx/what-abraham-lincoln-readan-evaluative-and-annotated-list.pdf?c=jala;idno=2629860.0028.204

Do a little research before you shitpost.

Its pretty clear that art is worthless. NOTHING said in a artistic book can not be said better in a philosophical work. This is why all the great life teachings are based on aphorisms, because people actually learn from great thoughts. Everything that is worth saying should be explicitly stated in the text of philosophy, and that has been seen over and over again. Literature is not philosophy, it art without the thought. It is literally some young fantasist's thoughts barfed out on paper, and has benefitted NO ONE in history. Great men do not looks for messages in art, they read philosophy that allows them to master themselves and the world around them. That's how you better yourself, you turn over a piece of philosophy in your mind over and over until you learn what it means to YOU. Art teaches only what SOMEONE ELSE hallucinated, and you either circlejerk over it because you are uneducated, or you don't and you lol at it (or you go on /lit/ and pretend there's meaning in art. Reading philo is self improvement, "WOW I get what Nietzsche was saying and other people don't".

Alexander the great read philosophy, Obama reads Toni Morrison . Which one are you?

>>5200320
>Many often highly owe* their own genuis to philosopher
>which you* referred to.

>>5200281

Um, the entire Western political system, and all its technology have their foundation, and continue to be in dialogue with philosophy.

As for the good traits of literature you state, such as, "put[ting] a part of [your]selves into the story, [to] take out something unique", I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. And vowing things into stories only fogs their message. Meanwhile, turning art over in your mind until you give it some personal significance, why that has any worth at all remains to be specified. Not to mention that your post in itself is a kind of philosophy. Basically, you're full of shit, man.

>>5200281

What exactly do you mean by philosophy?
>NOTHING said in a philosophy book can not be said better in a story
Philosophy can be expressed through stories, dialogues, movies, video games and even paintings and stories contain much philosophic inquiry which no different from a philosophy book.

>>5200281
Perspective is invaluable, philistine.

>>5200335
This post sounds much less troll-y than OP.

Am I crazy?

>>5200288
But he spoke in parables.
>>5200303
You totally missed the point where I explained that literature is art in that means different things to everyone who reads it, while philosophy is the opposite.
>>5200316
Sort of agree

Even the lowest literature is at least the result of creative effort. Someone produced Twilight for other people to experience where there was nothing before, and that is noteworthy. Philosophy is literally just some random dude's convoluted and unnecessary rambling justification for genocide/suicide/incest/staying in his room all day.

>>5200281
2/10 b8
try harder

>>5200366
>literature is art in that means different things to everyone who reads it, while philosophy is the opposite.

Hahahhaah. Philosophy means different things to everyone. There's a entire scholary tradition in just the mere interpretation of philosophic works. To some Nietzche was a gold standarf liberatarian who preached total freedom, to others he's a facist who's single handedly responsible for the Nazis. For some Schopenhauer was a grumpy old man who threw a lady down the stairs, to others, like Einstein, he was poet who wrote some of the most beautiful philosophy there is.

>>5200404
Right but just cus people don't understand what he meant doesn't make it art. People don't understand fucking ikea instructions that doesn't make them thought provoking.

Art is to be interpreted by the audience, that's why we don't even have to always listen to what the artist's explanation of their work is. Reading philosophy is simply being told exactly what to think.

>>5200281
I can't wait until summer is over.

>>5200438

>Reading philosophy is simply being told exactly what to think.

Sounds like the problem is with how you read philosophy.

>>5200281
That's a whole lot of angry justification for not having the tenacity to read challenging non-fiction. Enjoy your stories.

OP is completely wrong. It's fiction that should be banned because it's mostly frivolous soap opera.

>>5200281
Philosophy is worthless. So is art, music, literature and everything else. Human beings do not respond to reason, only violence and force, and the strongest will always dictate the "truth" to the weaker. Whether that is capitalism or God or democracy or fascism.

However, I am very lazy and dislike confrontation, so I will read philosophy and lounge around the house in my underwear. It is comfy.

>>5200281
>Abraham Lincoln read Shakespeare, James Franco reads philosophy. Which one are you?

I actually agree.

I was afraid you were going to go full science euphoria after the first sentence.

>>5200281
The best philosophy consists in ethical observations.

Great philosophers make an art of reflection upon human experience.

Your fanciful fiction is mostly composed to entertain and make money. Any philosophical content in the fiction is the philosophy of the author.

You're basically touting the belief that reading a plot and turning it over in your mind will somehow be a profound experience.

You're basically a pleb.

Sorry your ass hurts.

>>5200467
This, OP, so much this.

>>5200546
This, OP, so much this.

>>5200546
>implying there is something wrong with entertainment.

You lost your argument right there. Enjoy masturbating to your bookshelf of Kant.

>>5200579
Did I imply that there's anything wrong with entertainment?

There isn't.

All I'm saying is that plebs read exclusively fiction.

>>5200579
>Kant
>good fap material
>not Fichte

Lovin'
Every
Laff

>>5200585
>did I imply...

Actually, you totally did.

>>5200585
Also, quit using buzzwords like pleb in every post. It weakens your already precarious stance.

>>5200585
true, but I don't really think anyone who's really prolific as a reader could read fiction and only fiction for long

the fall of the republic and the early century of rome gets referenced so fucking much in western LIT I can't imagine any serious reader not looking into it at least once, and don't get me started on poetry

>>5200594
>actually, totally

Go read some nonfiction and brush up on the ol' prose, fuccboi.

>>5200598
Quit talking about my post like I'm composing an argument-- how I'm weakening this or that. I'm stating facts here. You are a plebeian if you only read fiction. You are an even bigger plebeian if you compose stupid arguments in defense of such a bumbling intellect.

"A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing." -Alexander Pope

>>5200438
each sentence in a well written philosophy book is a luminous work of art in and of itself. if nothing else read philosophy for the author's mastery of language.

>>5200281

Nonfiction (reality) is by definition superior to fiction (fantasy) in understand REALITY. Anyone who cannot INSTINCTIVELY grasp this should be EUTHANIZED.

>>5200629
I dunno why but this immediately made me burst into treats.

Hilarious post

>>5200629
my nigga

fuck these two faced poets

>>5200629

>>5200613
>quit talking about my post like that

S-sorry.

In all seriousness though you obviously don't know what you're talkin about and are probably either in high school or are pissing around college with some kind of an arts degree. You're a Franco, but most likely without the looks, money or success.

>>5200706
Say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens.

>>5200711
Come at me, Franco!

>>5200335

Good job. I guess this means their values are subjective. How surprising.

>>5200281
>>5200629

>>5200281
There are no paths to truth. Philosophy and stories can tell you what the world is like but not what the world IS.

>>5200959
Thanks for that, Yoda.

>+ 41 posts and 7 image replies omitted.
The perennial disappoint that comes from /lit/.

>>5200983
kek

>>5200281
>T̄ͭͭf́wͮ̐ͤͭ̔͆̕ ḩ̍̃̓͑ͬ̎ͭáv̢̓ͦ̿e ̢̄ͯa̷̐ͯ̑ͤ̉̆ ͥ̉̔̓̿͂2̑ͧ0̨͛̎̚0ͮ͒̔ͤ̈̃ ́̈̅́̎̓w̶̅͋̔̃ͮ̓̉o̧͊͋ͮͧͩ̅ŕ̍ͣ͞d̨ͩ̄ ͋̐̉e̋̈́ͨ͂̿͒sͩ̂s̑̇ͬ̾̏ͧ̇ä́y̏́̒͐̽ͮ̒͜ d͂̉ͥ̿͟u҉é͗ͫ͏ ̢i͐͒́ͩ̎͡n̓ ̢̃̔͋͑͊͊ͨ4̧̄̆ͥ͗̑̊ͫ ͒̆ͤͫ̑̃͞w̄͝e̋ͦ͗ͣ͟e̶ͯ̆͆̋k̓̒͛̾s͌͂͌̋̈
>ͬ̉̓̅T̴͌̑f̍̋ͣ̌ͤ҉w͌ͪ̃͆ ͨ̓̓̏͒h̴ͪ́́ͦͬa̛ͭv̷̓̇͆̓̓̎eͣn͗̈͑̂̋'t̵̍ ͂e̡̅v͜e̅͗ͤ͠ṅͯ̈ͤ́̿ ̨̄̔s̨ẗͣ̅́̈́̀͟a̡͊̀̚r͛̑̋t̶e̅̃̾̍͂̚͢d͡

Someone kill me

>>5200438
I'm going to assume that you haven't read any of Plato's works.

>>5200288
...
This is pretty good b8

jesus tits, y'all are dumb as fuck

do any of you fuckers actually know anything about philosophy, or do you just talk out your asses all day?

>>5201366
Plato is the worst example of how philosophy should NOT be done. He ruined philosophy by turning it into "lolol I arbitrarily redefine my intentionally vague words whenever possible, so I can be right and you are wrong because philosophy is all about winning a debate and not about establishing truth". He was the prototypical internet troll, a sophist par excellence.

>>5201827
His point is probably that Plato offers dialogues and does not tell you exactly what to think.

>>5200281
This doesn't look like an idea contained in a story. It's like not even you believe your bullshit.

>>5202489
hashtag wrecked

>>5200281
People learn in different ways. One way of learning something is by experiencing it through a story; another is by analyzing the overall concepts of the story and how it applies to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Philosophy records these sorts of thoughts. Great stories are a metaphor for certain common themes experienced during various periods of history -- philosophical works, in the same sense, investigate how those themes interact with each other and what it all means in the grand scheme of things.

>NOTHING said in a philosophy book can not be said better in a story.
the other way around would have made for better b8

Lol - she is taking a picture of her pussy, while the lion is about to eat her. How dumb can ya get??

Op you keep throwing around the word art. How exactly do you define art, though? Anything that provokes a reaction or feeling in a person can be considered art. The definition I used is vague, because art itself is vague. Philosophy is just as artful as say a found art urinal, so why do you think you can just outright dismiss it.

>>5200281
Define
>philosophy
>literature
>art
>worth
>great men
>mind

>>5200281
Without Philosophy there wouldnt be Logic,religion,political systems and metaphysics

Also, just stop talking over all pls. fuck

>>5200438
You know what you're doing right now is called? It's called philosophing.

>>5201151
get to work

>>5204873
Yeah but he's actually doing it well.

>>5200281
Stop trying to find excuses not to read.