/lit/ - Literature

>All of writing is a huge lake. There are great rivers that feed the lake, like Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky. And then there are mere trickles, like Jean Rhys. All that matters is feeding the lake. I don't matter. The lake matters. You must keep feeding the lake.

>>5108772
Dammit, that is inspiring and depressing at the same time. I want my stream to MEAN something, to make the lake better, you know?

>>5108786
I want to dry up the lake, fill it in, pave over it, and sell used cars at outrageous prices. So, come on down to Dead Lake Motors, where we take care of all your discount automobile needs.

>>5108786
If it makes you feel any better, Jean Rhys is the one quoted. She realized that her writing might not be the heftiest, but she was still happy to contribute.

>>5108764

>You will never write a canonical novel or literary work, not even a popular one.

Not with that attitude!

>>5108791
The only writer that I can think of consciously trying to write a canonical work is Faulkner, and he was probably drunk...in fact, all of them were drunk. I need to start drinking.

>>5108789
Hahaha, yes.

>>5108794
>I need to start drinking.
You need to find a reason to become an alcoholic first.

That's the key.

>>5108764

Neither Kafka, nor Tolstoy, nor Shakespeare were trying to write canonical works. You just write what you write, and that part comes after. Or doesn't,

>writing for fame

Write for yourself. Express your inner demons. Stop telling yourself you'll never do it, start telling yourself you will do it. You can do it, but not for any false fame or recognition.

Do you think Camus gave a fuck what people thought of his writing? He wanted to reject the nobel prize. Aim to be Camus.

>>5108764

>>5108814
self-expression is cheap and mundane nowadays

if you can't figure out a better reason to write than a tired platitude maybe even your dreams are mere cliche

>5108814
> self-expression is cheap and mundane nowadays

Maybe if you're using jewbook and tweet twat you cynical bastard.

Im trying to inspire OP just to write for himself and not to live up to some "cloche dream".

Self expression is mundane if you are mundane. I am not worried if it is cheap, that is advantageous to my cause. How can you live and not express yourself?

Speaking is self expression, this 4chin post is self expression, my very conscience is self expression.

>>5108838
>>5108863

woops

>>5108838

>self-expression is cheap and mundane nowadays

I want to hear your reasoning behind that one.

>>5108863
+1

>>5108863
so shouldn't a work of your life overcome mere self expression? at the very least, surpass it

>>5108872
it's the solution to any ailment, the ointment to any existential carpet-burn from society, from life, from etc etc etc to infinity

it's tired, old advice from your parents, it's antiquated consolation from the art teacher in high school

basically it's so cliche to be worthless, and jewbook and tweet twat are self-expression made easy

if there's anything you should get from our circumstances, from the internet itself, is that self-expression is cheap. move beyond it and at least you might stop shit-posting with feels threads my fellow anons

>>5108838
>>5108814
>implying you can use a medium designed to communicate to do something for purely personal reasons
>implying Camus wasn't intensely interesting in having an audience, and just didn't care, or was uncomfortable, with the literati, and how the Nobel is usually viewed as a lifetime capstone prize.

>>5108889

i.e. It's too mainstream.

Your only argument is that it's been done so many times by so many people that there's no more reason to do it? Seriously? Self expression is, by definition, personal. Different for everybody. Nobody's telling you to write a sob-story about your life, but to express what's in your heart. Your strengths, your ambitions, your fears, your fetishes, they all go into your writing in some way or another. Literally every work of literature, from philosophy to dime novels is self expression. Even the cheapest, most formulaic moneygrab offers a little insight into what makes the author tick.

I am not entirely sure you know what self expression means.

>>5108914
>i.e. It's too mainstream.

lol

If you want to write in order to be famous, you're doing it wrong.

>>5108914
>Your only argument is that it's been done so many times by so many people that there's no more reason to do it? Seriously? Self expression is, by definition, personal.

my argument isn't the nullification of self-expression, nor the cheapening of it. rather, that self-expression is merely part of the whole.

>>5108802
I have no real friends. I meet with "friends" that I made in high school once every two weeks or so, and we watch some movies and then depart. I don't go to social events or even go outside for reasons other than my part time job, walking my dog, working out, or swimming at my community pool, alone. My only college acquaintances (the people that I speak to during before and during class but don't so much as text) know me to be odd but this is because I carefully mask my real opinions and thoughts whenever I am in contact with a human being. I act aloof and dispassionate but am actually hypersensitive and self-aware. I am narcissistic and self-loathing and am terrified of being anything else. No Longer Human described my life perfectly except that I have never had sex, don't do any drugs, and am terribly unfunny--so, in a way, I am even less human than that guy.

Can I become an alcoholic or am I too far gone?

>>5108977
so basically you extend your unhappiness with your self and lampoon yourself for not meeting the "unhappiness standard" of people you admire

come on, there's gotta be more to you than that right?

you should stick with your guns and just become george constanza

>>5108992
I am not lampooning myself, that is 100% factual. Maybe it comes off as ironic but my irony is sincere. Being without any real drug experience, I am curious as to whether alcohol would make me write better, or at least make the process easier.

>>5108992
>you should stick with your guns and just become george constanza
I have no idea what that means. I should express myself openly?

WRITE FOR YOURSELF, TOWARD AN AUDIENCE.

MAKE OF THE YOUNGER ONES YOUR AUDIENCE; REMAIN INDIFFERENT TOWARD THE OLDER ONES, AND YOUR COGENERATIONALS.

>>5108968
>self-expression is cheap and mundane nowadays

>my argument isn't the nullification of self-expression, nor the cheapening of it

You should probably make up your mind before we go any further.

>>5108977
>>5109009
>no social events
>never had sex
>no drugs
>terribly unfunny
Don't you think it's time to live outside your comfort bubble a bit, mate?

You're not going to get what life can really teach you by being safe.

>>5108977

I can't offer you pity or comfort, but whose fault do you think that is? If you spend your life carefully disguising your opinions and never make an effort to meet people, how is anything ever going to change?

Friends don't drop from the sky. The universe isn't going to go out of its way to set you up with anything. No one is going to make the effort to befriend you for no apparent reason. That's the stuff of children's books. It's fun, but not going to happen.

If you want to have friends, you need to make friends. No, most of them will not be with you forever, or even more than a year, or stick with you in your time of need. You just need to find the one or two that will.

>>5109027
This guy knows how to make money.

>>5108764
But seriously OP, so fucking what? I wrote a story and I was recently told it's on a shortlist for some award. Sure, I was overjoyed for the first couple of hours but you know what I did then? I wrote. Because to get to this point, I had to bust my ass and write constantly for 17 years.

So what if my shitty little award means that my story will be given a place somewhere and then forgotten? So what if any books I hvae published get sold to a flea market by readers after I'm dead?

I wrote and that's all that counts.

>>5109098
>>5109138
I think I misrepresented my impression of myself. I understand that the conditions I currently live under are of my own doing. I consciously decided to live like this. I have little interest in going to social events, doing drugs, etc. Even as far as making friends, I feel no real need to do, as I don't feel much more need for human interaction that what I currently get. In the past, I have "lived life" or whatever you want to call it, but I was disappointed by each activity and endeavor. Friends became a major annoyance, I have always been bored at parties, and the effects of the drugs that I did take were lukewarm or unwanted. I asked if I should become an alcoholic only so far as that I am curious about it in a passive sort of way. Its the same way that I sometimes feel lonely or depressed, but these times quickly pass and I am left with what I think is a healthy state of mind (I recognize that most people aren't fully content in their lives). I am un-content but not miserable or "damaged" or whatever else a normal person would more than likely feel in my situation if they were dropped into it. I mask my opinions because I have found it rarely worth the hassle and arguments they incur. When presented with an interesting conversation, or person that I believe I can talk to sincerely, I do so. When I have to do group work with class mates or study with people when the more difficult subjects require it, I do so. I usually lead the group even. Am I living in a bubble? Maybe, probably...but I feel no compulsion to exit it.

Now can someone give their opinion into whether or not being an alcoholic can help their writing?

am I the only one here with zero desire to write?
I love reading, but I don't have any amazing stories or insights to share with the world. I'm perfectly happy to just read lots of awesome books without having to become some great writer myself.

>>5108764

The men who flew planes into towers spoke nothing to become canonical in our history.

Titian worked for commission.

Very few write to become canon, and those men who do are either deluded or prophetic/unique.

Since we all die, there's no shame in contributing a small amount. I wonder how many Greats would trade more life for less posthumous fame.

>>5109098

it's like you're me mang

>>5109212
Drinking can.

Alcoholism can't help much of anything thouhg. You should probably watch that.

>>5108764
>>You will never scribble some symbols on paper that your fellow primates will hoot and holler about

wow
what a travesty....

>>5109425
That's not Jim Carrey, it's Nicolas Cage.

You just sow. The fruits come afterwards, or don't. If you're writing so you may be rewarded with literary merit later, you're doing it wrong.

>wanting to be a famous author

I'm no pro but the more I read and write, the more I realize literature for most involved is simply a bunch of posturing so that one man can wave his shit around and yell LOOK AT WHAT I DID.

It serves barely any purpose. I've read a lot of novels that had an impact on me, or that I found entertaining, but at the end of the day I could have achieved the same (possibly better) results by actually learning a practical skill or reading non-fiction.

To me, literature is kinda like metaphysics. Neat idea, but at the end of the day you look at all that time you spent on it and think, "Wow, it's fucking nothing."

Because even if you do become something of a legend, the end result will be that a bunch of old pedants and hipsters will sit around jerking it to some brain shit that you took. Wow, so prestigious.

>>5109445

There's always been a market for follies. We still exalt the Pyramids.

>>5109445

Further, great art furthers human understanding/perception. It can force new ideas into our heads and force us to consider new (or old) possibilities.

>>5109467
So can philosophical texts, except without being intentionally obtuse.

>>5109467

that pic is so fake

>>5109472

Perhaps we recognize that different media may be used to make different points differently.

>>5109478

No! It's totally not.

Tesla was awesome.

>>5109480
Perhaps convolution for the sake of convolution is overrated.

>>5109484

If that's the case why is there no shadow cast by the electricity

>>5109221
No, I'm much the same, but I still occasionally write an essay or two, self-expression is great.

>>5108914
>Self expression is, by definition, personal. Different for everybody
>implying internet and mass media not synchronized us all to an extend that noone is really significantly different anymore

If you don't live all alone in some desolated place for at least 15 years your "inner life" is not uniqe

>>5109484

... lrn2 electricity? I'm exactly sure. Look it up. I've done research projects on Tesla before.

There are clearly cast shadows, perhaps your'e reading the angle wrong due to the odd effects of electricity on perspective in film.

>>5109496
>samefagging and forgetting to remove your trip

ya blew it

>>5109496

... I don't understand. I wasn't trying to be sneaky.

>>5109501

intended to reply to

>>5109499

>>5109501
>I was only pretending to be retarded
>can't even quote the correct post

shit son what are you doing, are you drunk

>>5109505

I really am.

Wine --> vodka --> bed.

night man.

>>5109499
>>5109505
>too retarded to realize the tripfag was arguing the same thing, just doing it in two posts for some autistic reason

>>5109509

>tfw yearner

no gf

>>5109212
It helped me. Mostly because I lost my inhibitions and got more social and for a moment stoped thinking about depressing shit.

Drinking actually cured my social anxiety. I no longer need to drink in order to have a good time with people but it sure makes it more fun sometimes. Depends on people themselves. There are 2 kinds of people in this regard. Ones you can have great discussion about anything, you dont have to drink to spend entire night having fun with them. Then there are ones you dont have that much in common except having fun together. With those I find it neccessary to drink so I dont bring up more serious topics they dont want to discuss.

Every time I am out I get so much inspiration. It definitely improves you as human being. Improves towards imperfection. Imperfection is exactly what you want.

>>5109430
>not getting meta-meta-irony