/lit/ - Literature

yeah, there was a thread earlier today that got deleted that seemed pretty on topic i was like "uh, where the fuck did that thread go..." then i was like "oh"

>>5014236
Disclaimer: The views and actions on the mods do not represent the communities.

blame butterfly

>>5014236
>/lit/ is one homogenous group with the same view on justice
>posting off topic (by your logic) should always be allowed in the spirit of anti-censorship

>>5014246
Well guess what? Neither did the Nazis or any other small dicked clowns that lucked into power. Its actually reminds me more of how the Stalinists would photoshop dissidents and traitors out of pictures and try to revise history as if they never existed. A reply to OP was just deleted and Im sure the whole thread will be gone soon.

>>5014248
Butt isn't a mod, is she?

>>5014255
>off topic posting was never mentioned
>point was...
>no one has a right to decide what is off or on topic
>if a post is irrelevant it will die on its own

>>5014236
>hurr durr cant into archive.
Op could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch.

>>5014262
A 'she' mod? The 'delete' button is her penis substitute.

/pol/ is ragged on all the time here, but this board is far more censored than /pol/. Funny how that shakes out.

>>5014262
No.

>>5014236
You know, when someone gets a global ban ALL their posts, including threads, disappear. It doesn't really matter what board it's on, they all go bye bye. Just because a thread was deleted, that doesn't mean that it was the post you happened to be reading at that second which caused the Anon to get banned.

>>5014277
Thats good to know, but am I the only one that has seen a pattern in the threads that get erased?

>>5014272
also you always getting leftists making threads bitching and complaining about hierarchy and power and all this bullshit yet we have some unelected, unseen, unaccountable overlord deciding what can and cannot be read...seems pretty fucking authoritarian to me yet the so-called leftists will be the first to snitch on a thread that isn't going their way

>>5014284
its the nsa
they do it too on /pol/

>>5014288
/lit/ is a left-leaning board, as has been described before, and has more censorship than right leaning boards. I am a leftist myself, but Orwell was right, history was right, the left restricts freedom more, inherently. It is because when the power is taken from the haves and given to the have nots, they are unaccustomed to it and seek revenge. Mods on this board are obviously a bunch of fuck ups that relish and abuse the power they have here.

>>5014236

>>5014288
It's a privately owned board/site. Duh.

>>5014295

Which boards are right-leaning?

>>5014295
generally i hate leftists, but you're alright :3

>>5014297
say...that's right, shouldn't all the hardcore leftist be posting on usenet or some other antique relic of government run internet? why are they support this capitalist enterprise?

>>5014309
/hm/ and /pol/

>>5014309
/pol/ and /k/, I would say.
>>5014310
Thank you, honestly I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'm actually libertarian. I've always just thought of myself as left before because American politics have eschewed, ridiculed, and marginalized libertarianism.

>>5014236
/lit/ has a reputation for being an authoritarian Orwellian hell hole on other boards. i've seen it spoke of that way on several

>>5014316
>>5014319

/K/, sure. /Pol/, really? By 'right-leaning,' do you mean overrun with Paultards? Or have any of them actually read "God and Man at Yale?"

/HM/? LOL..

>>5014258
>Get thread deleted
>Compare entire board to Nazism and Stalinism

How've you been, Godwin?

Anyway, if you're talking about the "not getting a STEM degree is wasting your money" thread that started maybe two hours back, then that is just blatant baiting. Like, you can still try to read bias on the part of whoever deleted it into that, since there are plenty of shitty and/or troll threads on here (although if it was a global mod, then reading bias into it makes less sense), but let's not pretend that it was deleted because it made some mod uncomfortably question their humanities education or some shit. It was deleted because it was an instance of a repetitive and unfunny trolling attempt that snowballs into stupid arguments almost every time it comes up. No one's sitting around their house feeling oppressed because their passionate and thoughtful protest against the mainstream culture of /lit/ was repressed.

>>5014320
>board is obsessed with anarchist philosopher
>authoritarian

ITT: right/left bullshit

I used to think whatever team I chose actually mattered, but then I realized that it really doesn't matter when all I do is stay inside, beat off you chinese cartoons, and argue with people who will never admit defeat. If you say this doesn't apply to you, you're a bloody liar is what you are.

All it amounts to is political fantasy football. Our lives are ruled by power so far outside of our comprehension. Our government is controlled in theory by a horde of grandmaws and virile contractors and in practice by a cabal of unbelievably cunning jews. You do not have all the answers. You are not a revolutionary. Come off your high horse.

>>5014339
but that thread was going beyond "STEM makes more money, have fun working at starbucks artfags" but to a discussion of why stem is more fulfilling over a lifetime than a couple years of fucking hippy chicks at art school and then doing pointless work for the rest of your life

>>5014350
>more fulfilling than
>fucking hippy chicks at art school

But, man, that really does sound good. Just sayin'.

>>5014339
I'd disagree. I thought the thread, whether it was started as a troll or not, was pretty much all legitimate discussion. Who decides what is a troll thread and what is not? Where is the line between something that is mean to be thought provoking in an ironic sense and 'troll'?

> it was deleted because it made some mod uncomfortably question their humanities education
I hate to say it but if you admit what a role internet societies and relationships play in some peoples lives, this is not only possible, its likely. Especially when you consider the type of person invested enough in this board to consider becoming a moderator.

>>5014348

a hand with a gun is one hand more to be used as a fodder against those who stand against the people

>>5014350
I can't really speak to this specific thread, because I didn't look into it beyond seeing it in the catalog, but as I said, every time those threads come up, /lit/ just clamps down on the hook and refuses to let go, and the stupidity multiplies, and "STEM is fulfilling, but humanities is pointless work" doesn't sound particularly like a discussion that would break that pattern.

>>5014258
You say that as if the Nazi's were bad....

Stalin, yes.
Hitler? No, dude was a straight up G.

>>5014348

If you stay at the level of modern politics, it is indeed retarded to argue on the internet. But I think it is productive for someone to go outside of his beleifs and challenge them through dialogue. That's how basicaly political theory and philosophy advances. Being "apolitical", in the sense of not giving a shit about the social world outside is just as much as political position as being a party member.

>>5014357
> this is not only possible, its likely

No, it's not. I wish I had a set of charts that could display how often someone changed another person's mind about matters of varying personal conviction by arguing with them over 4chan, but I don't, so I hope we can just take it on faith that it's extremely rare that a thread on /lit/ persuades someone that their education was a waste.

>>5014369
> /lit/ just clamps down on the hook and refuses to let go

maybe that is a sign that it is a discussion that wants to be had among those who populate this board?

Once again, what does it matter, who's call is it, and why won't you let it die naturally if its irrelevant?

These are not outside trolls trying to abuse the setup of the board to undermine the regular posters or the even spirit that has been established here over the years. Yes it is a virtual community, but it is a community all the same, and if the denizens want to discuss the relevance of such a topic in their philosophy towards life and literature, that shall not be infringed.

BTW, you people get an idea of my views so far, what should I read? People have suggested Hobbs?

>>5014370
Germany would have been better off if Hitler had died (or at least stopped) after the annexation of Czechoslovakia. Hitler would probably be praised as the best German leader since Charlemagne.

>>5014393
no one's talking about changing minds, the issue was whether or not it could possibly offend someone.

>>5014365
'cept the people adore being stood against. They do not want your enriched, meaningful society of equality, communal gardens, and social interaction. They won't take your fearless leaders guidance because they know best how to run their lives and woe upon those who take issue with that. The people want porcelain kittens, all-anal gangbangs, Macrame Jesus, gooey facials, Maxim, Monster, Megachurches, MLP, McDicks, abortion on demand, anime, anal bleaching, coke, crochet, the bradford exchange, realdolls, reborn dolls, guns, etc Nobody wants your vision of paradise but you. Nobody wants to be fodder. They want their own world. They will not reorganize for you. You can give them nothing but promises when they already want what they have.
Have you ever seen an actual prole? They are not worth dying for, they are not worth the steam of your piss, and they think likewise of you. The authors and idealists that make your movement seem so bright were writing before Satellite TV and PornHub, their wildest most advance utopia pales in comparison to the majesty of the bread and circuses concocted for you and yours. They are products of a time when the revolutionary class truly had nothing to lose but their chains, now they have their wildest dreams and the realization of their imagination to lose. Each year the achievements of the system you loathe rise above your head. It is only a matter of time before they find the product which will see to your specific needs and make you content and complacent. The intellectual base of the revolution you are brewing is hosted on websites that generates capital based on how many viewers they get. You'd like to think they're spending it on fair trade coffee or whatnot, maybe they are. Money doesn't stay in one place. Eventually, do matter, how hard you try to stop it, it will creep in to the place where you don't want it. You have no guarantees, you have nothing to offer the people you adore, only words they can read on a screen that solidifies their bondage to everything you oppose.

>>5014397
Germany would have been fine if he wouldn't have invaded Poland. No one cared about Czech and Austria. They let him have it. But Churchill was letting his Polish allies do whatever the fuck they wanted to with the Germanic people and wouldn't aid in getting them back to Germany. Then Hitler got pissed and Churchill and that French fuck declared war.

>>5014381
>productive
but what does it produce? The conviction that one has the answers? The idea that one knows what is best for all?

Being apolitical is indeed as much a political position as being a party member, only it's far superior by it's own virtue. It leaves one free to cultivate oneself in a world wherein the system sees to their desires. It's simply the easier way. Contentment with one's lot is certainly admirable.

>>5014396
Since you don't seem to be a regular here, I'd like to ask - are you new just to /lit/, or to all of 4chan, or what? I'm not going to dismiss you as unimportant or anything because you aren't a regular, but we seem to have different understandings of how this community functions and what certain things indicate, and I think that it might be our differing backgrounds wrt this sort of community.

>maybe that is a sign that it is a discussion that wants to be had among those who populate this board?

For example, if I see "x sucks" posted many times over years, and every time the board responds by saying it doesn't and gets into stupid fights and never seems to learn, I don't see that as a sign that the community really wants a vigorous sharing of viewpoints. I interpret it as the community being really easy to bait and trolls exploiting this in their shitposting.

>Once again, what does it matter, who's call is it, and why won't you let it die naturally if its irrelevant?

As I see it, there are two questions here. What does it matter if a troll thread causes stupid arguments, and why can't we just let irrelevant threads (which isn't really the issue with threads like "STEM > humanities," since such is relatively on-topic here) die?

It matters if troll threads attract stupid arguments because then the board gets filled with troll threads full of stupid arguments. Like, I don't think I should have to defend the point that the purposeful creation of threads that are meant to make people mad and lead only to poor quality discussions is bad.

We can't just let irrelevant threads die, because (A) assuming everyone ignored them and never posted in them, they'd just float around the catalog for hours and take up space, and (B) in practice, not everyone does ignore them. That doesn't mean they aren't irrelevant. Like, if someone started a thread (not even a troll one, just a legitimate one) about cactus care on /asp/, it could be deleted, even if people had things to tell that person, because that's not a cactus care board. Yes, things are kind of odd on /lit/ because we range broadly in our discussion topics, but that doesn't mean that the mods have no right to delete irrelevant threads or that we should be ashamed when they do because they are refusing to allow natural selection through the will of the people to act on the thread.

>These are not outside trolls trying to abuse the setup of the board to undermine the regular posters or the even spirit that has been established here over the years. Yes it is a virtual community, but it is a community all the same, and if the denizens want to discuss the relevance of such a topic in their philosophy towards life and literature, that shall not be infringed.

>That shall not be infringed

>what is is-ought

Actually, it's quite possible, if not likely, that they are outside trolls, and it's overwhelmingly likely that they are trolls.

>>5014401
Actually, the issue was whether or not it would cause a mod to question their choice of education.

>>5014517
I am relatively new (30 days posting, 12 months lurking), like I said in my original post I really enjoy this board most of the time.

> I don't see that as a sign that the community really wants a vigorous sharing of viewpoints. I interpret it as the community being really easy to bait and trolls exploiting this in their shitposting.
Who the fuck are you to interpret what a community thinks, feels, or wants?
> troll threads attract stupid arguments because then the board gets filled with troll threads full of stupid arguments.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, its stupid cus I said so.

>(A) assuming everyone ignored them and never posted in them, they'd just float around the catalog for hours and take up space, and (B) in practice, not everyone does ignore them. That doesn't mean they aren't irrelevant.
A) like space in the slowest board on 4chan is all that valuable. Like the top 20 threads in the catalog arent the only ones that get bumped. Like actually meaningful discussion is being preempted, trumped, or quashed by any so called trolling og threads MORE THAN THAT OF THE THREADS BEING DELETED BY MODS.

Also, you're begging the question on point B.
>threads are irrelevant even though they are popular among the community because they are irrelevant.

Nice job, moderator.

In all honesty at least this thread has survived this long.

>>5014522
Questioning is not something that can be quantified in a binary sense. It is self reported, and therefore, not unreasonable to argue that just because a discussion isn't strong enough to provoke a true crises in someone can't cause them to mentally stray out of their comfort zone, or confront a repressed idea that may incite feelings of hostility, or frustrations, that are then translated into actions against a poster/thread.

how come i can't report this thread?

>>5014552
>Who the fuck are you to interpret what a community feels?
Is this actually a question? We interpret what people want constantly. You interpret what they want as a discussion about that thread. I interpret it differently. We are both interpreting.

>Stupid, stupid, stupid, its stupid cus I said so.

Actually, (unless I misunderstood you, which is, of course, possible) you were asking "what does it matter" if "/lit/ just clamps down on the hook and refuses to let go, and the stupidity multiplies," so, yes, stupid because I said so, and it's not even a fallacy, since it's the premise of the discussion.

> like space in the slowest board on 4chan is all that valuable
If it was actually ignored by everyone, then it would have no value, its deletion would be a net positive (although I suppose you could reasonably argue that the effort involved would be too much to justify it).

> trolling og threads
No, this point was in regard to irrelevant threads, not trolling ones, although the two aren't mutually exclusive.

>Also, you're begging the question on point B.
No, I'm not. I didn't try to prove the irrelevancy of anything there. I was discussing "irrelevant threads" in general, so there was no need to prove their irrelevance. The proper summary would be "threads can be popular even though they are irrelevant," although now I think we may be saying different things. When I say "relevant to /lit/," I mean to the board as a concept and to its "appropriate" subject matter, whereas I think when you say that, you may mean to the people of the board and to their interests.

I once responded to a mod in a sardonic fashion and was banned immediately for it. It was obvious it was the guy I responded to because it happened just seconds after I posted.

I really wonder what the mods of /lit/ are like. I love this board, but am very anti-censorship, anti-authoritarian, etc. I can only imagine what /lit/ would be like if we didn't have shit head leftists for moderators.

>>5014452
No one's responded to this but I like to give credit where credit is due. This was very good.

>>5014236
>yet another stem thread thrown into the trash
nothingofvaluewaslost.webm
we've talked about that shit already. it's off topic. enjoy your rage.

>>5014258
>Stalinists
>photoshop

>>5014744
>/lit/ is one person
>just because I come here every day means everyone else does too.
I come here every day but that's besides the point

>>5014275
Telling people you aren't a mod is a piece of evidence of who the mods actually are.

It should be against the rules to either confirm or deny you are a mod.

>>5015174

It's glaringly obvious that this guy is a mod:

>>5014517
>>5014678

>>5014452
"History is the oldest man there is. That's what Communism says. That's what Marx says, if you boil him down. He says: You can't escape history. You can't avoid him, or trick him, or bribe him. He rules. That's all. The capitalists think they've overthrown history, they think that history has come to an end and there is no history. They think there's only money But they're fooling themselves. History can't be escaped. History doesn't care for youth, or money, or fancy clothes. History is the tyrant that makes rulers like Stalin look weak and benign."

>>5014339
This. I don't spend most of my time on /lit/, but /mu/ and /r9k/ could use mods like this.

>>5015188
Yep, dude screams corporate

>>5015192
History has shown that there's only money. It's been that way starting 1250. The only way history will overcome money is when money stops being money and starts being the air we breath, and that is what it is right now. Remember when they said the same thing about god? God still there, it's just so much a part of our life we don't even think about it. The ideologies of the last century branched off from the same tree, and that's what will happen to capitalism. It will be split between the China model, Eurasian Oligarchy and American Capitalistic Liberal Democracy. You can't overthrow history, that's correct, but neither can history overthrow you, history can only absorb you, but by absorbing you, it becomes you. Marx was the prophet of capitalism and the mourner of communism's stillbirth.

>>5015188
>>5015690
I'm not a mod (not that I really expect you to believe me).

>>5014258
>Its actually reminds me more of how the Stalinists would photoshop dissidents and traitors out of pictures and try to revise history as if they never existed.

are you implying stalinists did anything wrong because that's absurd???

>>5016548
>>5015690
Also, if I were a mod, I would hopefully have looked beyond the OP of the STEM thread in question before deleting it. So, you could take that as evidence that I'm not a mod or that I'm a particularly awful one (or that I was lying to trick you, I guess).

Our mod is a fem-nazi that does what she pleases. Although she's tight, her heart is in the right place generally. Her period arrives around the fifteenth of the month and that is when she indiscriminately bans people and deletes thread. If you don't like it, make your own forum.

>>5014563
Sorry, I didn't see this post until now.

> Questioning is not something that can be quantified in a binary sense. It is self reported

I don't think this is relevant, especially since there's no self-reporting happening here.

> just because a discussion isn't strong enough to provoke a true crises in someone can't cause them to mentally stray out of their comfort zone, or confront a repressed idea that may incite feelings of hostility, or frustrations, that are then translated into actions against a poster/thread

Honestly, if repeated experience with threads on a topic being created specifically to induce rage isn't enough to justify the inference that their repeated creation isn't a sign of a desire for a vigorous sharing of viewpoints, how on earth is the deletion of a thread enough to justify the inference that it caused a mod to confront a repressed idea that incited frustrations that were translated into actions against the poster?

Also, just so we're clear, these theories about the deleter's personal attachment to the board would probably apply to a janitor, rather than a mod.