/lit/ - Literature

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

these are degenerate times...

>>5065009
>Buddhist philosophy rests on a completely false view of reality stemming from extreme brain manipulation to eliminate the normal functioning of the brain's sense of self center.
muh appeal to nature

try again

>>5065009
Well it looks like you can skip the "If you meet the buddha along the road, kill him" step and go straight to Jiddu Krishnamurti.

>>5065009
>hat then is the real difference between Buddhist brain manipulation to avoid psychic pain, "suffering", and avoiding psychic pain by using drugs to manipulate brain functioning?
>In short, there is no "Enlightenment" in Buddhism as it is based on a single brain state projected out to the whole world.
You're probably one of those cunts that thinks that love isn't real because it's "just chemicals in the brain". Why could an altered mental state not be enlightenment?

>>5065009
Your mum isn't real. She's just a repeating set of neuron firings in your skull.

>>5065285
One sort of enlightenment.

>muh pov
>muh standards

>"Please sir come join our club and shut off parts of your brain to reach a state where you're like the guys we worship!"

>>5065009
You misunderstand the Buddha's stance on anything related to metaphysics or "Ultimate Reality".

You set up a false stance of Buddhism because of this.

This can easily be shown by some of the last comments of your post. Earlier in the post you keep referring to a criteria which allows you to judge a "false" or "true" sense of reality. You never give any justification for this until the end. This takes the form of:
>It takes a whole brain to deal effectively with reality-

Listen, if you have a different value system, you have a different value system. But what you are saying doesnt make sense, you are not working with the concepts or systems of Buddhism, which you need to if you want to have a conversation about it.

It would be like me saying math is stupid because they dont have letters that are as pretty as the letter A or O.

>>5065289
But that's real, just as real as the world i vividly create with the help of fetishes, symbols printed on paper representing words which, which i then connect to memory to place together an entire scape..

I'd say shes as real as your wow games.

This thread is dumb

>>5065309
I know right

>>5065290
What's wrong with any of that? It's like therapy for an ailment everyone has.

>>5065318
something is wrong with you, quick join us so we can fix you up, here do this, it will kill the evil part of your brain!

>>5065321
Literally any spiritual tradition, religion, philosophy, ideology etc.

Again, what's wrong with any of that?

>>5065355
quick goy buy our medecines, this tiger penis will make you like warrior

>>5065355
It undermines our ability to learn and develop.

>>5065009
>a completely false view of reality stemming from extreme brain manipulation to eliminate the normal functioning of the brain's sense of self center. All Buddhist ideology stems from brain manipulation to avoid psychic pain by closing down the brain's sense of self center and shunting electrical activity to the frontal lobes, especially the right frontal lobes where pleasure centers can be excited that are associated with the oceanic egoless consciousness that accompanies the shut down of the brain's sense of self center.
>sense of self center

Muh neurobabble.

>>5065458
But to diagnose problems and fix them is learning and developing. Also, your idea that one ought to learn and develop is in itself a doctrine.

Try meditating op, then come back when you have an actual understanding.

>>5065009
>, i.e. the whole "Void" idea merely projects the actual void created in the Buddhist brain where the sense of self center should be operating but is effectively tranquilized.


Is dis.....wait....is dis nigga for real?

The Void is a metaphor. The Void is not empty, It contains the whole universe. It has no opposite, nothing to compare it to, so it is simply called the Void.

In meditation you don't 'shut off' parts of the brain. You don't DO anything. You simply sit and observe, allowing the brain to do what it does. It's as scientific an observation that you can possibly do on your own subjective consciousness.

What is the 'Ultimate Reality' or being a Buddha like? It's exactly the same thing as your normal waking consciousness, except you are aware that you are synonymous with the Void. That's it, that's the big secret, the whole deal. 'I and the Father are one' as The Dude said once.

>completely false view of reality stemming from extreme brain manipulation to eliminate the normal functioning of the brain's sense of self center
top kek
stop posting at any time

What a crock of pseudo intellectual shit OP.

You've made some kind of horrendous Frankenstein out of neuroscience, eastern and western philosophy.

A little less pessimism and you could easily find yourself in New Age best seller territory.

The main question is, what is memory? Hypnotized people perceive no pain where normally their brains at first projected emotional trauma unto an event. We can thus say emotion is the traitor inside, the creator of the false memory. In order to accept this you have to accept the broadest, highest definition of original sin possible, namely that we come from mushroom addicted monkeys and that we are prone to hallucinations, emotions, emotional thoughts, call it what you wish. Most people don't have the power to accept this, they'd rather be sick all their life. Buddhism has the merit of reducing the brain to the motoric functions solely, this is basic medicine, a thing fully lacking from psychology. The west is doomed and buddha is now seen as a relic, many will suffer because the last link to health has been thrown away by the decadence of the lazy, existentialistnonsensewalking species par excellence.

>>5065009
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-non-naturalism/#NatFal

normal brain function =/= truth

OP played spin the wheel and got "Sam Harris as a pre-teen".

>>5065009
Buddha was just a guy that said some stuff, you know?

>implying

Thank you for that post, OP.

Science wins once again. Fuck religion.

>>5065458
>It undermines our ability to learn and develop.
Learn and develop what?

So far all we've (collectively) learned and developed is novel ways to masturbate and ensure that our genes aren't passed down.

>>5065009

enlightenment has nothing to do with the brain, although it might have some side-effects on it

Enlightenment has to do with the Universe or the Void itself

>Buddha stops having desires
>that includes love and attachments
>Buddha reaches Nirvana, a state of no desires
>Buddha returns to mankind to enlighten them even though he should have no attachment to mankind or any desire to help them
Stupid.
Buddhism is about being a selfish prick that doesn't want to help others because it hurts.

This is literally copy and pasted from /x/

>>>/x/14795929

>>5069037
>>Buddha stops having desires

cravings =/= desire

>>that includes love and attachments

attachments yes, love no. Buddhas are better able to love.

>>Buddha reaches Nirvana, a state of no desires

Wrong understanding of nirvana.

>Buddha returns to mankind to enlighten them even though he should have no attachment to mankind or any desire to help them

That is a boddhisatva, not a fully enlightened buddha. Very different beings.

>be biased 4chan plebs
>read few wikipedia articles about buddhism
>rush to conclusions with absolute certainty because fedora
>post on /lit/ and or /x/ about it
>expect people to bother wasting their time refuting such shit tier thoughts
>think you've won when based anons give up and leave you to wander in your ignorance

this cycle never ends

>>5065281
>Jiddu Krishnamurti.
dont even get me started on dis nigga

>>5065009
>Smoke a joint if you want to avoid psychic pain is my advice. That way you may not be bamboozled by Buddhist philosophy that looks good on paper but actually harms holistic consciousness necessary to deal with complex reality.

op actually believes inhaling burnt marijuana is more useful and insightful than the entirety of the buddhist tradition

>>5069067
>cravings =/= desire
I'm pretty sure it is.
Give an example of how it is not so.
>attachments yes, love no. Buddhas are better able to love.
If love makes you act, then it is a form of motivator or desire that will make you unhappy.
If love is simply just loving something from a distance, not expecting anything from it, not even it's continued existence, you will end up doing nothing.
>In the Buddhist context nirvana refers to the imperturbable stillness of mind after the fires of desire, aversion, and delusion have been finally extinguished.
So, anyone that has reached Nirvana should have no desire to do anything for anyone.
>That is a boddhisatva, not a fully enlightened buddha.
Bodhisattva means you've reached bodhi (awakening) which include Nirvana.

>>5069110
>Bodhisattva means you've reached bodhi (awakening) which include Nirvana.

bodhisattvas in mahayana tradition take a vow to postpone their nirvana precisely to help people.

caring about helping people is stupid. if someone walks in front of you needing some help, do it. otherwise thinking about the issue at all is very stupid and time wasting.

buddhism does not need to defend itself against yours or anyone elses morality. we all know from the x thread that op is a christian defending his lame ass christianity against col kurtz tier buddhism

heres my impression of op

HEY GUYS I DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS SHIT BUT IMMA PRETEND I DO AND KNOW BETTER THAN IT. PLS RESPOND

op would enjoy harun yahya books - even though he writes for muzlums his book on buddhism will go down well at your church, since it's so full of ignorance like your posts

>>5069037

The Buddha returned because Brahman and the other gods begged him to teach what he had learned to the rest of humanity so that they too might reach enlightenment.

do you even into basic research before critiquing?

>>5069110
>Give an example of how it is not so.

it's like the difference between a simple intention and an obsession.

a craving is a particular type of extreme desire clouded by ignorance and fantasies.

>If love is simply just loving something from a distance, not expecting anything from it, not even it's continued existence, you will end up doing nothing.

You are free to act without delusions and cravings regarding that love. If it needs help you help it. If it needs guidance you guide it.

It is more altruistic than attachment love, so your actions are directed towards the other's well-being, not your own.

>So, anyone that has reached Nirvana should have no desire to do anything for anyone.

Desire is not the right word, since in English it also means intention or act of will.
Nirvana does not extinguish your will and freeze you in space and time.

The sense of "desire" that applies here is the sense of a strong craving or borderline obsession, etc.

>>5069116
>bodhisattvas in mahayana tradition take a vow to postpone their nirvana precisely to help people.
Which is stupid and filled with contradictions. If you first reach Nirvana, you shouldn't be able to postpone it, since you have no desire to do so.
Also, helping people goes against all the core teachings of Buddhism. If anything, it's a betrayal of true Buddhism, a return to the desires and morality that caused you "suffering".
>caring about helping people is stupid. if someone walks in front of you needing some help, do it. otherwise thinking about the issue at all is very stupid and time wasting.
The whole point of Buddhism is to remove these automatic desires to do this, and do that.
Be a little self-critical please.

>>5069142
>The sense of "desire" that applies here is the sense of a strong craving or borderline obsession, etc.

craving is specified as being for sensual pleasures, views, for existence, for non-existence. at no place does it mention "craving for helping other beings".

>>5069156
"And what, bhikkhus, is clinging? There are these four kinds of
clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging
to rules and vows, clinging to a doctrine of self. This is called
clinging.s
"And what, bhikkhus, is craving? There are these six classes of
craving: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for
odours, craving for tastes, craving for tactile objects, craving for
mental phenomena. This is called craving.

>>5069151
>The whole point of Buddhism

honestly what da fug do you know about this shit you dumb fuck?

>>5069151
>Also, helping people goes against all the core teachings of Buddhism

>be buddhist history
>begin with buddha's decision to help people instead of being a solitary realizer

durpy durp durp dont mind me just op durp durp durpin around town

>>5065009
Why hello Mara, we meet again. ;-)

>There's no way Buddha or Buddhism knows about "Ultimate Reality"

>uses a buddhist concept, thus legitimating it
>denies its use to buddhism

/lit/ at its purest

>>5069142
I like your answers. You explain these things well, but will not this altruistic wish to guide if asked induce suffering in the end to?
So you act without being moved by the results?
If it fails, you won't care. If it succeeds, you won't care. Like a robot.

>>5069184
MUH JEBUS IS ONLY TRUF BUDDHA IS FAT LAZY MEXICANO

op i see thru ur shit a mile away - lookin to justify ur christianity cus u no buddhism is fo tough motherfuckers n u aint 1 of them

>>5069156
>at no place does it mention "craving for helping other beings".

that would be unskillful of course, and is very different than "intending/desiring to help other beings"


> it's a betrayal of true Buddhism, a return to the desires and morality that caused you "suffering". The whole point of Buddhism is to remove these automatic desires to do this, and do that.

No the point is to free yourself from delusions and cravings that cause suffering/anguish. The more impediments you remove the more skillful your actions and intentions will become.

If you remove all of them (enlightenment) then your actions, words, life will be very conducive to helping others..Refer to the Buddha's life for example.

>>5069184
>So you act without being moved by the results?

You are still moved and caring and interested. Buddhists see suffering as primarily self-inflicted though.

So if you fail to help someone, you don't add to that failure by cutting yourself with the blade of suffering. You focus on proper action instead.

>>5069243
So you still suffer and feel joy. You just decrease the intensity?
So Buddhism doesn't promise to remove all suffering from your life, just the most of it?
That's all?

>>5065009
Oh hey it's you again! I just thought I was on /x/ again.

The closest thing there is to a sense of self "center" is actually located in the frontal lobes, although as we learned on /x/, consciousness is a much more complicated construct than simply personality and executive function! There are no agreed-upon pleasure centers and emotions as we understand them are controlled by a variety of redundant structures throughout the brain!

I'll also post a link someone left there, because I think it was really interesting, and I like to spread interesting things.

http://www.belligerati.net/archives/2006/07/people_who_have.html

>>5069252
>So you still suffer and feel joy. You just decrease the intensity?

Joy yes.
Suffering becomes zero.
Pain still comes and goes.

>>5069277
>Suffering becomes zero.
>Pain still comes and goes.
That's doublethink.

>>5069088
pls start, i'm new to this

>>5065009

test

>>5069037
op may be a retard and while I kind of agree with you that is not the whole story

I agree much of buddhism seems to be about detaching from others to avoid pain....

But then again if you never walk the path you never really get awareness of whats what and you also gain a mastery of yourself.

beating desire is a good activity to do, giving up on desire forever however is yes selfish.

of course buddha walked back down the mountain and back to society..... anyone who gets to enlightenment and then just sits there is not actually enlightened at all, it is just the end of the beginning.

could have sworn op was putting forward a serious critique until
> It takes a whole brain to deal effectively with reality which to me explains why countries where Buddhist philosophy dominates society they remain backward in social evolution, e.g. Bhutan, Tibet, still caught in feudal society. Smoke a joint if you want to avoid psychic pain is my advice.

>>5069291
Feeling pain does not necessitate suffering from it.

>>5069093
That is probably through though.

>>5069151
man ur one stupid motherfucker

From a medical point of view buddhism is the most harmful religion. By meditating, i.e. sitting around doing literally nothing, you are letting your brain cells die from inactivity. That's why buddhists become dumber and dumber.

>>5070243
>dumber and dumber
Perceived in others but in his mind there's nothing to say or do that'd satisfy his being because he is complete

>>5070243
>i.e. sitting around doing literally nothing, you are letting your brain cells die from inactivity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19735238

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16272874

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12883106

CONCLUSIONS:

These findings demonstrate that a short program in mindfulness meditation produces demonstrable effects on brain and immune function. These findings suggest that meditation may change brain and immune function in positive ways and underscore the need for additional research.