/lit/ - Literature

>>4978196
Well there's the sticky. Does that still work?

You're that faggot who posted about 4 threads about ASOIAF a couple of days ago. You can't fool me, fagatron.

>>4978199
I never come to /lit/. Or /tv/ because everyone is mean.

>>4978198
I thought the sticky only showed like...timeless classics and shit. I don't know anything about books.

DAILY REMINDER DAILY REMINDER

just go to a fucking library and try out like ten different authors books that sound cool you gimp

your reading level is probably too shit to read anything decent anyway, whats the hardest/longest thing you've read?

assuming you've not read much just do yourself a favor and start with david gemmell get yourself a druss chronicles or waylander chronicles.

either that or get raymond fiests magician or robin hobbs assasins apprentice.

oh and shut the fuck up about martin, no need to even mention that. your thread would have been much nicer if you had just stuck to the point and not mentioned it.

Gormenghast.

>>4978196
Mistborn
Malazan Book of the Fallen
Night Angel trilogy
Abhorsen trilogy
The Black Company

read Hobbit and LOTR
read Dune
read a few Discworld novels

Now you can move on to some of >>4978198 if you want

>>4978253
abhorsen is another good starter, easy read and quite a good series

malazan book of the fallen is very good but it's not exactly an easy read, don't even bother if you haven't read anything else yet.

>>4978255
hobbit is also a very good starter

>>4978231
No, the reason GRRM is seen as a bad writer is because he writes genre fiction for man children

>better
>fantasy

tallest midget etc.

>>4978293
gayest faggot

>>4978279
The thing is....he's not seen as a bad writer. He is universally praised. You and your ilk just put him down to make yourselves feel better.

>>4978306
he is a faggot and you are a faggot
we have been over this fucking over and over

everyone was on board at books 1-2 he was releasing every 2 years. thats when everyone was talking it up. those first 2 books arent actually that bad.

now its a 5 year wait for each book with all the good characters killed off. the series had promise he just didnt deliver.

He is not universally praised, its all just publishing hype and bandwagon bullshit.

>>4978329
No, I'm pretty sure that he's still very highly regarded.

>>4978334
yeah by first time readers, publishing hacks and bandwagon nitwits.

>>4978338
You seem upset.

>>4978351
yeah I paid for the first three books and waited five years for the next book

waste of time and money

>>4978357
So were you just sitting at home, waiting in anticipation of the next book? You had nothing else you could be doing to pass the time.

/lit/ keeps calling GRRM a bad writer, but all I keep seeing is the same bitching about Dany having the runs at the end of DWD.
I enjoy the books greatly, but your argument would be stronger if it weren't focused on the same three paragraphs.

Also, is Wheel of Time worth bothering with?

>>4978359
yeah, I camped out the local book store eschewing food and water eagerly awaiting the the day it hit the shelves

idiot

>>4978367

>>4978367
yeah wheel of time is alright, it has its moments. It's just a bit too long and a bit of a slog at times.

If he had condensed it to ten books he would have finished it before dying and it could have been very good.

It is certainly better than a song if ice and fire.

>>4978378

>>4978279
can you stop being a faggot
0/10

>>4978382

>>4978338
>>4978329
>>4978357
could you take the dick out of your ass and just enjoy something

>>4978386

>>4978388
read the thread my posting style is obvious

I have already recommended a whole range of very enjoyable fantasy works

i'm trying to break into fantasy /lit/

I'm read the first 60 pages of ASOIAF and I feel like, despite their being some ok imagery, it's just like watching the show that i've already seen.

>>4978231
>there are people on /lit/ right now, that still think posting this pic makes them seem smart. I'm not even a GRRM fan. Read the first three. Not a fan. But this pic was obvious put together by some elitist neckbeard faggot. Notice the way he selectively chooses the most crass GRRM passage and the most elegant Fitzgerald one. Note how the author of this pic draws attention to GRRM's representation of archaic slang (cock, cunt) and calls that an indicator of GRRM's horrible writing.

There are intelligent critiques of GRRM's prose. This is not one of them.

>>4978396
that whole thing was not meant to be greentexted. Fuck you

>>4978396
pretty much this

this le enlightened shit >>4978231 is so embarrassing to read and I don't even give one fuck about GRRM

>>4978396
Why read GRRM when one can read Rilke, Goethe, Holderlin, Celan, Woolf, Joyce, Kafka, and so on?

>>4978396
>>4978388
>>4978384
alright enlighten us on why its so good then?

its devoid of any deeper meaning, backstabbing seems to be the entire point of the series, all the honorable characters have been made purposefully stupid all of the characters are crass there is only a handful that have any charisma or that are barely likable, tyrion, jamie, jon, arya. the vast majority of the characters are insufferable cunts.

the magic is boring and cliche, a few wolves, a couple dragons and the undead, nothing new not even a decent take on existing themes barely even touched on or used in most of the series.

its riddled with childishly written 'shock' scenes that aren't even imaginative as well as obvious screen writing constant cliff hangers and lame edgy plot twists.

the subject of the majority of the series seems to be entirely based on backstabbing and gossip. its some of the shallowest shit out.

so why, why exactly is it any good?

>>4978418
what the fuck is wrong with reading all of those and still enjoying GRRM

get your head out of your ass

>>4978420
Because someone who truly understood the deep, poetic dwelling of Holderlin and Rilke wouldn't spend their time reading mediocre, commodified cash cows.

>>4978421
yeah but someone who enjoyed the deep poetics of Hölderlin and Rilke might still enjoy fun

there is very little point in bashing a fantasy writer for not being among the best of modernism's greatest poets and novelists

i would never read GRRM and as i said i don't give one fuck about him, but i don't presume to criticize him or his readers for enjoying themselves

also, if you're going to criticize a writer's prose, simply comparing him to other writers in the long established canon doesn't make for a very good argument

>Fantasy books not written by Tolkien

Into the trash they go

>>4978432
The transformative, revealing potential of literature does not reside in the level of enjoyment it producers in readers. That seems to be the only defense that readers offer of GRRM and similar commercial authors.

Why should enjoyment and the objects that people derive enjoyment from be free from criticism. I think it speaks to the depravity of contemporary life that brief moments of enjoyment are so treasured.

>there are people who start reading fantasy with some third-rate franchise
>not starting with the best adventure ever written
>no boring pretentious politics and psychology
>a true fantastical world with wonders and interesting beings
>immersive as fuck

>>4978432
>yeah but someone who enjoyed the deep poetics of Hölderlin and Rilke might still enjoy fun
>qualifying something as "fun" in a discussion about the merits of a work despite "fun" being completely subjective

>>4978459
forgot pic

>>4978459
And what would that be? Alice in Wonderland?

>>4978447
Its always the same, baseless defense.

They shit on you for saying you don't like it but they can never explain why it is any good, why they like it, why it is fun to them.

It all seems to come down to this kind of base level "its more fun than staring at a wall" argument.

Completely ignoring everything that has ever been written ever including all fantasy.

Yeah I mean eventually staring at a wall would probably get anyone, after ten years or so you could probably get me to read harry potter or even twilight god forbid.

>>4978463
Alice is pretty great for a start, too, and the sequel.

>>4978468
I read them recently, they're great. Lewis Carroll is an amazingly agile writer. I'm normally not a big fan of poetry, but his poems and songs are great, especially Jabberwocky.

>>4978367
No, WoT is shit. It has every fantasy cliche you can think of and brings nothing new to the genre. It's paced terribly, be ready to read thousands of pages where nothing happens.

>>4978447
>The transformative, revealing potential of literature does not reside in the level of enjoyment it producers in readers.

i don't even disagree with this, nothing i've said would indicate otherwise

>Why should enjoyment and the objects that people derive enjoyment from be free from criticism

i never said this either. criticize away, but doing so from a standpoint of masterworks is missing the point of reading GRRM. It's like criticizing a popular movie like Lord of the Rings for not being Last Year at Marienbad. they are completely different in scope and ambition, and that does not automatically make LotR a bad movie (though you may justifiably think it is)

>>4978466
i've never wanted to explain why GRRM is good. as i've already said twice now, i don't care about him at all. all i'm saying is that rejecting it simply because it isn't Rilke is meaningless and dogmatic

also, i never said that enjoyment should be the number one criteria for reading, i'm just saying there is nothing wrong with it. of course it's easier to just misread me and then disagree instead of actually replying to the points i've made

>>4978255
>LOTR

I read one of the LOTR books in middle school, way before it became popular and turned into a movie and they're shit.

Don't get me wrong the fantasy genre wouldn't be the same without Tolkien but the books are an absolute bore.

>>4978196
The fantasy that any genre fiction book is worth a penny.

>Asking for genre fiction recs
>New to /lit/.

Was there ever a more redundant sentiment?

>>4978662
Fuck off

China melvile
Borges

>>4978196
ASOIAF is a textbook example of "hated because it's popular"

This is obvious to anyone who's read more than a few books from the genre

I don't think you should be overly concerned with /lit/'s opinion in general

>>4978367
>but all I keep seeing is the same bitching about Dany having the runs at the end of DWD.

that's because they haven't actually read it

>>4978380
>bashes GRRM but praises WoT
promptly kill yourself

>>4978419
you hit the nail on the head anon

>>4978394
Yeah, I felt the same, so I read the chapter summaries and picked up at Storm of Swords.

It was slightly confusing for a while but definitely doable.

>>4978418
I probably have another 50 years of my life to read shit

>>4978662
>way before it became popular
those books have been popular for over half a century, not since the films came out

>>4978419
>its devoid of any deeper meaning
can you appreciate a book that's not a long winded allegory? simply by mimicking reality, fiction covers a wide variety of themes. GRRM's work could lead a person to reflection, but there is no grand moral statement being made here.

I spit on anyone who maintains the notion that no book written purely for entertainment can be respected

>backstabbing seems to be the entire point of the series
it's one of many recurrent themes

>the magic is boring and cliche
the migration from low to high fantasy in the span of a single story is not cliche

you're also suggesting that fantastic elements should always be the main attraction of a fantasy series. in ASOIAF they are secondary

>its riddled with childishly written 'shock' scenes that aren't even imaginative
there is nothing objective about this judgement

>as well as obvious screen writing constant cliff hangers and lame edgy plot twists.
this though, is mostly right. sadly the only valid critique you've made.

>so why, why exactly is it any good?
frankly, the burden of proof is on you

I'm sure you've read your fair share of GRRM praise. you're likely predisposed to handwave everything.

>>4978836
Depends on your definition of popular.

>>4978952
"Best selling novels warranting multiple reprints" might do the trick.
LoTR got popular in the 60's.

are the Malazan books worth reading?

>>4978253
asoiaf is way better than mistborn m8

>>4978394
you can pretty much skip the first book and maybe the second book. past the third book is where most of the major changes start happening between the show and the books

>>4979011
Yes. It's not an easy read, though. For various reasons. I got to book 4 then took an elongated break.

>>4978198
>sticky includes Ice and Fire

>>4978253
>Night Angel trilogy
Is this a joke?

ASOIAF is a fucking masterpiece in comparison.

>>4978394
Read the start of chapter 39, then start the second book.

>>4978662
>I read one of the LOTR books in middle school, way before it became popular
So you're what? 90?

what is /lit/'s opinion on Ken Follet's historical novels? I've always seen him as pleb shit tier, but a lot of well-read people whose opinion I respect recommended some of his books, I'm confused.

I stumbled across this passage and thought it would be relevant to this too-often-posted topic. Here you are, /lit/:

>It was once said, and very rightly, that a man who is well brought-up may read anything. The only people who boggle at what is perfectly natural are those who are the worst swine and the finest experts in filth. In their utterly contemptible pseudo-morality they ignore the contents and madly attack individual words. Years ago I read a criticism of a novelette, in which the critic was furious because the author had written: “He blew his nose and wiped it.” He said that it went against everything beautiful and exalted which literature should give the nation.
This is only a small illustration of what bloody fools are born under the sun.

>>4978821
Agreed, funny how I read the books because of recommendations on /lit/, this was before the show aired of course.

>>4978196
>unanimously hated by /lit/ trolls series
FTFY

Also, it's better than anything else that's why /lit/ hates it, because deep down they know that all their fantasy writer dreams are forever going to be measured against ASOIAF and not LOTR

>>4978380
>It is certainly better than a song of ice and fire.
>WOT
Do you people even read the things you post before you post them? How utterly biased must you be to hold this opinion?

>>4978196
>decide to stop being showfag
>decide to read books
>check Internet in morning
>"GRRM WANTS YOU TO CREATE A CHARACTER AND KILL HIM OFF IN THE NEXT BOOK"

Even the illusion of this shit being "art" is gone now.

http://www.cinemablend.com/pop/George-RR-Martin-Wants-Write-You-Game-Thrones-Kill-You-Off-64506.html

>>4978196
this board has one of the worst mob mentalities, don't listen to anything they say,especially w/r/t books that don't have the Harold Bloom Seal of Approval. Don't fall into the trap of trusting /lit/. they're good for the discussion of certai kinds of books, but they're shit writers and even worse with recommendations.

>>4979716
Frankenstein was written on a bet, and half of Nabokov's books were probably written one-handed. Why would this stop it from being art?

>>4979716
Fuck off.

>>4979739
>written on a bet

So Frankenstein was changed partially during its creation on a bet in order to provide terrible fan-service? Get real.

In GRRM's case, this becomes even worse than I initially thought because he's claimed time and again that he has the rest of the story figured out, and he's just in the process of writing it now. This is akin to terrible, hamfisted DLC. It's cheap and tacky

>>4978432
>muh fun
Pleb
>>4979725
Buttmad pleb detected
>>4978864
>can you appreciate a book that's not a long winded allegory?
No because I'm not a fucking pleb like you.
Literature should be an art, not some filth that you consume mindlessly.

>>4979773
>>can you appreciate a book that's not a long winded allegory?
>No because I'm not a fucking pleb like you.
you are the worst kind of person I have ever met

>>4979866
So?

>>4979773
>muh headup my ass retardation
Pleb.

>>4979885
Except I'm not a pleb like you.
Only a pleb would defend genrefiction.

>>4979897
Only a pleb would visit /lit/.

ooga booga wer da wit womin at

>>4979901
No
My bloodline is derived from the original patricians so I can't be pleb

>>4979923
OI ROIGT THAR GUVNA WAZA MAIRAY POPPANS DOION TOODOY THAN AYE

>>4979923
Hi Elliot!

>>4978196
>>4978198
>>4978199
>>4978200
>>4978231
>>4978249
>>4978252
>>4978253
>>4978255
>>4978269
>>4978279
>>4978293
>>4978299
>>4978306
>>4978329
>>4978334
>>4978338
>>4978351
>>4978357
>>4978359
>>4978367
>>4978369
>>4978378
>>4978380
>>4978382
>>4978384
>>4978386
>>4978388
>>4978389
>>4978391
>>4978394
>>4978396
>>4978400
>>4978413
>>4978418
>>4978419
>>4978420
>>4978421
>>4978432
>>4978443
>>4978447
>>4978459
>>4978460
>>4978462
>>4978463
>>4978466
>>4978468
>>4978474
>>4978500
>>4978523
>>4978662
>>4978676
>>4978711
>>4978797
>>4978810
>>4978821
>>4978827
>>4978831
>>4978832
>>4978835
>>4978836
>>4978864
>>4978952
>>4978990
>>4979011
>>4979014
>>4979021
>>4979024
>>4979517
>>4979523
>>4979530
>>4979535
>>4979547
>>4979571
>>4979674
>>4979699
>>4979713
>>4979716
>>4979725
>>4979739
>>4979741
>>4979756
>>4979773
>>4979866
>>4979881
>>4979885
>>4979897
>>4979901
>>4979923
>>4979927
>>4979943
see >>4979914
an nigger

Any good recommendations for a hard fantasy series? I find it annoying when magic basically has no rules and no limits and becomes a deus ex machina for anybody who has it.

>>4980022
Full Metal Alchemist.

>>4980022
Perdido Street Station

>>4978196
I dont think there are.

And there are some very upset people rating and ranking art as if that can be done here.

Using writers name as Goethe and etc.

You should know better, shame on you.

>>4978253
LOL... are you a bot?

I'm the "list fag", that guy who posts a screenshot of audiobooks and recommends them to anons.

You have to be stalking me because a few weeks back I posted those same exact books in the same exact order... I know there can't be a bunch of anons here who actually share my exact taste, you all want IJ and Gravity's rainbow

Pic related the list.

I love it when some pseudo-intellectual vocal minority tries to enforce its little uppity (and completely deluded) vision of what is literature and what /lit/ should be. Many tier charts suggest that /lit/ should be a very close circle of "patricians" (concept stolen from /mu/) collectively circle-jerking about Ulysses, Finnegans Wake and Infinite Jest. In reality, no one has ever read FW, maybe three people have read Ulysses and IJ is mainly used for trolling purposes. It's also funny to watch how /lit/ used to love ASOIAF back in the days and then started hating it with all its guts because it was adapted in a "popular" (!) TV show. Those who remember the shitfest that was early /lit/ (the same shitfest that made mods create an artificial rule 3 about Ayn Rand) can't and won't ever take /lit/ seriously.

>>4980105
Yeah, this.

/lit/ even brought me to ASOIAF when I asked for good fantasy few years back.

I think people who've spent time to read all those books they gloat about in their posts would know better than to do that (ranking books in such way, gloating etc.) if they had read them.

I've looked for better fantasy, and I've only found one - and even then its a scifi mixture. Book of the New Sun, the one better fantasy series than ASOIAF for me.

Gene Wolfe is a much better writer overall.

>>4978231
This is one of the most retarded pics I've seen.

Their writing styles are different; they come from different time periods. Both authors also write in different genres.

And I like how the creator of the pic chooses a short paragraph about shitting to the entry by Fitzgerald which, in just sheer words, is double the size of Martin's.

tl;dr At least go for a fair comparison.

>>4980110
Read anything from >>4980099 other than BOTNS and ASOIAF??

Fun fact: /lit/ recommended about 70-80% of those books the other were either taken on a whim from my book tracker or Goodreads' "similar to this" recommendations.

>>4978231
Back in the days someone posted one with James Joyce's Ulysses ("stately, plump Buck Mulligan etc.") and some of Tao Lin's crap as good writing. I wish someone remembered the thread and pointed me to the relevant archive link.

>>4980143
I've read a good bunch of them during my life.

>>4980099
pls torrent to all of them
i'll suck your dick and fondle your balls and gargle your cum and bear your children and call you darling everyday

>>4980153
>implying your female
Some(10%) was taken from demonoid when it was up.... it's back but I heard it's a honeypot now.
The others were taken from a private tracker sorry, other you could try
theaudiobookbay.com
and
audiobookvault.ws

I used to use them when I was on demonoid when demonoid didn't have what I wanted(or it was too dirty for them)

>>4978253
>Malazan Book of the Fallen
made it to #8
fuck this shit. did he have a bunch of small strokes and/or breakdowns while writing this series

>>4978386
>tfw this happens on Sunday

>>4980222
>implying i'm not
how about you host a torrent on tpb?

Dune by Frank Herbert

But don't read any of his son's books, they blow ass

I actually think WOT is a good fantasy. Not the best, but alright.

It's a grand adventure epic and you don't see those that much anymore. The travel and different locations all really add to it.

Sure, it does have some problems. The middle drags and it probably could have been told in 10 instead of 14 books. However, now that it is done IMO it will age better. It has a set beginning/middle/end and Jordan at least knew where he was going.

Martin seems like he is coming up with it as he goes since book 4.

>>4980419
>implying you would give away your vagina just like that
Also I have shitty upload speeds(DSL) and I'm not at home as much as I used to be got a job.. currently typing from said job and I don't leave my PC on if I leave my house.

>>4979773
Heh, naive

>>4980486
>Jordan at least knew where he was going.

I doubt it. Book 14 was shockingly bad, and this is coming from someone who thinks book 12 is the second best of the series.

>>4980486
>>4981664

>>4980486
>Jordan at least knew where he was going.

Martin actually has an ending in place, but he's made a right mess struggling to get there.

Jordan/Sanderson's ending was laughable.

>>4978196
Hey, when I get my novel published, you could read that.
There are always new books being released. Try a new release at your local bookstore.

If that fails, just read the Iliad and the Odyssey again.

The Chronicles of Amber by Zelasny

Guardians of Ga'Hoole.

How the fuck do you even have patience to read series with 10+ books? That shit is crazy.

>>4982458
I gotta admit I read maybe 1000 pages a month peak, so I would read a 12 book series in over a year. Over a fucking year! Nothing else. Because I am so casual reader I cannot into GRRM or Robert Jordan.

Eragon

>>4982458
And what's crazier, actually writing one.

Is there something like "Mononoke-hime" story? Meditative, atmospheric, poetic, with a lot of nature and, maybe, mythology.

>>4982485
In your defense, Wheel of Time is even more overrated than ASOIAF.