/lit/ - Literature

Ecclesiastical (Church) Latin.

>>5164907
Is it difficult to learn it?

I was just about to make a thread for this:
What translation of Summa Contra Gentiles is good and easily available?
I see the one on ccel.org but it's abridged. Others are posted online and not in handy pdf or epub formats.

>>5164918
It's closer to English that classical Latin (that of Cicero for instance). If you speak French, Spanish or Italian that shouldn't be too hard. If not, learn your basic Latin, buy a dictionary, and it should be okay.
Another solution is to buy a translation/bilingual edition with notes.

You can find versions with side-by-side Latin online, if that helps.

>>5164931
I know Spanish, but it's Mexican Spanish and I haven't really tried reading it but I know that my spelling at it is atrocious.
>Another solution is to buy a translation/bilingual edition with notes.
Any recommendations?

>>5164895
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=aquinas&open=0&view=simple&column=def

Search for yourself

>tfw Vatican II ensured that I didn't learn church latin in sunday school
any good books/sites to learn it from?

>>5164946
Mexican spanish?

Why is that relevant?

>>5165082
It has more slang and I would assume that Latin would be closer to Spanish Spanish.

>>5165082
Not that guy, but most teachers of Spanish in the USA grossly exaggerate the differences between the Spanish spoken in Europe, the Spanish spoken in México, and the Spanish spoken in South America.

It's a total mess, with barely educated creeps going "oh, I don't understand because I learned Mexican Spanish"--when the truth is, they wouldn't understand in any case, because they barely learned ANY Spanish to begin with.

>>5165109
>because they barely learned ANY Spanish to begin with.
m8 are you telling me that I barely learned any Spanish even though I speak it everyday in my household?

>>5165103
>It has more slang

LOL. You know nothing about Spanish. It's cute, in a way.

>>5165131
Yes, exactly. Americans speak English daily in their households--doesn't mean they actually know anything about the language.

>>5165134
Like I said I only speak and I wold rather not know any of it.

please please please read excerpts of the good stuff
aquinas' rambling shit in summa theologica clocks out at like 6000 pages

>>5165175
Some of his rambling is fascinating, though.

And it's not like you have to read huge chunks of it at a time. The Articles of the Summa can basically be taken one a day. Sure, you'll spend more than a year going through the whole thing, but that's all right. Think of it as a daily spiritual exercise- and since you're spending time going through the Summa in the first place, you're probably the sort of person that could make good use of one.

>>5165223
Aquinas is a damn genius. When I read him for a while I started to become Catholic, I actually took a fucking pause for months because I started going to church and thinking about doing confession and all that stuff. It's scary. I've dabbled in various philosophers but medievals have a crazy ability to put metaphysical concepts into terms that seem so clear and right, and Aquinas is top of the game.

>>5164895
but, honestly, because St TA isn't read for his style, the translation—so long as it's by a good publisher—should be OK

>>5165252
Have you ever read "On Evil"? I think Aquinas' treatment of evil, and moral wrong, is among the best in all of philosophy and ethics. I think it even has applications in a secular setting, given its emphasis on the concentric spheres of evil=>sin=>moral wrong.

>>5164895
thomas daquin, the thinjer and creator of thomism

>>5165283
How does Aquinas' treatment of morality differ from Aristotle's?

>>5165103
Im a spanish native speaker, from Spain actually.

Maybe you think that the spanish we talk here is better or more " pure" and "original".

Thats a lie. The Spanish that Argentinians or Mexicans speaks is the same language that we speak in Spain. There are some specific things like the "Voseo"(rioplatense) or the lack of accent in the letters "C" "Z" (Spanish people pronounce them with accent while latin americans don't)...and a couple more things. But, essentially, is the same language. The RAE accept all the variations of Spanish as valid because they are all right. They all respect the grammar and they have their own cult norm.

It doesn't matter what variation of the language you speak, as long as you speak well.

Now, for some cultural exchange, can I ask if it happens the same in english?

>tfw you share your name day with Thomas
I couldn't ask for a better saint

>>5165335
>It doesn't matter what variation of the language you speak, as long as you speak well.
I would rather not speak it at all.

>>5165346
What do you mean?

>>5165351
I hate Spanish because it reminds me of what "my" heritage is supposed to be.
Mexico is practically a third-world country that has contributed little to nothing to the arts and Spain has only dabbled with a few artists, a few musicians in the Baroque era, and a few films, nowhere near the contributions of other European countries.

>>5165329
Aquinas understands evil better than Aristotle. He bases his morality in large degree on Aristotle, but he marries him rather brilliantly to the conception of evil advanced by Augustine. Augustine sees evil as 'nothing,' or more precisely, as a 'privation of good.' Thus, for Aquinas, all that is evil, and all that is sinful, can be understood as a defect of ideal creation. Aristotle's notion of morality- of behaving in the right way at the right time in the right place, and so on- therefore takes on the status of being a matter of degrees. There is the truly moral act, and all immoral acts move out from it by virtue of their ever-increasing defectiveness, until we reach 'pure evil,' or rather, don't reach it, because pure evil is nothing at all.

>>5165335
>Now, for some cultural exchange, can I ask if it happens the same in english?

Exact same. No matter if you're from India, Australia, England, or the USA, we all use the same words (except a small handful [emphasis on small] of differing slag) and we understand each other perfectly.

It's actually ridiculous to me that there are teachers who will label themselves as "UK English Teacher" as opposed to "USA English teacher" because, for one, the students don't know the fucking difference anyway (in terms of accents and the like). Another is that you can literally learn the slang differences in a day. Not even a day--half a day.

It's nugatory, at best.

Same in Spanish, as you more or less posted >>5165335. It's why I blow my stack when I hear Americans say "Mexican Spanish is so DIFFERENT than Spanish-Spanish!"

>>5164918
Well, lets say that Jamba Juice started to read Aquinas in Latin during his late teens, so, no.

Why would you want to learn a new language just to read some asshat using circular logic to justify his idiotic beliefs?

>>5165367

I don't even know how to respond that.

I mean, I can go on and show lots of musicians painters writers(seriously, musician is tricky but writers?) .

My friend, You are wrong. Sorry but that is just ignorance.

>>5165391
Its just idiotic. A high school teacher told me that in Germany that "standard" concept of the language actually happens, with the Hochdeutsch. But in that case is necessary because in some cases they dont even understand each other. Like if one person is from the north and another from the south(don't know if it is exactly like that).

>>5165408
Holy shit anon, stop, you're scaring the children with these edges

>>5165517
>God is real because God is perfect, and to be perfect something must exist
Apparently reasoning is real edgy these days.

>>5165535
>God is real because God is perfect, and to be perfect something must exist
this is anselm's ontological argument, not aquinas'

>>5165548
He was still a Catholic, basically the same level of irrationality.

>>5165567
>irrationality

You mean 'suprarationality.'

>>5165570
To even imply that Catholicism could even reach the level of rationality, let alone going beyond it, is laughable.

>>5165630
Christ's blessings be upon you.

>>5165635
i jew.

>>5165635
Who's this "Christ" fellow you keep mentioning? Us Catholics only pray to Mary, Joseph, or the Pope.

>>5164895
if you want to learn ecclesiastic Latin, start with the LXX (septuagint)

>>5164918
it's pig shit easy if you've learned romance language. and if even if you haven't, the exercise of the mind is worth it.

>>5165567
>>5165630

>>5165567
wow

>>5166539
Cute meme bro.

>>5166762
thnx u 2

it's just as easy for an english speaker as it is for a romance speaker

>>5166762
Fedora wearer confirmed
Only a literal fedora wearer would get genuinely mad at that.

>>5168402
"Mother, come hither, I posted the hat again. Look, Mother, I trolled them so hard and now they're all mad."

>>5168418
>getting mad over someone making fun of you for wearing a shitty hat
lol

>>5165454
This is actually real with German. It's not as terrible as you make it sound, but German in the north can be closer to Dutch than to Alpine German. It's on a much larger spectrum than English or Spanish.

This is both a huge pain and really fun.

>>5165367
That purely American ignorance

>>5168418

No, but really if you're dismissing Aquinas on a ground of being catholic you're literally a retard and you should basically remove half of the philosophical canon ever created if you wanted to get rid of Catholics. Perhaps one of the best philosophers ever among them.

Aquinas is a freaking genius and I say it as a profound agnostic.

>>5164895
Aquinas wrote in Latin. If you'e Catholic you might as well learn the language so you can read the Vulgate. It's not too hard.
>>5165025
A damn shame indeed.
>>5165367
Don't hate on your own heritage.
>>5165648
Is this just a really clever "start with the Greeks"?
>>5168970
Aquinas is decent but let's not get too carried away. He does literally ask questions about how many angels can fit on the head of a needle. I also heard that the Greek church doesn't consider him a theologian as he never experienced theophany.

>>5169119
Have you ever read anything by him? He bettered Aristotelian thought to the unspeakable degree and that's a pretty hard job. "Decent". Nice. Being one of 10-12 philosophers who are backbone of philosophy is more than just decent.

His mysticism shouldn't be something to discourage you from reading his other, sometimes splendid works.

>>5169230
I was actually commenting on his lack of mysticism actually. Obviously he's an important figure but as to my own tastes and opinions, I would disagree with those who claim he's "the best". I find a lot of Aristotelian assumptions regarding "causality" and essences and stuff to be kind of dumb. But then again I've only read the Summa and only in translation and only in smaller edited forms as part of a course on medieval christian philosophy.

>>5165367
Spain has tons of contribution to the arts and sciences, what the heck

>>5169230
To clarify further; the "angels on a pinhead" remark was simply a joke. I merely intended it to mean that his medieval theological concerns might seem remote from the everyday concerns of modern individuals such as ourselves.

What are some recommended works to start with?

>>5169322
I just started with Summa Theologica back then and loved it. It took some time until I understood what he actually meant with the terms he was always using but it was the first philosophical book I've ever read so maybe it is enough if you read a short introduction to get an overview of his definitions and then just choose whichever book you like.