/lit/ - Literature

I could do it in Spanish

>murrican schools

>>5059214
>implying poetry is the only form of literature
do you actually have nothing better to do than start threads like this? fuck off, man.

Can you tell me how big a cloud is from

>>5059227

> being this butthurt

lel

Tell me what meter is this line composed in?

> The world is too much with us, late and soon,

>>5059214
>2014
>reading Eagleton

>>5059214
>it's

gr7 b7
back to /b/

or tumblr

>>5059309
Pentameter. Go away.

>2014
>Verse

Shiggy diggy doo daa.

>>5059738
Iambic pentameter, noob

>>5059786
Having a iambic verse concerns rhythm, not metric, you retarded faggot.

I know summer school seems unfair now, OP, but you have to realize that if you weren't such a useless fuck you would have passed the semester and been free like the rest of your kiddo friends.

>>5059795
Metre IS a structure of rhythm

am I being trolled or is /lit/ really this dumb?

>>5059822
Meter concerns how many feet there are in each verse; rhythm concerns the type of feet that are used in said verse. But honestly, you are uncapable of even punctuating as well as capitalizing correctly. Why don't you just take your leave?

Homer probably couldn't tell you the rhythm and meter of the Iliad, since aidoi learned and sang it intuitively.

>>5059836

>aoidoi

>>5059833
me·ter2
ˈmētər/Submit
noun
noun: metre
the rhythm of a piece of poetry, determined by the number and length of feet in a line.
"the Horatian ode has an intricate governing meter"

>>5059836
OP is the same type of person that thinks if you don't know how you drive a stick-shift, you are a woman.

>>5059867
And...as for a woman who knows how to drive a stick shift?

>>5059883
There is only so much you can ask of a mind.

>>5059885
I aska lot

>>5059227
>implying the line between poetry and literature isn't arbitrary
>>5059822
anyone who's seriously giving you shit about this is a pedant.

>>5059836
Err the only reason they were able to recite thousands of lines of verse from memory was because it had a metrical structure. Otherwise epic oral poetry would be completely impossible.

>>5059895
Oh, they DID. But they didn't consciously measure it, they learned it intuitively. Read Powell's "Homer"

>>5059895
>recite thousands of lines of verse from memory
And by the way, they didn't do that. Aoidoi improvised verse

>>5059915
>But they didn't consciously measure it, they learned it intuitively

What is the difference? Of course prosody wasn't around in 7th century BC Greece. If you asked them the bards wouldn't have been able to tell you it was sung in dactylic hexameter, they would hummed dactylic hexameter to you instead. The point is trivial.

In English poetry there is a ballad metre that comes out of the oral tradition. Did people know that they were speaking in four feet of iambs? No, but they knew that ballad metre was 'how you sing a ballad'.

>>5059833
>meter
>uncapable
>capitalizing

>>5059915

Your argument is really anachronistic. They knew the meter but not the term for the meter which hadn't been invented yet. They obviously knew the meter because they... wrote in metered verse.

>>5059962
>They obviously knew the meter because they... wrote in metered verse.
>plants know how photosynthesis happens because they turn sunlight into energy

>>5059836

You know... I've honestly never seen you say anything intelligent.

>>5059965

Yeh plants make the conscious decision to perform photosynthesis the same way a person would actively decide to write in a specific form of metered verse.

It makes me sort of sad that you think that was a valid, logical analogy and you are probably spending lots of your parents money on an education.

>>5059965
Photosynthesis is natural to plants.
Dactylic hexameter is not a natural speech pattern for humans; it has to be learned

>>5059965


You're playing games with different senses of 'know' in the same context while pretending they are the same.

>>5059962
Aoidos didn't write, I doubt any of them could. Homer was the first to get a "record deal" (a very short time after the advent of writing in Greece), and he mostly likely dictated the Iliad.

Nobody is quite sure what the first copy of the Iliad looked like, but if it was structured by meter, it was according to ear, not according to people actually counting.

>>5059971
I guess you just need to be reading some of the books she's been reading.
Put on a troll-trip next time

>>5060004

> structured by ear
> not according to counting

It's the same thing you dumb fuck.

blank meter always feels like bad prose with weird typesetting, and rhymed poetry reminds me too much of nursery rhymes. Am I reading poetry wrong/

>>5060004
> if it was structured by meter, it was according to ear, not according to people actually counting

???

What the fuck do you think metre is counting?

>>5060019

Yep, I've literally never met anyone with a good understanding of poetry who didn't enjoy and appreciate it.

>>5060024

Seriously. This is what I mean about feminister being really stupid.

>>5060019

By the way what you're calling 'blank meter' is most likely free verse while blank verse refers to unrhymed iambic petameter, which is what Paradise Lost and Shakespeares plays are written in.

>>5060039
still, what should I read?

>>5060088

Well my favourite poets are Emily Dickinson and T.S Eliot so read Emily Dickinson, she was the first poet I remember liking.

>>5060024
Certainly. To say something is "hexameter" requires you to consciously realize it has six feet. If you don't have a conscious notion of what a foot is, then you can't tell someone what the meter of the poem is, can you?

>>5060013
Not for the OP's purposes of being able to tell someone what the meter is.

>>5060179

Feminister they can't say what the meter is because the term hadn't been invented yet, not because they didn't understand that they were writing in verse.

The average med student today knows infinitely more about the human body than did Aristotle who did not even know what a muscle was: yet the two statements "any med student who doesn't know what a muscle is, is is a complete idiot" and "aristotle was a genius" are not mutually exclusive, I am faulting people today who do not know their metrical terms and inviting the comparison to Homer is anahronistic and flawed,

>>5060388
Aoidoi didn't write. There is no evidence that the first copy of the Iliad was written in verse.

I might say that if you don't know how fix a certain thing on a car, then you are an idiot--it certainly has more practical application than knowing a term which doesn't imply any talent.
Of course, even if you were posting on an automotive board, that would be obnoxious.

>>5060411

> there is no evidence the Iliad was written in verse

Cool... you brought up Homer, not me. The Iliad may not have been written in verse and Homer was ignorant of a term which did not exist yet. By that same token am I not allowed to call anybody on a physics board uneducated if they don't know of Einsteins theory of relativity because Newton didn't know about it? So it's okay to be ignorant of anything that was developed after the 8th century BC because Homer was too? That is literally your argument.

And yes, if you're on a mechanic board and have to ask what you put in a car to make it go you're a dumbass.

>>5060441
That's more comparable to not knowing how to read

>>5060444

Whatever, the fact is, this is your argument

Me - If you don't even know about the theory of relativity what are you doing on this physics forum?

You - Newton didn't know about the theory of relativity

What's the point of saying that? It literally means fuck all.

>>5060452
It surely does. I consider you pretty ignorant for not knowing shit about Homer, but I don't say, "Why do you even bother to discuss books if you don't know shit about the proginator of Western literature and plot?"

I'm familiar with rhyme and meter. In fact, that's what I like the most about poems. I always wanted to write poems, because fitting ideas into a rhyme and meter scheme seemed fun, like a puzzle.

Then I read poetry. And I hated almost all of it. The only ones I liked were those that told a story. Like Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

But the worst were those assholes writing 'free verse.' If you're not going to use rhyme or meter, you aren't writing poetry. You are writing prose with idiotic type setting.

>>5060464

> it surely does

What? It surely means fuck all?

> not knowing about Homer

Are you fucked? People aren't even sure he wrote the epics ascribed to him... I've read The Iliad and the Odyssey. What the shit are you talking about?

>>5060468
Maybe in the sense that Stravinsky didn't write music when his rhythm changed from bar to bar.

>>5060488

> greeks didn't compose hexameter epics on purpose, every line just had eight syllables totally by chance

Feminister 2014, groundbreaking literary chaos theory, or the 4chan postings of a total retard? You be the judge.

>>5060483
>people aren't even sure he wrote the epics ascribed to him
Homer does not exist as a person in record except as the writer of those epics. The Homeric Hymns were written later, not earlier, and they're far less significant. He's not like Hippocrates where 90% of the writings are by whoever. Homer is Iliad and Odyssey. We know these works were almost perfectly maintained from their first writing by discoveries of excerpts all about that match word-for-word; we also have a good idea of when they written in total, because shit like Odysseus blinding Polyphemus started appearing in art in Greek colonies all over within a couple of years, indicating the story was developed at once and spread very quickly.

>>5060488
I don't know enough about Stravinksy to argue with this.

>>5060509

> you're ignorant for not knowing anything about Homer

Well I've read both the epics... aren't people unsure about whether he even existed?

> The Homeric Hymns were written later

Most scholars don't think they were written by the same guy and besides what's the point of sayin...

> bunch of shit about the iliad andnthe odyssey

And? Good God your posting style is irritating. You just say a bunch of stupid, disconnected shit until the person stops replying. Your intial post was utterly wrong and stupid. Multiple people have explained this to you, just stop.

>>5060508
Every line didn't have eight syllables, it had six dactyls, a dactyl being three or two syllables.

>>5060517
>Well I've read both the epics... aren't people unsure about whether he even existed?
No. There was a singer who dictated the Iliad and the Odyssey. Now possibly his name wasn't Homer (or possibly it was, since it seems like his name would have been recorded and that name was given from the earliest of records), but when you say "Homer", it's taken to mean, "The guy who sung the Iliad and the Odyssey," who obviously existed or else there would be no Iliad or Odyssey.

>Most scholars don't think they were written by the same guy
They weren't. My point is that Homer was not a name attributed to a ton of writings, such as Hippocrates. Homer is nearly exclusively "the singer of the Iliad and the Odyssey."

>>5060520

Well whatever, they all followed that meter accidentally according to you.

>>5060525

> there was a singer who dictated the iliad and odyssey

And people don't know shit about him... that's my point. Do you not have any idea how an argument works at all?

>>5060528
No, they followed it intuitively. Just like a rapper can rap in meter without having a fucking clue about the idea of syllables per line; and if a certain style of rapping becomes prominent, and it gets taught to specialized apprentices over a hundred years without ever going into keep numerical count of the syllables, then you have what Homer is.

>>5060532
We actually know that he was probably the best aoidos of time, or at least perceived as such, since his Iliad became far more popular than the other Iliads (there were many Iliads--Songs of Ilum--Homer's was The Anger of Achilles). We know that he was from Boeotia, since that is where he starts his catalogue of ships. We know that he had a firm grasp of Greek and Asian geography, since his catalogue moves from border to border, demonstrating a knowledge of the spatial relation of the cities; he was almost surely well traveled, since he incorporated the gods of various cities into a pantheon for his story. We know that he thought he was receiving visions from the divine, as evidenced how the work of the aoidos is portrayed in the Odyssey. We know that writing was very new for him, since writing is not mentioned throughout any of his work except arguably in the case of the story of Bellerophon, and that could have easily been a pictograph. We know that he was as skeptical of war as he was an artist of it, since he said it would take a cold heart to call it glorious, and he makes glory itself amount to little (in the Underworld, Achilles says he would rather be a toiling servant alive than a dead hero, which is pretty damming on conjunction without Achilles words to Odysseus about the fruitlessness of honor in the Iliad).