/lit/ - Literature

>>5082761
>he just pushed The Bible of the front page...for this...

>>5082765

it doesn't get better, op.

>>5082765
who cares you fucking cunt, go be a spergmelon somewhere else

>>5082769
>>5082771

Did I just get called a fedora tipping/spergmelon for laughing at you man-children?

Dude...

...dude.

>>5082776
the bible's the biggest fantasy of em all, you spergmelon

>>5082789
Oh enlightened one, please forgive my nativity.
I'm now a God-less humanist.


IM IN CONTROL OF THE UNIVERSE!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!

>>5082776
>>5082789
Please don't, I just wanted a thread to talk about Wheel of Time, not shit-post about religion/atheism.

>>5082798
settle down and go sperg out somewhere else about being skeletor or whatever the fuck you're trying to be.

>>5082799
shut up spergmelon, the series goes to hell and there's nothing more to talk about.

C'mon /lit/, I thought you loved genre fiction?

Does no one want to discuss Wheel of Time?

>>5082922
Seriously, this isn't /book/, it's /lit/...get your childish shit off my board.

>>5082928
could be worse man, could be a book of the new sun thread

>>5082761
OP I admire your courage in making it to N9.
I dropped WOT somewhere in the middle of the 3rd book.

>>5083543
T-thanks.

The first 6 are actually pretty good.

Did Sanderson do justice in finishing the series?

>>5082761
12,13,14 are pretty good, so just skip boring parts in 10-11 books.
Just finished series.

>>5084257
Yes and no. I think he did a pretty good job. 12 was among the best in WoT, 13 was sacrificed to make 12 good (it has serious structural issues), and 14... Well, it wasn't as good as I hoped. But at least we got the end.

>>5084598
This is my opinion exactly.

He certainly improved on the last of Jordan's books.

Finished series, and now iam very sad and hollow. What to do guys? Some good fantasy books please?

>>5082761
>Please, tell me it gets better.
it gets worse (CoT) and then it gets (a lot) better.

>What's the deal with Cadsuane?
Don't worry, Rand will deal with her accordingly

>Why did Robert Jordan decide to give Rand three lovers?
Jordan himself had some polygamious relations. Plus the fact he's ta'veren helps a lot I suppose.

I understand the subplots being a problem. I'm rereading it at the moment and it's far better than the first time round. Now when I forgot who someone is, I just go on the wiki as I can't be spoiled.

Personally I say go on, I really liked the ending novel (A Memory of Light). The Gathering Storm and Knife of Dreams were also preddy gud. Towers of Midnight was just... strange.

My book ratings after reread:
TEOTW: 7/10
TGH: 8/10
TDR: 8/10
TSR: 9/10 best
>New Spring (this is the best moment to read it): 7/10
TFoH: 8/10
Loc: 7/10

>>5085233
>LoC: 7/10

I personally found the ending with the asha'man made it at least an 8/10.

>>5082761

>Please, tell me it gets better.

Crossroads of Twilight is shit, just skim it. Last 3 books by Sanderson aren't very good either but at least shit gets done. I did not quite like how the Last Battle was portrayed in the last book, and the finale was... not disappointing but... just not satisfying.

What's the deal with Cadsuane? Does she actually help Rand or does she just keep calling him rude?

It's one of the few subplots that actually has a satisfying conclusion.

Why did Robert Jordan decide to give Rand three lovers?

http://forum.malazanempire.com/topic/21832-hateful-wheel-of-time-review/

I sympathize with your plight. I myself got fed up at Lord of Chaos. If it wasn't for its last chapter, I'd have dropped the series altogether.

>>5086012
That was an amazing review.

WHAT
THE FUCK

THEY CHANGED THE COVER ARTWORK?

>>5086012
have you read Malazan?

I read the first 1.5 books, it was good but eventually just became almost overwhelming, so many characters, so many battles, etc.

>>5087255
I have the books with original artwork, I'm not sure why these came out, but they're pretty good.

>>5087255

the ebooks have different covers.

OP, it gets better again with Knife of Dreams, and then Sanderson's following work made it even better. In fact, i loved his style so much I read The Way of Kings and now I'm halfway through Words of Radiance. I've yet to read the Mistborn novels.

>>5085325
Having Rand bring those bitch ass Aes Sedai to heel was orgasmic.

>>5087280
>orgasmic
Yes, it certainly was.

That's why Cadsuane is throwing a wrench in that enjoyment.

>>5087280
>Having Rand bring those bitch ass Aes Sedai to heel was orgasmic.
Yes it was good, the best parts in the books actually the Rand vs Aes Sedai.
Have some more fantasy books there we have pretty same opposition? The young coldblooded lad owns opinionated bitch asses?

>>5086012
Why are Malazan fans so anti-WoT ? In a lot of ways both books are very similar.

WoT is a more accessible version of Tolkien, but Tolkien is already a simplified version of the Norse Sagas, meaning that Jordan felt a need to dumb-down the accessible, which doesn't leave his book with much personality.

>>5088146
>Have some more fantasy books there we have pretty same opposition? The young coldblooded lad owns opinionated bitch asses?

The Sword of Truth series has the main character pretty much tell everyone to fuck off while he does what he thinks is right.
Although, only the first 3 books are worth a read, and even that's stretching it.

Nynaeve tugged her braid.

>>5090412
you forgot about the lace that bordered her neckline of her new emerald green dress that covered her ample bossom. while she thought of Lan and how he needs to be brought to heel.

>>5090920
*adjusts shawl nervously*

Where do I go after Wheel of Time, Malazan or Mistborn?

>>5082761
>Please, tell me it gets better.
It gets much better. The next book is easily the worst and you're in for a rough time, but Jordan makes a bit of a comeback with his final entry in the series, as if his imminent mortality caused him to actually cause some events to fucking happen.

Sanderson has mixed success, but book 12 is arguably the best book of the entire series. Probably the darkest. It's bizarre to experience genuine peril in this series.

The resolution of the whole Snakes and Foxes side of the mythology is one of my favorite things in the series and you have that to look forward to.

>>5090412
and folded her arms beneath her breasts

I actually just finished this about two weeks ago.

It's quite a mixed bag. There are many aspects to it that I loathe and many that I like, and a very few that I outright adore.

One thing that bears mentioning is the criticism of how abruptly it ends. I thought that there were some clever structural solutions to the whole 'retaking the Shire' anticlimax of Return of the King. There's actually quite a bit of this material in the last two books of Wheel of Time, but they occur as flash forwards or postulated futures. (Aviendha's trip to Rhuidean in book 13,eg; an unexpected delight and a needed echo of a treasured sequence from book 4).

>>5091688
Back to tEotW. The Wheel turns and turns, there is no beginning nor ending.

Ultimate ranking:
tSR
tFoH
tGS
TGH
tDR
KoD
aMoL
LoC
ToM
tEotW
WH
aCoS
PoD
CoT

Rand dealing with Cadsuane (in the lodge after that fun incident) is easily in my top 10 favourite scenes in the books. If you hate her then it's worth reading on just to see that.

>>5093180
But there is AN ending.

Power rankings of satisfying scenes; spoilers a-fucking-bound:

1. Rand frightening Cadsuane
2. Rand marching into the White Tower and treating Egwene like the thundercunt that she is
3. DUMAIS WELL... ALL OF IT... ESPECIALLY "KNEEL OR YOU WILL BE KNELT."
4. Moiraine's return - mostly Rand's reaction
5. Egwene dying
6. Rand letting Min/Avi/Elayne bond him and their reaction to the fact that he was basically a giant ball of suffering
7. That time that Alanna bound Rand against his Will and Verin shitting herself over how strong he had become
8. That time that Alanna bound Rand against his will and he was pissed off and scared the shit out of all the young girls from the Two Rivers
9. Rand introducing Min to his father
10. When Rand pardons Cadsuane and is all like "Well technically I'm like 250 years old, so I'm not really the younger of the two of us."

>>5093330
Just now i realized, why i love WoT.
Guys have some more fantasy books there opinionated powerfull bitches get theirs asses kicked by protagonist?

>>5093349
>>5093349
It doesn't really carry over. The only reason that the men>women scenes in WoT are so awesome is because the women are such turbo bitches the whole time. It's not even a case of reversed gender roles, the women are just plain awful to the men.

So unless another series recreates that hatred for female characters, men>women scenes won't really satisfy.

>>5093359
Well ye, whats what i want the books with bitches and some satisfying scenes. So there is no more such books?

>>5093330
See, I have utterly different investments than most people in this thread.

For me the most satisfying moment in the book is when Verin reveals herself to be a deep cover darkfriend. Not one fucking person in the entire canon did as much for the light as she, and you guys care more about the scene where the whiny emo farmboy proved them right about being a sullen cock.

>all this Cadsuane hate

Thing is, she was RIGHT, and Rand learning to 'laugh and cry' (her entire mission in the series) ends up being the Rand's crucial character arc.

The scene where he tells her he's going to execute her is NOT supposed to be a triumphant scene, it means that Rand has gone down the bad path and is basically doomed, has become a conduit for the Dark One's True Power.

It's only through Cadsuane's machinations in employing Tam's aid that Rand eventually comes back around and has his epiphany, and becomes this gentle sage that makes flowers bloom in his wake.

Face it, Cadsuane saved Middle Earth.

>>5093425
I didn't say it was triumphant, I said it was satisfying.

The thing about the people around him being right is that none of them do a good job of sympathising with the things he's struggling with. There's a lot of "oh poor you, now come and do what I say before you are sent to the slaughter" and Cads is basically the worst offender.

Everyone wants a piece of him for their own machinations and it's basically they're fault that he hit his lowest point in the first place.

>>5093359
Disagree. WoT is different from all other fantasy because of the taint. They live in a world where every man with Power goes mad. This has changed the whole gender balance. A lot of hatred towards WoT is by people who don't want to go with this. It's normal for women to be bitches, as they used to have a monopoly on Power for over 3000 years, and now that balance is being changed by Rand and his Asha'man.

>>5093489
No shit. I know WHY the women are the way they are, doesn't make me dislike them any less.

>>5093330
OP here, so I only have scenes up to book 9(I already spoiled most of these events anyway), but I would add:

al'Thor! The Dragon! al'Thor! The Dragon! after Rand names himself, and the Rhuidean scene where he travels through time and learns the history of the Aiel.

>>5093820
In terms of satisfying scenes from around the Aiel Waste, the part where Couladin is trying to fuck shit up and the chiefs hear what Rand has to say about the things he saw and they realise that he really is He Who Comes With The Dawn and not Couladin who is still off spouting bull shit.

>>5093831
I'd even say when Rand uses Callandor when the taint is almost too much for him and he fucks up his own troops more than the Seanchan and Davram has to knock his ass to the ground, et he still drives the Seanchan back to Ebou Dar is great.

It showed how bad Rand was truly getting at that point, but how powerful he is that the Seanchan still feared him even after he was blowing up his own men.

>>5093834
It never really occurred to me that Rand was actually going mad until Verin confirms that he is.

I mean, he hears a voice in his head that sometimes tries to seize control of the Power and it never really felt like Rand had lost it. I mean, he was the hero, the good guy, the protagonist, surely he had some kind of plot armour to protect him from the taint. But no. It's all there.

>>5093856
>tfw there will never be an adaption so we can see all this play out on screen

Just finnished the Great Hunt.
I like it so far exept for Egewne and Nynaeve. Very annoing bitches and frankly unnececary for the plot.
I'm seriously thinking to skip all their parts for the rest of the series
Would I miss anything?

>>5094206
You would miss a bad fantasy series if you stopped now.

>>5094206
Yes.

Nyn gets better though. To the point where she is one of the best characters.

Egwene gets worse. Holy fuck does that high and mighty witch get worse. She also gets a bigger role to play and skipping her parts cuts out one of the major plots of the series.

>>5094206
OP here, again, and I felt the same way.

Egwene becomes too big to skip, and Nyn gets better, especially by books 7-8.

Moiraine is still the only female who I have never once hated though. At least her and Min too.

>>5095333
>Egwene gets worse
You don't think her undergoing torture under Elaida's reign was one of the more compelling sequences in the story?

>>5095747
That was compelling only by comparison to how she normally is. Egwene is a self-righteous douche face and the way she suffered under Elaida just meant that for once she wasn't the cuntiest person in the story arc.

Maybe I'm blinded by my hate for her though. You see, Rand was always my favourite character, and Egwene treats him the worst of all while pretending that she is the patron saint of Dragons everywhere. "No, it's bad that Elaida tried to capture him! But... we're going to have to capture him because he might be dangerous."

In my mind the way she treats Rand is born of jealousy because she manages to be the Amyrlin seat and STILL isn't the most powerful person in the world.

>>5096064
>Rand was always my favourite character
How could anybody seriously prefer Rand to Mat?

>>5096064
Your hatred for Egwene seems to have played tricks on your memory.

> But... we're going to have to capture him because he might be dangerous.
She never endeavors, plans, or suggests that they should capture or subdue Rand, and argues against it in numerous instances.

The stuff she actually holds against Rand:
1) Wanting to break the seals (but she comes around with some mediation from Moiraine)
2) Taim ordering the Ashaman to bond Aes Sedai (fair; Rand did leave this highly suspicious asshole in charge of the black tower while he waltzed around being a moody brooder)
3) Conquering a bunch of countries

Point 3 is the only one I really hold against her, I mean she should know what the prophecies say right?

Anyway, one of the primary themes of WoT is stubbornness causing allies to work at cross purposes, and virtually every character is guilty of this. Egwene isn't a particularly egregious offender in this regard is she?

Did Brandon Sanderson do a good job finishing the series?

I'm up to Crossroads of Twilight and I'm loving it so far. Does Sanderson continue at this level of quality?

>>5096310
You'll probably hate it, Sanderson abandons the endless discussion of necklines and standlamps and actually showcases events rather than recycling the same mannerisms and physical details over and over.

>>5096310
>Crossroads of Twilight
Universally agreed to be the worst of the series, or so I thought until you came along.

I'm interested to hear from someone who actually likes the 7 through 10 range of books. What's the appeal?

>>5096302
>2) Taim ordering the Ashaman to bond Aes Sedai
Everyone seeming forgot what this 51 Aes Sedai was send to destroy Dark Tower and kill all Ashaman so the bond them was even kinda weak respond to this.

>>5096302
My memory is fine. I know she never outright condoned trying to hold Rand and as I recall she even berated Elaida for that particular bit of stupidity while she was being held captive. But. There's a but. She wants Rand to come to the White Tower and accept their guidance. Elaida was about as far misguided as a person could get, but that was about what her plan amounted to. Bring Rand to the Tower and hold him, send him out on a short leash to check things off the list of prophecies, then tuck him away and assure the world that the Aes Sedai had him in hand.

As far as I remember on several occasions Egwene wants to guide Rand, and you can bet that she doesn't mean just sitting around and offering him counsel when he asks for it. She wants to be in on his plans so that she can meddle and bring them in line with what she/her faction wants.

>>5096276
Rand really appeals to me. I don't know why specifically. I sympathise with him better than any of the other characters because he's just a guy doing his best to keep his head above water. And personally I found Mat to be a bit boring. His sense of humour and antics were always good to read, but for long tracts of time he tended to do very little and it was just a travelogue where nothing happened.

Having read the prequel first, I'm nearly finished with EoTW. I know I'm ways off, but should I just skip book Crossroads of Twilight altogether? Reviews on Amazon say absolutely nothing happens

>>5091688
Malazan. Or First Law. Only the first Mistborn book is any good.

>>5096459
>send to destroy Dark Tower and kill all Ashaman
Are you kidding? This was never the plan.

>>5093330
1. "Kneel or be knelt."
2. Moiraine's return, even though it's somewhat sullied by awful Sanderson "humor" of random people smacking the king of Murandy with magic.
3. Tam laying down the law to Cadsuane.
4. The culmination of Verin's master plan
5. "They have caged Shadowkiller." "We come."
6. Galad's duel with Valda
7. "Listen here, you daughter of the sands..."
8. "We are not weapons, we are men."
9. Mat and Tuon riding into the camp of the Band.
10. Logain finally getting his glory.

Also I very nearly cried bitch tears to Gawyn and Galad's last conversation.

>>5096410
I think that's a bit of grandfathered-in criticism, a memetic legacy of the backlash Crossroads of Twilight got from Wheel of Time readers who waited three years for a sequel to Winter's Heart (wherein one of the most momentous events in the series occurs) and got a novel that essentially exists only to synch up all the various timelines of the spaghetti plot.

Consumed in absence of massive frustration and disappointment, it isn't so bad and is adequately entertaining despite the lack of action.

>>5094206
But the chapters in Falme when Egwene is collared is by far the best part of the second book.

>>5097922
No. It's really not that bad at all. The entire book is the same two days or so from the perspective of basically every ongoing plot line, but there's a whole lot of things that happen and it isn't close to as dull as the fanbase hivemind wants you to think.

This guy >>5098357 has its number.

>>5098357
>>5098385
I strongly disagree. Indeed, for me the book WAS "Consumed in absence of massive frustration and disappointment" since I read the series continuously after everything was published. There was no external baggage that contributed to my sense of the book's mediocrity.

In my opinion Jordan ran on autopilot for much of the series, regurgitating stock phrases (is EVERY location furnished with 'gilded stand lamps'?). He rarely seems to take any joy in the prose, he has no capacity to make decisions about what to describe or what to leave out, so he just describes EVERYTHING and is lauded by his "fanbase hivemind" as having this fantastic attention to detail, but who cares if it's the same twelve details cycled endlessly?

This is a huge problem for a series where very little happens that is unexpected; that is to say, mediocre prose can be excused or ignored when outrageous plot developments are afoot, but there's not a great deal of this happening throughout most of Wheel of Time.

>>5096754
>As far as I remember on several occasions Egwene wants to guide Rand, and you can bet that she doesn't mean just sitting around and offering him counsel when he asks for it. She wants to be in on his plans so that she can meddle and bring them in line with what she/her faction wants.

The scene you want occurs in chapter 16 of The Gathering Storm, where Egwene is interviewed about how she would have approached the issue of the Dragon Reborn differently from how Elaida did.

Reading it, I see little justification for the grudge you seem to hold against her. Rand assumes that every Aes Sedai wants him to dance on strings, but Egwene is perhaps the ONLY one who argues for earning Rand's trust rather than coercing, kidnapping, manipulating, bullying, etc. She is frankly the last female character in WoT for whom you should reserve the feelings for that you do.

>>5098425
>(is EVERY location furnished with 'gilded stand lamps'?). He rarely seems to take any joy in the prose, he has no capacity to make decisions about what to describe or what to leave out, so he just describes EVERYTHING and is lauded by his "fanbase hivemind" as having this fantastic attention to detail, but who cares if it's the same twelve details cycled endlessly?

Jesus, this. I'm fine with the constant tugging of braids, crossing of arms beneath breasts, and threathened boxing of ears, but if you're going to describe the cut and bodices of a gorillion dresses, the least you can do is describe them well instead of using a variation of the same three or four phrases for each and every one.

The same with all the "richly furnished chambers."

Anyway I thought CoT was pretty cool with everyone reacting to the cleansing of the Taint and all. I feel like it jump-started a lot of the plot lines that had been meandering for a good while, and led into all the things that would make Knife of Dreams my favorite book of the series.

I read all WoT books this year and I disliked it from the first to the last. I suppose some could be called mediocre in the context of the series, but after I stepped out of this cesspool and read some Dazai and Pandora's Star (which wasn't stellar, but infinitely superior to WoT in every way) and American Psycho I realized just how terrible the last months had been and how awful pretty much every book from this series was by normal standards.
Bad prose, bad world building, bad characterization, bad story. There are no redeeming qualities. What started as a mediocre Lord of the Ring rip off turned into the biggest turd I have ever read.

I started just skimming chapters and skipped entire characters and missed nothing. The entire 200 pages worth of Elayne's throne bullshit amounted to absolutely nothing. The endless descriptions of clothes and never changing mannerisms were mind boggling, and I say that as someone who immensely enjoyed American Psycho.

>>5098483
Even cleansing the taint had barely any consequences. It might as well not have happened for the impact it had on the plot. The Cunt Sedai simply did not believe it and consequently completely ignored it and the men's craziness was still a plot point.

>>5098502
>The entire 200 pages worth
I missed a 0, that were at least 2000 pages.

>>5098502
>I read all WoT books this year and I disliked it from the first to the last

Du you have OCD? Why would anyone do that? Sure, I read all of the Hunger Games even though it was shit, but that's only some 900 pages and I was stuck on a train for 90% of it.

>>5098531
I thought it would get better, and eventually I just wanted to see how it ends.
I had a lot of idle time at work (>3hours per day).

>>5098351
>5. "They have caged Shadowkiller." "We come."

Yes, holy shit. I got chills man.

So many good scenes in this series.

>>5098351
>7. "Listen here, you daughter of the sands..."

Yeah, that was awesome. Mat singlehandedly shut up a whole room of women determined to talk over him.

I thought the scene where Semirhage collars Rand and makes him strangle Min is one of the most compelling, and easily the most terrifying, scene in the entire series.

>>5102785
>only have read the first 9 so far
>spoil myself anyway
Jesus Christ, that sounds horrendous for both Rand and Min

I hope Rand fucking destroyed Semirhage after.

>identified with perrin the most
>liked his pov's second only to rand's
>he gets married
>can no longer relate

>>5091688
Malazan.

I'm on Deadhouse gates and I like it a lot better than WoT.

Sort of throws you into this massive world and massive war with many different races and magic powers without explaining much. I sort of like that but sometimes it gets a little confusing.

A common criticism is that there are too many characters and too many plot lines. I like that though so if you do too, Malazan is for you.


>mfw Adjunct Lorn

>>5103673
You have no idea.

>>5103692
I made a Mat one too.
I'd make Rand, but he doesn't have anything unique about his face area, except maybe his red hair.

Didn't read Wheel of time yet but should I even bother reading it? Is it better than ASOIAF? I'm about half way through A feast for crows and yeah... probably the worst book in the series so far.
So yeah is wheel of time worth a read?

>>5104004
Ayn Rand was a woman.

>>5104219
It has more fantasy elements, it's a typical "Hero-saves-the-world", story for its main plot(not that that's bad), it's longer and completed.
The writing becomes tedious about half-way, but picks up again towards the end.

It's more like a travelogue at first, but the characters that are given a good amount of time you will grow to love/hate.

I'd say read the first one at least and go from there.

Other anons have put their "top moments" list in this thread, and there are still a whole bunch they didn't mention. You'll definitely find scenes that make you feel great.

IMO WoT>ASOIAF (we'll see if that changes if GRRM finally fucking finishes the series.)

>>5104219

The first three books of ASOIAF are better than pretty much everything out there. ASOIAF is fantasy written for adults, whereas I think WoT is written for young adults.

As far as fantasy there's better stuff out there. I would go for Chronicles of Amber or The Lies of Locke Lamora.

>>5104240
>I would go for Chronicles of Amber or The Lies of Locke Lamora.
You have terrible, terrible, terrible taste.

>>5082761

Every time someone posts a Wheel of Time thread on /lit/, half the people claim it's solid fantasy and the other half claim that it starts at mediocrity and then devolves into complete shit. It's cost you many, many hours but now you know which half is retarded.

So, Robert Jordan stated that:

Lan>Rand>Galad>Gawyn in terms of Swordsmanship.

Who would be the most powerful One Power users?
Male/female together or separate doesn't matter.

>>5104281

Sure, but give me something better. I feel like you're going to tell me to read the Sword of Truth or some bullshit.

Seriously, what's wrong with Zelazny?

>>5084569
11 was great though. The series definitely takes a nose dive in books 8 and 10 though. 9 was decent enough.

One thing I love about the series is how a lot of the elements that frustrated me to no end actually make a lot of sense given the world RJ has crafted.

Things like all the women in the series being massive twats got a lot more interesting when I realized that after a culture that has spent thousands of years going on male witch hunts because men can and did totally fuck up the entire world, sexism against men would be reasonable to develop.


>>5104343
Rand easily beats any one person in pure one power, and probably any group of people after he goes buddha saiyan (but I suspect that isn't the One Power being used, more just him being able to control the ta'veren ness).

>>5104407
>Sure, but give me something better.
Well almost anything would be better than Lies of Locke Lamora, so I guess I'll throw Earthsea and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. Gormenghast is

>Seriously, what's wrong with Zelazny?
Not that much, I was mostly criticizing you for LoLL, but Chronicles of Amber really highlights the fact that Zelazny can't write. I want to say I got through the first 5 or 6 books of CoA, but by then Zelazney's prose had just worn me down so much I couldn't keep going. All the characters are automatons, the prose has no flow, all the dialogue is stilted as all hell. It's an intriguing world, at least in the beginning, but that isn't really enough to save it. The decline is accelerated when you realize after the first couple of volumes that the multiverse exists so that Zelazney can just throw in whatever shit he wants without having to explain it, like a world where huge boulders are randomly orbiting, or machine guns with silver bullets, or sentient magic computers, or underwater cities, or whatever. Lots of the choices seem arbitrary (the unicorn chooses that brother as the king why, exactly?) and it never felt like Zelazney had anything but the sketchiest idea of where everything was going.

>>5104538
>Gormenghast is
good too, to complete my thought.

>>5104343
Rand. It's canon that the Dragon was always the strongest male channeler spun out by the Wheel. And in terms of pure muscle in the One Power men>women.

Nyn and Lanfear were on par for strongest female (except for the one Sea Folk apprentice girl who is younger than Nyn but already as strong as her and predicted to be even stronger in the end), and they, as women, are a step below the male Forsaken. How big of a step that is is debatable.

Egwene, Elayne, and Avi were all a step below Nyn.

Probably the best example of outright strengths is the cleansing the taint scene. Rand uses Nyn as his female channeler and she passes out before he is done.

In terms of Rand vs the Forsaken for strength, they would be 'on par' but he IS the strongest, perhaps only by a small margin. Taim and Logain are on that same level too.

As a side note I didn't think Gawyn was that great. Pretty much all his victories were luck. Whereas Galad had the pure skill, Gawyn just didn't.

>>5104343
>Lan>Rand>Galad>Gawyn in terms of Swordsmanship.
That guy from New Spring is better than Lan though.

>>5098351
>"They have caged Shadowkiller." "We come."
Awesome moment indeed.

>>5104343
>Who would be the most powerful One Power users?
>Male/female together or separate doesn't matter.
RJ had a list, for Saidin and Saidar users, to keep track of it all (because of the whole dynamic in the white tower where you have to pay respect to someone with more power). It will be released in the Encyclopedia eventually. Fans have tried (quite decently) to recreate it:
http://13depository.blogspot.be/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

For Saidin users a similar lists exists, but I can't find it right now. Rand is on top (together with Moridin) as they are as strong as possible. They've basically maxed out on the potential anybody could possibly have.

That was Lan 20 years ago tho

Why is Nyn such a qt?

Rand picked the wrong girl(s).

>>5104219
It's a very standard "chosen one fights against ancient evil and saves the world" story. Plays all the fantasy cliches straight. If you are into that stuff, give it a chance. I hated it.

>>5098502
>I read all WoT books this year and I disliked it from the first to the last.

Autism: The Post

>>5104846
>Plays all the fantasy cliches straight
Are you implying WoT didn't start a lot of those classic fantasy clichés?

Also, how based was Loial
>"None will pass while I live, Perrin. Not Myrddraal or the Dark One himself."
>Protecting all those women and children in the Stone of Tear, all night long, all alone, against trollocs and Myrddraal
>Sealing the Waygate of Manetheren, then outrunning >1000 trollocs for 4 days and nights while carrying Gaul
>Treesinging while fighting, make plants grow on the weapons and armor of the trollocs

>>5104964
>Are you implying WoT didn't start a lot of those classic fantasy clichés?
I think that's exactly what he was implying, and he'd be completely correct to do so.

>>5104964
You obviously haven't read a lot of 18th and 19th Century and early, early 20th century fantasy. Tolkien wasn't just writing in a vacuum, you know.

>>5105479
>You obviously haven't read a lot of 18th and 19th Century and early, early 20th century fantasy.

>>5104885
>Autism: The Post
That doesn't even make sense. If anything, the Wheel of Time books are specifically designed to appeal to autistics, with all the factions, nations, minor characters, and detailed clothing descriptions. You, in fact, sound like an autistic person, albeit a butthurt one.

>>5104885
Depression could have something to do with me finishing this shit.

>>5105499
I think he was commenting on me reading 15000 pages of trash I didn't like instead of just quitting halfway through, not on my rating of the series.

>>5105499
It's autistic to read 14 huge fantasy books of a series you dislike. A normal person would read one, decide they didn't like the series, and go do something else.

>>5105852
>you cant judge the series if you havent read it/skipped parts/didnt give it a chance!
>omg u stupid fagt I cant believe you read them all even though you didnt like them!

Some people are just sadists.

>>5104544

Locke Lamora was *fun*. I'm not going for literary quality here. If I was doing that it'd be Gormenghast and Book of the New Sun or something. Maybe Jack Vance, if you can call that fantasy.

I'm not assuming someone reading WoT is really looking for literary quality, and most fantasy tropes bore the hell out of me. I found Malazan, for instance, to be unreadable. Liked Robin Hobb, though.

I think sci-fi is more where it's at for this kind of stuff. Big Charles Stross and Iain Banks fan.

>>5106293
Like you found Malazan unreadable, I found Locke Lamora unreadable.

>>5104554
>except for the one Sea Folk apprentice girl who is younger than Nyn but already as strong as her and predicted to be even stronger in the end

There's one other female who comes into play when Egwene removes the age limitations for becoming a novice, who is said to be stronger than Nynaeve as well but is then never referred to again.

>>5106660
>"Someone robbed the initiates of Perelandro? The boys who help that blind priest?" A florid man with an overachieving belly and an entire squad of spare chins wobbled up, with a walking stick in one hand and a wicked-looking hatchet in the other. "Pissant ratfucker bastards!"

If the prose in Locke Lamora is unreadable, what does that make Jordan/Sanderson?

>>5107164
>If the prose in Locke Lamora is unreadable, what does that make Jordan/Sanderson?

Sanderson is also very bad.

Jordan's qualities are subtle and easy to miss. I mean, he's not a master or anything, but he's much more serviceable than either Sanderson or, what's his name, fella who wrote Lies of Locke Lamora, can't recall. Sorry if you're reading this, fella.

>>5107164
Jordan and Sanderson are also terrible, but at least their prolix cliche fantasy shit isn't also dripping with the sense that the author thought he was writing the most clever and edgy genre fiction ever put on paper.

>>5107228
>most clever and edgy
To me it just read as somebody who was a fan of Neal Stephenson and wanted to riff on his style of anachronistic humor. I didn't get the sense he was 'trying hard' or whatever. I started Gentleman Bastards immediately after finishing Wheel of Time and the sense of relief to read something written in a flowing tongue was acute.

>>5107208
>he's not a master or anything, but he's much more serviceable
I think he's probably the worst I've ever read in terms of simple prose. I would call him anything but serviceable; his addiction to subordinate clauses is so tedious to navigate that you begin to dread each new sentence.

>>5082761
>Faile
>Morgase
Hahaha what
I mean I don't read these books, but seriously?!

Jordan's writing success derives more from the richness of imagination and grand ambition of his storytelling. That's why this thread is funny. All the criticism herein may sink lesser authors who rely on brilliant and dexterous prose and poetry to color their words, but it really misses the mark when applied to Jordan. He isn't a great author because of his words or his grammar. He is a great author because of his conceived vision.

Perhaps when more aspiring writers realize this they will take a step to becoming better writers rather than better editors.

>>5107323
>He is a great author because of his conceived vision.
A) even the most deluded Robert Jordan fan can't believe he's a "great author," except maybe in the sadly underdeveloped fantasy genre.
B) his conceived vision is a cliché through and through, it's the chosen one fighting the great evil, "The Dark One," with a bunch of sexual wish fulfillment thrown in.

Shit, I just realized that there's a 95% chance I'm responding to a troll post. 6/10, got me to respond and at first blush sounded legit.

>>5104343
I find that swordsmanship ranking strange. I believe it's stated that the warder Slate beat Lan two out of seven in a duel and Gawyn completely owns Slate and another warder at the same time. That leads me to believe that Gawyn could have beaten Lan at least four out of seven. To me Gawyn had the most pure skill, but was severely lacking in the mental/experience game.

>>5107323
>Jordan's writing success derives more from the richness of imagination and grand ambition of his storytelling.

Really? I always thought these types of stories are only successful because there are so many characters every reader is bound to find at least one compelling or interesting-- that, or the sheer number of characters appeal to those shipper fangirls.

>>5107491
>>5107356
Yeah, I completely love Jordan and have written way too many words defending him on /lit/ and even I think that dude's kinda crazy

>>5107323
>richness of imagination and grand ambition of his storytelling
>basically 99% similar to LOTR

kekkekek

>>5104814

There's that one scene in EotW when Nynaeve catches up to the group in Baerlon and she and Rand have a pretty cute scene. After reading it again, it made me think something could have potentially developed between them.

>>5107303
I don't get it

>>5107491
>so many characters
The statistic of named / speaking roles in WoT may be high but the incidence of actual characters is quite low. Of the innumerable Aes Sedai, how many would you actually consider to have distinct personalities? Even heavyweights like Cadsuane suffer from the-same-but-moreso syndrome.

It seems like Jordan apologists mistake brute force repetition for detailed world building.

>>5093330
>>5098351
Missing from these lists, I think, is the "half the light of the world" exchange Mat makes. Legendary scene.

>>5107482
I haven't read New Spring, but I assume that's when Slate beats Lan? That's 20 years prior to Wheel of Time.

The power rankings I mentioned refer to the end of the series.

If you remember, Lan is the one who killed Damodred

>>5107950
After Gawyn and Galad softened him up.

Did Jordan ever confirm/deny whether or not it was Tam who killed Laman? That makes him pretty badass if he did. Run away from home, join and army, end a war.

>>5107147
The old lady right? I remember that now.

>>5107303
'Faile' is technically a word in another language and not the stupid bitch's real name. But honestly there are worse fantasy names out there to pick on.

>>5107565
Maybe if they had met later in the books but since they grew up a few years apart there's no way she'd really be able to stop being his older sister/mother figure. Besides, Lan is kind of a perfect fit for her. They are opposites that slot together nicely.

>>5107950
During the duel, Lan does note that Demandred is in fact the more skilled swordsman; Lan is able to win the duel because his death wish allows him to employ the Sheathing the Sword maneuver.

>>5108292
>Lan is kind of a perfect fit for her.
The fact that their Seafolk marriage entitles Nynaeve to boss him around in public, but Lan gets to dom the shit out of her in the bedroom, was one of my favorite details of the series.

Who would you pick if you were in this world:

Min, Aveindha, or Elayne?

No pulling a Rand, and saying all 3, or alternatively: fuck, marry, kill.

>>5108308
Min. Every time.

She's the only character in the books who is willing to trust Rand no matter how batshit insane he is looking to everyone else, and she doesn't have any sinister ulterior motives.

But,
>fuck Avi
>kill Elayne
>marry Min

>>5108320
Literally, what I would pick.

>>5108320
No brainer, I can't imagine anyone choosing differently.

>>5107646
>fail
>more gas

>>5107208

But Sanderson isn't bad. There isn't anything about Sanderson's prose that makes me cringe. His writing aims to be invisible so you only pay attention to the plot. Invisible writing is boring prose, but that isn't bad prose. Lovecraft, for example, has bad prose.

>>5108320
>>5108363
>>5108419
Holy shit really? Min is absolutely the most vapid piece of shit in the entire series; her ONLY trait is her slavish devotion to Rand.

Kill her, fuck the Aiel, and marry the foul mouthed queen with big tits.

I thought hating Min was standard operating procedure, you guys are from another planet

>>5108320
>She's the only character in the books who is willing to trust Rand no matter how batshit insane he is looking to everyone else, and she doesn't have any sinister ulterior motives.
When does Aviendha ever distrust him, and what were her other motives?

>>5108614
I'm not done with the series yet, but...

Aveindha spent most of her time with Rand telling him he'll never get to be with her again, and kept telling him Elayne is for him, which at the time, was fucking Rand in the head.

Elayne is just a fucking bitch. She writes two letters to Rand, one saying she loves him, the other saying he should go fuck himself. Then she acts like an ungrateful little shit when she finally reaches Camelyn (even though without Rand threatening everyone constantly, she wouldn't have shit to come back to), and he gives he fucking Cairhein. Then she goes around spreading rumors that his kids are some other jabroni's. (I know it was for safety, but still, that irks me the wrong way.)

Min follows Rand around and understands the shit he's going through and seems to be the only one who gives a fuck. If I remember correctly, she's the only one to comment on how fucked up Rand is when they all bond him.
Honestly though, I wish their "love" was explained a bit better.

Elayne and him just kinda happen after Tear, and they're separated for a long ass time.

Aveindha is probably the most reasonable since they spent so much time so close to one another. (and of course the whole him saving her life).

Min is the farthest one out there, "I had a vision", oh, I guess that's why you love him, and travelled so far to be with him, without even knowing him.

>>5108632
Avi doesn't show much in the way of distrust, but she has the interests of the Aiel in mind. She's perfectly entitled to of course, but she very much follows Elayne's example of assuming that everything Rand will do or is doing is going to be harmful.

Is Mat king Aemon reborn? Or was it the old blood singing giving him memories before rhoideian

>>5108651
>she very much follows Elayne's example of assuming that everything Rand will do or is doing is going to be harmful.
I think of the three she's the most enthusiastic about his Dragonhood, eg she's an Aiel and the notion of him breaking the world doesn't worry her in the slightest. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that she sides with Elayne in worrying about the results of his actions.

>>5108641
>Min is the farthest one out there, "I had a vision", oh, I guess that's why you love him, and travelled so far to be with him, without even knowing him.
Yeah this is basically my problem with Min; at first she has the faintest sketch of a personality of being a tomboy with mysterious powers, when all of a sudden she decides that her whole purpose in life is to realize her destiny of loving Rand. The whole self fulfilling prophecy gambit was done much more elegantly with Mat/Tuon

>>5108752
I would pick Min but I agree that her attraction to him is very thin. Rand spends time with both Elayne and Avi, but Min meets him once and convinces herself that she's in love with him so that when she finally catches up with him she's already head-over-heels. It's one of those The Matrix moments, where Neo breaks the vase because the Oracle told him to be careful not to break it. Min is in love with him because she's convinced her visions are always right and spent so much time obsessing over that fact.

>>5108740
I think that Mat's old blood is just old blood, RJ probably would have left more clues if he was Aemon spun out again.

Why are the ebook covers so far superior to the original covers?

>>5108796
The originals were your typical fantasy artwork from the 90's.

I believe I saw the ebook versions in paperback at Barnes & Nobel's the other day, wish I got those instead.

I do agree the ebooks are superior.

>>5108292
>The old lady right? I remember that now.
Sharina.
She is already mentioned in book 1 or 2, when Nynaeve goes through her ter'angreal test in the White Tower. She lives happily ever after with Lan and something goes amiss, and Lan asks is he should call Sharina Sedai.

>>5108292
>Tam who killed Laman
No, it were Aiel? It is never said Laman had a heron mark. I also doubt a blademaster would have a sword with so many jewels set in it.

Will post some amazing artwork for the series' best scene now, made by Ian McKay

>>5109449

>>5109455

>>5109461

>>5109466

>>5109468

>>5109471

>>5109475

>>5109479

>>5109482

>>5109489

>>5109492

>>5109493

>>5109495

>>5109498

>>5109500

>>5109503

>>5109449
The Aiel didn't kill Laman. They were presented with his sword as proof of his death and the retreated to the Wastes. I don't know if it says whether or not Laman was a blademaster, but if he was, it's pretty likely that his gem-crusted sword was for show and not for fighting.

>>5109511
Really evocative stuff, loved it

>>5109526
Ofc they did. They took the sword instead of his head because it woudnt last all the way home.

Anyone else get bummed out when Asmodean died?

I thought he would be a cool character to have around for a lot longer.

welp

>>5110708
Damn, that's certainly quicker than what actually happened.

>tfw the Tinkers never found their song

>>5090920
>>5090929

*spanking intensifies*

>>5110799

Didn't Rand find the song? I seem to recall him walking down from Dragonmount after destroying the Choedan Kal, humming, with trees spinging forth.{/spoiler]

>>5104343
Rand > Lanfear > Ishamael > that damane who hangs around Cadsuane and for some reason is super strong but it never pays off in any way at all, Olivia? > Nyaneve > pretty much the rest of the Forsaken > Egwene > Aviendha > most of the newest generation of Aes Sedai > Logain = Taim > Asmodean

I think it's stated somewhere that Balthamel has the most potential strength out of any male channeler in the story, but is lazy and never really sought to realize it.

>>5111245
Yeah, he sang the song before the meeting at Merrilor and made those massive trees grow.

I don't think he ever gave it to the Tuatha'an though.

>>5110708
>why didn't he write this version

>>5110708
Is there more?

Was this 4-way love shit originally planned between Rand and his 3 bitches?

>>5093902
Oh god, if there was a GoT–esque WoT series... Fuck man, too bad that will never happen.

>>5112295
he did though, I mean there are obviously more details but it never deviated from that basic plan

>>5112363
Really, I think that more than anything, WoT would fit as an animated series. There's just too much "people standing around having mental sturggles to kill each other with magic" to work in live action.

Also, wouldn't have to cut as much due to budgetary constraints.

>>5112493
I mention this every chance I get: you would need to change very little to adapt this as an anime series. Think about how well the visual vocabulary associated with anime applies to virtually every aspect of WoT, the histrionics, the long-suffering forbearances, power level escalations, preludes to confrontations that distend endlessly, and on and on.

>>5112648
Apparently a jap company wanted to produce the first three books way back when but RJ turned them down because they didn't want to adapt the rest of the series.

But I've done some thinking on it, and even if you cut the shit out of the books and pare it back (which the fans would whinge about) it's still somewhere between 8 and 10 seasons of a TV show, more than that in movies, and impossible to fund either way.

Cartoon/anime is basically the only feasible option.

I mean, can you imagine them picking early 20s characters to play the three boys, then when 2 years have passed in-world, they boys are now early 30s, greying and balding already, as they finally defeat the bad guys?

>>5112768
My preferences would go:

television series>movie series>cartoon/anime

But, at this point I'll take whatever, and cartoon/anime is probably the only way to have everything it needs, and to maintain age continuity like you mentioned.

>bands have written songs about the Wheel of Time series

This pleases me

>>5112967
How many of those are speed metal?

>>5112976
All, except an album that came out in 1999(?) that's more of "classical fantasy" sounding.

I enjoyed the first book overall, though it had some really slow parts. Book 2 started off really good, then just sort of got really dull. I ended up just stopping somewhere in the middle. Got busy, reading other things, and kind of forgot about it.

I got really fed up when Rand met a woman who was so attractive everyone liked her and it was totally not suspicious that she happened to be lost in this alternate dimension Rand accidentally came into. I assume she has some sort of magic or shit, but the way Rand and everyone obsessed over her was really driving me crazy.

Now every time I think of picking it back up, I see people complaining about how half the books are really terrible and it turns me off from touching it.

>>5113190
It's a mixture of magic, her being evil as shit, and Rand et al being raised to always be subservient to women.

You should read the first three books. If you don't feel compelled to read on after that then they make a fine stopping point.

>>5093330
>Rand managing to transport everyone to Rhuiedean (fucked if I can be bothered looking up how to spell it) with the Way Stone, then telling Moiraine to fuck off when she tries to delve him and find out if he's hurt

>>5082761
it only gets worse.

Stop now before its too late

>>5085007
Actually, Sanderson's The Way of Kings is a pretty good series so far

>>5096400

>>5113280
Allrdy readed. And yep pretty good series but not as good as WoT by me.

>>5082769

Completely off-topic but goddamn that gif makes me rage everytime I see it. The motherfucker isn't even tipping his fedora, he's just nodding and grabbing the bill like he's fucking scared to move the hat slightly on his head. These are the motherfuckers that give the fedora a bad name, they don't know how to wear it, they are always tipping like they are Indiana Goddamn Jones, and when they do attempt to tip they can't even do it properly. Fuck...just, FUCK!

>>5111258
this is wrong on so many levels. Ishamael=Moridin=Rand. But Ishamael was too crazy, so he lost to untrained Rand. And Moridin/Rand needed their connection so they could not yet kill eachother.

Lanfear was weaker than most male forsaken in raw power, even though she had a small angreal that she used almost ALWAYS to hide her true potential. But, as stated countless times in the books, raw power isn't everything. SO Lanfear could stand toe to toe with most Forsaken, but no way Ishamael/Moridin.

Alivia is strong but not so strong. Sharina has more potential f.e. Nynaeve isn't stronger than most forsaken, she's as strong as the weakest (Moghedien).

Logain=Taim > Egwene (dude, read the last book)
but Logain and Taim both were close to Rand in raw power. But because they were only 30 years old (while all Forsaken had hundreds of years of experience) they would loose in a battle.

>>5113825
I don't know shit about power levels, but didn't Egwene slap Taim's shit even though he had Demandred's angreal of turbo-rape?

>>5113866
She was using the Flute sa'angreal, which was the second strongest female sa'angreal after Choedan Khal. Even then she still had to overreach to defeat Taim, killing herself.

>>5111258
>that Balthamel has the most potential strength

No. Canon, the Dragon IS the most powerful, in terms of raw power, channeler to ever be spun out. Moridin/Ishamael is basically a hair less powerful in terms of the One Power. Half the idea of the series was that Moridin and Rand were basically opposites but equals.

Okay, whose death upset you the most?

For me, it would be Moiraines, before her return

>>5114478
All of book 5 is basically about punishing Rand for his misogyny, her death being the ultimate disaster that he causes.

>>5114922
>misogyny
If anything the series is filled with misandry

>>5114931
Chivalry is a form of misogyny :^)

>>5114931
Many of the female characters in the series hate men; many of the male characters hate women.

>>5114954
Basically yeah; Rand refuses to afford women the right to fight and die as men do; the Spear Maidens are correct when they take him to task for the disrespect this shows them. Rand refuses to attack Lanfear, directly and inarguably leading to Moiraine's 'death'.

Basically it's saying 'women are too delicate and weak to get to play by the same rules as men'; whatever the justification is, it's a form of misogyny and Jordan clearly means to take his male characters to task for it.

>>5085233
>TSR: 9/10 best
Just finished it. I'm trying to decide between listening to the audio book on youtube or waiting until however long to read the next book.

Fuck Elaida so much. How retarded can one person be?

>>5110708
This is from theoryland. Some superfans went to the library some of RJ's notes got donated to and did recon. Other stuff:

Galad was supposed to be the son of Lan and Morgase and would have started channeling late in series.

Rand was originally supposed to hook up with Morgase, who was a mix of Morgase, Elaida, and Berelain, and who gave birth to Galad via Lan. Galad was not only supposed to channel but also turn to the Shadow because of Rand's affair with Morgase. (Out of that came Gawyn.)

Mat and Perrin didn't even exist yet other than collectively of an unspecified number of "boys" tagging along, and playing no individual role (as we know, drafts of TEOTW eventually had four of them, before Harriet had RJ cut the one who seemed to have no purpose). The ta'veren concept didn't exist yet either.

Egwene who wanted to be AS and Nynaeve who loathed them seemed more the characters we know already, but Mat & Perrin had yet to emerge.

Moiraine was originally supposed to become Amyrlin at some point. Her character seems to have been split to create Siuan.

Originally, proto-Tuon had to be convinced to let Rand leave to escape Aes Sedai, but she was to follow him later & take the Stone for him.

At the time the plotline was conceived, though, Morgase and the Queen of this court were two separate characters. Elayne was of the latter.

For those who wondered about Min's viewing of a white-hot iron for Rand...that was an early-conceived plotline that RJ actually abandoned.

RJ appears to have written most of his Aes Sedai notes around TPOD-COT. I'm sure that contributed to his slowing down quite a bit.

RJ had developed the Aiel as a concept before almost anything else, including the main characters, including Mat and Perrin.

The Aiel were already named and developed at that point, and a female Aiel warrior-society-type was already on his list of intended lovers.

Moiraine=Michelle Pfeiffer

Rand was at some point supposed to find himself shipwrecked on the shore of a nation of female warriors (separate from the Aiel).

RJ pictured Faile as a young Cher. Fain as Alan Rickman.

RJ planned a character named Kadsuane when Shai'tan was still named Sa'Khan (way before TEOTW was published).

Quote from RJ's notes: "HOW MANY TRADITIONAL FANTASY ELEMENTS DO WE HAVE?...GIANTS? ELVES?...[No fucking unicorns, that's for damned sure!]"

Quote from RJ's notes: "THIS HAS NOT YET BEEN MENTIONED IN THE BOOKS, AS OF PATH! It will be in KoD." Titles planned that far in advance?

RJ debated with himself a bit on Sorilea's strength, assigning low-range, mid-range, and high-range strengths for her. He eventually ended up going with low-range, but still not really approaching the depths of Moiraine's post-Ghenjei strength.

Random detail from those TGH notes: he described the scene with Lanfear putting on Rand's shirt in great detail. It's amusing how much thought he puts into the sex-related stuff. He loved his lesbians very much.

>>5115217
10/10 post, I love this under the hood shit

I kind of wish Travelling had never been a factor of these books. The issue of getting from point A to point B creates so much good adventuring in the early books; eventually the characters have so many means of zipping around the world that it starts to feel so much less vast.

Also, I wish he had never introduced the dreamworld. The endless battles that take place there are hopelessly dull given that they're bound by virtually no rules whatsoever. Also, it makes the constant failure of the allied good guys to communicate with one another inexcusable (granted Rand and Egwene won't compare notes because of their baggage, but why do Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne never know what is going on with one another for most of the series?).

How hilariously inaccurate is the term 'the ONE Power'?

There is also the power of dreamwalking, Perrin's wolf powers, Hurin's scent powers, Min's viewing powers, Padan Fein/Mordeth's hate powers, the Ogier's sung wood powers, the True Power, Mat's luck power (eg Taveren powers), whatever powers the snakes/foxes have, and on and on

>>5115319
Aes Sedai are so proud they don't seem to be able to acknowledge other sorts of powers.

>>5115298
Agree with the dreamwalking, disagree about travelling. I like how it's used, especially in the last books.

>>5112978

I wouldn't call Blind Guardian speed metal. But both WoT songs on At the Edge of Time are fucking epic.

>>5115483
holy shit this is ghastly music

THIS is how you do fantasy based metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCi_HoMHec&feature=kp

>>5115217
>RJ pictured Faile as a young Cher. Fain as Alan Rickman.

Both of these come across so well in the writing, holy shit.

>>5115509
That's sum pretty good doom metal, but I'll take Blind Guardian for my fantasy based music every time.

>>5115217
I reckon Alan Rickman would be too imposing to pay Fain. I always pictured him as a small sort of guy that anyone would easily dismiss.

>>5115298
I hated the dream stuff too. On a reread I noticed just how early in the books the dream shenanigans start (right back in book 1) and it made me depressed knowing that 200 000 words of dream fights and Perrin's inner struggle with a really simple solution was coming up.

>thread music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6taeBwXyXg
>>5115217
I love this kind of shit
>no fucking unicorns
Haha, that's great.

>>5116088
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6taeBwXyXg
An anime adaptation even has an ED ready made. It could be like Jojo.

>>5082761
What visual medium would you want most for an Adaptation. (bear in mind everything about it will be HBO quality)


If I was a multibillionaire I would definitely fund a bunch of shit like this. Just throw money at until it got done.

>>5116726
What I would want most is a tv series, but longer than a 10 episode season per book like ASOIAF, and I would want all the necessary details in it, don't cut shit.

(All those pages describing the same shit over and over wouldn't apply because it's a live adaption.)

>>5117272
>>5116726
Where do the One Power threads originate? From the hands or from the head?

>>5117332
I believe it's stated a few times, while characters are using the One Power that to an onlooker it would look like two people staring at each other (so the head), but it's also stated I believe, that they use their hands to "direct" the threads, or that it makes directing them easier.

So, it originates in the mind, but the hands are used as well.

>>5117346
but Rand has only 1 arm

>>5117355

>>5115298
But Egwene keeps in contact with Elayne and Nynaeve while they are apart

>>5117493
They still lie to each other though.

>>5117648
That's one of the main points of the whole series though, the way almost every conflict the characters face could be resolved if they just talked about it straight instead of acting on lies, misinformation, and rumor. Shit, the throughline in the entire plot is historical decay and how information is twisted with every retelling.

>>5117346
The hand waving is a shitty habit of Aes Sedai that makes it more intuitive to weave, but it's not necessary in any way.
The Desert Cunts never move their arms or anything while they channel.

>>5117332
I don't think they are attached to anything, they just come into being close to the channeler.

So at the end of the series

is Rand an all powerful god figure now who can shape the pattern to his will? or does he just have that angreal pipe that can light itself? I remember reading something about that but one of my friends and I got into an argument about it

>>5118194
I read somewhere that he "wills" the pipe to light, so I would assume that means he's god-like.

>>5117493
>But Egwene keeps in contact with Elayne and Nynaeve while they are apart
But not very often, and they frequently fail to share huge worldshaking details with one another such as "We left Mat in Ebou Dar and he might be dead".

>>5117670
>That's one of the main points of the whole series though
Yeah if I were to identify one primary conflict it would be about the failure of supposed allies to work together because of stubborness and petty misunderstandings. Depending on who you talk to they will blame the men or the women primarily, but I think the writer(s) took both to task equally across the scope of the saga.

>>5118194
Huh, it never would have occurred to me that it was just the pipe that was magic, but that's a pretty cool interpretation.

>Rand's face when he tries to will himself out of some dire confrontation only to realize his only power is smoking tobacco

>>5118194
Speaking of the end, what do you think is gonna happen with Rand, Min, Aveindha and Elayne? Are they all going to live together and fuck all the time? Because that's a pretty great reward for Rand after what he went through.

>>5118194
>>5118801
>>5119464
For some reason I remember reading something about a male angreal (or whichever word you use for a magical item imbued with the one power that anyone can use) that was shaped like a pipe. Maybe it was when they found that cache at Rhuidean or when they were searching for the Bowl of Winds

Maybe it was mentioned when Nynaeve and Aviendha were exploring the latter's talent for detecting the power of items of the one power

I may be mistaken though and Rand really is all powerful now

Honestly I prefer the first theory. I would like it if he was just a normal dude with a cool little magic knick knack

>>5120561
I feel like Rand will just live his life, spend some time alone reflecting, etc. eventually he'll come back. The one thing I don't like though is how he is in Moridin's body. I can't see how that's NOT going to be an issue. Maybe he'll just hermit it up and take comfort in the bond that he has with them

>>5118194
Rand is all powerful. It's not clear what kind/level of control he has over the pattern, but he has some at least.

>>5121529
Is this explicitly stated anywhere?

Just finished Crossroad of Twilight.

I can see why it's the least favorite of the series, it was 800 pages that covered events that normally could have been resolved in half a book, or even less.

This Faile sub-plot with being Gai'shan is just weird. Especially with that Aiel flirting with her and massaging her while she's bound (I'm sure Robert Jordan was into that shit). It bugs me that she doesn't seem to mind, even though she's Perrin's wife. I just hope this shit is finished early in Knife of Dreams.

>>5121581
Nope. And according to interviews Sanderson doesn't know the specific answer either. RJ wrote that bit and considering that the answer wasn't in his notes so that Sanderson would at least know the answer even if he didn't tell anyone, it's ambiguous on purpose.

>>5121581
It is not. In fact, it is deliberately left vague; Jordan said he wanted to leave a "hook" at the end of the story.

So any speculation on whether Rand can manipulate the pattern (effectively a Dreamer, but in the physical world) or whether he just has a ter'angreal pipe is just that, speculation. But personally I prefer the former theory, given his pattern fight with tDO. He might as well have leveled up after that. Also, the latter theory seems more like a "fooled you" end than a cool end, so I'll believe my cool end.

>>5122101
Take comfort knowing that after it ends, Faile does the only decent thing she does in the entire series to stop shitlord plots being allowed to continue.

Did we ever find out what Rand's 3 questions were?

>>5120626
If Rand has the ability to "will" shit into existence or to force his will on the world, maybe he can change his outward appearance for the sake of his lovers?

Besides the 3 lovers, do you think Rand will reveal himself to anyone else? I can't imagine he'll want to be completely alone, even with Min/Elayne/Aveindha and his children.

I just finished this series too, and something was bugging me. Matt claimed to killed the golem but I don't remember reading him doing it. I kept searching through towers of midnight and couldn't find the section.

Eventually, I looked up online what chapter it happens in. Turns out my copy is missing an entire chapter. It just skips from one page straight to another some 30 or so pages later. No idea how I missed this while reading. It does seem like the pages were pulled out or anything either. They just weren't put in.

>>5122446
It's a book binding issue, you're missing a signature. In aMoL one signature was like 32 pages, so it seems to fit. Pretty neat.

I had a similar issue with one Lone Wolf and Cub volume where they had mistakenly bound the same signature twice. So I had 100-130 (or something) twice and no 130-160.

>>5088507
I actually like both, though I'd never compare them other than in their length because they are too different to me.

>>5103812
>Lorn
RIP <;_;

>>5122339
I don't know. Probably he would eventually, but Rand is a fairly practical guy and I'm sure he realises the complications that would come from too many people finding out.

>>5091688
I've read all of these, plus the black company, kingkiller chronicles and some others. Any idea where to go now?

>>5122473
Well damn. Bought it like two weeks ago and don't have the receipt anymore and don't even know if I even want to bother replacing it. May just read the chapter at the library or something.

>>5122524
You read the obsidian trilogy yet? Was a pretty fun read, although I thought the sequel trilogy was terrible.

>>5122536
>obsidian trilogy
I'l give it a go, running out of good fantasy books to read.

>>5122543
It's standard evil power returning, chosen one fantasy. Has an interesting magic system though and the story is interesting enough.

>>5122524
This is practically only a name drop since I don't know what you liked, but have you read

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (Williams)
Monarchies of God (Kearney)
Sword of Shadows* (Jones)
Prince of Nothing* (Bakker)
Long Price quartet (Abraham)
Those two Dragon something trilogies (Rawn)
Engineer trilogy (Parker)

* is incomplete.

>>5122337
>Did we ever find out what Rand's 3 questions were?
One question was how to cleanse saidin.
The answer was a riddle that Herid Fel says "stated sound principles in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."
"How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"
"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

Rand’s third question to the Aelfinn involved Rand asking how to kill the Dark One. More detail on these will most likely be put in the Encyclopedia.

>>5122689
>"How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

I was sitting smug for like haf the series convinced that "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" would be not literally his blood, but that Elayne would give birth at the climax of the battle or some cheesy bullshit like that, and seeing his own kid would give Rand the final ounce of willpower he would need. Shit would have been so Eddings.

But I suppose the way it happened was decent as well.

>>5108175
>making a nigga pant a little while he fucking reks you is softening him up

Which of Rand's women would you pick?
>Min Masterrace

>>5109511
That was badass. THanks for the dump

>>5123555
Having just finished TSR

Min > Elayne > Avi

>>5123555
>>5123619
>Min
fcking disgusting

>>5122446
Dude you need to find that. Absolutely badass fight scene. It starts with Mat fucking around and gambling and being funny, then he steps outside and thinks "alright, he should be here now, let's go." IT is a virtually self-contained chapter, just him eliminating a mini-boss in a cool sequence

>>5123648
Tell me why I shouldn't want the only one of the three not to channel and who has nifty visions?

>>5123648
>implying Min isn't the most kinky of all three as probably is insane in the sack.

>>5123619
>>5123648
ok, i think we can all agree that Nynaeve > All

>>5123619
>>5123555

Avi > Min > Elayne

>putting Elayne last

She likes to party and curse and stuff, she's easily the best.

Aviendha is a zealot and is pretty unintelligent, probably the least bright character in WoT except maybe Child Byar or something. Watching her not understand her Wise Woman Acceptance test was fucking painful.

Min, as we've been over in this thread, is a saccharine louse whose only characteristic is her love for Rand (her other characteristics, like being a tomboy, are retconned/dismissed/undone). Read any line of dialogue Min has book 6 onward and tell me you would stick your dragon dick in that.

Elayne has bigger tits, is prettier, is confirmed for being fit to bear children, is loaded.... it's a no brainer.

Elayne > Avi > Min

>>5124486
Elayne is also a terrible self-centered abrasive person.

Aviendha or Min, at least, are people you can deal with as rational human beings. Elayne is a bad person and actively unpleasant; for all her positive qualities, which do exist, she would be impossible to deal with.

>>5124503
>a terrible self-centered abrasive person.
>a bad person
This isn't what you're supposed to think about her though. You're straight up misinterpreting the book if this is what you got out of it.

>>5124526
Or Jordan fucked up, and what you're supposed to think about her does not match what is actually present on the page.

>>5124503
>Aviendha
>deal with as rational human being

I think Aviendha is one of the least rational entities in the whole series. She's a senseless xenophobe who can't fathom wetlander ways.

Look at the number of instances when she in all seriousness suggests murdering somebody as a practical solution to a given political or diplomatic problem.

I like Aviendha and I'd fuck her and all, but the allegation that you can "deal with her as a rational human being" is just demonstrably ridiculous.

>>5124541
>what is actually present on the page
Curious for you to cite some passages or events that justify your opinion of her

>>5124549
Aiel society is a functioning political entity and her suggestions are perfectly valid within its ways of life. Her difficulty adapting to wetlander norms doesn't make her a senseless xenophobe, any more than Mat's lack of comprehension of Aiel ways makes him a senseless xenophobe, or all the times there's mutual incomprehension amongst wetlanders.

>>5124577
Been a while since my last readthrough so I don't have specific examples but I remember all of her plots in Cairhien involving politics etc as being really bad in this regard.

>>5124598
>Mat's lack of comprehension of Aiel ways makes him a senseless xenophobe
But Mat DOES understand Aiel ways. Everybody gets the Aiel, they think they're brutish and savage, but they understand the context of "these people live in a wasteland and are bellicose and warlike and make weird jokes." They understand that they're different and have different customs. Aviendha fails to understand this, she spends her time in the wetlands in a state of perpetual confusion.

>all of her plots in Cairhien involving politics
She only has one (1) ploy involving Cairhienen politics where she gives some nobles some land in order to secure her rule there. What about this bothered you so much? Also, don't hate the player, hate the game.

>>5124637
Oh, dammit, I meant Caemlyn. See what I mean? It's been too long since I've read these books. I can't be trusted. It was the Caemlyn plot in the 10th book. And it wasn't just a Great Game thing, IIRC it was pretty dumb from a Great Game perspective as well.

And re: Mat and the Aiel, they get the Aiel from the outside but they don't understand them internally. They're just more comfortable assigning them to the slot of 'weird foreigners' and just rolling with their eccentricities, because (A) Randland is not monocultural the way the Aiel waste is and (B) Aviendha is incredibly stubborn. But that's not the same as UNDERSTANDING IT.

And I think you're overstating the extent to which she's confused, and I don't think that offering solutions that she thinks are appropriate is a bad thing. Hell I'm not an Aiel and there are times when I want to solve problems with violence.

>>5124663
>I don't think that offering solutions that she thinks are appropriate is a bad thing.
There's a scene you might recall where an Aiel violates Rand's edict and kills some wetlander over an honor issue. Rand has to execute the guy.

The Aiel in question is a fucking moron. EVERY OTHER AIEL understands that Rand has issued this rule that says "don't kill wetlanders", but this guy for some reason is unable to process it. Aviendha is comparable to this guy, fortunately she never ends up actually killing anybody. But you can't imagine, say, Rhuarc being this dense right?

>Elayne
It's difficult to argue with you about this since you seem fuzzy on the details but I'm really not sure what behavior you think Elayne exhibited that was so detestable. Her throne ascension was one of the more desperately boring and protracted subplots in the book but I don't recall anything she did that was callous, immoral, cruel, insensitive, or stupid.

All of her stupid behavior comes from her wanting to get her hands dirty and do adventurous shit that ends up putting her and her babies at risk, but that's something that makes her a badass, not something I hold against her.

I would say the reason why Elayne rubs me the wrong way is because every time it's mentioned Rand saved Caemlyn for her, she gets all pissy saying shit like "a man will never give me Caemlyn, it's mine by right", or some shit like that.

Not only is Rand her lover, but also the Dragon Reborn, and he did what he did because:

1. He thought Morgase was killed
2.Rahvin would be left in control
3.This would threaten Elayne
4. If even he killed Rahvin and then left Caemlyn for Elayne to come scoop up, she wouldn't even have gotten there in the time she did because it was Rand sending Mat that gave her urgency, and if Rand didn't threaten to hang every mother fucker there, she wouldn't have a kingdom to come back to and claim, she would be relegated to be a nobel of a major house.

She acts way too ungrateful for something a man she loves did for her simply because of "muh right". And yes, I understand that if Rand did give it to her, it might be considered unjustified and her claim would be threatened, but holy shit, behind-the-scenes at least show some fucking gratitude.

>>5125379
It wasn't the problem of him killing Rahvin, it was him saying "I'm handing you the throne." This wasn't politically viable.

I agree that she could have shown him more gratitude behind the scenes, but iirc they didn't even ever talk about it for some time to come; after their tryst in Tear, there's no contact between Rand and Elayne until the three wenches descend on him and bond him.

>>5125562
I understand it politically, but everyone she talks to behind the scenes, even Aviendha, she acts like a cunt about it. I think someone even points out how it's because of Rand she even still has a claim, and she gets butthurt about that.

She must be amazing at sex for Rand to stick with her crazy ass.

>>5125379
I hated Elayne for that too. I'm pretty sure it's actually Egwene (who the fuck knew that Egwene could take Rand's side in something?) who points out that when Rand says that he 'intends Elayne for the throne' he doesn't mean to put her on there like a puppet, he means to be the person to keep her throne available for her until she can show up to claim it.

If Rand had killed Rhavin and moved on, some other noble would rule Caemlyn and Elayne would have no way to retake the throne.

>>5123780
I don't know man, it's a close call between Moiraine and Nyn.

Maybe I could just go full Rand-mode and fuck them both.

>>5125732
Moiraine is by far the best girl. I like Berelain a lot too.

>>5125755
Moiraine a qt

>>5125771
I love the new artwork, and these make Moiraine easily the most attractive. (All the girls look better in this style, however.)

Just started Knife of Dreams, Galad is now muh nigga.

so in a series whose entire thematic range lies within the scope of second-wave feminism, the major criticisms outlined itt are:

- the women are "bitch"es and "thundercunt"s
- women can't assert their rights (even if they're noble born rulers) without being called "abrasive" ("bossy")
- the women of the series are mere objects of lust, slaves to the male gaze, and 'ranked' in terms of whom male readers would PIV

sorry but isn't this a bit disgusting to anyone else? this is not even a critically acclaimed series, it's just dreck, so what is the excuse?

>>5126188
1. The women ARE bitches. It's less a function of the things they do and more about how they say it. From the lense of someone who wasn't born in Randland, when women go around behaving like they shit gold, they are being bitchy.

2. Elayne IS abrasive, and it's not because she laid claim to her throne, it's because SHE IS FUCKING ABRASIVE. At one point she decides the best way to deal with a man - her lover's best friend, and a man who had saved her ass on two occasions nonetheless - was to "train" him into being a good footman as though he was the shit on her slippers. Not only does she treat Mat poorly and then behave like she's having fingernails pulled when she finally has to thank him for saving her pink-behind, she's rude to the other men AND the women. Constantly. Everything's a battle. Everyone else is always wrong. Elayne is always right. No matter how you are raised, that's called being unnecessarily contentious - the common phrase for which is 'thundercuntus maximus'.

3. I'd like to make a few points here:
a) they are fictional characters, written word and not even portrayed on screen by any actress in particular to lust over, if this buttrustles you then >>>/tumblr/
b) ranking women is a 4chan in-joke at this point
and probably most importantly,
c) the women hold the power in the books. At the town level, at the country level, at the Aes Sedai level, everyone bows and scrapes to women because that's how their world has evolved. If they were objects of lust they'd be lying around in skimpy clothing waiting for the men to save them - which they don't do at any point ever in the whole series. Even Min whose entire character is wanting Rand's wedding tackle in and around her mouth is quite capable of surviving the Aes Sedai and anyone who happens to think her purse is worth cutting in the streets.

>>5126446
This guy gets it

>>5126446
I'm convinced that you're just making shit up at this point. At what point does Elayne want to "train" Mat? They're quite rightfully annoyed by his presumptuousness in Ebou Dar when he wants to "rescue" them from the Aes Sedai, effectively undermining their assertions that they ARE Aes Sedai (an assertion Mat is openly scornful of, let alone Egwene's newfound title).

What everybody in this thread seems to miss is that the gender dynamics are split down the middle. The whole point is that both sides are equally bullheaded and stubborn, but for some reason (basement dwelling manchildren?) everybody ITT relates exclusively to Rand and not at all to the female characters.

>>5126729
In Ebou Dar. Egwene puts them a few days out from the city and they ride in and Elayne decides that Mat will straighten out and obey her/Nyn if she treats him like a pet to be rewarded when he does what she wants and scolded when he does something wrong. Yes they're annoyed that Mat showed up with orders from Rand but what you're missing is that no one communicated to Rand the true situation in Salidar, and thus he was unable to communicate it to Mat. Mat showed up with all the knowledge available to him, got the short shrift and then spent the next book being bossed around by Elayne who just assumed that the natural order of things was that people would do exactly as she says.

Besides which Mat isn't actually wrong about Egwene's new title. He arrives, finds that she really is the Amyrlin Seat and immediately is able to make the connection that they're using her as a puppet. Turns out that Egwene had a plan of he own, but that doesn't make Mat wrong.

The best scene of all books was Egwene telling Nynaeve what a cunt she is.

I rarely visit /lit; I'll be honest I normally just lurk around /b and I don't think I've ever posted on 4chan in what, 4 years... But, after having spent the last hour reading through this entire thread, I just had to say thanks cunts.

OP, if you're still reading this, keep going with the series! Books 11-14 are compulsive to read and I thought that most of the ends got tied up pretty well.

Damn, I've gotta hang out at /lit more often! Stop hating on Egwene you bastards, she was one of the most emotive characters in the series!

>>5126046
>That fucking scene

I had to hug my stepmother really tight next time I saw her.

>>5122524
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

>>5127192

sad this series isn't more talked about, the characters have a lot more depth than most other fantasy series

>leper author who is a social reject goes into a coma in the real world
>wakes up in fantasyland called just The Land
>finds out in this world that white gold has mysterious properties and gives him power over wild magic
>is unable to take this all in stride, thinks he's having some sort of mass delusion/dream, and goes off and RAPES A WOMAN to prove that it isn't real to himself or something

it gets pretty good.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever

>>5126188
>a series whose entire thematic range lies within the scope of second-wave feminism

That's just not true.

>the women are "bitch"es and "thundercunt"s
Most likely intentional, at least to a point. The world of Randland basically has power dynamics between genders opposite from those in real life, so by making damn near every woman in power boorish and chauvinistic Jordan makes his audience, which I assume consists primarily of teenagers, think something along the line of "what a bitch, you can't be treating people badly just because of their gender" and boom, social commentary.

>women can't assert their rights without being called "abrasive"
They are really abrasive though. The Supergirls, Faile, Cadsuane, Siuan, Sorilea, Sevanna, Egeanin, Joline, Elaida, Thenobia, every single Windfinder... the list goes on. There are some powerful women who aren't bossy though. Moiraine, Berelain, Verin, and Tuon are all fully capable of telling people to go fuck themselves with perfect grace. By and large, matriarchal power trips are a product of the society they exist in and kind of sort of the point being made to you about trust and open-mindedness.

So I am in book 4 or 5 right now and was wondering ..

Does Galad always stay a stuck-up arrogant self-righteous little cunt or does he become better? Cause at the moment I really can't stand him.

>>5127864
Galad is steadily improving up until he's pretty much the best character in the last book.

>>5127931
That doesn't surprise me.

>mfw I read that he fucks off when Elaida had her coup

>>5128350
He becomes the realest nigga in the series in the prologue in Knife of Dreams-as I stated earlier in the thread.

Because of this thread I gave reading the series another crack. The last time I tried, a year or so ago, I could only get to the fourth book; this time I didn't even make it all the way to the end of the second.

I will never understand how people enjoy this series. Rand is the worst fantasy protagonist I've ever seen in my entire life of reading. The relationship between characters is horrid, most of the supporting cast is boring, and reading Rand complain, complain, complain for two thousand pages makes my blood boil.

>>5128755
I thought the same way you did about Rand, but he really turns around and his chapters become some of the best ones to read, and usually have the most satisfaction.

dead thread, I'm just going to make another when I finish Knife of Dreams anyway. This is the first, post-limit WoT thread I've ever seen. Good conversations