/lit/ - Literature

Depends how you define "contribution" - if it's just quantity: 1 in 10 Icelanders has published a book, and has more books read per head than any other country in the world

And the Sagas are God-tier (but they're not Icelandic alone)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24399599

>Ireland is such a literary nation! Joyce, Sayers, Mac Giolla Meidhre, the list goes on!

>>5010441
Probably the Vatican.

>>5010441
Is this what /lit/ has become?

>>5010448
Face, it is what it always has been.

>>5010444
Sassanach detected

>>5010458
By god, Irish is an awful language.

>>5010444
Beckett, Wilde, Yeats.

>>5010460
>being obtuse enough to judge a means of communication by some sort of objective criteria
You must be English

>>5010460
Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste, ná Béarla cliste, a chara.

>>5010464
Broken Irish is all you'll ever learn with the Irish education system.

Nigeria

They have like a gazillion people but only like 8 good books.

>>5010467
Okay that was actually pretty good.

>>5010445
Most of the significant catholic literature was written outside the confines of Rome or even the papal states.

>>5010441
America

The Jews

>>5010464
An bhfiual cead agam dul go dti an leathras? Is maith liom caca milis ach is aobhinn liom do madra.

>>5010444

Synge, Behan, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Heaney, uh, yeah. The list does indeed go on.

>>5010460
Yes. Repulsive, made-up "language" spoken only by cunts. Said cunts had a protest in Dublin a few months ago, no idea what it was about since all their signs were as Gaeilge. Says it all.

>>5010467

Well, yeah, that's why you go to a Gaeltacht and embrace the language.

>>5010531
And yet you did not even bother to ask them why they were protesting?

>>5010538
>embrace the language

I don't want to embrace the language, it smells like mouldy porridge and badly poured Guinness.

>>5010540

Why would I give a thundering fuck why they're protesting? I'm probably in favour of increasing whatever they're moaning about, if anything. I'm hard pressed to oppose having all Gaeilgoirs spayed and disenfranchised.

>>5010546
>mfw the way things are going Gaeilge will be the majority language by 2150

>>5010551

More people speak Polish in Dublin than speak Irish in all of Ireland. Sorry, Dinty, it's not going to happen.

>>5010556
He might be speaking for Alba. I'm amazed the amount of people justifying not learning a language they have twelve years guaranteed exposure to, but then I guess they learnt more from Americans who do likewise with their secondary languages.

>>5010560

It's a shitty, useless language and it's the guaranteed exposure that needs 'justifying', not the eminently rational decision not to bother learning it.

>>5010569
It's actually a rather useful language, even on word order it makes more sense than English linguistically speaking, so I'm going to assume you are just telling me you're aiming for a pay range less than that afforded someone fluent in a rarely spoken language.

I'd like to learn Welsh but it's hard to find appropriate learning resources.

obviously england

>>5010468
can you read? "greatest contribution to literature disproportionally to its size"

>>5010580
>It's actually a rather useful language

No. English is a useful language. French, German, Chinese, even Spanish and Portuguese, these are useful languages, because hundreds of millions of people around the world speak them. Irish is an almost completely useless language, because a) fucking nobody speaks it and b) apart from maybe 500 victims of cultural child abuse, anyone who speaks it also speaks English.

>a pay range less than that afforded someone fluent in a rarely spoken language.

You've been smoking too much porridge and mashed-up potato skins, m'boy.

>>5010590
Can you?

>>5010594
yes
if nigeria only has eight good books they have not made a great contribution to literature

>>5010591
i agree but you technology allows small languages to rebound, eventually we will be using fucking automatic translators, needing to learn the same language will be pointless.

i am also certain english will become a universal language of the future, i wish it could be reformed to improve the phonotypic capability.

>>5010599
Let me narrow down the issue for you

>disproportionally to its size
>disproportionally
>dis

>>5010602
>the greatest contribution
>the greatest
>greatest

>>5010608
You're right, the sentence simply isn't coherent

>>5010602
yes you fucking moron, so a small country with a great literary contribution is Disproportionate

>>5010615

Nah, I think you're just slightly retarded.

>>5010622
this

>>5010625
>>5010616
>>5010622
>all this aggression as overcompensation for not understanding basic logic and word interrelations

>>5010633
>this frantic attempt to disguise his inability to understand a simple sentence

>>5010633
>logic
how is that logic at all? it's entirely an issue with misunderstood semantics

>>5010441
Greece.

>>5010654
good choice


also, OP do you mean area or population?

>>5010591
It's useful because it performs functions that English doesn't. I'm pretty sure you don't understand English well enough to know what a gerund is or how it differs from a verbal noun in Irish, but the word order and distinct verbal forms give the language a dexterity that English doesn't have and can't emulate. A Macao constraint likewise has uses that a unconstrained text can't achieve, and because its uses are difficult to attain and niche does not invalidate their usefulness.

Your distinctions of useful languages has an almost laughable effect when you realise that Chinese, French, Spanish etc all have different levels of usefulness within them. Speaking Catalan will get you a different job than speaking Spanish, and places you in one of the more economically sound sociolinguistics spheres of the world; speaking Schezchuan won't help you pay the bills, Mandarin will; Austrian German sounding more hick than Swiss or Bavarian German means that Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't the German voice actor in Terminator; all these languages have different sociolinguistics but their usefulness in terms of a well paid job only rival Irish for Catalan or Mandarin, and that is because those languages cease to be useful in economic terms when it's assumed most people speak them. Of the two rivals, Mandarin is only by volume of business, and it's being paid less by the year.

And the socioeconomics of language can be artificially inflated- the form of Hebrew spoken in Israel is about 70 years old, and the sole difference between its course and Irish's is that it was made the language of power. Since we can participate in English or Irish, English became preferred; despite Israel being a recollection of an ancient diaspora of the more dominant globally tongues you listed, they made Hebrew the sole official language and it stuck, and flourished. You don't want to learn only English because Irish has no use: Irish wasn't voted in to the same position decades back and so now you're justifying that decision like you would be justifying not learning English had we made it the sole language of law. The lingua franca follows that cue, not some assumption that social Darwinism should be applied to linguistics because that would conveniently justify your stolidity.

English is great though if you want to be of the masses. If you want dexterity, try Irish again. Or you could learn Russian if you want to develop more blue cones in your eyeballs if you consider that more useful than changing your thought processing. Nontransables from languages more exotic than your native tongue are really in in the English speaking world, you should try to use the word Schadenfraude in a sentence today for the minor sociolinguistic points it carries. Maybe your job will pay you like you're the only person who knows what it means, but I doubt it. Either way, enjoy not reading for prose.

>>5010779
WEST BRITS GETTING BLOWN THE FUCK OUT

>>5010779

Wait... Is that... Tom???

>>5010779
>I'm pretty sure you don't understand English well enough to know what a gerund is

I'm pretty sure you enjoy fantasising about the ignorance of people with the temerity to disagree with you and I do hate to burst your bubble and all, but I do know what a gerund is. Though knowing or not knowing is irrelevant to my opinion of the Irish language.

>the word order and distinct verbal forms give the language a dexterity that English doesn't have

Tell the nice people at /lit/ how you say of someone in Irish that they committed suicide. Tell them, too about the hideous butcheries done in the name of trying to carve the corpse of Irish into a useable shape - conas a ta tu?

>Your distinctions of useful languages has an almost laughable effect when you realise that Chinese, French, Spanish etc all have different levels of usefulness within them.

"Your distinctions of useful screwdrivers has an almost laughable effect when you realise that types of screwdrivers have different levels of usefulness within them."

Hmmm - that doesn't work at all, actually. Makes no sense.

>You don't want to learn only English because Irish has no use: Irish wasn't voted in to the same position decades back

You have it backwards. Irish "wasn't voted in" and *because of that fact*, it's useless.

>now you're justifying that decision

I am doing no such thing, though it was in fact the correct decision. Your persistent resort to the straw man and personal attack are very telling - you have nothing at all underneath your bluster.

>like you would be justifying not learning English had we made it the sole language of law.

I'd be doing no such thing. I know this is /lit/ but this isn't a feedback thread, take your fictions elsewhere, please.

>English is great though if you want to be of the masses.

Holy shit you are so fucking mad right now, aren't you? Wow.

>Maybe your job will pay you like you're the only person who knows what it means, but I doubt it. Either way, enjoy not reading for prose.

Soooooo fucking mad. But anyway, enough with this talk about 'pay' etc. Show me a few job listings where Irish speakers command massive premiums.

>>5010843
>Tell the nice people at /lit/ how you say of someone in Irish that they committed suicide
Whut? I like how the clause which contains the meat of the sentence gets Engrish in return.

>I don't understand semiotics of use
I'm sure you don't, which is why you're building a nice tautology.

>because of the fact
Buddy you don't know what facts are, and the world is entirely made up of them.

>straw man
>personal attack
Oh kid. Fallacy fallacy: your addressing either if they exist does nothing to my conclusions. You're also a faggot.

>Irish is useless because the language of power is elsewhere
Man, while you're pulling up the Wikipedia page on how to show you learnt debating from the Internet and expected to win, you might want to check out the one on just world. Voltaire wrote this whole thing about it, I think it's in English now.

>one of the masses
>thinks this is an indicator of being mad
>hasn't read schopy on arguing
Middle class anxiety is normal for the English speaking world too; it's why they found it useful to have a phrase for it.

>job listings for well paid Irish jobs
The EU are still pretty sure people are lying about speaking it so often so we can have cushy translator posts for a language you want dead go unfilled. Start there, but you'd need Latin or other upper class markers of education to get into tenure money.

>>5010779
fucking rekt

>>5010899
>Voltaire wrote this whole thing about it, I think it's in English now

Double rekt. Go hiontach, mo chara.

>>5010899
>Whut?

No, that's not it. Tell everyone how you say of someone that they committed suicide. C'mon, it's a chance to indulge in the beautiful and dextrous and superabundantly useful language that is Irish, what's stopping you?

>Oh kid. Fallacy fallacy

That's not an example of the fallacy fallacy - I did not speak to your thesis in my reference to your strawmanning and personal attacks aren't 'fallacies' in any case.

>The EU are still pretty sure

These highly-paid jobs. They... don't exist, no? They are, so to speak, fictitious, correct? In the realm of the unreal, mythical, lacking ontological status, possible-though-uninstantiated, n'est pas?

And all the rest is just more of your butthurt mewling. Something something 'kid', something something something Wikipedia etc. Because, as I said, you have absolutely no shot in the locker.

>>5010907
>>5010908

Cad ata 'samefag' as Gaeilge? Give it a rest, loser.

>>5010931
He really isn't. I'm a different guy, and you're making a fool of yourself. Give it up.

>>5010931
>say of some that they committed suicide
>inistear gur bhfuair se bhas ona lamh fein.
I'm not sure why you want this phrase, but it sounds like homework so I left out the accents :)

>fallacies aren't fallacies
If I give you a shovel for the pit you're digging you're bound to hit Heideggerian German at some point.

>ontological
OMG IT'S HAPPENING


The jobs made all the papers; there was a large petition to ask the EU to not rule the jobs defunct due to the living nature of the language which everyone signed despite not speaking anything more than ceapairi ciunas cailin bothair bainne; you are lacking many facts in your world.

Protip: ontic is even further above your natural register than ontological if you want to use terms you have no understanding of.

>>5010560
It's not the fault of the people, it's the teaching of it that's the problem. A vast amount of the population are exposed to Irish since their first days in school and yet they're lucky to speak even the basics when they leave. It's ditched immediately afterwards.

Irish, for its own good, should cease being compulsory. In that way, only the people who truly want to speak Irish will be speaking Irish.

>>5010987
>I'm not sure why you want this phrase

Now translate it literally. Show the world the beauty and grace of the language.

>fallacies aren't fallacies

Personal attacks aren't fallacies, no. If you think otherwise, this indicates only that you don't know what the word 'fallacy' means, which would tend to negate your bluster about 'ontological', so I'll keep rolling on, thanks.

>The jobs made all the papers

How many such jobs exist and how much do they pay? If the number of these jobs is below, say, a hundred, then just stop bringing it up, honestly - it's not exactly a reason to speak Irish if the big-bucks jobs you can't seem to shut up about are unattainable to 99% of Irish speakers.

>>5010940
>you're making a fool of yourself

Nah, he's making a fool of himself and if indeed you are a different person, so are you. But it's only to be expected, I suppose. Too much porridge rots the brain, I reckon.

>>5010779
>you could learn Russian if you want to develop more blue cones in your eyeballs

>>5010441
Probably Luxembourg.

>>5011153
Isteh joke in the fac tthat its not written in finnish but english_

>>5010580
>VSO
>Makes sense

>>5010441

Ellistan

>>5010444
The list doesn't need to go on past joyce to prove that it's a great literary nation.

>>5011285
jk, obviously it's Ragland.

>>5010441

Literature proper? England.
Including metaliterary developments? Greece.

>>5011127
>Now translate it literally. Show the world the beauty and grace of the language.
Wait, you want a Bearlachas translation to prove whether natural Irish has grace or not? That's like using Spanglish to demonstrate the worth of Cervantes. You're not even wrong any more, but please do give me the butchering of a phrase you have in mind.

Straw men and ad hominems (aka personal attacks not bearing on the issue) are informal fallacies. Ignore the informal part before you start talking about suits and how you knew how retarded you were when claiming they weren't fallacies within your shifting goalposts for the definition of fallacies.

>mention since outset it's a niche environment which is why you get higher pay
>he only now has a problem with it
>claims these jobs are unattainable to Irish speakers
>they're going under filled because of lack of Irish speakers
>these aren't even all the jobs on the market
>conveniently ignores the ones that set you up for life too

To be honest man, I feel kind of bad stringing this out like this. It's painfully obvious for those who have more experience at this depth you're out of your range but you keep claiming you're waving not drowning.

I don't know why you feel the need to defend your arguments when this is one of the audiences most likely to pick up a book on why you're not even wrong any more because you've strayed so far.

>>5011374
>Wait, you want a Bearlachas translation to prove whether natural Irish has grace or not?

I want you to show the world the kind of gibberish Gaeilgoirs have to speak because their made-up Frankenstein's monster of a zombie "language" permits neither economy nor clarity. You know this and you don't want to be embarrassed in front of the Americans (because you know they'd LOVE it, how quaint and charming!) and hence the stall-tactics. You want to praise Clodhopperese, but you know you'll turn yourself into a leprechaun in the eyes of foreigners if they actually get wind of what it's like.

>Straw men and ad hominems (aka personal attacks

No. But at least I know your exact level of retardation now: you are that breed of retard who believe that 'ad hominem' is synonymous with 'personal attack'. The distinguishing feature of a fallacy - formal or informal - is suasion: fallacies are arguments. A personal attack (ie, 'Like all gaeilgoirs, you are a preening, pig-ignorant self-regarding cunt') is not an argument and hence is not a fallacy. Here endeth the lesson.

And about these jobs, tell me how many there are and the exact pay rates or stop flogging the dead horse, pal. You came in talking about high-paying jobs and your lack of specificity is becoming very amusing.

>obvious for those who have more experience at this depth

Yyyyyeah. I said very early on that Irish is exclusively spoken by cunts and you've done more than I would've thought humanly possible to verify that claim. You've rolled out every cheap trick in your grubby little book (which no-one will trouble to read because it's written in Irish) and the more frantically you try to paint yourself as the victor here, the more amused I become.

>>5011442
>>5011442
Baby, you can't speak Irish. I know this from you trying to butcher it already in the thread. You think you've got a better, more Irish phrasing because you have none of the skills to judge it. That is not the system's fault; your investment in not learning how or why you're wrong is thoroughly translatable across English and any oer language. I gave you the phrase as best I could render it from your poor English. I can't however read your mind to extract the poor Irish you want to hold up as a standard.

You were commenting on my personal attack which was an ad hominem. Don't worry I'm sure none of the other people who told you to check yourself before you reck yourself can follow a quote chain, and absolutely no one in the thread you're bumping is an American grill laughing at you.

You want to claim there's no high paying jobs when this is one of the many common knowledge scandals of public expenditure in the EU, not just Irish news in the last ten years. To miss so many articles about the death and resurrection of Irish in relation to them would require grim determination to stay under that rock.

Your scramble to dissociate from calling straw man is revealed by the quote chain too. I'll let you read back while I go learn new and inaccessible to you things.

Btw, I speak Munster Irish, not the made up version you failed to learn to a second grade standard over twelve years of school. I have no argument against your understanding and skills in Irish being terrible, you can't even handle SVO languages like English.

>>5011497
>oer language
*other language

Other guy is mad that irish doesnt conform to his aesthetic sense and cant get over it?

>>5011497
>I gave you the phrase as best I could render it from your poor English.

Pathetic.

>ok so you've just proven me wrong but i sense that no-one else is reading this so i'll pretend otherwise

Pathetic.

>You want to claim there's no high paying jobs

I don't want to claim anything, boss. You came in bellowing about the apparently endless parade of generously-remunerated positions the lucky gaeilgoir could avail of. But ever since talk came around to the precise number of positions that exist, you've gone all shy and bashful on the subject.

>Your scramble to dissociate from calling straw man

I haven't "dissociated from" that, I said it and I stand by it. It and a few other bargain-basement dirty pool tactics are all you've brought to the discussion. I know it's quite a shock to the system to hear this, when all you ever hear from other gaeilgoirs is what a marvelously virtuous person you are by simple dint of speaking Irish, but you're a stupid cunt who learned a stupid and useless language, that's all. That's the long and short of it.

And I mean, you secretly know it, too, that's the pitiable part of it. Only an effort to mask self-loathing can explain the desperation on display here, the laughable slurs aimed at my English and the high-speed dodgeball around translating a simple phrase. An gaeilgoir bocht, a choin, a choin.

>I speak Munster Irish

You think I give a tuppenny fuck what dialect of Boggerish you cough up phlegm 'speaking'? Mulchie please.

wtf That's where I'm from!

>>5011570

Other guy is mad that a small cohort of noisy fanatics have forced the entire country into bilingual signage, bilingual official documentation and in some cases compulsory placename changes (against the wishes of the people who actually live there). Other guy is mad that this group of fuckwits have effectively occupied the Google Maps Dublin section and changed all of the street names to their Irish versions, rendering it more or less useless for 99% of the people who ever consult it (ie, mostly foreigners). Other guy is mad about the insufferably self-congratulatory air these mealy-mouthed cunts exude from their every pore.

Aesthetics, as ever, is only the tip of the iceberg.

>>5011298
Joyce hated Ireland and felt the need to escape in order to be able to do his work

>>5010442
that is a very strong literary culture, though

Taim liofa sa gaelige, mo chairde. Cuir ceist chughaim.
(I'm not really, my understanding is fluent.)

I once watched a documentary on Irish gypsies beating the shit out of each other on backroads for large sums of money. This thread is like the /lit/ equivalent of that. Keep it coming, lads.

>>5011587
He did translate the phrase. Your English is poor in comparison to his. I don't understand your objection to translation.

>>5010931
Good god, you are a pretentious son-of-a-bitch, aren't you?

>>5011642
>He did translate the phrase.

He didn't render it into English literally, and did not (and will not) do so for exactly the reasons I mentioned - he's embarrassed to.

>Your English is poor in comparison to his.

No, it's not.

>I don't understand

Evidently. It costs a shitload of money for no reason at all.

>>5010779
>Your distinctions of useful languages has an almost laughable effect when you realise that Chinese, French, Spanish etc all have different levels of usefulness within them. Speaking Catalan will get you a different job than speaking Spanish, and places you in one of the more economically sound sociolinguistics spheres of the world; speaking Schezchuan won't help you pay the bills, Mandarin will; Austrian German sounding more hick than Swiss or Bavarian German means that Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't the German voice actor in Terminator; all these languages have different sociolinguistics but their usefulness in terms of a well paid job only rival Irish for Catalan or Mandarin, and that is because those languages cease to be useful in economic terms when it's assumed most people speak them. Of the two rivals, Mandarin is only by volume of business, and it's being paid less by the year.
That's a whole lot of words that do absolutely nothing to answer the point of why Irish is useful.

>>5011636
Knuckle. Good show, anon. I know the real old guy in that show, the crazy old dude who soaked his hands in petrol to harden them.

>>5011651

I just have a sense of humour, actually.

I give approximately -2 fucks about the Irish language or anyone else's fucks about it.

>>5011655
>That's a whole lot of words that do absolutely nothing to answer the point of why Irish is useful.

Keep reading. That's his whole schtick.

>>5011658
You know big Joe Joyce? That's mad, how come?

>>5011663
"Cuir se e fein gur bas" . . . suicide, btw.

iceland is kind of the only answer to this question

>>5011654
You didn't ask him to render it into English. You've made more syntax and basic errors than he has in this thread.

I meant I don't understand your objection to translations which aren't literal. Literal translations are usually bad ones. What is wrong in his translation?

>>5011672
I used work up around where he was. More I've seen him in the flesh and all his considerable wealth than know him, though.

>>5011663
Thanks for sharing, liked and subscribed

>>5011670
Yeah I know, I don't know a whole lot about the Irish language but I dunno why that guy's getting all the support in this thread when your arguments are clearly better. Trust /lit/ to confuse pseudo-intellectual waffle with actual good debating.

>>5011691
> You didn't ask him to render it into English
He did, actually.

>1 in 10 Icelanders has published a book

I can just imagine how mediocre the books in their shops are. If 10% of Americans had a book published, we'd drown in a veritable ocean of unremarkable texts (we practically do this, now).

Pic related.

>>5011706
Icelanders =/= americans

>>5011570

Yeah, pretty much. He's trying to base his hatred for the language on Irish to English translations when the latter language was developed hundreds of years after irish was. Why is anyone bothering to even entertain this?

Fuair sé bás lololol one sentence means you should completely disregard an entire language

Get outta here

>>5011679
My foclóir says
>Chuir sé lámh ina bháis fein
I figured the other guy wanted féinmharú as a verb or something.

>>5011691
>You didn't ask him to render it into English.
>>5011127
>Now translate it literally. Show the world the beauty and grace of the language.

>You've made more syntax and basic errors than he has in this thread.

Enumerate them.

>I meant I don't understand your objection to translations which aren't literal.

I don't have any such objection - clearly you really don't understand. I wanted him to translate the relevant phrase literally to show what a clumsy mess Irish really is:

>inistear gur bhfuair se bhas ona lamh fein.

I'm no Clodhopologist, mind you, but as I recall, the literal translation is something along the lines of 'He put his own hand into his death'. And understand - this is not some flowery, poetic way of putting things. This is what a fucking coroner would put on an autopsy report as Gaeilge. That's why Captain Munster wouldn't play ball, you see? Because it's a fucking embarrassment of a "language".

>>5011716
My mother informed me of my granduncle's death recently by "Ta se cailte" meaning "He is lost". Dude had fucking dementia, I'd spent the day laughing about him having escaped from the oldfolks home.

>>5011718
>Chuir sé lámh ina bháis fein

>>5011720
>the literal translation is something along the lines of 'He put his own hand into his death'.

That's the phrasing I was thinking of, yeah. And like you said, you got it from the dictionary. Ladies and gentlemen: The Irish "language".

>>5011718
I said "he put himself to death"; you said "he had a hand in his own death." 'Tis all the fucking same.

>>5011714
Are you trying to assert that the average Icelander is more astute, and has far more interesting things to write than the average American?

Seems like a very bold statement.

>>5010551
>2014
>speaking a Goidellic language, not your native scottish Brittonic tongue
what sort of scot are you

>>5011706
You sound insecure.

>>5011746
How? I'd be willing to concede, if you explained your point.

These glib, hit-and-run "you're just jealous/insecure/an idiot" posts mean virtually nothing without some backing.

>>5011720
I find that very poetic.

You are imbecile, senile, cripple old woman

>>5011720
>Enumerate them.
Kek, no. Proofread your own work.
>clumsy mess
How? If a text is clumsy in direct translation it does not mean the language is clumsy. People mistake many authors as clumsy when translated from German to English in this fashion.

>>5011714
this. Icelanders read a crazy amount. literally every home has a fairly sizable library (like, as in a whole room for their books). They all speak fluent english (very fluent) in addition to Icelandic and probably a couple other languages. There are only 300,000 people in the country and they've managed to produce one of the 20th century's greatest novelists (halldor laxness) and the sagas are fucking miraculous. They're an extremely scholarly people, mostly because it's too fucking cold and dark to do anything else most of the year. Iceland is an amazing place that is extremely inspiring to any artist and Icelanders all travel a lot so they have interesting life experiences compared to most people. they also have good public education. it's extremely rare to find an Icelander who didn't get at least a bachelor's

>>5011727
I laughed out

>>5011727

That's pretty dark man, sorry about that misinterpretation.

For the sake of this thread though I think it's important to point out the obvious which is that every language gets things posts in translation sometimes.

>>5011720
Literal translation is dogshit and I dont get why you are so hung up on it as a proof of something for your arguments.

>>5011755
>I find that very poetic.

>>5011442
>you know they'd LOVE it, how quaint and charming!

You hear that, Munster? They LOVE it!

>>5011758
>Sagas are miraculous
they are written like shit

>>5011740
see
>>5011758
there's an old Icelandic saying (forgot who it's attributed to) that says: "Better to be shoeless than bookless." and if you don't have shoes in Iceland you fucking die. This pretty much sums up the country's attitude toward literature

>>5010591
>>5010591
>utility<cultural patrimony
Ireland lets its language die, they deserve what cunts like this mete out to them

>>5011733
>That's the phrasing I was thinking of, yeah. And like you said, you got it from the dictionary. Ladies and gentlemen: The Irish "language".
>implying Columbians can't order an Irish dictionary
It just takes a while to get here, anon. Beir bua.

>>5011779
do you read Icelandic? they have a very unique style of poetry which doesn't translate. look up kennings and skaldic poetry

>>5011768
Eh, it was a laugh, so.
And, yeah, that anon bitching about imprecision is just a bitch. I mean, who the fuck cares?

>>5011756
>Kek, no.

Yeah.

>How?

See above.

>>5011769
>Literal translation is dogshit and I dont get why you are so hung up on it as a proof of something for your arguments.

I'm not talking about *translation*, retard. I'm using translation to illustrate my point. Come back when you rise above the level of responding to key words.

>>5011781
>cultural patrimony

My cultural patrimony is cups of tea, Father Ted and losing at football. I give no fucks about what people did here five hundred years ago or what language they spoke as they did it.

>>5011800
>My cultural patrimony is cups of tea, Father Ted and losing at football. I give no fucks about what people did here five hundred years ago or what language they spoke as they did it.
I got that alcholism.

How easy is it to immigrate to Iceland? Anyone know?

Sounds like a paradise, despite the weather.

>>5011805

Well, obviously the alcoholism, the alcoholism goes without saying. The incest, too.

>>5011814
Yeah, the incest too. That's them extended farmer families. Sure, you're not having sex at all if you've not accidentally fucked a cousin or two.

>>5011811
I don't really know, I married an Icelander so it's nbd for me. It's really not a pleasant place to live. don't get me wrong, it's probably my favorite place in the world, but I can;t stand being there for more than a month at a time. In winter it's just fucking awful. 3 hours of daylight, cold as shit, absolutely nothing going on, you can't go anywhere. In summer it's amazing, except the people are shitty and the weather is still kinda harsh most of the time. I'd recommend visiting before you get any big ideas

>>5011758
I picked up Njal's saga for 50 cents at a thrift store the other day. Anything I should keep in mind before i read it? Any other sagas you recommend?

>>5011720
>I'm no Clodhopologist, mind you, but as I recall, the literal translation is something along the lines of 'He put his own hand into his death'. And understand - this is not some flowery, poetic way of putting things. This is what a fucking coroner would put on an autopsy report as Gaeilge. That's why Captain Munster wouldn't play ball, you see? Because it's a fucking embarrassment of a "language".
They put feinmharu on a death certificate. It's the noun for suicide. You seem mad and ignorant in equal propositions.

>>5012061
>They put feinmharu on a death certificate.

A news report, then. The point is that it's what you find when you look it up in a dictionary.

>>5012084
In the news they refer to it as reflexive killing. The noun for suicide is the first part of the entry, then the phrase. It's idiomatic and English has similar phrases (committed suicide vs killed himself, etc). Irish language news says feinmharu because they deliver it as a ruling from the cornoner or as a suspicion of the noun form.

>>5012132
>they reword the sentence to avoid using the natural one because it's stupid

Bully for them. Point stands.

>>5011956
I guess the only thing I'd recommend to help you enjoy is to not worry about all the names and characters as they come up. They're really hard to keep track of and it doesn't really matter, Icelanders just had a preoccupation with keeping track of what family everyone was from because they're all related to the original settlers. You'll begin to recognize the characters who actually matter as their names crop up more and more. Some of the shit might seem really weird until you study up on early icelandic/viking society a little more, but njal's should spark your interest, not discourage you from learning more.

Egil's saga is the motherfucking joint, my favorite. Grettir's saga is ill as fuck, but I'd recommend reading it after a few of the other more important sagas, as it's one of the latest written and makes references to a bunch of other sagas. If you haven't read the eddas, I'd recommend checking them out. you don;t need to have read them before reading the sagas, but they were the first Icelandic literature I got into

>>5012202
No, it's because otherwise people sue you for libel. In English you'll notice "alleged" is used with similar cases until a verdict. It's easier to phrase the legalese around a legal term.

sri lanka

>preserve buddha's original discourses
>fucking thousands of them

hundreds of unknown, unnamed monks must have been involved in it.

>>5012228
>No, it's because otherwise people sue you for libel

Dead people sue you for libel? Nah. News reports don't use 'alleged suicide' (or at least not habitually); you can't libel the dead. You just making shit up, pal?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/investigation-of-psychiatric-unit-following-patient-suicide-1.1806556

>The complaint which was sent to the HSA on May 16 outlines the recent tragic suicide of a patient who absconded from the unit and the ‘near-miss’ of another patient who also absconded.

>>5011706
Tao Lin looks like he wants to rape me.

>>5012376
Not him but you can be sued by the family of the deceased for libel and emotional damages.

>>5012376
Alleged and suspected are used until the coroner signs off. That article is after a death certificate has been issued, contains no identifying information, and the translation of suicide as used in the article would be feinmharu, like I said... I don't know what you're doing here or what you think this proves.

Jesu Christ, this is why I hate my country. This is a worthless argument between those who were good at Irish in school and those who were shit. It's always the kids who got good results in other subjects but couldn't hack Irish who hate the subject.

>>5012423
>Not him but you can be sued by the family of the deceased for libel and emotional damages.

No, you can't.

http://alistairmcconnell.wordpress.com/essays/speaking-ill-an-analysis-of-posthumous-defamation/

>Importantly, in Hilliard, it was stated by Gannon J that in order for a publication which defames a dead person to amount to a criminal libel, it must be proven to have been published with the malevolent purpose of vilifying his memory with the intention of injuring surviving members of his family, and that “the constitutional right to the vindication of one’s good name is a guarantee of personal rights which of course must be personal to a living person.

Good luck digging that out of 'X committed suicide'.

>>5012471
>I don't know what you're doing here or what you think this proves.

"I don't understand what's going on, but I can assure that I absolutely will not shut my gob no matter what."

And I'm sure you won't. Stop making shit up about what newspapers say, that's all.

>>5012775
>who got good results in other subjects but couldn't hack Irish

Sure, sure. We're just jealous. And your Mum says you're cool!

>>5011758
Iceland is amazing, if only it wasn't so cold and dark for most of the year I'd claw my way in in a heartbeat.

>>5010441

any white european country.

/thread

>>5012883
I'm gonna honeymoon there.

>>5012883
Please stop advertising Iceland. people might want to move there and ruin everything.

>>5012934
Congrats! I hope you'll go in the summer though, in wintertime the sun hasn't risen until about 11.30 am. It's sunny around the clock in the summertime though. Dat nordic feel.

>>5012945
I was under the impression that Iceland only accepts people they actually need nowadays.

>>5012972
Also I gotta add: Winter in Iceland sucks (unless the weather is nice), but New Year's in Reykjavik is AMAZING. Never seen so many fireworks in my life and everyone is drunk and in a party mood. Reykjavik is also really cozy in the winter.

funny how you all are not taking into account TONS of books made in other countries that have been stolen, burned or whatever

>>5010441
Greece.

Finland.

> Yli-Juonikas
> Kilpi
> Waltari
> Kailas

>>5011285
> Picture of the word territory
subtle

>>5010580
Jaysus.

>>5011696

You spend about 14 years trying to learn a language that's taught badly and then end up having some self-righteous teacher with the gall to blame you for it T_T I imagine you'd feel some rancour at the subject as well.

Damn goose stepping arseholes should have tried to read books instead of burning them!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

>>5012775

Amen

>>5013443
>irish requires a special skillset

Yeah, no.

>>5011740


i would have full confidence in making that statement.

on a related note, why is it that people get their panties in a twist whenever the question of value comes up. they are so afraid of saying that they think such and such is better or worse than someother.

>>5013592
>why is it that people get their panties in a twist whenever the question of value comes up. they are so afraid of saying that they think such and such is better or worse than someother.

Because many errors are committed in doing this.

Wow this guy really camped on a thread for the length of a working day to hate on Irish.

>>5015881

I was watching the football. Am now, too.

So I guess this is a good place to ask, how's Hungarian literature rated in the world?

>>5015927
Pretty inaccessible to most considering the vast majority of those wo understand it lie in Hungary. I suppose that's part of the reason it's translated less. Any good recs?

>>5015938
Who* and live*

>>5015938
>Any good recs?
Preferred era?

>>5015946
When they're defending Europe from the near East? Or anything about Bathory in specific. I watched a movie where they inserted Caravaggio or some other famous artist into her court, which would be even more interesting if it were true but I doubt it is.

>>5015958
If you like epics, The Siege of Sziget could be interesting. For some reason Eclipse of the Crescent Moon is also considered the best historical novel but I found it rather boring.

I can't think of any books about the Bathorys that are not studies or something like that.

>>5016007
I do like epics, I'll take your rec over the Eclipse one. What kind of studies? I was hoping for something closer to family military campaigns and relationship with the Church more than the SHE'S A VAMPIRE ya fiction stuff.

>>5016030
There's this one called the Infamous Lady which I've heard was true to history and it's about Erzsébet specifically. Other than her, there were so many Báthorys, a book about the family as a whole would be more /sci/ than /lit/ material.

>>5016062
/lit/s the de facto /hist/ board. I'm more interested in the crusades and so forth, so I guess a book directly about her will only touch on her husband's absence due to campaign. I'll keep it on the wish list. Thanks for the Siege of Sziget, it's exactly the kind of thing I love.

>>5013615


translation, people who suck at it project and think everyone else sucks too because that validates their fragile egos.

>>5012833
>"I don't understand what's going on, but I can assure that I absolutely will not shut my gob no matter what."
I'm sure you won't. But then it's my job to take people off the air when they say something which leaves the station liable, so I won't be taking your googled legal advice into account in our procedures.
tl;dr: Stop making shit up about mainstream media practices because some Irish teacher touched you as a child, kthnxbai

>>5016007
What's your opinion on Krasznahorkai?

>>5016373

You made some bullshit up about what newspapers do and I irrefutably disproved your made-up bullshit by dint of a simple google search. You can say whatever you like, everyone knows now that you're just making up bullshit. Have fun doing that, I suppose.

>>5011811
I'm Icelandic, it is tough due to the finance crysis going up and down constantly.

>>5016389
Not who you were asking, but fuck, I wish I wish I could understand Hungarian just to read Krasznahorkai. I mean, it's fucking amazing in translation, I wonder what the original is like. I also don't get why he isn't bigger. My friend tells me it's because he's not accessible at all, but that's not it at all imo.

>>5016437
M8 I'm not giving you or discussing with you my station's guidelines on a literature board. I just don't get why you are so mad, or why you want that article to translate between Irish and English as "had a hand in his own death" so badly, besides that you clearly hate hippies who speak Irish. Everyone hates them, why are you trying to prove me wrong about media guidelines like thay'll do something about it?

We'll still be calling them "the alleged vandals" until they're convicted, under the same principle I outlined.

Suing is a very small part of it, and libel the smaller part of that... your idea that Irish is changing the way news is written because they use a noun which is different to the phrase you want them to use is in reality something Irish and English news reportage does because they fear they would be held culpable in a variety of ways. The family can sue you, both for libel and emotional suffering, but many other bad things, legal, professional, and moral can be levied against you for such reporting too. This is first year media studies stuff. It's got nothing to do with your feelings about Irish, it's how we conduct business for fear of repercussions. It still has nothing to do with your rage against Irish speaking hippies. I really do not get why you need to think you are irrefutably right about this. Except that it came up in the same thread as your Irish speaker rage. /saged because I didn't come here for my day job

>>5016572
>The family can sue you, both for libel and emotional suffering

I have already proved that this is not the case with respect to reports of suicide and I can see that you are just in full damage-control mode for whatever ego-driven reason prevents people who've lost the argument from acknowledging same.

You don't understand what I was talking about when our disagreement began, you appear never to have understood what I was talking about and clearly have no desire to do something as gauche as actually read the thread to find out, while of course also being very much disinclined to stop gassing off on whatever your best guess of the subject is. So this will be my last response to you, as you're plainly determined to ensure that nothing productive will come of even acknowledging your existence.

>>5016685
>pls repong

>>5010580
>even on word order it makes more sense than English linguistically speaking

that is bullshit it so many levels it pisses me off.
>there are 4 grammatical cases
>there is no way to predict the plural form of a word
>fucking irregularities everywhere
>two genders. and it's fucking difficult tell what gender a noun is once you get to the
>4th fucking declension.
>verbs can only have two syllables at most for some goddamn reason
>DNTLS in case it's not hard enough

not to mention the adverbs and prepositions. fucking glad it's dying out i tell ya hwat

>>5010546
Why do you hate heritage and culture so much?

Without a doubt the democratic state of Athens.

>The decades that followed became known as the Golden Age of Athenian democracy, during which time Athens became the leading city of Ancient Greece, with its cultural achievements laying the foundations of Western civilization. The playwrights Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides flourished in Athens during this time, as did the historians Herodotus and Thucydides, the physician Hippocrates, and the philosopher Socrates.

>>5016979

I'm fine with my actual, real heritage and my actual, real, living culture. I have no time for the zombified, fictitious, aspirational pseudo-culture the Gaeilgoirs would have me embrace and I resent the scandalous waste of State resources on propping up a corpse of a "language" that would die out in three generations without it.

>>5016988

Dont forget the whole athenian empire/delian league fucking with everybody. Its like the US, set in ancient greece.

As for countries:
England
Japan
Greece/Athens (city state)

>>5010448
>>Is this what /lit/ has become?

Would you prefer another Bukowski thread?

>>5017471

Or orwell, dostoyevsky ('what shold i read'?), joyce, etc etc