/lit/ - Literature

lel

that's a really disjointed list though. None of them are equivalent to any of the rest

ura plen

t. true patrishian

epik OP

simply epik :^)

There are, like, actual experiences and shit.

Antes que el arte, la vida.

>>5104440
each represent the most acclaimed work in their particular medium

>>5104452
no they dont

oh my god xD Ohpee

>>5104452
no

>>5104452
>the wire
maybe
>citizen kane
one of, not THE
>beethovens 9th
nah
>trout mask replica
scaruffi pls
>ulysses
no

>>5104455
>>5104462
they kinda do, though. not that there's any sort of official consensus on this, but you'll regularly find critics calling the wire the greatest television series, tmr the greatest work of popular music, ulysses the greatest novel, etc.

>>5104437
>The Wire
Finish the TV Holy Trinity by watching The Sopranos and Mad Men
>Citizen Kane
Watch Apocalypse Now, if you haven't already. The Act of Killing is also the best Documentary Film
>9th Symphony and Trout Mask Replica
Listen to Highway 61 Revisited by Bob Dylan and Songs for the Blind by Swans
>Ulysses
Branch into Nonfiction. There's Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War and Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent

>>5104464
>>beethovens 9th
>nah
What? Yes it is. I don't even necessarily agree, but Beethoven's 9th is often considered one of the greatest works of music ever.

>>5104465
scaruffi calling tmr the greatest album ever doesnt count

ulysses isnt even close to the greatest novel

>>5104437
I don't see any of the visual arts represented in that list, OP. What about sculpture and painting?

>>5104470
please be trolling

>>5104472

not even his own best

>>5104481
I'm not

>mfw there are actually people out there who think one of the most universally acclaimed albums in rock music is only recognized because of some eccentric italian's website

>>5104470

>>5104483
Okay? That has nothing to do with the critical consensus.

>>5104487
highway 61 isnt even his best album

it is laughable you included swans
go back to /mu/ or needledrop forums

apocalypse now is nowhere amongst the greatest of films

im listening to trout mask replica now

what the fuck is this shit? sounds like the musical equivalent of Finnegans Wake

you haven't experienced all life has to offer, but you should kill yourself either way. Only then will you be free of the notion that there can ever be any coherent or justified ranking of what is the "best" in an artistic medium.

>>5104491
We can exchange reactions all night if you like, but you might as well elaborate

>>5104495
I like Desire the most. Bringing it All Back Home and Blonde on Blonde are the other two pieces of Dylan's golden age though.

Swans are pretty much the closest thing to art that exists currently in music. I didn't recommend them as a rival to Beethoven or Dylan even, but it's a modern piece of music that at least merits a listen. Death Grips too, may they RIP in peace.

Apocalypse Now is the single greatest fictitious film ever made. Better even than Citizen Kane.

>>5104511
http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sightandsoundpolls/2012/critics/

>>5104518
Yeah yeah, I followed this list:
http://www.theyshootpictures.com/gf1000.htm

Apocalypse Now is still the best. Vertigo is terribly overrated. It's frankly depressing that people think it's better than Citizen Kane even

>>5104523
how is it overrated?

>>5104437
Take a trip to Cambodia, marry a prostitute for love, drive a monster truck in a demolition derby, enlist in the French Foreign Legion, fake your own death, hide away in Venezuela, resurface 20 years later with the power to heal the sick with your touch, and finish your Game of Thrones fanfiction you're working on.

>>5104511

>elaborate

You don't provide very good reasons for your rather poor and mimetic recommendations. The reasons you list thus far include

>closest thing to art today
>merits a listen
>greatest X better than X best X
>golden age of X

then on /lit/ you go an recommend Chomsky and Thucydides for what one could assume to be essential fiction.

Thanks, but it's not even funny.

>>5104528
>Chomsky
>Thucydides
>Essential Fiction

u wot m8?

>>5104525
The dialogue is overly expository, even for a movie that takes its time (possibly even too much time), and the plot is comically convoluted. If it weren't a Hitchcock film, and I say this with the utmost admiration for Alfred, it would be one of those movies people watch for comedic irony.

>>5104523
Say what you want about Vertigo and Citizen Kane, but 2001 and The Rules of the Game are without a about far superior to Apocalypse Now in literally every metric one can use to measure the quality of a film.

>>5104539
I'll admit that Rules is arguably better, but not 2001

>>5104533
>>Chomsky>Thucydides>Essential Fictionu wot m8?

he was just reading Ulysses, why would he decide to read (awful) non-fiction?

>>5104550
I think you've had enough internet for today, you're not even bothering to read the posts you're attempting to troll

>>5104549
How so? Thematically, cinemagraphically and technological innovation, 2001 is superior. It tells a better story through the medium of film. Apocalypse Now is just some adaptation of Heart of Darkness turned into a period piece about 'Nam.

>>5104555

It would save me quite a bit of cringing if did avoid reading these posts. Alright, hidden thread.

>>5104560
Implying 2001 isn't an adaptation itself. The difference between 2001 and ApocNow is that 2001 attempts to recreate the novel as a film, which inevitably results in cutting corners, whereas ApocNow immerses itself in the themes of Heart of Darkness whilst also showing the inescapable cycle of war's cruelty. ApocNow is also not a period piece, hell it's hardly even a war movie.

>>5104472
>greatest
>not his string quartets

maybe by total fucking plebs

>>5104569
Except that's wrong. The novel was written as an adaptation to the film. Kubrick finished the script before Clark finished the novel.

>>5104437
>not watching tarkovsky
might as well kill yourself for being so disgustingly pleb.

>>5104571
I prefer Tchaikovsky, personally. Nothing compares to The Nutcracker and Swan Lake. And as a bonus I get to watch toned people prance around in tight clothing while listening to it.

>>5104576
Both are extensions of Clark's short story The Sentinel. So yes, it is an adaptation

>>5104584
Only in the loosest sense. 2001 immerses itself in the themes of The Sentinel while also showing the progression of human evolution and the hubris of technological development. 2001 isn't an adaptation, hell it's hardly even a science fiction movie.

>>5104589
I personally don't like the hubris of technological development aspect. It's a running motif in Western fiction that machines will one day slay their human creators, it all seems rather Greek.

I prefer the Japanese approach, in that man and machine will adapt to each others existence in a way that ultimately benefits each other. Like Ghost in the Shell, which I'm disgusted didn't make it anywhere in the top 1000 movie list. Miyazaki is so overrated.

>>5104596
That's a pretty shallow interpretation of the Japanese relationship to technology.

Remember these are the only people who have experienced the fullness of horror that technology can bring: the bomb. Most post-war Japanese art has a very complicated and anxious relationship to technology. Miyazaki is an especially good example of this, which is one of the reasons (his outstanding animation is another) why he isn't overrated.

Maybe you should learn a thing or two about a culture before you start praising its supposed relations to "development".

>>5104437
Have you watched Evangelion?

>The Wire
That's not The Sopranos

>>5104606
No need to be so hostile, anon

And no, it's not a shallow representation of Japanese relationship to technology, I mean just look at the way they view robots in their popular culture. Even their toilets are robots.

The Japanese penchant for assimilating and perfecting things into their society even applies to Whiskey.

I think it's shallow for you to pull out the atomic bomb as the sole counter to my argument, and then completely forget that the very same people built nuclear reactors (which they probably regret now, but whatever). Grave of the Fireflies is an all-time great, but nothing else he did is. Maybe Princess Mononoke. Maybe.

>>5104610
I gotta second this recommendation. Original series and EoE. Avoid the Rebuilds

>>5104606
hahaha you're writing style is so typical of like every second year uni student, for example you.re gay

>>5104617

you mean to say it's adequate?

>>5104615
He didn't do Grave of the Fireflies.

And I'm not wrong. The disaster at Fukashima probably even highlights the anxiety (which isn't the same thing as rejection, note that I said it was a complicated relationship, while you seem to be projecting a technological utopic vision onto them). You're just applying consumer products to a national mindset. Seriously, check out people like Ken Domon, Takeshi Murakami, or the anime Akira for example. Note how when they wished to repair the pain of Hiroshima, they chose a very traditional piece of architecture (the haniwa house, pic related), as opposed to something modern and technological. It's as if they're harkening back to a past when such horrific destruction wasn't possible. No mistake about it, Japan is far from being totally pro-technology, even if the dictates of capitalism demands they develop it.

Again Miyazaki is another example of this. Look at Castle In the Sky, and note the relationship between maniacal power lusting assholes and technology.

You don't get Miyazaki and write him off. That's just sad.

>>5104620
I think it's trolling. Note the lack of a substantial critique paired with an obvious grammatical error.

Why do people consider The Wire and Citizen Kane the greatest examples of television and cinema respectively? I would never question their quality, but the best? What a joke.

OP you're an idiot. Watch The Sopranos and any of 1001 superior films.

>>5104511
>Apocalypse Now is the single greatest fictitious film ever made.
christ...

>>5104639
It's still Studio Ghibli, which he founded, so I ascribe him to its development.

I think you're being willfully ignorant to the mountain of pro-technology sentiment in Japan in order to perpetuate this idea of technological fear. Nuclear energy, sure, I mean that's what Godzilla is all about. Technology in general, specifically robotics, Japan as a country is probably the staunchest champion of such progress. This pro-technology stance would remain, Capitalism or not.

One film by Miyazaki does not counter an overwhelmingly popular sentiment held by the vast majority of his compatriots. You also never addressed my mentioning of Ghost in the Shell, which is a far superior film to anything Miyazaki has done. I'm not writing him off, I'm merely stating that he's overrated, which he is.

If there's one film that does support your argument, it's Tetsuo the Iron Man, but still it's just one film.

>>5104660
Though I agree The Sopranos is better, The Wire is a close second. Citizen Kane is also a true masterpiece of cinema

>>5104665
At least elaborate like the other anons do

>>5104665
As far as cinematography goes, I would be inclined to agree

>>5104668
please be living up to your name

>>5104560
There are many films at the peak of cinematic achievement. This argument is like the old one about what makes a girl a 10. There really is no girl who is an objective 10, but there are many 9's. A 10 is just a 9 that you love. It's the same with film and literature and every other creative format. There is no greatest book or film, only your favorite. The Arts aren't sports, so stop treating them as such.

>>5104667
>At least elaborate like the other anons do
The initial statement needs to be elaborated, not mine. Simply stating something is the greatest ever example of its medium without elaboration doesn't deserve an elaborate response.

>>5104678
I've elaborated in my latter posts. Read the thread, summer

>>5104667
I'm talking about the director. Miyazaki didn't direct Grave of the Fireflies. He didn't write it either. You can ascribe it to him if you want, but you'd be wrong.

You don't understand the difference between fear and technology, apparently.

I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell. What I do not know I must pass over in silence, to paraphrase some dipshit.

I've given plenty of examples. You just keep saying "but robots" which doesn't even counter my claim that their relationship to technology goes far beyond being simply "pro". Get some nuance or get a clue, but either way, educate yourself.

>>5104569
>ApocNow immerses itself in the themes of Heart of Darkness whilst also showing the inescapable cycle of war's cruelty.
While that's true, it has no relevance as to why the film is supposedly superior. That's just describing AN's theme's and intent. One could do the same for 2001 and not be any closer to arguing why it's a better film.

>>5104682
Could you please point out the posts? I'm having a hard time finding any worthwhile elaboration that isn't merely describing what the film is about...

>>5104695

he's a piece of shit and can't critically elaborate on any recs

>>5104667
>The Wire is a close second.
It's definitely not a *close* second, and I wouldn't even necessarily consider it better than Deadwood, at least not from a technical rather than a thematic perspective.

It's a bit of a mute point, all this, since it's one of my very favourite shows and obviously one of the very best, but for the sake of the conversation I can't see how anyone wouldn't judge The Sopranos the clear, clear master.

>>5104684
>You don't understand the difference between fear and technology, apparently.

You're going to have to expand on this point. I mean, the dichotomy between the two is so apparent that even small children know the difference between fear and technology. I don't know how I've demonstrated a lack of ability in telling two wildly dissimilar concepts apart. Maybe this is a typo on your part or something?

I would urge that you watch Ghost in the Shell and its sequel (which I didn't feel was as strong, but is the only Anime film allowed in competition at Cannes)

In all of your posts you only bring up Japanese fear of Nuclear energy, which I don't think anyone would argue isn't real. But 2001 is about robotics, specifically AI's, and the threat they pose to humanity, which is why I have focused on it so much in this discussion.

I'm not saying all of Japan is pro-robotics, or even technology in general (as seen in Tetsuo) but you have to admit that compared to Western countries, Japan is overwhelmingly more open to the idea of technological development.

You should spend less time attacking what you perceive to be my level of education, and more on reinforcing your points.

>>5104692
I suppose my argument would be that the question of morality in the face of mindless violence and oblivion is superior to 2001's theme of evolution. I'll admit it's more of a personal preference thing, but if it wasn't so late I could go into more detail on why, even from a technical perspective, I think AN is better. Without going into it too much, the dialogue in AN is, in my opinion, unquestionably better than 2001

>>5104695
I'm not going to hold your hand, especially with that attitude.

>>5104707
You wound me

>>5104708
The Wire is undoubtedly better than Deadwood, and this is coming from someone who was devastated when the latter was canceled. Deadwood's strength is its dialogue, which though undoubtedly without equal, is not enough alone to hoist it above The Wire in quality, let alone a show like Mad Men, or Seinfeld, or Curb Your Enthusiasm. Deadwood really falls apart in the last season, cancellation or not (not that The Wire's 5th season is perfect either, but hey, that's why Sopranos is king)

When will you realize that there is no "greatest" in general, only (plausibly) "greatest" by type?

Stopping at medium seems too broad. We can subdivide further and talk about greatest war movie, greatest maximalist novel of the 20th century, greatest computer programming textbook, greatest akira kurosawa movie about the meaning of life, greatest television show about manufacturing methods, greatest modernist-influenced cartoon, greatest list written by an autist, greatest subtitle group, greatest English-German dictionary.

Even then, these particular "greats" are generally determined by either consensus, either by popular vote or by polling critics, or by a compelling argument put forward by someone with an intimate knowledge of that particular type.

To convolute the situation even more, you seem to be treating each of these "greatest" things of their type as equal to each other. This hardly seems tenable. I would not consider the greatest flatulence to be of the same importance as the greatest military victory. Types cannot be considered equal. Some types shouldn't even be considered. In searching for culture, you have missed the forest for the trees. What you are searching for is goodness, and you are getting lost in the particulars.

>>5104722
autism

>>5104728

amiable more like

>>5104730
passive agressive stance is not amiable

>>5104465
>tmr
>popular
What

Firstly, BrBa is the new Wire. Secondly, DSotM or Abbey Road are more likely to be considered the generic "best" albums.

>>5104741
How am I being passive aggressive? I stated my opinion, it was argued against, and I have to concede on points that I think I may have been wrong about.

Those points I feel still hold, I continue to defend

You have to go into any debate with an open mind, otherwise how will you ever learn anything?

>>5104722
>the question of morality in the face of mindless violence and oblivion is superior to 2001's theme of evolution
How can those to things even begin to be compared?
Apart from television, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment itt that there doesn't exist a 'greatest ever' of any art form, and it's almost always pointless and impossible to rank specific examples.

>>5104511
>Swans are pretty much the closest thing to art that exists currently in music
Can't deal with it.
>2014
>memerock

>>5104748
>I'm not going to hold your hand, especially with that attitude.
>You wound me

>open mind

>>5104750
not that guy but its stupid to call swans memerock just because theyre popular on /mu/
they do create good music, but i agree its very srupid to label them anywhere close to 'greats' of the medium

>>5104749
I suppose I would disagree. In my belief, certain facets of the human condition, when explored in art, affect us in more profound ways than others. I understand your argument to the contrary, but I'm a sucker for the Plato ideal of absolute truth. There is always an objectively best answer, even in art, in my view.

>>5104750
Well the album is from 1996...

What do you mean by memerock? I'm legitimately interested in why you dislike Swans. I wasn't particularly fond of them the first few times I listened to their albums, but I'll be damned if they didn't grow on me.

>>5104755
You're not saying anything. Instead of posting one sentence complaints, try adding your own opinion and we'll go from there. This is a discussion board, not after all. I don't want to do all the thinking. Hence the open mind

>>5104452
>The Wire
>most acclaimed work in its medium

It definitely isn't, though. The Sopranos pretty much has a lock on that title, except for maybe a few miniseries.

>>5104615
>Grave of the Fireflies is an all-time great, but nothing else he did is. Maybe Princess Mononoke. Maybe.
Grave of the Fireflies is inarguably Ghibli's best film (and the only one of Takahata's to be better than Miyazaki's typical work), but I'd say several others qualify as great movies, if less serious ones than Grave. Also, I assume you're discussing the content rather than the animation, because if you dispute the animation quality of Spirited Away, then I'm done.

>>5104773
Few films are as beautifully animated as Spirited Away, but then again, few films are as wondrously computer generated as Avatar. Beauty alone, a masterpiece does not make.

the late string quartets are where it's at with beethoven

>>5104783
Oh, of course. I was just trying to establish that they do have some pretty much indisputable qualities.

>>5104579
>Plebus Maximus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDkJK7mWitI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i29LA1fy5r4

Educate yourself

>>5104783
I don't think you're equipped to judge what is a masterpiece of animation. You can't judge a piece of animation the same way as you judge a piece of cinematic film. It's a different medium.

Tell me, what makes something "beautifully animated"? I'd like to see if I'm right or wrong.

>>5104722
>>You don't understand the difference between fear and technology, apparently.

Total typo actually. It was supposed to read "the difference between fear and anxiety of technology" My mistake.

I'll watch Ghost in the Shell some day. There aren't any animated films that are huge priorities for me right now.

It isn't fear of nuclear energy. I never said it. The bomb was a catelist for this type of thinking. Not the object of the anxiety itself. It's not fear of technology, it's fear of technological annihilation. It isn't a definite fear of something in particular, like nuclear energy. Note that in Akira, it isn't a nuclear weapon, but the result of neurological experimentation. In Laputa, it's a floating castle with a giant laser and giant airships with cannons. It's an anxiety about technology's potential.

Think of Heidegger's essay on technology where he talks about it as being a type of framing. Japan, in addition to it's robot love, is aware of a way of framing technology in a dehumanizing (this is total Heidegger right here. Also like Ghost in the Shell perhaps? Full Metal Alchemist seems to on this, not that I'm too familiar with it, so I could be wrong) and potentially apocalyptic.

I don't think America is any less open to technological development. We love gadgets as much as anyone else, we just develop them in a different way. Weapons for example. We love fancy weapons. We just spent a fortune trying to develop the most advance jet ever made or some shit. We make more technologically advanced bombs all the time. I wonder why we'd be more apt to engage with technology on that level?

Speaking of levels, time to get on mine.

>>5104470
The Act of Killing and Sopranos are actually good, why did you have to put them in your troll post...

>>5104446
>Antes que el arte, la vida.

what's this from?

>>5104437
>Beethoven's 9th Symphony
>not Beethoven's Missa Solemnis

>>5104437
Citizen Kane is only touted as the greatest piece of cinema because of it's innovations like the deep focus shot and the non chronological narrative. If you ask a film major what the most important piece of cinema is they'll probably say citizen kane.

When plebs like you and I think of greatest film we are thinking more along the lines of most pleasurable film for an audience member to watch which is largely subjective.

Sopranos is better than The Wire.

It's not even close.

>>5104962
That's never been up for debate

I've always been on edge about whether or not vidya is art, but I never thought about TV series.
So is Sopranos the highlight of television?
What about popular or acclaimed anime series and films?
I'm a retard from /mu/ with only exposure to music, literature, and some film.

>>5104992
Western music, literature, and film, if I may add.

>>5104992

Go to /a/ for that shit

I'm going to sneak in one series before people lose it, but basically 'serial experiments lain'.

>>5104998
They seem fairly anti-intellectual, and my main concern was general television, not exclusively anime. I was just curious about that as well.
>Serial Experiments Lain
Yeah a friend mentioned that funnily enough. I'll give it a watch.

>>5104992
The Sopranos is the greatest thing to ever come out of television.

It's also better than 99% of all movies, though that's not saying much. It's incredible.

>>5104992
Paranioa Agent as far as an anime series goes. Serial Experiments Lain is good too. I also like Mononoke. It's like a moving ukiyo-e painting.
Anime Films, either Paprika, Spirited Away, or Grave of the Fireflies.

Also, video games are certainly art. Whether or not most of it is good art or not, that's another question.

>>5105007

Good taste.

>>5105003
>>5105007
Hope it's not internet hype, going to go through all these this week. Probably going to leave Sopranos for last due to being the longest.
Thanks lads.

>anime

man-children be gone.

>>5105027

begone*

>>5105027
Benjamin and Adorno had stuff to say about animation. Grow up and respect different mediums.

>>5105014
The first few episodes might seem a little cheesy. But it gets a lot better as it goes on.

Just stick with it for the first 5-6 episodes.

>>5105039
>Weeb heeb nerd leftists
begone

>>5105055

>o look it's learning

>>5105014
The show literally gets better with every season.

1<2<3<4<5<6

But as with anything, no matter how good it is, it might just not be for you. Like with many books, no matter how great everyone says they are, you might not be able to stand them.

The Sopranos is incredible, but you need to give it time to grow.

>>5105059
>>5105045
Fair enough. I'm not the type to drop something either way.

>>5104437

Now you just need to See King Lear/Hamlet/Waiting for Godot, Wicked/Les Miserables, See the Mona Lisa in person, Go to the Sydney Opera house, Complete an Iron Man, Have great sex, etc.

The Sopranos is a masterpeice but the true pinnacle of tv is its spiritual successor Mad Men
also miniseries like Kieslowskis Decalogue and Riget (The Kingdom)

>>5105119
>Have great sex

>>5105134
riget was a lot of fun, but i don't get why it gets listed like it's some 2deep4u masterpiece. it's a silly surreal show about a haunted hospital
is it just because it's foreign?

>>5105134
>mad men

Oh come on. It's good, but it's not even close to touching the greatness that The Sopranos achieved.

If we are talking miniseries, then Band of Brothers deserves a mention.

>>5105152
Ja, altså fra en danskers synspunkt, så er Riget kun populært fordi det er Trier. Ikke andet.

>>5105161
>>5105154
Sorry for some reason my mind switched to Danish.

From my point of view, Riget is only popular because it was a bit surreal and Trier made it. It's nothing special.

>>5105173
Meant to reply to >>5105152

>>5104470
>Listen to Highway 61 Revisited by Bob Dylan and Songs for the Blind by Swans
lost it

>>5104560
>2001 tells a story
no. 2001 is just an aesthetically pleasant visual work of art

Why just toe the outer perimeter of patrician media when you can survey all that's inside and what it shapes up to be? Or better yet, go beyond and find higher works if they're out there

>>5105190

it's actually nietzschean as fyck

>>5105190
Maybe it's "just" that if you're a bone-wielding ape, but as a starchild, I see the narrative.

>>5105161
>>5105173
>>5105181
man, you sure bungled that

>best movie ever made
>Anglo-American movie
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow just stop.

>Ulysses
Have you even read Thus Spoke Zarsthustra? Shakespear? The Greeks?

Also, where are the visual and digital arts, OP?
>Paintings
>Sculpting
>Architecture
>Fashion
>Video Games
>Web design
>Interior decorating
>Gardening
>comic books
>chinese cartoons

And have you even experienced the beauty of your own body? Martial arts? Bodybuilding? Athletics?

>>5105209
yeah I am still a bit drunk from yesterday. I usually don't fuck up that badly.

>>5105206
you'll get it one day kid

>>5105210
>Have you even read Thus Spoke Zarsthustra? Shakespear? The Greeks?
get a load of this idiot

>>5105210
>Shakespear
It's easy to see why your loyalties lie outside the Anglosphere

>>5105210
>>Video Games
lol

>>5105210

cool your jets dweeb.

>>5105227
What do you mean?

>>5105231
>Anglo-American movie
>Shakespeare

U wut m8?

>>5105235
Come on now, sont be that guy
>new media are unworthy

>>5104437
>Trout Meme Replica
>Being in the top 100 best rock albums ever

>>5105250

The implication is that the big loud oaf can't speak english properly and is likely to be a non-native speaker.

>>5105250
Lel

I dun fuck'd up

>>5104579
Good job choosing the plebbiest composer ever and his two plebbiest pieces

>>5105221
No, you'll get it. I bet you don't even know who the Whitney brothers are, their connection to theosophy, and the use of animation as a consciousness raising synesthesiac experience, and how that ties into the narrative of human evolution and the development of the mind. Interestingly enough, the entire part with HAL is a bet of a dead end red herring, because, holy shit, the point is that artificial intelligence is a dead end and red herring compared with the true human potential for the next step in our development.

But yeah, that isn't in anyway communicated. It's just flashing lights and pretty one-point perspective shots.

>>5105258

>tfw green pilled

>>5105254
>>5105255
>cant speak english properly

You mean the slight spelling error of a name? You guys are a pathetic. But if such Ad hominems make you comfortable with your shit taste, thats fine.

>>5105258
0/10

>>5105270
>you guys are* pathetic

You guys are going to have a parade cause of that <a>. It will only prove my point though. Go on.

>>5105270

>>5104437
Have you loved and been loved?

>>5104470
>branch into nonfiction
>read chomsky
?

>>5106564
Overrated.

>>5104470
>Mad Men
>Not even finished yet
>Not even anywhere NEAR The Wire or The Sopranos
Try Breaking Bad.

>Highway 61 Revisited
lel

>>5104511
>Swans are pretty much the closest thing to art that exists currently in music.
>Using "art" as a connotation of quality
Your opinions are bad, but you're retarded too.

>>5106596
Dude, breaking bad is good, but it is not even close to The Sopranos or The Wire.

>>5104437
most people who aren't plebs tend to expand into a niche that fits them as a person. people then move over to different niches, some end up in one particular niche for their entire lives, either from first try or several. seeing all the "best" art has the offer simply illuminates your own lack of sensibility. you do it just to chase some ideal and a very shallow one at that, because nothing speaks to you

>>5106603
>The Wire.

Who cares about niggers?

>>5106603
Yes it is, and it will be thought of similarly once it's less new

>>5106632
I don't. That is why I listed Sopranos first.

I am not the biggest fan of The Wire, but I can see why it is considered great. BB, while good, never really comes close to the level of greatness as the others.

>>5104862
Animation and Cinematic films are not so different that they cannot be compared, especially when the Cinematic film in question (Avatar) is essentially animated, albeit with computers.

>>5104883
You're still being willfully ignorant of a pro-technology sentiment in Japan that is undeniably without parallel in the world, especially the West.

I think it's become very clear through our discourse that despite your repeated attempts to drag me down to your level, I will not descend. I think that instead of blindly repeating your point, you should simply acknowledge that on this lone point, not the overall 2001 vs AN debate, you've been bested.

>>5104908
>>5105182
>>5106567
>>5106600
Nice shitpost

>>5106596
Just because Mad Men is not finished yet, does not mean it hasn't earned a spot in the top 3 pieces of Television ever made. Breaking Bad is Deadwood tier of far above average, but ultimately nothing classic.

What's so bad about Highway 61?

>>5106936
>Animation and Cinematic films are not so different that they cannot be compared

No, they use completely different technology and technique. It's like saying paintings and photographs are essentially the same medium and are to be judged by the same merits.

>>5104746
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music

as opposed to classical or folk music.

>>5106936
You've actually done nothing to support your position, aside from denying the significance of all the evidence I've given you. If you think that's "besting" someone, you're a sad and deluded fool. Make a substantial critique to one of my points and I might just reconsider them. A blanket denial isn't going to convince anyone of anything. Frankly your essentialist vision of Japan is disgusting. At least I'm presenting a nuanced position.

>>5106977
Your continual use of ad hominem fallacies is probably the best piece of evidence that you have, albeit unconsciously, surrendered to the truth of my position.

>>5106970
Painting and photography can be compared. I, personally, find paintings to be generally a superior medium, but this isn't to say that there are not photographs which surpass the majority of paintings.

Art does not exist in a vacuum

Have you played Shadow of the Colossus and STALKER?

>>5107000
Except I haven't been doing that. I've been repeatedly providing real concrete examples that you haven't even bothered to respond to other than stamping your foot and saying "nut-uh!" Really stop and think for a moment who is actually making an argument and who isn't. As I said, provide a substantial critique to my claims, and you have something to go on, but you've done nothing that even closely resembles that. I seriously pity you if you somehow think you're "winning" anything other than the preservation of your apparently fragile ego.

>>5107000
>Painting and photography can be compared.
Right, because they're both visual mediums. However, given the difference in technology and technique, it's not really possible to say one medium is superior to another. That's ridiculous. Mediums are to be judged by their own merits, not pitted against each other. You may enjoy the techniques necessarily developed to produce a masterful painting, but that hardly means it is a "superior medium". Such a position demonstrates a shaky foundation of art criticism.

>Art does not exist in a vacuum
No fucking shit. Any more banal platitudes you'd like to drop as if they mean anything in relation to the rest of your point?

You've wasted a whole lot of this life following other people's canons.

You'll never find the true masterpieces that way.

>>5107092

You aren't nearly as well read as you'd like to pretend you are you pseudo-enlightened newreader.

Go and be summer somewhere else.

>>5104437
Have you watched Stalker? If you haven't then there's your reason to live.

>>5104722
what the hell are you trying to argue, refuting your own points

>>5106936
>You're still being willfully ignorant of a pro-technology sentiment in Japan that is undeniably without parallel in the world, especially the West.
>I think it's become very clear through our discourse that despite your repeated attempts to drag me down to your level, I will not descend. I think that instead of blindly repeating your point, you should simply acknowledge that on this lone point, not the overall 2001 vs AN debate, you've been bested.

Japanese here, you're talking out of your ass and fail to address his points.

>>5104470
>Songs for the Blind
>Rec'ing albums you don't know the name of

>>5107450
Prove it

>>5107461
Eh, mistakes happen

>>5104437
>>5104927
>any of beethoven's choral work
>his best

You want the best music ever, it's scattered all throughout Mozart's career. Listen to the Jupiter symphony, especially the finale. It's way better than the 9th.

>>5104857
>fugue fetishist
Still better than Tchaikovsky

>>5109696

>tfw ave verum corpus

>>5109696
>>5109704
Damn straight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDKdrQgp_q0

>>5104918
Ricky Martin

>>5104437
nope, take the shortbus up to the magical castle in the sky

>>5109704
Stravinsky is the best russian composer

Let it be known

>>5109696
>>any of beethoven's choral work
>>his best


>Disregarding the Missa Solemnis, the unmatched mastery of the Et Vitam Venturi fugue and the unbelievable beauty of the Benedictus.

>>5109696
>Listen to the Jupiter symphony, especially the finale. It's way better than the 9th.

>Disregarding the supreme awe and terror of the first movement, that emerges from nothing, from absolute silence, like a universe awakening, to fill out all the space with music;
>Disregarding the chaos and ecstasy of the dionysiac rhythmical dance of the second movement;
>Disregarding the infinite longing and sadness of the third movement.

There is no doubt that the end of the Jupiter, with its incredible fugue, is a great work of art, but the Ninth Symphony is also supreme. There is a good reason for the Ninth be loved by thousands of listeners and music critics thorough the whole world and the centuries. Is one of the greatest creations of the human mind.

>>5109974
Yeah, the 9th is moving. The choral section just has it's faults and "the best" ever has to be perfect and mozart achieves perfection through the entire don giovanni for instance and it has moments equally or more moving than the entire 9th.

>>5104437
Matthäus-Passion

>>5104437
>implying reading, viewing, listening, once is truly reading, viewing, listening, and not re-reading, re-viewing, re-listening, until you perceive the work as a unified whole whose parks all subtle evoke one another, while these parts also grow more distinct and often more beautiful because you understand their function in the work wholly, and you grasp all the philosophical, historical, and biographical implications of the work, causing it to develop you, and to become weaved into the over-all texture of your life.

>2014
>Still pretending to love TMR
>Not accepting Faust's s/t as the best music piece in existence

>>5104470
Your taste in film needs some serious work.

>>5104437
no you pretty much got them all

see you in the afterlife

op forgot to live

Perfect bait thread for pretentious assholes

>seriously talking about anime

yet 4channers gonna 4chan

>>5104437
nope. I think you are ready to kill yourself.

If you want one more thing to add to your amazing life before you go, you should make dark side of the moon your suicide-soundtrack.

the wire is garbage for 110iq normalfags with reddit mentalities

You need to read Perelman's proof of the Poincaré conjecture.

>>5104437
No, you still have to play Planescape: Torment

Speaking of which, what does /lit/ think of that game?

>>5104437
>The Wire
???

>>5104437
Great list OP, except you forgot the best show.

I don't understand how anything can top this. (s01-08)

>>5104472
It's probably the most famous classical piece, but I doubt any enthusiasts or critics consider it the greatest ever

>>5104437
That's pretty much it...

>>5109957
dat aint Rachmaninoff

>>5111638
Rachmaninoff sucks balls. He's like Liszt, just composing flash, shallow pieces that sacrifice beauty for technical difficulty.

>>5104452
>trout mask replica
>most acclaimed work in its medium

what in the actual fuck are you smoking

>>5104472

WOW

>>5110891
>implying Perelman made the whole proof himself

stay pleb

>>5110700
not that guy, but why? Apocalypse Now is a completely plausible favorite film, is it not? or are you that guy?

>>5111657
Have you even heard his second piano concerto? There's hardly any flash to it, it is sublime tranquility until the return to the main theme with it's gut wrenching climax. I pity the fools who just parrot what some stupid amateur music critic shit out in a YouTube comment, hell you probably are one of them.

>>5112071
Apoc guy here, if you ask them for an alternative or any substantive criticism of my choice all you get is shitposting.

Except for 2001 guy, who I think we had a pretty good discourse until he got frustrated over one rather superfluous tangent and started devolving into ad hominem.

It's a shame, I like /lit/, but alas, it's still the internet

>>5104437
Chopin is superior to Beethoven
Bach is superior to Chopin

Also, no. If you get the opportunity, LSD, Psilocybin mushrooms and DMT is worth the experience. I collect mushrooms in October (Liberty caps), and do LSD twice a year or so.
Done that for the last 15 years.
Never been a big one for the drugs, but those have truly improved my quality of life.

>>5114323
Smoke DMT on LSD. Also huff nitrous on acid for inside out fractal language universe.

>>5114329
Tried smoking a bowl of Sally D and DMT, while tripping on a little over 2 grams of azurescens back in my college days. Was a little over the top, but still worth it, though it was moderately cloudy.
I´ll write that off to sally.

>>5114323
Chopin couldn't orchestrate for shit

>>5114341
Salvia terrifies me every time to the point of attempting to run away from the trip.

>>5114392
Might be so, Nocturne is still better than anything Beethoven wrote.

>>5114403
It´s a learning experience. Used to keep a couple of plants, but they died on me, about the same time as my sex life. Don´t get married. She won´t like your plants and she won´t like your cock, as soon as the ring touches her finger.
Looked into it recently, and the extract stuff seems to be a whole other thing than the stuff we smoked. But yeah, the lack of control is disturbing at first.

>not having ascended to authentic immaculate tier

Anna Karenina, Art of the Fugue, Filosofem, Berserk, Andrei Rublev, Being and Time, Weinberg's Quantum Theory of Fields

There's some I'm intentionally leaving out too because you're probably not ready for them.

ITT: plebs who think music peaked in the baroque or classical era

>>5111657
Typical novice who hasn't listened to any late liszt.

>>5114411
Ever been to a festival or a big name jam concert? Taking acid by oneself or with a small group of friends absolutely does not compare.

>>5111657
You don't know anything about Liszt man
Années de pèlerinage is beautiful introspective stuff

>>5104464
What's it going to be then, pretty boy? Blood Meridian?

>>5114432
>Berserk
Decent arguments can be made for the first arc. The whole thing, though? No.

>>5114447
or much rachmaninov for that matter

>>5104437
Have you read and fully understood the Tractatus?

this fucking thread, man

what are you guys doing

>>5104437
Listen to Bach, any Bach is good. Then you can kill urself while listening to Toccata et Fugue.

>>5114432
replace berserk with nausicaa and sure

>>5116144
You're the only person I've ever seen promote the Nausicaa manga. Is is any good?

>>5104470
I know this is a troll post, but still, fuck you.

>>5104437
Nice bait OP. You've read nothing. Everyone that has any kind of opinion has read the Western canon at least once before undergrad. WTF man. You haven't even started the languages yet, I can't even. 8/10 I replied and am mad.

>>5106936
>What's so bad about Highway 61?
Nothing about H61 is offensively bad, but there are better works by Dylan in the studio album format.

>>5116399
really? That's shocking. Yes, it's good. Several degrees better and obviously more complete than the film, probably the best the medium has to offer.

>>5104610
This.

>>5104539
>>5104523
Plens, Zerkalo is the greatest film of all time. No competition.

>>5104437
Paranoia Agent is probably the highest quality television series.

I don't I know what movie would fit there, but I don't think it's Citizen Kane.

Beethoven's 9th is certainly not the peak of "classical" music.

You're probably right about the other two.

>>5105119
>wicked and les mis
come on man, broadway musicals aren't really that special for anything beyond just the spectacle of them. it doesn't help that you picked two of the most plebby musicals

>>5105252
but vidya is mass marketed crap that appeals to 12 year olds with a power fantasy

>>5106632
>tfw racist and can't get through the wire
what am i supposed to do bros

>>5117850
this

>>5111638
>rach
>best russian composer

It's like you haven't even listened to Shostakovich's string quartets or any Stravinsky past his early ballets.

>>5114432
>Filosofem

The second half is fucking garbage m8

>>5118365
The fact that he said "Go to the Sydney Opera house" as opposed to "see Don Giovanni" should say enough with regard to his understanding of music drama.

>>5104465
>critics

That doesn't mean that you may enjoy other things more, even if those are considered better.

>>5104472
>one of the greatest works of music ever.
lol

>>5120609
>Don Giovanni
>not The Barber of Seville and The Marriage of Figaro

>>5104773
I like Only Yesterday more than most of Miyazaki's stuff, but whatever. Have you seen Takahata's new film based on The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter? It looks brilliant

>>5120754
Just realized that post was from 3 days ago lol

If Trout Mask Replica is the best work of "popular music", while Beethoven's 9th symphony is the best work of "high-brow music" or whatever, then what's the best work of "popular literature"?

>>5104437
Write your own Ulysses. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another. When you're done, write another...

>>5120762
James Patterson's Kiss the Girls of course

>>5104437
You've yet to attend the greatest play.

>>5104437
Dog Star Man

this is the penultimate.


The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes

This is the last.

Then you may die.

consuming art is for the plebeian
plebeians are not truly alive

>>5120782
I almost thought you used the word penultimate incorrectly but you at the last second you saved it