/lit/ - Literature

>>5065252
You just need to read the apology, the crito and phaedo to realize his enormous influence.

Not to mention all his other shit. And then aristoteles.

>>5065298
what did u get out of it? i already read some of his works including the apology, the crito and phaedo, And i dont see the big deal

>>5065306
In the Phaedo, Plato or rather Socrates lays the foundation of the christian after-life, as well as the scientific method, the critical mindset of the west.
In the apology we see the athenian legal system in action, which later would influence the roman civil law.

In the Crito we learn why freedom and freedom of though is more important than living.

All works are crucial to "The Western Mindset"

>tfw Plato fucked up the course of western civilization for thousands of years

>>5065306
Also dualism.

>>5065313
ok lets get rid of this "western mindest" propaganda bullshit. chinua achebe "things fall apart" displayed the same story and legal system. and if im not mistaken Socrates was heavily influenced by Confucius

"In the Crito we learn why freedom and freedom of though is more important than living." ok i agree with this.... but your response tells me what he showed you, im asking what did you learn from it? (i got nothing out of it)...

>>5065364
edit: that is not to say plato's texts did not influence chinua's book, but he was writing about a populous undergoing colonization and the change of such society. the whole legal system would have been the same in any free state. Regardless of location and race; which this portrays

>>5065364
lmao

>>5065364

Are you an actual retard?

>>5065298
Does anything suggest all the shit we consider obvious today is really due to *Plato*, or did he just formalise the ideas of his time?

>>5065431
wow, we discussing Plato, if you are unable to keep up, please refrain yourself from commenting and watch how the big boys do it,

>>5065465

Great point, but who is to say that without his record of the time, his "ideas" would not have been any common sense today? We act like before plato/socrates the world was dumb and knew nothing

>>5065465
Well, there might have been other that had the same ideas, but platos texts and aristoteles are the ones that remain and those were the texts that all classical scholars later read as well as the church.

I really dont see how that is an issue.

>>5065364
Are there any proof to suggest that plato was heavily influenced by Confucius? Is he referenced? Are there any text/scrolls or whatever that travelled from China to Greece at the time? That is very unlikely.

>>5065578
Confucius (551–479 BC)

Plato 428/427 or 424/423 BC[a] – 348/347 BC

I seriously doubt that Confucious learnings had become so widespread as to travel from China over Middle East and then Greece in order to get translated for Plato to read in that time-period.

>The first major step in the development of the Silk Road was the expansion of the Greek empire of Alexander the Great into Central Asia. In August 329 BC

The silk road into Greece started later.

William Gass on Plato

"I have been teaching Plato for fifty years. I know I have sometimes bored my students, but Plato has never bored me. His dialogues are among the world’s most magical texts. I remember how the Republic set fire to my head, and among the other dialogues it is difficult to choose a favorite, but I should say, now, that the Timaeus strikes me as his strangest, and perhaps his most profound—at once most mystical and mysterious, hardheaded and mathematical. Beneath the surface of this “likely story” of how the universe was formed, Plato’s conception of our world, as the qualitative expression of quantitative law, runs like a river."

>>5065578
>>5065594
Forget the term "translated" as in texts, because as one of you stated plato is famous for being a surviving texts.I don't have "proof" perhaps for the exact reason, but i will say this,just like Socrates Confucius did not write, words travel, The silk road is big because its a land route, that does not mean merchants and oher trading routes where ideas are spread werent avalible..... But i think we are getting off tangent here.... answer the original question what did YOU learn from it

>>5065704
I read it more from a historical perspective and I learned the influence the greeks had on the western world.

That aside, I think I gained more respect for the integrity of the soul, the need of virtues, the understanding of my vices and overall desire to write and engage with the rest of society, and ultimately the importance of the word.

Socrates, Plato and Aristoteles cures me from my apathy towards humanity.

>>5065735
This are the types of responses I'm looking for.. Great post. But i still think they are much better examples to cure your apathy towards humanity and the power of the word. ex: Malcolm x

it has no new ideas, just promotes circlejerking over personalities.

>>5066966
People don't always follow ideals, they follow other people who represent their ideals.

>>5065252

Sure, OP.

It's an important moment in every student's life to get obsessed with ancient Greece. Well, I read your Homer, tragedies, Herodotus... all awesome. (Aesop, Pindar, and Xenophon particularly stood out to my taste.)

Then Plato comes along and just completely changes the game.

First, he manages to show in his writing that writing and literature are essentially inferior to conversation.

Then, as far as I know, he completely pioneers a dynamic narrative voice through which he can criticize or praise beliefs without implicating judgment against his reputation.

He puts craftsmanship on parade, which really characterizes the culture of Athens. I think that he is second only to Aristophanes in this regard.

He is just thorough and intellectually honest. If you look at a text like the Republic, you see a guy who wanted to examine the concept of human justice. But he soon realizes that in order for justice to emerge, he needs a theory of art, craft, culture, identity, knowledge, ignorance, ethics, politics... and he just goes for it.

He's self-aware. He'll mock himself pretty openly when he has to go on about a topic at length.
He approaches problems in the field of philosophy in a pretty fresh way, too. Being and becoming, what's static and what's in motion-- he discussed these as they relate to human thought, memory, and wakefulness. That's interesting.

>>5065315

>I heard my professor say this, so I'll add it to my bank of opinions about authors I haven't read!

>>5067022
More like, I heard Stephan Molyneux say it...

>>5067002
>ywn smell her hair

why is life so cruel?

>>5065252
All philosophy after Plato was just footnotes.

>>5067029

literally who

>>5065252
I'm not sure I could say Plato is the most influential ever. In fact, I would probably rank Aristotle as much more influential. In fact I would most likely also put Descartes above the influence of Plato as well, given that, even as bad as he was at philosophy and arguments, he basically ushered in modern philosophy.

That aside, I would never advocate reading only Plato, and definitely not for enlightenment. You should of course read him, because you will encounter the problems and arguments Plato brought to the fore throughout modern philosophical discourse and even in everyday life. It will help you consider arguments more critically, recognize bad ones, and formulate better ones. It will give you a better appreciation for the difficulty and elusiveness of truth, meaning, and virtue.

I haven't read all of Plato's works. I've read Crito, Phaedo, Symposium, Republic, Euthyphro, Apology, and Seventh Letter.

I would highly recommend all of them based on the above summary, and I plan on reading more Plato myself.

As a disclaimer, I highly recommend against falling into the trap of self-identifying with some philosopher or philosophy. You should be looking for what is wrong with a philosophy, including ones that you like and even your own ideas, not just what is right.

>>5065315
What do you mean?

>>5067099

BLATO WAS A FABDSCIDST :DDDDDD XD XD

>>5067002
I agree with this.

>>5065252
Yale does, its like Confucius never existed, totally Eurocentric.

>>5067002
Thats what was shown, not what was learned by you

>>5065536

>>5065252

His prose is horrible. And that's all you need to know about Plato.

>>5068096
what philosopher other than plato didn't over complicate simple ideas by using useless nomenclature and sophistry

>>5067176
>totally Eurocentric.

Not really. Plato (and the Greek tradition in general) was also one of the foundations of Arabic philosophy.

>>5065315
Evola please.

>>5067176
>philosophy
>existing before Tales
Eurocentric also implies nordics, which weren't part of civilization then.

>>5065252
>compairing an aryan myth with a semitic myth
JDIF pls

>>5067054
The most based philosopher of our time, Stefan Molyneux.

>>5068666
Isn't that the guy who made Black & White

>>5068670
>Black & White
Nah that's Peter Molyneux, no relation. Stefan is a philosopher, focuses a lot on parenting, anarchism, and atheism. Check him out on YouTube or go to his website Free Domain Radio to download his books (All free).

>>5068670
Nah, Stefan is a cunt

Plato's work has literally no content.

>>5067056

I still that's vague somewhat. Plato's critique on democracy is common sense. His view on the nature of mankind, usually comes with age. And his/socrates argument about justice in crito reached a subjective concusion. overall i think he is overrated...

You don't need Plato for this: "It will help you consider arguments more critically, recognize bad ones, and formulate better ones. It will give you a better appreciation for the difficulty and elusiveness of truth, meaning, and virtue."