/lit/ - Literature

Because I'm white, american and not a raging /x/-tier cock-chugger

publicly

Pantheist/deist/animist masterrace

>We are all the universe experiencing itself
>I was once a flower, and I'll be a flower again


But there is no reason against being hedonist leaning if one has empathy.

>>5005289

Why haven't you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

because the map is not the territory

>>5005300

because it's 2014 and I like to fap to traps

because I don't believe in it, and it also doesn't conform to my ideals.

>>5005300
Because I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE is a shit-tier diety and the jesus story is totally stupid. Why would I believe one dude ever was born and died differently from countless billions of people, via virgin rape a torture respectively, and I have to believe this 2000 years later and ignore the parts of the same book about trading slaves and annihilating the planet because hell (which is itself a retarded idea)?

>>5005289
I am a Buddhist and have been for 20 years.

Why aren't YOU a Buddhist. If you are one, what kind.

>>5005318
You don't believe in impermanence? What is it you think lasts forever?

>inb4 your ignorance

>>5005325
>What is it you think lasts forever
Being

I'm not one, but I wish to know more about it.

>>5005300
The teachings of Christ himself were actually quite Buddhist.

Some argue that he was himself Buddhist.

Don't believe me?:
>https://google.com/search?q=Jesus+and+Buddhism

>>5005356
Being not very bright

>>5005402
>Most modern scholarship has roundly rejected any historical basis for the travels of Jesus to India or Tibet or influences between the teachings of Christianity and Buddhism, and has seen the attempts at parallel symbolism as cases of parallelomania which exaggerate the importance of trifling resemblances.[9][10][11][12]

>>5005325
I never said I didn't believe in impermanence

>>5005323
I've been interested in Buddhism all my life, and recently began practicing Mindfulness Meditation.

I just don't believe in the supernatural / spiritual aspects of it.
>e.g. if I'm good while I'm alive, I'll come back as a house-cat when I die.

If not for that, I would be Buddhist.

Because Tao is uncomplicated.

>>5005289
Because I went from theravada to zen and it ran its natural course.

>>5005409
>Wikipedia
Bullshit.

Anyone can put anything on there.

>>5005289
Because it somehow manages to be even more life denying than christianity and all of its supposed good points are western misunderstandings or outright fabrications created by hippie generation cult leaders

>>5005312
>because it's 2014 and I like to fap to traps

absolutely patrician

>>5005445
>life denying
wat

>western misunderstandings
>cult leaders
what

>>5005325
>What is it you think lasts forever?

we only live for about 80 years, so that's an unanswerable question for humans

>>5005403
If the universe ceases to exist then there is "nothing", "nothing" means no rules or anything at all. So eventually something, and since time can't exist in "nothing", it's always everything.

Prove me wrong you fucking faggot. We used to touch wieners before the big ban xD xD

Because [insert glib response that belies any understanding of Buddhism]

>>5005439
The sources are listed at the bottom of the page.

>>5005456

>>5005323
I'm a secular Buddhist.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Buddhism

>>5005467
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Buddhism

Buddhism without rebirth or is not buddhism

>>5005487
It depends on how you define "rebirth."
And "Buddhism," for that matter.

A concept of "rebirth" itself is not necessarily absent from secular Buddhism.

p.s. i like that dog he's a cutie i want to pat him :3

>>5005449
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

>>5005464
Wikipedia does not verify bias in its sources

>>5005501
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

>>5005501
I think the bigger problem was that you didn't clarify what, specifically, you were talking about.

You nonce. ;)

>>5005504

I never said it didn't. I'm asking for rebuttals of the arguments presented in those sources, not for an attack on Wikipedia.

>>5005520
Not the guy you're replying to at all, but >>5005402 here.

The only point I was making originally was that there were similarities between the teachings of Jesus and of the Buddha.
I don't personally believe that Jesus went off to Tibet or anything like that.
just that they teach somewhat similar things.

>>5005296
>claims to not be "a raging /x/-tier cock-chugger"
>defines self as "Pantheist/deist/animist"
>mfw

>>5005526
These similarities seem superficial. Ultimately, the Passion of Jesus is worlds apart from the Nirvana of Buddha.

Because it's wimpy. Trying to eradicate yourself because you find discomfort immensely anguishing? I can understand for someone who has it really bad, but for anyone in contemporary society, in a first-world country?

>>5005566
I don't think buddhists are necessarily wimpy. I don't think that dichotomy even applies to buddhists

>>5005289
because i dont know where to start with buddhism
sitting there thinking about nothing doesnt quite cut it for me

>>5005577
Wimpy as a value is ridiculous. I just mean that I am personally repulsed by the desire for self-annihilation as a way to escape any and all distress that's a part of life.

>>5005584
>sitting there thinking about nothing doesnt quite cut it for me
>me me me me me....me myself and I...mine mine

>I need to constantly be distracted and constantly satisfying various desire and urges..

Ya, that's kind of the point.

>>5005566

>first-world citizens

are either depressed, anxious or have ADHD

>>5005618
>Perhaps there is nothing that separates men or ages more profoundly than a difference in their knowledge of misery: misery of the soul as well as the body. Regarding the latter we modems may well be, all of us, in spite of our frailties and infirmities, tyros who rely on fantasies, for lack of any ample firsthand experience--compared to the age of fear. the longest of all ages, in which individuals had to protect themselves. In those days, one received ample training in bodily torments and deprivations and one understood even a certain cruelty against oneself and a voluntary habituation to pain as a necessary means of self-preservation. In those days, one educated those close to one to endure pain; in those days. one enjoyed inflicting pain and saw the worst things of this kind happen to others without feeling anything but--one's own safety. But regarding misery of the soul, I now look at every person to see whether he knows this from experience or only from descriptions; whether he still considers it necessary to simulate this knowledge, say, as a sign of refinement, or whether at the bottom of his soul he no longer believes in great pains of the soul and has much the same experience when they are mentioned that he has at the mention of great physical sufferings which make him think of his own toothaches and stomachache. But that is how matters seem to me to stand with most people today.

>The general lack of experience of pain of both kinds and the relative rarity of the sight of anyone who is suffering have an important consequence: pain is now hated much more than was the case formerly; one speaks much worse of it; indeed, one considers the existence of the mere thought of pain scarcely endurable and turns it into a reproach against the whole of existence.

>The emergence of pessimistic philosophies is by no means a sign of great and terrible misery. No, these question marks about the value of all life are put up in ages in which the refinement and alleviation of existence make even the inevitable mosquito bites of the soul and the body seem much too bloody and malignant and one is so poor in real experiences of pain that one would like to consider painful general ideas as suffering of the first order.

>There is a recipe against pessimistic philosophers and the excessive sensitivity that seems to me the real "misery of the present age"--but this recipe may sound too cruel and might itself be counted among the signs that lead people to judge that "existence is something evil." Well. the recipe against this "misery" is: misery.

>>5005641
>we moderns may well be

>>5005566
>but for anyone in contemporary society, in a first-world country?

anxiety, depression, ptsd, alienation, loss of meaning, cancerm aids, diseases i don't even know how to pronounce that kill you screaming in pain

>>5005648
I really don't think Buddhism will help if you have something like clinical depression or PTSD

>>5005641

The tears of the world are a constant quantity. For each one who begins to weep, somewhere else another stops. The same is true of the laugh.

Let us not then speak ill of our generation, it is not any unhappier than its predecessors...Let us not speak well of it either...Let us not speak of it at all...

>>5005641

the first paragraph is true and insightful. the rest is 'man the fuck up' which is an idiotic approach to suffering espoused by those who have never REALLY suffered

>>5005654
That's pretty true. A lot of the happiness of a generation comes from contrasting itself with previous generations and other parts of the world. But I'm saying that we don't live in a state of constant fear being tortured or enslaved or a chance famine. Being secure in that you won't die like that is a tremendous thing

>>5005566
You shouldn't let Nietzsche override your own thought to such an extent as to basically become a mouthpiece for his philosophy.

Read some of the Pali canon, the Tao, the Upanishads and other related eastern texts. Spend some time at a zen buddhist monastery (there are several in the US that allow you stay on for free granted that you do a bit of work).

Always read as much as a you can or else you're gonna end up as a stagnate Nietzscist or Stirnerist and so on.

I can tell you're basically rejecting Buddhism by regurgitating Nietzsche's refutation of Schopenhauer.

<-- For those of you interested in Buddhism,
but turned off by supernatural concepts.

>http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without-Beliefs-Contemporary-Awakening/dp/1573226564

Interview with Stephen Batchelor on (his ideas of) contemporary Buddhism.

pt1:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtqdBov6ck
pt2:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zOX0JVmOZw
pt3:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfSd0m_MN0
p4:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU_RPceStCU

>>5005612
so your saying that there is no theory in buddhism and its all practice?

>>5005656
I think he had Schopenhauer in mind, anon, and nihilist philosophers who bitch and moan about how much suffering their life is made of while workers in the industrial revolution struggled to survive and smile

>>5005584
Nothing is amazingly profound and we just so casually overlook it--as is evident in your post.

>>5005667 here.

Should clarify:
Batchelor was a Tibetan Buddhist monk for ~10 years,
and is a self-described Atheist who writes about Secular Buddhism.

>>5005668

what do you mean?

>>5005665
As is pretty well established here, I don't subscribe to Nietzsche's philosophy. I embrace nihilism in joy

I'm more talking about Western adaption than the texts themselves. Buddhism in the context of Thich Quan Duc is pretty powerful and awe-inspiring

To call someone a stagnant Stirnerist is to say someone is stagnant for not being superstitious. Stirner doesn't say what you "should" do or how you "should" act, he merely tears down metaphysics

I do reject Buddhism. It is a philosophy, but it is also a religion that posits values.

>>5005680
>I don't subscribe to Nietzsche's philosophy. I embrace nihilism in joy.

I think reading some of Heidegger's works would give you some valuable insight into the aspects of nihilism that you aren't considering.

>>5005680
>but it is also a religion that posits values.

What's wrong with that? If you are a nihilist then the "truth" of those values is irrelevant and posting them is just as fair as ignoring them.

>>5005680
>tripfag
>self-described "nihilist"
>mfw

also, filtered.

>>5005677
when i had written that sitting there thinking of nothing wanst good enough you replied something to the extent of you dont want the nothingness and instead want distractions to which i thought that meant that sitting there meditating was all there was to buddhism
to me it sounds as though your putting forward the view that buddhism is a rejection of trying to understand

>>5005692

don't forget to report and let the mods worry about banning them for whatever

>>5005697

...if you don't do the experiment you can't test the theory.

>>5005432
>tfw you realize Bankei's Unborn is the same as Stirner's 'creative nothing'

>>5005289

I always return to Zen practice out of necessity. It sooths my mind and balances me out.

>>5005698
>Rule 68: Imparting knowledge and understanding in a faith based thread.
This is /lit/ not /†/

>>5005692
A metaphysical nihilist. I don't actively deny the existence of everything

>>5005689
Perhaps

>>5005691
Not really. Once again, I'm a metaphysical nihilist, not an a nihilist in the Buddhist sense.

>>5005566
Yeah that monk who burnt himself alive without moving a muscle was a huge pussy

Buddhism is dumb and makes me mad. It's like the lazy version of communism.

>>5005740
>It's like the lazy version of communism.
Oh god what are you doing

>>5005718
Are you using 'faith based' as a pejorative? Because faith in Buddhist traditions is not the same as Judeo-Christian faith.

>>5005740
What?

>>5005744
It very clearly is though, you're dumb too. I also compare it to drug addiction, only without the drugs.

>>5005749
my fucking sides

>>5005751
Are retarded, I know. Try saying something intelligent.

Communism: "Let's throw off the materialistic lifestyle and live in oneness with each other! Build a world that fosters oneness!"

Buddhism: "Let's do the first part of that! No, no . . . I'm going to sit under this tree."

Dude on acid: "It's a nice tree, man."

>>5005753
Well where to even begin
Communism is a form of government, first of all, that Marx predicted would eventually succeed capitalism, wherein the workers owned their own means of production. Marx' critique of capitalism makes use of a very clearly defined dialectic

Buddhism is an ancient religion and philosophy that focuses on things like the nature of being, meaning, suffering, and the self. Much of buddhism is unteachable, and impossible to describe with language or logic

Drug addiction is a set of psychological and physiological symptoms and behaviors where the main problems are the supplanting of normal motivations with the drug and the ill effects of the substance.

These three things have essentially nothing to do with each other. Not only that they are fundamentally opposed in important ways, ie drug addiction is how Buddhists characterize normal motivation sometimes which they seek to escape from, Marxism makes use of extensive empirical and historical concepts impossible in Buddishm

>>5005753
Are you serious?

>>5005774
>a form of governmen
shouldve said economic system
Although it would imply a government

>>5005774
Dumb.

>>5005667

>I want to be able to call myself a Buddhist, but that's it

>>5005738
>>5005680
>I'm more talking about Western adaption than the texts themselves. Buddhism in the context of Thich Quan Duc is pretty powerful and awe-inspiring

>>5005467
> there is a Wikipedia article about it so it deserves respect!

I'm not Asian and I'm not a white person who is ashamed of their cultural heritage.

>>5005302

Buddhist teachings are often called the finger pointing at the moon by Buddhists for this very reason. You don't want to confuse the importance of the moon with the finger.

I'm actually going to another vipassana stint in a few weeks.

I don't consider myself a buddhist, though.

>>5005561
>>These similarities seem superficial. Ultimately, the Passion of Jesus is worlds apart from the Nirvana of Buddha.

The teachings of both are very similar. The emphasis both religions took as they organically grew is very different, the myth of the Passion is the centrepiece of Christianity because it fit what the church's narrative of sacrifice and suffering but any other number of themes can be picked from Jesus' life and teachings- some of which are very Buddhistic in nature. This can be followed in the dialogues of mystics through the centuries.

The same can be said for Buddha.

>>5005604

It's not escaping, it's accepting. Going into the pain rather than resisting is the more courageous choice.

>>5005526

Jesus taught Hellenistic Judaism heavily influenced by Platonic thought. Plato's work is very similar to Hindu thought, it could just be a coincidence but its possible that he was exposed to Hindu works, through the Persians or what have you.

>>5006289

Also all of the church fathers were neoplatonists.

⇒Why aren't you a Buddhist yet?

Because buddhism is anti-intellectual and detrimental. It preaches lazyness and ignorance. Buddhists reject knowledge, education, progress and advancement. Buddha was the ultimate NEET. The only reason he was able to live this absolutely pathetic and parasitic lifestyle was becasue he was born as a spoiled rich kid. Buddhism is simply incompatible with basic economic and societal facts of western civilization. No, you're not deep for being a lazy dumbfuck and "meditating" all day long. Get a fucking job.

>>5006294
Thanks for using that material conditional arrow constantly. Now I can filter you as I've never seen you post anything of value.

>>5005662
I think you're misunderstanding suffering. It doesn't mean that physical harm has to be involved, only that there is craving. The craving for anything is suffering, whether people are being tortured and killed or not.

I only have a very simple understanding of Buddhism (if that) so i may be wrong in what i say. But while it seems to have some admirable elements the whole philosophy just seems entirely meaningless to me, in the sense of trying to achieve the ultimate aim of Nirvana. I don't believe in reincarnation or re-birth, so i already presume that a cessation of existence is going to happen once i die, so i don't need to try and escape, it's already inevitable that i will do so after a very short period.

So in my view they spend their whole lives needlessly attaining something they already have.

While their attempted escape from suffering has it's merits, the things they view as suffering don't have to be that way if you don't view it in that way. For example, that attachment causes suffering. Yes, it can cause suffering, but it can also bring pleasure and other things to life.

They are living to attain death without truly living life at all. If you took out all the things like karma and samsara ect, they could just kill themselves to attain the same thing.

>>5005662
>I'm saying that we don't live in a state of constant fear being tortured or enslaved or a chance famine. Being secure in that you won't die like that is a tremendous thing

Go read the dialectic of lordship and bondage a few hundred more times.

>>5006289
>Jesus taught Hellenistic Judaism heavily influenced by Platonic thought
>heavily influenced by Platonic thought

Any evidence for this?

>>5006333
Buddhism does not deal with metaphysics. They are stories to help you learn to sit.

>>5006404
>Buddhism does not deal with metaphysics.
Now you done fucked up

>>5006297
Uh-oh. Arrow voiced her opinion again!

Childish.

buddhism has the same patriarchal hierarchies as other religions, but with even more obscure bullshit in its literature.

might be fun if you like purple prose and the illusion of following a "different" religion.

>>5006413
>voicing an opinion and trolling are the same thing
>even if it was an opinion and not a constantly recurring pattern of baiting I should have to read it

If arrow had posted things that weren't bad, I wouldn't have filtered her. I'm sorry that you find people filtering shitposts offensive. Maybe it hits a little too close to home?

>>5006476
Yes, we got it. You can't handle dissenting (and objectively correct) opinions. What are you even doing on 4chan?

>>5006497

>You can't handle dissenting (and objectively correct) opinions. What are you even doing on 4chan?

>>5006497
Actually I love dissenting opinions, especially when it's clear that the typist has something in the space behind their eyes.

Also, there's a word for objectively correct opinions. They are called "facts."

>>5006763
>implying there was anything factual about that post
>implying I even want to parse out clinical multipersonality disorder creep's comments to defend metaphysics

>reading this thread
HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU GUYS ARE SO FUCKING DUMB.

SO FUCKING DUMB.

NOT EVEN TROLLING. WHAT THE FUCK.

ARE YOU PEOPLE FUCKING SERIOUS????

SERIOUSLY.

I AM HONESTLY SHOCKED THAT *THIS* IS THE BEST THAT THE "INTELLECTUAL" BOARD HAS TO OFFER.

HOLY FUCKING GOD.

YOU SHOULD BE *EMBARRASSED* THAT YOU ARE THIS STUPID.

YOU SHOULD BE FUCKING *EMBARRASSED.*

>>5006865
Now I have literally no idea what you're on about.

Sorry, I think you're confused. Maybe you quoted me by accident somewhere earlier?

>>5006946
i have reason to believe you are >>5006941

>>5006763
>anime

opinion_discarded.tiff
did_not_read.wav

>>5005822
>you can only call yourself "Buddhist" if you're a skinny little bald Asian man in a robe
Fucking retard.

Can someone post that picture of the guy explaining how Buddhism is essentially nihilism and that it preaches psychological suicide (or something like that)?

>>5006959
>on 4chan

>>5006965
Psychological as well as social, but I have never seen that pic before.

>>5006965
just read Nietzsche

But yeah, buddhism pretty much is a nihilism, an aspiration to mediocrity.

>>5006976
As I understand it the Buddha believed samsara would end if everyone entered nirvana, so it's actually antinatalist. To end karma you need to cease being seen or seeing other people, and the entire human population would have to accomplish that and then just... die alone. This is why we don't listen to ascetics, they are underlyingly morbid.

>>5006952
>>5006959
lol

>>5005467
Secular Buddhism is called antinatalism m8.

>>5007018
well whats wrong with tha if ultimately it leads to nirvana?

>>5007070
>Others rather then be lost in the uncomfortable night of nothing, were content to recede into the common being, and make one particle of the publick soul of all things, which was no more then to return unto their unknown and divine Originall again. Ægyptian ingenuity was more unsatisfied, contriving their bodies in sweet consistences, to attend the return of their souls. But all was vanity, feeding the winde, and folly.

>>5005289
Because i dont know where to start, teach me anon.

Because I don't believe meditation has any real world benefits.

>>5007111
>not being meditated all the time

>>5007111
It's proven that it does. I find it makes me too calm and empty though, as the Fred said, "I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."

bump

>>5007179
I'd be interested in research from an unbiased source if possible.

Because I suffice myself.

Because Christianity is so much more based when you escape American protestantism

>>5007111
There is actually real, legitimate, scientific and empirical evidence that it does.

Maybe not in a "spiritual" or "supernatural" sense,
but in terms of improving mental health and general well-being, it's not even controversial that meditation has wonderful real-world benefits.

>>5007248
Here's a Huffington Post article talking about its benefits;
they list their sources.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/mindfulness-meditation-benefits-health_n_3016045.html

>life is suffering
>suffering, not perhaps in a physical sense (like getting a cigarette in the eye) but suffering in an existential sense; never truly feeling "complete" or "adequate"
>even the richest and most fortunate of us will one day die alone in agony, or see those we love perish
>the only way to end suffering is through "meditation" and through following a set of ethical principles that are structured to minimize suffering of self and of others
>meditation is not only the act of sitting, breathing, focusing, but it is a lifestyle of conscious observation and introspection
>because suffering is selfish in nature, if we destroy the self we destroy suffering
>"destroying the self" simply means arriving at a level of self-awareness wherein we can transcend our own petty selfishnesses and desires
>transcending in such a way is achieving "enlightenment" or "awakening"

I like it.

>>5005467
Ah, so you're a white guy appropriating Asian struggles.

>>5008266

suffering is unique to asians?

As an atheist I reject all religion.

>>5008288
>As an atheist I reject all religion.

atheism isn't sufficient for wisdom and a meaningful life, if you don't have you own religion you're still lost

>>5008266
>tumblr
Click the wrong bookmark, mate?

>>5008352
Said the lost fool.

>>5008970

he's right though even if foolish

>>5009482
nope

>>5008352

this ^
atheism is babby's first stepping stone, one that has to be overcome actually