/lit/ - Literature

The Second Sex is probably the most famous and definitive example of feminist philosophy.

I don't think any significant thinker indicated those things subordinated women, except Iragary. Those are what made feminism possible.

Feminist philosophy is all about wrestling with the spooks of society women have and fall victim to which they blame on men.

They do not realize that these are just spooks and have not transcended their infantile way of viewing the world, unlike us men.

Whatever the individual woman wants it to be, m8
Feminister says it's all based in The Second Sex, but that doesn't seem to be so outside of Feminister

>>5087616
>reason, science, and the search for truth

Nice definition of philosophy you've got there.

An attempt at falsifying the world through ignorance. Kind of like Christianity.

another braindead fuck feminism thread

heidegger started all the identity-speak in earnest. start with him if you don't like it

There is an advertising campaign in the UK for a supermarket in called Iceland. The slogan is "That's why mums go to Iceland", featuring a grinning mother in a variety of shopping situations. Contemporary feminism is a reaction against the many things like that the we virtually don't notice anymore. The fact that post-fordian capitalism thrives on an artificial gender divide.

>>5087653

*post-freudian, excuse me

>>5087653
>gender differences
>artificial

>>5087669
Stellar rebuke. I applaud the effort you made. Now sit back with a beer and watch the football while your wife does the hoovering and cleaning.

>>5087669

*tips fedora*

>>5087693
>*whoring and rimming

>>5087653

maybe we should teaching mums not to go to Iceland, instead of boys not to rape

that example is completely trivial anyway, if you actually want feminism to have legitimacy you should focus on bigger issues than people make stereotypes, which happens regardless of anything

>>5087669
>Expecting liberal arts majors to know basic biology

>>5087693
What do you think of Hjernevask?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0tg8_hjernevask-brainwashing-in-norway-english-part-1-the-gender-equality-paradox_news

>>5087772
I'm a liberal arts major, m8...

>>5087649

>>5087628
What's a spook. I've seen that word here a few times.

>>5087616
Well you see, the 21st century is all about oppression (the more its in your head, the better), so feminism has a real strong drive right now to uplift women whom they see as being oppressed by men throughout society. Theory aside, its just a really great way to get your birth control and abortions subsidized by the government, get jobs easier, and get admittance into colleges you would otherwise have been denied from. Feminism!

>>5087801
Stuff Stirner said, think of it as equivalent to "social construct" when people say it here on /lit/

>>5087805
Social constructs are spooks, but so are personal constructs

>>5087801
A spook is an essence.

>>5087810
>she still uses that trip

Do you have a blog or a twitter or a facebook page you'd like to share with us? Have you written anything you'd like us to read? You may as well parlay your notoriety into some real benefit.

>mfw feminist critiques of Heidegger
>implying fundamental ontology is sexist
>women admitting they're a fundamentally different type of being than men

>>5087814
>fmnstr cherrypicks stirnerism to her anti-essentialist pomo agenda

more news at fucking 7.

>>5087814

>implying universal essences don't exist

>>5087653
There is no artificial

>>5087825
>implying my chaktas don't have a higher power rating than yours, giving me third vibrational sowaah insight, trumping your knowledge which relies upon brown energy

>>5087819
Of course she does. Women really have a hard time understanding power,

>>5087832
>females attempting humour

>>5087625
The hand looks like a long thin neck extending to her head.

>>5087832
not the guy, but you're a disgrace to philosophy.

An essence is just a quality of a thing. In Aristotelian philosophy, essentia are the qualities that make the thing as such.

You can handwave about how those are "spooks" but that's not what Stirner meant at all.

>>5087844

I agree, that is bad cover design for sure.

>>5087848
Women can't handle philosophy. The study is just as short in women as math and other STEM fields.

>>5087848
>posting anime on an anime imageboard
Get out

>>5087848
And there are no universal qualities.

>You can handwave about how those are "spooks" but that's not what Stirner meant at all.
"With ghosts we arrive in the spirit-realm, in the realm of essences."

>>5087833
>>5087843
>>5087861
And you.

Quit shitposting about women.

>>5087866
>>>/tumblr/

>>5087866
I would post an image to prove that there is no samefagging but I'm too lazy for your retardation today.

>>5087866
I'm not shitposting about women, dude. Power and discipline are exercised openly, strictly and clearly on men. Men are simply more dangerous, and thus deal with power more directly every day. Women really just don't understand the power struggle that exists in every facet of the world, at least not how it's seen by men

Feminister should be reading Bentham and Dworkin, not Stirner. Moral nihilism has nothing to offer women

>>5087861
How much Arendt have you read?

>>5087876
Not enough for me not to say tits or gtfo

>>5087873
Moral nihilism has nothing to offer to anyone with a brain.

>>5087863
Stirner's denial of essence is inner-social, like most of his philosophy. Nothing to do with Platonism or Aristotelianism or nominalism or qualia or any of the "essences" usually referred to as "universal qualities".

>>5087863
honest question: if Stirner were alive, would you be fangirling hard over him?

>>5087914
yeah

i'm trying to suss out where i stand on feminism, and i'm interested on where you guys stand

the "empowerment of women", women contributing to culture in the way (primarily) men have throughout history, having more female icons/protagonists on the world stage/in popular media, the transition from the passive female role to an active one...all this i can and do support. women are, to put it crudely, an exciting, virtually untapped resource

i start to to feel ambivalent though, when i see a (widespread) discord between discourse and reality. it's not an easy transition, to be fair. most women (relative to men) lived easy, comfortable lives throughout history, some not having to support or provide for themselves at any stage in their lives. and when you see a large proportion of your female peers living the same lives of their mothers, grandmothers etc. (except maybe with an arts degree), who are all the while shouting for "empowerment!" and "change!", you start to get a bit cynical. even so, i still think the fundamental feminist message is legitimate. we just have to consider removing the things that act as a crutch (i.e. alimony, conscription, custody laws). much of the common "victimisation" discourse is pretty detrimental at times as well

>>5087996
the changing roles of men ought to have more of a prominent place in discussion too

>>5087669
Some of them are.

>>5088003

Hahaha, fuck yes, you saved this pic of Sue Lyon when I posted it some months ago.

>>5088006
what can i say m8, she's a qt

>>5088006
You posted it in reply to me when I said leftists have shit understanding of history in the history thread lmfao
Any person who believes in the Marxian view of history is a dummy dumb-dumbs, btw

>>5088015
no doubt, and Kiernan Shipka is her second coming.

>>5087625

See, Feminister, you shit? You don't need a trip in order to be remembered here. Go ahead and turn it off, try anonymity for a change. Dive in. The water's fine.

>>5088006
>>5088021

>>5088028
>not being separately remembered for both your trip AND stuff you say when you haven't got your trip on

>>5088028
i just want you to know that i read this post in tyrone's voice.

>>5088023
eh she's too on-the-nose for me

el greco's mary or one of bougie's nymphs are more my speed

>>5087640
goddammit, that bitch us homely

>>5088062
That's Dave Grohl from Nirvana and Foo Fighters, you shit cunt.

>>5088051
Good, that was my authorial intention.

>tfw I have achieved literary success

Now all that's left is to drink myself to sleep.

Good morrow, sir!

*flourishes cape*

>>5088088
Was literally just about to say this.

Nigga >>5088062 you gay.

modern feminists are entitled cunts. third wave stuff preaches false dichotomies. my understanding of mary wollstonecraft was that she was one of the women who could look at the truth, wrote stuff about how women are happy in the "gilt cage" and stuck on "sensibility". You couldnt say that shit to modern feminists theyd screaming "shaming", "degrading".

where is this shit going, seriously? Its getting more hysterical with every day

>>5088284

idk, neo-mysogyny probably

Feminism is not a philosophy. Gender equality is just common sense from an economic point of view.

Women are the future.

Adam's gene-pool will corrupt, we need to transcend man.

Feminism is just aesthetics. Or cultural critique... Contintental stuff... Right?

>>5087616
10 Blame (white) men for everything
20 Goto 10

>>5088361
>Women transcending men
Would that be possible from a technological standpoint? Say someone developed an artificial sperm that carried genetic code to unfertilized eggs. Then you could have births without needing sperm from men. Would that be possible, though unlikely?
I'm a man, so I'd be against that. I'd like to keep my freedom and my sperm.

>>5088361
>« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ »
HAHHA, DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS

>>5088374
lel no

but let butterfly have her dreamz

>>5088382
Not going to lie, but that episode of Rick and Morty is what I thought of when I read her post and wrote mine. Can't wait for season two.

>>5088361
Cloning is the future?

>>5088390
Death is the future.

Feminism means you can listen to women and accept what they have to say.

>>5088398
Death is silent.

>>5088401
We're all silent here, trip.

I have studied feminism, and I identify as a feminist, and I am not quite sure what the hostility is all about. I find it peculiar that the attitudes of so many guys here is that women are objects for their sexual desires; they do not understand that women have their own psychologies and experiences that are different and less accommodated in society. Funnily enough, people on here recognise this is the case for transsexual and homosexual individuals. It is recognising that the binary system that most people work with, male and female, is nonsense; gender and sexuality is fluid and the underlying sex of a person is only relevant insofar as limiting the experiential aspect of gender. A trans woman/man will never be a cis woman/man because they wont have the biological experiences to be the sum total of such a gender category, e.g. a trans woman will never have the same type of violence perpetrated to them (although violence is perpetrated towards them), menstruate or worry about pregnancy, naturally develop breasts and so forth. They may have comparable experiences, but experiential differences exist. The cis woman will never have the experience of dissonance between mind and socially-prescribed gender.
They are separate categories of gender, if we even chose to categorize; each is deserving respect as fundamentally persons.

We need structures in society that recognise the unique experiences of persons, women, gender non-conforming, and so forth. In fact, it would actually benefit most of the individual on 4chan if the preferential treatment of hyper-masculine, Anglo men were to stop. Similarly, it would be beneficial if women could pursue their goals, have voices and share the same legal rights men take for granted.

>>5088401
Not always.

>>5088416
I'm not a trip.

Feminism is just an emotional take on class warfare

If the ruling class was filled with transracial womyn it would be just as bad because of the existence of a ruling class.

To imply that white men took power due to their race or gender, implies that they are more capable of taking power than others. Which in turn implies that non white men are inferior

In other words, to be feminist is inherently sexist and racist

>>5088437
>I find it peculiar that the attitudes of so many guys here is that women are objects for their sexual desires
kek

>>5088465
Elucidate.

>>5088347
it has only been common sense since the industrial revolution, tech could finally compensate for women. even though it's sensible now, women still are less productive than men.

>>5088437
no
it is widely agreed, historically, that women need to be kept in their place by the males. they need guidance from us and are not capable of making their own decisions. they also need to remain somewhat disabled so that it's easier to plow them. sad but true

>>5088361
women can't even transcend themselves.

>>5088485
There is no point talking to you at all.

>>5088491
Of course there isn't, he's a tripfag.

>>5088399
but what if it's really really stupid?

>>5088491
sorry that feminism makes no strong arguments

>>5088448
Such dull wit. You must get it from all that Vidal you read.

>>5088485
Hey, pretty god, good thing that we agree. I am a Plowman myself, your mum fill you on the details.
Cheers.

>>5088437

>Similarly, it would be beneficial if women could pursue their goals, have voices and share the same legal rights men take for granted.

here's where your post loses all credibility. how are any of these things not true? this isn't the early 20th century.

>preferential treatment of hyper-masculine, Anglo men were to stop

that only happens because that's what women find attractive. attractiveness can't be changed.

>We need structures in society that recognise the unique experiences of persons, women, gender non-conforming, and so forth. In fact

if you're going to bring up these things then why not be more specific instead of sounding as vague as every other idealist

>>5088361
>women are the future

you're probably right. globalization and widespread automation is pushing social harmony towards the top of our cultural values. i just fucking hope to god you birds don't wallow in complacency (see: the majority of history)

>>5088532
>this isn't the early 20th century.
Because everyone lives in Burgerland.

>>5088060
Ma nig

>>5087669

gender differences dont have to be entirely artificial for post-freudian capitalism to thrive on artificial ones

>>5088656

see this is why its so hard to talk about feminism

there are feminists who think that we in Burgerland dont have the kind of equality mentioned in previous posts, and then there are feminists who are more concerned with the state of women in other cultures

there are so many kinds of feminist that any criticism has a "well the COOL feminists dont abide that shit" response that kinda misses the point kinda deals with the point

>>5087616
The axioma of feminism is that men oppress women.

Feminism is merely a small piece of a larger issue that faces modern society. Social alienation caused by 'modernization' targets all people, not just women. Women are affected in a specific way, as are men and any other group of people you can think of. It is only through addressing the big picture that equality for women can be attained. Inequality of the sexes is a symptom of a larger problem, not the problem itself.

Feminist philosophy is a critique of society in the same way that Marxism is a critique of capitalism.

Egalitarianism is the end solution of feminism in the same way that communism is the end solution of Marxism.

>>5087625
>second wave feminism
>third wave feminism
LEL. Unscientific rusiety. Women are oppressed more than anyone in the world, but lying and pretending that men and women are the same is wrong.

>>5089101
Are you equating Capitalism to the Patriarchy? Because capitalism actually exists.

>2014
>responding to Feminister
Remember, if you ignore this little whore (pic related), then she will go away back to /pol/

>>5089110
She probably came here to get some dark chocolate, since her daddy and brothers on /pol/ forbid her to eat it..... you know how women react to being forbidden to do something, look no further than the apple.

>>5089110
>colored hair
How could I not have known?

>>5089110

isn't that a porn star

>>5089140
No, that is Feministslut

>>5089110

it's not feminister; it's this girl "ashley" aka "amazing eyes girl"

>>5089151

>>5089157

>>5089162

>>5089151
Definitely not her, m8

>>5089107
>Pretending the patriarchy doesn't exist

*tips fedora*

>>5089175
*tips porkpie*

>>5089175


maybe a patriarchy exists

but not "the patriarchy", that all encompassing and totally unambiguous advantage all men have over women

If you're a white conservative male u should be anti feminist. If you're nonwhite poor liberal or female u should support feminism

>>5089188
[tipping intensifies]

>>5089167
Not sure if female....

>>5088361
>>5088401
Hey hey. Knock that off.
>>5088448
You're not even me.

>>5089172
All five aren't Femi

>>5089185
Is that a dyke? I really can't tell.

>>5089194
only the first one is her, butterface

>>5089189
Just another rich white people tell the poor what to think campaign.

Read Nietzsche.

>>5089202
>butterface

I Laughed In Real Life #InternetLife

>>5089202
She posted the picture on /pol/ (archive.4plebs.org/pol/ not sure of the thread) and it was a 4chan image grab. Not her. I know.

>>5089213
Pic related, you camwhore, you.

>>5089198
>men who self identify as feminists
No

>>5089219
where the pic

>>5089229
This one, >>5089110 and how it's not her?
Yeah, I don't have the link, but it's on that archive site. From December or January.

>>5089225
Thousands of men support social equality and accountability, and are mature and educated enough to not be scared of the 1st wave remnant 'femin' at the start of the term.

>>5089219
Shut the hell up butterface, your posts all are around getting up fem's vag, stop being a pathetic sycophant for 5 minutes in a day

The most fascinating thing about butterfly is how when one dies, another few are inspired to take its place.

>I was the one who got everyone to post as butterfly one day.

>I was also the first butterfly.

>>5089239
I am not a sycophant. I read her posts, but now this is more about you guys obsession with getting her pics.
Poor Reve had pics for you, but you push her away. You're all so strange.
Work.
Cue the impostor.

>>5089239
>What in the actual fuck is feminist philosophy?
It's a reaction to little boy terms like this:
>>5089239
>Shut the hell up butterface
From appearing in the vernacular.

>>5089244
Why must you turn this into a board of lies!
Hssssssssssss

>>5087873
More about power struggles? I notice this in every fucking relationship. Super annoying ...

>>5089244
I was butterfly for about 6 weeks a year or two ago. The previous butterfly (you?) got incredibly annoyed when I repeatedly made drug references and posted with British spellings.

>>5089265

I was before that, around the end of 2011.

>>5089259
wow u look like my mom

>>5089269

she had a filthy mug?

>>5089269
does that arouse you?

>>5089268
>I was before that, around the end of 2011.
Aaah, you were the one talking about the late Hitchens a lot, pre-atheist hating days?

>>5089279

A bit, yes.

>>5089189
I am nonwhite and on the left, but feminism can suck my big nigger dick.

>>5089252
So you don't flatter her on every fucking post? Why are you such a goddamn liar?
>wurst wuman

>>5089284
*tips fedora*

>>5089272
>>5089274
seriously though she got the wrinkles right

>>5089237
oh are you trying to shame us? that's fucking adorable

>>5089235
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/25075939/

>>5089292
You shame yourself. You'll reminisce on these posts when you're a grown up and cringe at your childhood foolishness.

>>5089299

Take note comrades: in future, always remember to insinuate that you are more mature than your opponent, and insist that when they gain more life experience they will agree with you.

Fem is pretty retarded in her opinions but she's no butterfly. Butterfly is the 50s stereotype of a woman personified in 2014, you know, completly removed from reality, jumps from subject to subject without continuity, babbles on and on, your words beyond the simplest don't register...

At least with Fem you get a sense that there's hope.

OP is retarded.

>>5087873
>no understanding of history

>>5088389
>rick and morty
die in a fire

>>5087996

Women need to learn violence, and they need to toughen up. Shit, we all do, but at least men know there's a problem. Women need to stop telling everyone (and themselves) how liberated they are, and demonstrate it to everyone through actions. They talk an awful lot about being strong and independent, but they aren't often called upon to prove it, hence all the posturing and bluster.

They denigrate everything they ought to be learning as 'macho bullshit'. A specious cop-out so that they can avoid learning how to take care of themselves like every human ought to. When a young man grows up unable to defend himself, he feels ashamed. Women not only expect to be protected, but they don't even realise that this is just another manifestation of chauvinism at work inside their heads.

If you want a successful feminism, then the association between masculinity and violence has to be eroded. Also we're going to have to start beating women. Not in the domestic context, of course, but just generally.

>>5089376

>Also we're going to have to start beating women. Not in the domestic context, of course, but just generally.

has anyone read this? thoughts?

no MRA shills please

>>5087653
Elaborate on this artificial divide because it sounds like massive bullshit to me.

>>5089383
e.g. Women can't be empowered because the most primitive human conflict, violence, grossly favors men

>>5089261
Foucault knows quite a bit about how power is exercised

>>5089320
Feministers ideas don't evolve though. It's like she read four philosophy books two years ago and just cycles those ideas because studying anything else would be too hard

>>5089422

AIDS

>>5087873
>Women really just don't understand the power struggle that exists in every facet of the world
You should think twice about that, really.

>>5089261
But you may want to consider the cultural meme of prison rape, for one. A purely anti-male exercise in humiliation and emasculation. Always in the back of men's minds, the "true" threat of prison. Women rightly complain of sexual assault, but at least theirs isn't a literal institutionalized threat

>>5089431
Do you care to explain how it's wrong instead of expressing vague distaste? Your comment is worthless to me intellectually

>>5089431
They don't though, because they don't really understand anything. They deal with everything in life indirectly, even themselves.

>>5089480
Why do people like you bother coming to a literature forum?

>>5089485
Why do people like you not take the time to consider the different experiences of being male and female? It's hyperbolic, but yes, life is different for men and women and feminism often states hyperbolically that women get the shit end of the stick. That's not that women don't experience shit, we all do. It's that this stupid cultural division created by identity politics gets us riled up at the wrong targets, so feminism is really just a waste of everyone's time

>>5089485
I'm not the one throwing shallow insults around.

>>5089399
started reading it it was too depressing to finish.

btw be careful who you talk about this book to, i personally keep it a secret that i read a little bit of it. but this book definitely drops a pill that most feminists wouldnt want to swallow