/lit/ - Literature

>>5172945
Oh boy, cheap /tv/-esque threads for the cheapest and pulpiest books on the market.

Oh look, a k-pop thread on /mu/

About a year ago my dad picked up a book at some dude's garage sale and gave it to me, thinking I'd like it. I accepted, of course, but haven't read it yet because I'm not super big into the fantasy genre.

It's a book from Tad William's Otherworld series. Do you recommend it, /lit/?

>>5172970
I found it a Tad boring.

>>5172974
Ha.

>>5172970

I liked it, Although the female protag's inner monologue was mostly just "men suck/are boring."

Been reading Jeff Vandermeer's Southern Reach series. It's 10/10 breddy gud so far.

Has anyone ever been able to write about a non-human fantasy race that's actually believable?

>>5172958
Oh boy, overly hostile first poster pretending to be intellectual.

>>5173027
>You have to be intellectual to appreciate how shitty fantasy novels are.

>Containment thread

Since a decent portion of the threads on this board that actually have any discussion about fiction are genre-related, I guess this will be the "genre fiction trolling" containment thread instead

Keep the condescending remarks here, folks, it's just common courtesy

>>5173012

>>5173062
>Being this anally devastated that you enjoy autistic manchild things

I bet you play video games.

>>5173077
And post on 4chan!

>>5173051
>Hurr durr le funny board culture

>>5173077
>>5173051
>>5172958

Samebaby pls go

>>5173101
>Hurr durr le ironically keeping the ideology alive by making fun of it.

>>5173105
Close but no cigar, my friend!

>>5173101
Only the pure true Aryan Ubermensch can truly appreciate the wonders of fantasy novels, pickled bologna, Mahler, kittens, grape Nehi, caviar, Schopenhauer, Pynchon, peanut butter fudge, the beauty of women, the loyalty of a fine dog, Fillet mignon en croute aux champignons, the perfection of the brewer's art, or the majesty of victory in combat, both physical and intellectual!

i least that's what they say in Valhalla....

>>5172970

MST, Otherland and War of the Flowers are all books I would recommend.

>>5173154
Good, I like the sound of that. Are they all by the same author?

The problem now is that he got me the 4th book, so I'll have to hunt down the first 3.

>>5173012
R.A. Salvatore's drow elves come to mind.

>>5173212
what a thing to suy

Black Company holds up well on itself. Certainly the kinda thing /tg/ would get behind, but not dependent upon conventional fantasy norms, like many authors and readers seem to expect from this genre.

Do not judge the series by the DeviantArt Weaboo tributes you'll find in Google Images. I'd recommend it to anyone who likes fantasy.

So how about those ASOIAF fan theories from the previous thread?

>>5173274
unless you're new to the internet, do we really have to reiterate every single one all over again?

How 'bout dat dere Cosmere, eh?

>>5173254
Black Company is such a well-done, solid series.

I'll just put it here: I started Dresden Files and am on Proven Guilty now.

One thing that bothers me a bit is, and I know that I will sound edgy, god. I'm not sure how much of a role if any he will ever actively play, but as stupid as it sounds, in a world where faeries and every kind of mythological figures actually exist, I find the Abrahamic God hard to swallow because he is, well, all knowing and omnipotent.
If he was "just" the king/ruler/whatever of the angels it would be all right, but then they'd be nothing else but faeries, I guess.

I just think if you have an omnipotent, omniscient being, you have to make the story about it or feature it very prominently to explore how it interacts with human beings, as it obviously wouldn't have human conscience. But just saying, well, it's there and sometimes it will do something and sometimes not, it's unfathomable after all, seems.. lazy and at times literally deus ex machina.

The power of faith could've very well stayed, but with the introduction of Denarians they obviously included fallen angels and by extension angels, which more or less directly leads to god. Harry even states a few times he knows he exists, but struggles with believing.

So, to everyone who's already read them: will there some more exposition on "heavenly matters", which will give some more exposition?

>>5173254
I'd like to start reading these, I read a few reviews that called it "gritty". What do they mean by this? Does it literally just mean less plot armour? Or is it more graphic than usual?

Not saying it's a bad thing, just curious.

>>5173154

War of the Flowers is a pretty good one-shot, hoping he writes a sequel actually

>>5173463

Means it's more violent, deals more with amoral/morally ambiguous characters, addresses more of the seedy underbelly of the fictional society

>>5173392

It comes up a lot more, but it's never really explained.

>>5172970

the series is called Otherland, not Otherworld

One of the major plot points is exactly like Sword Art Online, I shit you not

>>5173960

>City of Golden Shadow (1996)
>Sword Art Online (2009-present)

>>5173994

I'm not saying Tad Williams took inspiration from an anime that came years later but it could have been the other way around

Then again "trapped in VR/trapped in the game" is a pretty common stock post-cyberpunk plot

>>5173960
Really? Well, the SAO concept was the only thing ever good with that show, so maybe I'll like this series of books better.

>>5173392
You're right, you do sound edgy pseud as fuck, please do not post again until you have gained a margin of self-awareness, thanks.

>>5173392

>>5173254

Second.

>>5173254

Have you read Dread Empire? Is it worth reading?

Hey, I love fantasy, trying to read the 'classics' of the genre if you will. Besides LotR what do you suggest? I've done all the classic YA stuff too...

>>5173254
>>5173383
>Black Company is such a well-done, solid series.
>>5174772

I only read the first three, and they were fucking great.

I'm a few books into Malazan and it's also good. You can see how heavy of an influence Glen Cook was.

>>5174962

>Fantasy "classics"

You want:

E.R. Eddison
Lord Dunsany
Mervyn Peake

Pic related also contains some classic fantasy

Here's a kind-of-ancient website that addresses fantasy novels that are considered high quality. Mostly includes works that are considered genre classics:

http://greatsfandf.com/authors-full-list.php

>>5173127
underrated post

>>5174962
The once and future king by th white

>>5175002
Malazan Book of the Fallen is probably my favorite fantasy series. "Military" chapters are indeed similar to Cook's Black Company (which I also like, but I find last books a bit boring), but the whole world building is its strongest point.

What is some good steampunk fantasies?

>>5173392
What books in the dresden files would /lit/ recommend for a first timer to the series. I heard that the series is just vignettes, and there's no real reading order

>>5177981
Well you heard wrong, you read from 1 to 15.

I just got Once and Future King today

hope im not disappointed

Currently reading Abercrombie's new one.

>>5172968

>implying kpop isn't awe-inspiring art that is so good its dangerous to watch

I'm thinking of starting the Malazan Book of the Fallen series.
What do you think about it?

>>5173254
Who are you people? I've read the first book not long ago, was such a disappointment from all the positive hype. I would say it is in the book world the same as Deviant art is in the "art" world. And look, i really wanted the book to grasp me through out the whole read.

>>5181573
>hates Black Company but probably like some contemporary hack like Jordan or Sanderson or Rothfuss

Maybe you should just go back to reading tabletop game manuals.

>>5181582
Sorry, i haven't read any of those authors yet. I certainly would if i could get my hands on some.

>>5181544
Great worldbuilding, not the best at character development. First book starts out slow and picks up towards the end.

Also not seeing you favorite characters for books at a time.

>>5181582
>mfw I like both Black Company and Sanderson

>>5181544
It's shit. Do Not Read.

>>5181544
It's a funny old series. It has a few rabid fanboys on here. I read the first 4. I generally liked them but have never had the urge to continue. The books are heavily flawed, but I will say Erikson has a way of building up to and then executing a fucking amazing climax in a way that no other writer in the genre does.

>>5181646

When people say MBotF is "great world building," they're trying to whitewash the fact that the entire series is overly self-indulgent and self-involved. MBotF fans are even worse than Doctor Who fans in not realizing how outright awkward, clumsy, and masturbatory their favorite series is in establishing a fictional world.

>>5183485
In defense of MBotF, which I haven't read, Doctor Who fans are fully aware of how awkward, clumsy, and masturbatory their favorite series is. They relish it. It's what makes them infinitely worse than every other fan base out there save Sherlock.

>>5183493

Sherlock has an understandable fan base, because the characters are actually fun and interesting to watch, even if the storytelling would otherwise qualify it as one of the more piss poor "creative" literary adaptations out there.

>>5183493
The leftist, BBC agenda-pushing, "family-friendly," Doctor Who reboot should not be confused with classic Doctor Who, which is great slow-burn sci-fi.

>>5183908
I haven't watched Doctor Who for a while - what sort of agenda-pushing is it doing?

>>5183970
Inter-species lesbians, the Doctor going on about tolerance and fairness all the time, bashing religion, Queen of space-England thousands of years in the future is black, etc.

>>5184006
jesus christ what

>>5184018
What did you expect from one of Tumblr's favourite shows?

>>5184006

>I hate a show because it has common sense morality and features people who are different from me

I fucking hate Doctor Who but Jesus Christ you sound like a piece of work. It also probably says something about your character that you associate "tolerance and fairness" with a perceived political agenda that you're against.

>>5184252
Not him, but from the way he describes it, it sounds pretty forced.

>>5184252
The BBC is objectively attempting to push a Progressive agenda through its shows. Robin Hood quotes the Koran, a black actor is cast as Guinevere, "colour-blind casting" in general, the future Queen of England is portrayed as being black (hugely insulting IMO). etc. In one show about a lawyer from the 1700s (!), they did a pro-homosexual episode in which he waxes poetic to the accused homosexual about how one day "love will prevail," "there will be no more hate," and so on and so forth--outright Progressive sloganeering. This is patently absurd nonsense pushed out in the name of social engineering.

>common sense morality
>implying contemporary Progressive "morality" is "common sense"
>implying morality can ever be "common sense"

Your juvenile opinion has been disregarded.

>>5184290

>throwing an internet tantrum because there are minorities and references to other cultures on the telly
>calls someone else's opinion juvenile

lel 'kay

>>5184325
>literally too stupid to recognize when an organ of the State is using propaganda to push a political agenda, despite the fact that said recognition need have no bearing on his support for that agenda

The BBC's agenda is impossible to deny, but OK, keep walking around with those ideological blinders on while your intellectual betters strive to examine the world sub specie aeternitatis

>>5184337

>Robin Hood Quotes the Qur'an

You're whining because a television station references a highly important work of literature from a culture other than your own. Why?

>>5184290
>a black actor is cast as Guinevere

While I don't imagine the character as black and could see where some might take issue with this... so, what's your problem?

>"color-blind casting" in general

Let's say there's a show about a white detective solving mysteries, and a show about a black detective with the exact same setup and plot. Please explain to me the difference, oh enlightened one

>the future queen of England is portrayed as being black (hugely insulting IMO)

I don't see how this is insulting, unless you're someone who cries sweet racist manchild tears at the thought of interracial sex.

>an episode in which he waxes poetic to the accused homosexual about how one day "love will prevail"

You seriously think people should be jailed for having consensual gay sex? lol okay. And you think other anons' opinions are juvenile. Okay.

>>5184377
At least for that last part, I think what he meant was at the time homo sex was seen as a fucked up thing so why would the character try to defend homosexuality instead of the accused? I've never seen it so I don't know the full context but it wouldn't make much sense for it to have a very progressive attitude while set in the far past

>>5184377
Please. Who's "whining"? All I'm doing is pointing out the obnoxious and crude ideological agenda of a State communications organ.

Your whole post amounts to purposeful misinterpretation, willful blindness, and "it doesn't count!" apparently on the basis of the fact that your ideological convictions match their agenda.

>>5184377
>You're whining because a television station references a highly important work of literature from a culture other than your own. Why?
I'm not familiar with the story of Robin Hood in great detail, but I don't think it involves Islam to any great degree.

>While I don't imagine the character as black and could see where some might take issue with this... so, what's your problem?
'Guinevere' literally means 'The White Enchantress'. I think it's not unreasonable to posit that all characters from Arthurian myth are 'supposed' to be white.

>I don't see how this is insulting, unless you're someone who cries sweet racist manchild tears at the thought of interracial sex.
It's sure possible but it's still pretty strange in the same way that a science-fiction show depicting the Intergalactic Chinese Emperor as a white man would be 'strange'. Out of place, perhaps.

>You seriously think people should be jailed for having consensual gay sex? lol okay. And you think other anons' opinions are juvenile. Okay.
It's probably more that people 'waxing poetic' about such a topic a couple of centuries ago in Britain is just terribly out of place and historically inaccurate.

I don't disagree with the values that the BBC is evidently trying to push, but I can see how this could get annoying.

>>5173111
Close but no cigar, my friend!

Now to move on from my shitposting, I love fantasy and have read obnoxious amounts of it, but there is absolutely no reason for a general.
Ignoring the fact that generals are cancer in and of themselves, fantasy like many other genres has something new and interesting maybe once or twice every few years. Fucking make a thread when that happens. Don't just sit here and circlejerk.

>>5184377
>Let's say there's a show about a white detective solving mysteries, and a show about a black detective with the exact same setup and plot. Please explain to me the difference, oh enlightened one

Not the person you're responding too.

The character arcs will, however small, diverge due to the inherited social pressures of colour of skin. Writing their development as the exact same is disingenuous to how both would realistically be treated in real life.

Everything in a novel (I'm assuming by extension tv plot) must be there for a purpose.

I'm writing a story which is an allegory to Frankenstein and features a male character who has his gender (pseudo-magically) changed into a beautiful woman.

Is there anyway I can make this sound non-fetishy? Maybe its the way I approach it in the story?

>>5184776
Don't have anything that has the MC exploring his body or anything like that. Keep it generally tame and I think it should be fine

>>5184776
I dunno bro, that seems pretty fetishy.

>>5184776
Depends, is this your fetish?
If yes, then it will sound fetishy no matter what you do.

Since this is a fantasy thread I was wondering how my opening is for a piece of writing I was working on?

>>5185375

junk

>>5173070
>fantasy

:^

>>5185537
>:^
I love that smiley, it's so meta. Made me laugh out loud just filling the fucking blank in mentally

>>5173392
It's not that he struggles with believing, it's that he doesn't consider himself and God to really be on speaking terms.

Also, God's not really omnipotent because free will.

>>5174776
Eh... kinda. There's some good ideas in there but the series sort of starts to lose its momentum after the second or third book, kinda like Black Company.

In fact I'd say Black Company is the only series of Glen Cook's that I've enjoyed almost all the way through, but now that I'm on the last two books I can't be bothered with finishing them because, seriously, almost every character I gave a shit about is gone.

>>5185380
Agreed, it's pretty fucking awkward and amateurish.

>>5185375
I think it would be fine if it wasn't the opening. Set it up a bit more. Maybe describe or Reuel or something. How am I supposed to pronounce that name also?

>>5183485
>the entire series is overly self-indulgent and self-involved
What do you mean by that?

Hey, /lit/. I've read LOTR, am caught up on ASOIAF, have read the Bas-Lag books as well as Abercrombie's stuff, and am looking for something new.

Specifically, I want big, lush worldbuilding and lots of political intrigue. I know ASOIAF has both, but maybe something slightly less dry. Something you'd recommend as fantasy for someone who really liked Dune.

inb4 "but Dune is so dry it's literally a desert"

>>5184265
All these things are introduced and then dropped again over the course of, what, 7 seasons now?