/lit/ - Literature

>Israel was part of "Palestine" before WWII?

Yes: the Mandate of Palestine, a British colony under the mandate of the League of Nations.

>Who were the inhabitants of that area in ancient times?

Well ancient times is a pretty large period of history. All sorts of people, including Jews and others.

>Why the fuck are there people called Palestinians when there is no such thing as Palestine?

There is such a thing as Palestine. It's just not a state. Same reason there are Kurds but no Kurdistan.

>>5141977
I just realized I was on /lit/, oops
the middle east has my head spinning. I now understand why people hate kikes and towel heads

I never actually studied it but I've been on /pol/ so I've picked up a few things.

>israel forcibly made a state out of the middle east after world war 2
> literally the holy land of three major religions
> niggas are mad because they are imperialistic as fuck and backed by America
> used three dead kids as an excuse to do more imperialism

>>5141992
>that awkward moment when you agree with /pol/ on an issue

>>5141987
>I now understand why people hate kikes and towel heads
That's a natural knee-jerk reaction to the sudden discovery that most of the world is still pretty culturally backwards. It'll pass with time, probably when you realize just how ridiculous the culture or sub-culture you belong to is. Or not, some people are ignorant that valid worldviews exist outside their own for their whole lives.

>>5141992
>israel forcibly made a state out of the middle east

after WWII the jewish people were given a homeland because it was kind of difficult for them to assimilate with any other people. i.e. holocaust, genocide, everyone hates jews

ur a dumbass

>>5141992
Agreed, but people are starting to forget that Hamas is a bunch of shitcunts too, and that is something that should not be forgotten.
Also, don't ever trust /pol/

>>5142010
>given
>lobbied for

>>5142008
I don't know what you are on about but in regards to my last post- it was a joke representing my frustration at the cluster fuck that is the middle east and how it is hard for me to fully follow the story and know who is telling the facts and who is a religious sheep.

>>5142010
I never studied it faggot
I made the disclaimer that I come from /pol/
Also how do you "just get"land that is as sacred as Jerusalem?

>>5142010
>kind of difficult for them to assimilate with any other people
It's more along the lines of "No country wanted to accept the responsibility of rehabilitating a generation of displaced people, so they all agreed to promote a fringe movement of people demanding to resettle the holy land, without asking the opinion of anybody who lived there, and were surprised when the locals weren't pleased with the decision"

>>5142024
>Also how do you "just get"land that is as sacred as Jerusalem?
Become a Good Samaritan

Nobody on /lit/ knows the "high places" origins of Yahweh worship or non-Temple judaism, so this joke goes over everyone's heads

>>5142034
Yahweh is the release of sexual energy. A man cumming...

p.s. you are a phaggot

>>5142015
I know not to trust /pol/ but I feel like on this issue I can

Jews are oppressed people. If you kill 6 million Jews because a few Jews fucked up that's degenerate. You're implying that 6 million people had power over Germany. I understand not, liking Zionists but hating Jews seems childish

>>5141962

Here's a quick summary:

The middle east and north africa east of algeria was ruled by the ottoman turks, who allied themselves with germany in world war 1

After they lost world war 1, the empire collapsed and its lands were partitioned between britain and france

Britain got egypt and palestine while france got Syria. Istanbul (or Constantinople as it was known then, was made an international city, meaning no European power had control of it)

France then divided Mount Lebanon from Syria. (which was already an autonomous region under the ottomans) This was done mostly because it was Christian. They also got control of the surrounding Muslim areas, which led to a deep divide which culminated in the Lebanese Civil War

The Turks formed a nationalist party under the man who would come to be known as Mustafa Ataturk. Under his leadership, the Turks regained control of Anatolia and Constantinople after a war with Greece and Greece's British allies. Ataturk founded the Republic of Turkey, a modern, secular country that still exists today

Palestine was put under British administration. There was a growing conciousness amongst European Jews of the desire for a Jewish homeland, and since Palestine was the site of the ancient kingdom of Judea, many began migrating once the British controlled and pacified the region. After World War 2, the trickle of Jewish settlers to Palestine became a flood and Britain created a Jewish mandate which would grow to become the State of Israel. This infuriated the rest of the Middle East and led to a war that Israel won handily. During and after this war, most Palestinians were forcibly expelled from Israel to neighboring Jordan and Lebanon. The influx of Muslim Palestinians worsened the already tepid relations between Lebanese Christians and Muslims.

Meanwhile, in Persia (Iran), anger over the creation of Israel, concerns over control of the kingdom's vast oil reserves and the influence of Western values on the Persian king (or shah) led to fullscale revolt that installed the world's first Islamic Republic. They follow Shia Islam. Meanwhile, in the south, the Gulf countries, who follow Sunni Islam, grew rich from their oil reserves and began to use their wealth and power to influence global politics.

1/2

>>5141992

No.

Israel was created by the British to solve the "Jewish Question" in 1947. Zionist Jews had already bought a sizable portion of what the British originally ordained as Israel from Palestinians themselves and the Brits, among others. This disenfranchised a number of previous locals, "Palestinians". The surrounding Muslim states, mad because Muslims hate ceding land, collectively attacked Israel. Israel responded, expanded somewhat, and consolidated its boarders, defeating militaries from every surrounding state.

Palestinians were then crowded off the land, having been hostile participants in a battle against the now de facto and de jure owners of the land of Israel, and they whined because it sucks to lose. No one wanted to integrate the Palestinians into their countries.

in 67, Anwar Sadat, Egyptian president, in a nationalistic frenzy somewhat related to an uptick in anti-Imperialism at the time demagogue'd his way into getting every nation surrounding Israel to again attack Israel. Troops were massing on the Israeli boarders. Before anyone could actually launch the attack, Israel's air force decimated the assembled armies and their ground forces seized the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza (plus a little extra) and held them for a short period as a buffer and to let everyone know not to fuck with Israel.

Israel ceded much of the land after this, maintaining an occupation of Golan, West Bank, and Gaza, and keeping East Jerusalem. Everyone was butthurt but couldn't do anything because they'd lost a war where they were the initial aggressors.

All sorts of shit happened between then and now, but the gist of it is that no one, NO ONE, wants to deal with the Palestinians, and everyone is foisting the issue on each other. Meanwhile the Palestinians' situation grows increasingly desperate and Hamas is attempting to accrue a pile of civilian corpses to throw before the international community as evidence that they're truly martyrs and that the Israelis are the aggressors. They're doing this by committing random and/or organized acts of violence against any Israeli they can get their hands on.

Hamas is the only source of political organization in Gaza so the people are forced to rely on murderers. Israel points to the fact that Gazans elect murderers who actively threaten Israel (which is true) to justify their attacks (which, imo, are justified, but sad).

It's not black/white.

The situation is fucked.

>>5142049
>Yahweh is the release of sexual energy. A man cumming...
No archaeological or literary evidence

>>5142068
This, combined with several unsuccessful wars with Israel led to two major civil wars in Algeria and Lebanon. The former signaled the final age of European domination in the Middle East as France lost its last major Muslim territory. Meanwhile, in Lebanon, Iran, Syria, The Palestinian Liberation Organization Saudi Arabia, and Israel used the instability of the region to fight a proxy war with one another under the pretext of a Lebanese Civil War. The lasting implications of this war was the large scale immigration from Christians from the country and the creation of Hezbollah, a Shia militant group headquartered in the South of Lebanon founded by members of the Iranian guard whose ultimate goal is to protect other Muslims from Israel. Their methods have been decried by most human rights organizations in the world and are considered by most countries to be a terrorist organization. Lebanon today is still reeling from the civil war as well as spillover from the civil war in neighboring Syria. Israel has been cautiously accepted by Egypt after a series of negotiations in the 70's but their position is still precarious. Iran and the Gulf Countries, specifically Saudi Arabia, continue to fund and train militant groups and everyone keeps getting loads of money from oil (except Iran because lolsanctions). Iran, speaking of which, recently elected a more moderate president, and it is hoped that his rule will lead to lessening of tensions and a move towards a more democratic and secular Middle East

>>5142084
go ask some Hebrews in the know, ya schmuck.

I love people who insist the Palestinian Exodus was voluntary and Israel had no part in forced removal, murder, and home stealing. I remember when they allowed some historians to look at their military archives and when it was discovered that they weren't honest, the information was deemed "sensitive" and locked up ad classified.

I don't mind all of the Israeli government, but I hate them because they are hypocrites and pretend they're the good guys.

>>5142103
>I love people who insist the Palestinian Exodus was voluntary and Israel had no part in forced removal, murder, and home stealing.
I've never heard anyone once say this

>>5142068
>>5142085
Thanks

>>5141992
>israel forcibly made a state out of the middle east after world war 2

Incorrect, the British controlled the Palestinian area following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The first High Commisioner of the Palestinian Mandate was Herbert Samuel, a Jew, but who was acting as a British representative. Palestine already had a sizable Ashkenazi community since the 19th century, and in 1947 Britain withdrew from Mandatory Palestine, leaving Jewish and Arab citizens to fend for themselves. It was then that David Ben-Gurion declared a State of Israel, which the United Nations did not recognize until after it had fended off a joint invasion from Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. The modern borders of Israel were agreed upon through peace talks between the countries involved, not any foreign mandate.

>>5142069
Everybody read this

>>5142010
They should've just get a part of Germany yo.

>>5142069
>Sadat
You mean Nasser, Sadat was the 1973 war

The Jews that lived there were a minority and spoke arabic while doing their prayers in hebrew.

>>5143725
Australia would have been better. Far more land there.

>>5144025
But just like Palestine, not really related to Jews, while Germany stole their shit and killed their people.

>>5143395
> in 67, Sadat...
> EVERYBODY READ THIS

Im surprised to see so many antisemites on this board, thought that lit was more intelligent than this.

> Palestinian identity is a fiction
> Khazar converts who lived all their lives in Germany/Poland have a right to that land!

>>5142034
He was a pagan god of war, standardised monotheism appeared after political wars with worshippers of other gods in the same Pantheon (Baal and such), as well as major influences from Zoroastrianism.

>>5144046
Yeah, I notice you're still not getting the joke.

>>5144040
Yeah well you were sorely mistaken

Good goy muh 6mil le happey merchant xD

The Jews were a major group in "Israel"/"Judea", and related sets of Jewish/Hebrew/whatever you want to call them kingdoms in the Levant, from around the end of the Bronze Age (1000BC), down to the Roman era and beyond. They were conquered successively by, and mediated their continued existence under, several states, like the Achaemenids, Alexandrian Diadochi, Roman Empire, and Islamic Caliphate. Their heyday as a political force was well before the Neo-Assyrian Empire and the Babylonian Captivity, being dismembered early on and then slinking into minor status (search Kingdom of Israel/Judah). Despite their numerous rebellions under the Romans (made to appear more noteworthy than they really were by post hoc Christian European interest in Jewish history), they were pretty much just a particularly quirky provincial substratum by the Roman era. They were thoroughly Hellenized like everyone else and their intellectuals tended from early on to travel and found colonies in other cities, e.g. Alexandria, where they constantly feuded with the local Greeks.

The word Palestine comes from the Philistines, who probably settled in the Levant strip around the end of the Bronze Age. They weren't Jewish. They were probably related to the 'Sea Peoples', a group of invaders that shitkicked the ancient world around that time. The Romans would later derive the name Palaestina for the region (Roman pronunciation problems, similar to how 'Phoenicians' become 'Puni'), and it stuck. The name Palestine is regional, a leftover from Roman provincial adminitration. The name 'Israel' is an anachronism, referring to a political entity that was dissolved at least by the 6th century BC, and then only to an imagined stateless 'nation'. There was no state of Israel for over two thousand years before the foundation of the modern one. After the rebellions of the Roman period, there was no organisation capable of ever creating one, and the Jews had the massive diaspora that would characterise them into the Middle Ages and modern day.

From then on the Holy Land was an extremely minor and marginal province to virtually everyone who controlled it, and Jews were by far not the majority. It was populated by indigenous Christians who never left, Muslims who lived there after the Caliphate's expansion (and pre-Muslim Arabs, many of them Christian, for almost as long as the Jews before that), eventually Crusaders, etc. Often contested, eventually administered by the Ottomans, then European powers after the Ottomans took a dump in their asabiyya pants.

The modern nation of Israel is described above. It's just a fiction given form by the fact that a quasi-fascist volksgeist was formed around the idea by Jewry who were beginning, for the first time in history, to chafe REALLY badly in their diaspora homes. Russia was evicting them en masse for up to a century before the foundation of the modern state, and most of them got dumped on the then-Russian province of Poland. post-WW1 'recreated' Poland had serious problems with ethnic minorities and was trying to create an ethnic national state, while many Jews were radicalising of their own accord, becoming more self-conscious, 'nationally' conscious. Similar problems in other countries.

Friction increased dialectically: Zionism ('Jewish nationalism') appeared at the outset of the 20th century and began to be more and more seriously discussed, while the same kind of ethnic self-consciousness, a peculiar hallmark of the 20th century, was rising in most nations as well. The result was mutual animosity, anti-Semitism becoming insanely common in almost all European/Western countries. There were lots of plans and ideas to 'give' the Jews a home in some former colonial territory, even (infamously) places like Madagascar. Easy to do when Euros still controlled, formally or informally, half the planet, including much of the former Ottoman lands and the Middle East.

After WW2 they settled on 'Israel', for reasons outlined above.

>>5144030
>But just like Palestine, not really related to Jews
Exactly. So they may as well have gone somewhere with fewer people to compete with. They would have had some degree of modern technology so could live in places even the abbos found inhospitable, and the land around them is mostly useless so no reason to expand.

>>5142069
this is revisionist as fuck.

everyone please do your own fucking research, this guy is a sloth

>>5142015
Hamas does not truly care about the Palestinians, the only care about the glory of martyrdom.

>>5142085
>Hezbollah, a Shia militant group headquartered in the South of Lebanon founded by members of the Iranian guard whose ultimate goal is to protect other Muslims from Israel. Their methods have been decried by most human rights organizations in the world and are considered by most countries to be a terrorist organization
Most countries in the world are wrong.

>>5144615
Given that terrorist is just an empty label, maybe but let's not act like Hezbollah use pretty methods to reach their goals. (Not really different from Israels army of course)

>>5144040
Anti Israel does mean were anti semetic. Don't confuse the two. That's why Israel gets away with so much

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

>>5144730
No, thank you.

>>5144857
yeah, fuck reading LOL XD

>>5144031
I quoted the wrong wall of text

>yfw Hitler originally considered deporting the Jews to Palestine

Madagascar was only thought about later

>>5142024
british ruled it
british gave it

>>5145182
>yfw Palestinian leader Haj Amin al-Husseini told Hitler "The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because they had the same enemies... namely the English, the Jews, and the Communists'"

Am I the only one who feels the Semitic races have lost their right to exist on planet earth?

Seriously, how is the world any better for their enduring into the present day?

How different things might have been, if Alexander hadn't died so young.

>>5144879
Rooting through the trash of wikipedia looking for something cogent, accurate and unbiased is not reading.

>>5145182
they encouraged zionism but german jews were only jews by ancestry; many were just modern cosmopolitan europeans and didn't want to go to the middle east

>>5145190
A single kebab is worth twenty whites.

Source: any /pol/ thread, where a country with 5% kebab population is declared as having conquered it.

>>5145192
Not sure if troll or really believes this shit.

>>5145204
1 in 20 is substantial, you fuckass. Especially considering there are more arabs and niggers than there are white people and they breed more.

>>5145190

Look at what white people did back in the day. semitic races are just delayed in their development. Give them 500 years and they will be bros.

>>5142069
>Before anyone could actually launch the attack, Israel's air force decimated the assembled armies and their ground forces seized the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza (plus a little extra) and held them for a short period as a buffer and to let everyone know not to fuck with Israel.

OY VEY

>>5145190
Muslims are OK. They deserve a second chance.

>>5145246
no they aren't
arabs are okay
muslims are not okay

>>5145221
>1 in 20
>substantial
That is:
>5 in 100
>50 in 1000
>500 in 10,000
>5000 in 100,000

kebab taking over yurop guise.

>>5142069

> "mad because Muslims hate ceding land"

Anyone would hate ceding land, let alone land considered holy.

>>5145255
if they won't farm, they won't eat
fuck them

>>5144879

>>5145255

Fair enough.

But if you lose, you lose. International politics are waged in anarchy

>>5145937

>"For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses—either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us—and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Spartans, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must"

>>5144040
What is keeping /pol/ from spilling out of /pol/?

Nothing.

You are now aware that their tinhat bullshit will continue to plague 4chan forever and that you should probably get a new digital hobby.

If you are not from 4chan, this would be a good moment to sigh in relief.

If you are with the NSA, please consider forcing moot at gunpoint to delete /pol/. Oh wait, you still need it to test all your data mining software. Just kill off /r9k/ then.

the only difference between /pol/ and /lit/ is:
/pol/ wants an enforced cultural identity
/pol/ gets people spewing mantras like "gas the kikes, race war now"

that's about it

/pol/ here, I figured out a simple solution to the Middle East problem:

Bomb Jerusalem and anything related to King Solomon.

You are welcome, /lit/.

>>5142068
Actually, the ottomen called it istanbul. Furthermore, things you're forgetting about Iran's first foray into democracy as a secular republic.
>>5142069
Forgetting about the PLO, which is willing to talk at least.
>>5144040
I'm good with jews, I just think isreal is run by dicks. If it makes you feel any better, I don't like Hamas either.
>>5144615
No, it's terrorism. If it'll make you feel any better, the stuff the contras did was terrorism too.

>>5141962
What is pic related from?

>>5146318

>>>/new/

>>5146421
The movie Four Lions. Very overrated.

>>5142069
>Meanwhile the Palestinians' situation grows increasingly desperate and Hamas is attempting to accrue a pile of civilian corpses to throw before the international community as evidence that they're truly martyrs and that the Israelis are the aggressors. They're doing this by committing random and/or organized acts of violence against any Israeli they can get their hands on.

So the Palestinian situation is "desperate" but not because of the Israelis? Oh ok makes sense

After World War 2 the British made conflicting promises to both the Arabs and the Jews who had fled the holocaust, promising what was Arab territory before colonialism to the Arabs and their occupation zone to the Jews.

During this period of uncertainty Jews from Europe began to migrate en masse to the area that is now Israel, and directives from the Arab king stated that they were to be welcomed and received as refugees. As the various nascent Arab States organized and prepared for unification, civil unrest in the area grew with blood racial mob violence on BOTH sides. Eventually the Jews formed organized militias and began ethnically cleansing the local Arabs. As the Arabs fled the four main militias something called the crossroads campaign ensued, in which roadside bombs were set and detonated with the intent of killing as many fleeing Palestinian Arabs as possible.

This paramilitary operation (Plan Dalet), rather than the British Mandate, is what led to the birth of the State of Israel. The Arab States waited until after the British Mandate's expiration to attack the Israelis, choosing to play by international law and with the intent of eventually repatriating the Palestinians to their homeland. What ensued was a demonstration of how a properly organized military with American military tech and air superiority can easily kick the shit out of poorly trained, organized, and equipped enemies.

>>5144040
>>5146310
>criticism = /pol/ish judeophobia!
You're just as bad as /pol/- probably ARE /pol/.

>>5146443
How dare you, the marathon scene when they shoot they guy made up for it so much.

>>5147105

Didn't say it's not the Israelis. I will say that it's not JUST the Israelis. And some credit is due with the Palestinians themselves.

>>5147156
>cleansing the local Arabs

and the British forces who allowed the Jews to come in the first place.