/lit/ - Literature

buddhism a shit

try hinduism

>buddhism
>morality
lol

>>4955956
>white
>buddhist
top kek faggots
>>4955968
Hinduism is direct plagiarism
at least other religions put their own spin on things, they just stole it and changed a couple names.

Scientology is new age Buddhism.

L Ron Hubbard is the Metteyya.

Bump for interest. Do Buddhists have a canon, or does everyone just read whatever they feel like as if it was still the first millenium BCE?

Buddhism is fucking awful. Just read philosophy instead of that quietist folk religion shit.

Or enjoy hanging out with faggot hipster orientalists.

>>4955956
Read the Tibetan Book of the Dead if you're interested. I find it awesome

But the most important for a "beginner" is to meditate a lot. A lot really. It'll feel nice

>>4955956
how does it feel to be a wannabe?

>>4955956
>>4956120
Buddhism has "extreme" anti-materialistic views so Westerners hate it. I grew up in a 3rd world so it's very easy for me to swallow Buddhism's teachings. I'm sure you will hate it too especially if you start too strong.

Read Thich Nhat Hanh books for intro reading.

A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life is a must read.

If you don't want to spend $$$ there's lot of free teachings in the internet.
http://lamamarut.org/audio-video-downloads/dharma-essentials/
Try listening to Dharma essentials first

Believe nothing; question everything.

www.accesstoinsight.org
www.berzinarchives.com/
www.rigpawiki.org
Path of Purification

Dhammapada is nice

>>4955956
Early Buddist Discourses by Holder

>>4956120
>Do Buddhists have a canon

the Pali Canon. But it's too long to read, it's like a million pages.

Taoism(Daoism) > Buddhism

>>4956130
>>4956151

>being this threatened by an eastern philosophy
Ignore this pleb.


OP, I suggest the following:

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism
Alan Watts

Also read the fundamental sutras:
1 Lankavatara Sutra
2 Diamond Sutra
3 Vimalakirti Sutra
4 Avatamsaka Sutra

Fire Sermon is cool too.

>>4956781
Hinduism >>>

>>4956811
>Hinduism >>>

>>4956812
kill urself white nigga

>>4955956
Here is a nice video on the difference between the two largest schools

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BlZDpQ07cY

Once you get your basic info down this would be a nice vid to watch

Siddhartha by Herman the German is babbys intro to Buddhism.

>>4956822
>Here is a terrible video on one man's misconceptions about Buddhism

I laughed heartily

Lurking. Highly relevant to my current interests. I am at this moment very interested in Indian spiritual texts, I am reading both The Bhagavad Gita (not a Buddhist script though sorry, but slightly related in philosophy) and the Tibetan Book of the Dead (very Buddhist). Also I've been trying to read the Bible, but you know...

The thing about Buddhism is, it has no central text. There are only "treasure teachings" and revealed texts of accomplished Buddhist monks, which form a school of thought known as dharma (also a Hindu term) or dhamma. Apologies if I've got this wrong or slightly incorrect, I'm only a layman as of now.

Once I've read these two books, I'm going to pick up the Upanishads (Hindu I know) and Penguin's collection of Buddhist Scriptures.

There's something that draws me to these religious texts, I don't know what it is. I am a staunch atheist but I find them fascinating, the philosophy is profound and I think it will have a positive impact on my life.

Sorry if this post is rambling a bit. OP I recommend the Tibetan Book of the Dead, but only once you've introduced yourself to Buddhist concepts beforehand, as it can be a bit too much all at once.

Buddhist here.

I have been reading this account by Sayadow U Jotika, "Snow in the Summer." It may seem very simple - it is. I quite like it. One of the most enjoyable and inspiring books I've ever read.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/jotleeds.pdf

A great overall intro to Buddhism is Lopez' "The Story of Buddhism: A Concise Guide to its History and Teachings".

the way we view religion in the west makes it very easy to drastically misunderstand what Buddhism "is". Lopez does a great job at covering all the bases. Just remember that Buddhist history and thought is very old and has moved and been appropriated countless times. "Real" Buddhism is a myth.

>>4956120
Have you read the deer park sermon? If you want some of the metaphysics you could try Nagasena, or 'a how to read Nagasena' which might be more useful.
The practical side would be around the noble eightfold path so look into things regarding that.

>>4956779
Is there no condensed canon? Like Hinduism, where the canon is even bigger, but all the attention goes to the Bhagavad Gita. What's the Bhagavad Gita of the Buddhists?

>>4957699
The Dhammapada.

>I want to start practicing the lifestyle and morality beliefs of the religion more than the spiritual side
Get the same job your dad had and do it to the best of your abilities
>>4955975
What's Hinduism plagiarism of?

>>4957705
>What's Hinduism plagiarism of?
the divine and eternal Truth.

http://buddhizm.altervista.org/index.html

why the fuck would you decide you wanted to be a buddhist before you even knew what buddhism was?

>>4957711
True THAT one, right the heck over there
My beliefs are something of Hinduism mixed with European paganism, Islam, Christianity and mild scientism

Tibetan book of the dead is NOT a good text for a beginner. If you want a better intro on Tibetan buddhism, read Words of my Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche.

buddhism
>originated as a yogic sect in central india roughly 2500 years ago
>existed somewhat harmoniously with other sects like jainism
>emerged from this culture of asceticism and contemplative, meditative based philosophy
>although it rejected both extreme asceticism and indulgence as extremes, it is still an austere way of life by modern standards, philosophically and practically
>buddha was not a smiling, fat, jokester
>he was a strict disciplinarian [when he died it's actually written that at least one monk said "phew, now we can live how we want instead of by 'do this', 'don't do that'"], probably skeleton thin from walking a lot and eating alms food without picking and choosing what he ate
>there are no jokes or humor in the pali canon attributed to buddha
>it is more realistic to visualize the buddha as an alien-like, impersonal, detached meditator than a smiling, go lucky, goofball as popularly portrayed these days
>even during buddha's life, the sangha (monk community) experienced schisms
>after his death, more
>theravada buddhism is the oldest currently active sect, as close to original buddhism as we will get, and it has preserved the oldest buddhists texts in the samyutta-nikaya in the pali language; it has been proven to be more complete than the chinese agama collection and more true to the original philosophy
>theravada is therefore the closest sect of buddhism to the original movement, it contains what the historical buddha actually taught [this is immensely significant]
>later sects, especially the major splintering into mahayana across asia, with their own texts purporting to be the buddha's words, ARE NOT! [again, so damn significant]
>samyutta-nikaya imo contains the original philosophy and practice of buddhism 100% and is not a sectarian teaching
>all other sects like tibetan buddhism are superfluous, strayed from the original teaching by mixing in native tibetan elements (same for wherever buddhism seed grew, like how in japanese mahayana buddhism it absorbed japanese elements)
>original buddhism is a radical philosophy and practice of non-identity and detachment
>the pali canon is massive indeed but highly repetitious, in a good way
>imo that was the peculiar style of the buddha, to repeat with rote repetition his teaching, drilling it into the minds of monks
>the basic message is contained in one sutta, reflected thousands of times in others
>this basic message is to disidentify with the 'five aggregates' and abandon desire for them
>the goal is nibbana which basically means extinction, going out, like a fire having run out of fuel
>buddhism is not about finding some kind of fortune cookie wisdom to help you live your normal life
>it's about dropping out and withdrawing within until you go extinct
>it is more profound, more serious than all greek philosophers and philosophies superficially respected on /lit/
>you can be any color skin; buddha was an aryan himself and not the 711 hindu /lit/ imagines

>>4955956
http://palicanon.org/

>all these posts
>only one mentions the pali canon

Just get an anthology of selections from the Pali canon off amazon. It's the closest thing there is to the Buddha's own words.

All you whities get shit so complicated. Don't even think of getting into shit like zen please. Just read the canon, learn the four noble truths, the eightfold path, and go to a local buddhist temple so they can teach you some basics of meditation.

Once you've done that for a few years and have traveled around Southeast Asia and maybe done a couple study periods at temples, then you can start reading your Tibetan book of the dead and your Tao and your Zen.

You've got people in Laos and Burma and shit who have been monks since they were children. Don't think you can just jump in after listening to some Alan Watts.

>>4957772
a lot of those native monks are actually much more ignorant than a westerner who has spent about five years self-educating himself on buddhism with the internet

there are torrents with thousands of books on buddhism available. once you've read a thousand books and meditated on your own time, those native monks will think you're a god. they're mostly there for complex social reasons, while the western convert is usually already an intellectually curious seeker who will read more on the subject in a month than a monk in fucking burma will in his lifetime.

true shit. you find this out about every religious tradition if you go into it deep enough - the actual believers repeating their prayers/chants in the native language don't even know what theyre saying.

>>4957789

>a lot of those native monks are actually much more ignorant than a westerner who has spent about five years self-educating himself on buddhism with the internet

this is what neckbeard fedoras actually believe.

>>4957796
this is how disinfo actually appears on message boards

A ostensibly Buddhist state takes advantage of Australia’s multiculturalism and subversively spreads Buddhism throughout its culture. They have some success, but it never quite catches on because people only care about how they can package it to fit in with their personality — a word now interchangeable with ‘identity’. Anti-intellectualism is also a wall. The invading state reduces Buddhism to a marketable form and pushes it through retail stores and social media instead. Buddhism becomes highly trendy to espouse. Soon the great majority of the population consider it their religion, although they only know what’s been sold to them. Eventually it breaches the government. The prime minister, who by now has so much executive power his authority is almost absolute, tries to remain popular by changing the law to best suit the marketed Buddhism. The Buddhist state's invasion goes seamlessly.

>>4957800
>>4957796
I have a friend who's traveled pretty extensively in SEA a couple times and has stayed at his share of Buddhist communities. He's told me that some of the monks pretty regularly break monk rules and will sometimes actually be dicks to the surrounding village/town.

The sentiment still stands though. People like OP can't expect to pick up a few beginner's guides to Buddhism and "get it." It takes intense study and a pretty radical lifestyle shift. It's not just about being more "zen" and meditating every now and then.

>>4957877
I have a Thai friend that was a Monk growing up then moved here to the U.S. and now he does hip hop dancing

>>4957857
Oh lord, this is what's happened with the new age.

>muh boomers

Those evil fucks have twisted it into an evil machine which they use to justify their greed and callousness.

>the material world doesn't matter.
>I can make all the money I want.
>I don't even have to pay you.
>Material want is the gateway to pain, son.
>I'm helping you.

>You need to do things meditatively
>that's why I'm firing you.

>We can destroy the environment
>It's just dust

hey /lit/

I have a buddhist character in one of my stories. i'm trying to think of an alternative to the word "spiritual" for him to use in the context of describing the seriousness of his religious beliefs.

in other words an alt word for "i'm very spiritual". i don't think the word spiritual is appropriate in a buddhist context since buddhists literally deny spirit and gods and typical spiritual ideas. buddhist belief and practice seems to me more like an indian stoicism than mysticism, although it has meditative mystical elements to it.

>>4957918

ALL THINGS WILL BE CONSUMED

>>4957857
>>4957918
I don't have a full grasp of what I'm reading, but I like it.

>>4955956
Dzogchen, since its takes an agnostic stance towards just about all metaphysical/ontological matters and is focused on experience and the experiential solution to the problem of existential lack (like the Buddha).

Zen or Chan is second to that, but their 'true mind' doctrine does implicitly entail ontological and metaphysical claims.

I found this helpful to get acquainted to the various schools, it says its a draft version but overall I found it helpful:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/218160907/The-Art-of-Nakedness-Bearing-it-all-for-the-single-nature-of-mind-a-look-at-Buddhist-salvation

>>4955968
hinduism is shit, try buddhism

>>4958028
Australians. Best not to think to hard on it

>>4956120
The pali cannon is has 10,000 different texts, and the Tibetan cannon is still being sorted through but has quite a bit more.

Some of the texts are book length and I have seen estimates where there are over 500,000 different Buddhist texts.

>>4956822
That is wrong though, there are not "two largest schools" that are being discussed, but rather categories of schools or 'meta-traditions', Mahayana isn't a school, but a collection of MANY different traditions like Zen, Yogachara, and Madhyamaka. Furthermore, each has schools within it that have various and sometimes opposing positions. Like svatantrika madhyamaka versus prasangika madhyamaka, or furthermore rengtong versus shengtong.

Same goes with Hinayana, which comprises many dead traditions (like the original 18 schools which predate theravada) and concerning theravada there are several different schools of it. Like the forest tradition, another which has cast out theravada atomic realism, and one which is Thai theravada tantra (that's right, theravada tantra), to name a few.

Sorry for spelling, on my phone and I suck.

>>4957699
>>4957703

The Dhammapada is NOT a condensed canon for all of Buddhism, don't fucking kid yourself.

Basically there is no condensed canon because each sect prefers different texts.

>>4957705
>What's Hinduism plagiarism of?

The general scholarly consensus is that Hinduism as we know it today was very reactionary towards Buddhism and was highly influenced by it, incorporating swaths of its teachings and positions and putting their brahmanistic spin on them..


Hinduism =/= Brahmanism.

>>4957751
>as close to original buddhism as we will get


Wrong, look up the great schism, modern scholars say that the theravada vinaya was an addition to the original, and what became mahayana wanted things to remain true to the original texts.

This among MANY reasons, such as Theravada texts being established for political reasons and exuded monks from over a dozen schools that didn't agree with their view points during the writing of them.

There is not justification for saying it is closest to the words of the Buddha.

>>4958061
that's like saying Zoroastrianism's ripped off from the Abrahamic religions, isn't it?

>>4957751
I like some of your points like the line visualizing Buddha as a detached alien, as it seems more likely considering how the Pali texts portray him.

With that said, your views on 'the original teachings' and mahayana are highly flawed. A good portion of the original 18 schools which predated theravada had views which contradict theravada on several key points, such as that arhats had not attained perfect enlightenment and were still subject to passions. Furthermore, many emphasized the bodhisattva path and the original pure mind of sentient beings.

It was king ashoka who was trying to establish and orthodox that lead to the Pali texts, which were highly controversial. They are NOT any closer to the original philosophy and were politically motivated.

Considering some of the views advocated by many of the original 18 schools, the Buddha's philosophy might of been much more akin to Dzogchen, Zen, or certain Mahayana sub-divisions, like forms of madhyamaka.

>>4957789
This is very true, I have been to monasteries in places like Burma and Thailand, and you would be shocked how many Theravada monks have never read the texts, they just rely on catch-phrase oral teachings from their 'masters'. Furthermore, the actual texts each monastery has are usually locked away and prayed too...instead of being studied and read.

The non-protestant/protestant tension is prevalent throughout virtually all of Buddhism's history. With all the great masters of Buddhism basically consisting of people who actually studied and practiced the texts and would reorient people back towards a protestant Buddhism.

Having said that, the vast majority of western contemplatives are shit that half-ass their study and practice.

>>4958068
No it isn't.

>>4957726
>why the fuck would you decide you wanted to be a buddhist before you even knew what buddhism was?

Because these people like the idea of 'being Buddhist' more than the religion itself.

Like all religions which don't profess Christ to be our Savior, it's shit. Read the fucking Bible, you heathen fuck

>>4958114

the /lit/ christian contingent is even dumber and more obnoxious than white buddhists. Fuck off.

>>4958121
>dumb
No mate, go read Aquinas and Augustine

>>4958130
Please take your Jew god and go starve in the desert

>>4958130

>causality is absolute
>except for God, because I say so

Aquinas and Augustine are not nearly as impressive as you people think they are. Most of the vital stuff they 'demonstrate' are based on assertions and assumptions

>>4958135
>>4958130
WOAH RELIGIOUS FIGHTTTTT!!!!!!!
YEAH YOU SHOW HIM YOUR RAINBOW BODY
YEAH MAKE HIM SEE THE LOGOS DAWWWGGGG

>>4955956
http://youtu.be/lAtUPfF1R_s?t=2m

>>4958130
*clutches crucifix*

>>4958148
It's such a nice experience listening to Zizek's voice. Thanks, really like the video.

>>4956860
.which form a school of thought known as dharma (also a Hindu term) or dhamma

Aha anon, these terms are not names given to the meaning specifically . They are actual words used in Sanskrit .They are a part of a language, not made up words given to the religion

You seem confused but they are just words a part of a language not neccesarily names given to the subject

You should look into Hindustani history for even better understanding of Indian language and philosophies

ITT: Westerners talk about Eastern doctrines which theyre very bad at doing

Why is it so hard for a Westerner to do this, i dont understand

Just look at this >>4958068

>>4956120

There are different canons and texts are added to the canons too in some traditions. It's not like the Bible where you can sit down and read it, only a monk or a very serious student would have the time to read all that let alone understand it.

I read the Dhammapada for the first time yesterday, the translation by Wallice Glenn. Its an easy, short read and gives a very broad view into the world of buddism. You can probably find a copy at your local library.

>>4958067

haha, you are so far off. the samyutta nikaya preserved in pali in the theravada tradition and the samyukta-agama in chinese translation is the closest thing anyone will ever get to the buddha's original teaching.

do more research.

>>4957749

It worked for me, kept that feeling of intrigue and curiosity alive

>>4958081
how could the original teachings be closer to movements that arose hundreds of years later rather than what's contained in the pali canon - specifically the samyutta nikaya - which is so obviously the earliest strain of buddhist writings? hurr durr

i have been researching buddhism for years and it wasn't until the past two years that i arrived at my conclusion that the samyutta-nikaya contains the original teaching. it has nothing to do with political motives, it's pure hardcore radical buddhism in those texts.

>I like some of your points like the line visualizing Buddha as a detached alien, as it seems more likely considering how the Pali texts portray him.

i regard this point as fact. buddhism was not just a philosophical movement but a yogic sect among others. to gain followers, the buddha must have had immense charisma, not just in a general way but from the intensity of his practice and lifestyle. to give an example you're probably familiar with, it is said that the buddha approached a group of monks from other sects who were talking amongst themselves and they all shut up in his presence. this indicates a high degree of personal development in the buddha such that it impacts others sensitive to such things. the way they all shut up suggests they intuitively recognized him as their spiritual superior and realized their foolishness in babbling like monkeys, as this silent alien buddha slithered up to them.

anyway, you're so wrong. how could original buddhism be anything like dzogchen? lel. the original buddhist teaching is contained in the samyutta-nikaya, repeated ad nauseam a billion times in different ways. it's a rather simple but potent message: disidentify with the five aggregates, uproot craving. it's so stark and simple and repeated with such emphasis that to NOT conclude that this is what the buddha taught is simply grasping at your mahayana straws and not wanting to accept the truth.

let's face it, a lot of later buddhist developments are much more lenient than the austere yogic path detailed in the pali canon. in mahayana you can play around for years with fancy ideas like dzogchen. if you follow the samyutta-nikaya, though, you have to make yourself like a tree uprooted and burned to ashes, subject to no more arising. it's preddy intense.

>>4958081
Choong Mun-keat (Wei-keat)
The Fundamental Teachings
of Early Buddhism
A comparative study based on the Sutranga
portion of the Pali Sarpyutta-Nikaya
and the Chinese Samyuktagama
>read this shit
this book compares the pali and chinese to determine the teachings of early buddhism. the differences are so minor, so insignificant, that it will prove to you that the pali canon, despite being called "sectarian", is still the closest thing to what the buddha taught and in my opinion is like 99% buddha-word.

the differences are so minor between the sects........ those early schisms were over retarded little issues, those uppity monks causing such a big fuss over nothing, it's not even worth discussing. the original teaching is preserved in the samyutta nikaya, in the nidana vagga, khanda vagga, salayatana vagga, and mahavagga [im on the fence about the sagathavagga].

to look elsewhere for buddha's teachings - to look to mahayana sutras and so on - is sheer foolishness. you might LIKE those teachings, but they're not original buddhism or what historical buddha taught.

>>4959041
...

Are you the same person who made this?

>>/lit/thread/S4666124

>mfw a 'life is suffering' pleb refuses a cup of wine near me

>>4957796
Contrary to the Western perception of the Buddhist (an extension of the noble savage, really) there are more than a few monks that just don't give a shit: whether it's because their family decided they'd be monks and they decided they hated it but have no escape, or they chose to enter monastic life but decided they hate it, plenty of monks are just there for nothing else to do or for money. I know, I know, >b-b-but muh noble savages, but running temples can be a racket. This is the norm in California, for example, and it's one of the reasons why Falun Gong is gaining traction both in the States and in Asia.

>>4957857
So /pol/ is in Oz now eh? Sad.

>>4957880
To be fair there are places where literally everyone receives compulsory training at a certain age and after a year chooses to join the monastic community or not.

>>4957966
>buddhists literally deny spirit and gods
Don't write about characters you don't understand.

Evola's The Doctrine of Awakening

>>4959110
das it mane

>>4959167
Put your trip back on dribblekid

>>4958114
You can try to get someone to believe in the demiurge using rational or empirical means, but you must believe in jesus by faith alone, which is something you either have or you don't.

>>4957723
What are your further plans for this endeavour?

>>4956871
>tfw i used to have the street shark action figures

>>4959496
currently in the process of re-translating and re-formatting the samyutta nikaya for presentation under new name, edited down to its essentials, cutting out superfluous elements, with new commentary and other miscellanea.

just save the link. the site was made just to get it started, the work is done offline and will probably be updated in bulk at a later date, save for experiments.

no plans for official publishing - no personal belief in validity of copyright in the domain of religious texts - so it will probably remain just there on the site for free use.

to encourage the learning of pali there will be lots of romanized versions like the examples currently up. it is no mere copy and paste job as i have to go through editing it all into lower-case, as is my preference, and proof reading for errors in the source texts i currently have.

in short, it will eventually [within this year] become a very good, dependable resource for early buddhist philosophy.

my current idea is to present it all as one monolithically long page, for hypnotic effect, rather than blog-like links to this that and the other.

sort of like time-cube, except about buddhism, written by someone possessed of super sanity rather than hillbilly schizophrenia like gene ray [peace be upon him].

>>4959582
also i am quite satisfied with the site name and domain. 'altervista' means altered view, entirely appropriate for buddhizm. and it's free, so my total lack of funds are pleased with this.

>>4959582
>>4959595
i should note that in all likelihood, the site will feature the romanized pali suttas, in the order i have chosen for the new version of the nikaya, before translations, notes, commentary, etc.

so in the meantime if you're interested i recommend reading existing translations and familiarizing yourself with the pali versions at the same time. this will enable you to recognize which suttas i have included, which i have excluded, etc rather than staring at a mass of foreign language.

before plebs come out of the woodwork saying an evil white man like myself cannot alter ancient texts, i remind thee that the chinese version of the SN has its own distinct order, entirely different to the pali version, proving that each sect took the liberty of arranging things as they saw fit.

that is basically all i am doing. after years of research, i find the samyutta-nikaya of most personal interest and consider it the source text for my own views and practice, yet i dislike certain aspects of it and think a new version will be appreciated by the buddhist community.

it will be especially significant for people attracted to buddhizm as i present it, as a gravely serious philosophy and discipline, rather than a fortune cookie wisdom for daily life in maya.

though some would disagree, i am of the opinion that my vision of buddhizm revives its original spirit, and i'd like for it to remain distinct from the mass of superficial buddhism one encounters everywhere else.

it's doubtful that the site will involve any self-promotion, other than the peculiarities of my commentary, as i prefer the reclusive life and am not seeking fame or recognition.

>>4959690
How do you live, personally? How does your thought influence your way of life?

>>4959702
nibbāna is the goal. in this life. no more rebirth.

i live in a detached way. of course, it is a gradual process so there are lapses into reactive emotions, desires, etc.

generally speaking, i make life choices in a desireless state of mind. the first sutta [upādānasuttaṃ] quoted on my site deals with this. pursuing pleasures in this that and the other leads to craving, clinging, becoming... keeps the cycle in motion; the opposite way leads to cessation of craving, clinging, becoming... to nibbāna.

>>4958024
Boomers will use anything to justify their greed and entitlement, the new age perversion of Buddhism on the left, Judeo-Christianity on the right.

They pick religions based on wither or not it meshes with their lifestyle as opposed to what their conscience dictates(because they have none.), what their have been persuades to believe by argument, or what has revealed itself by some private revelation.

>>4959765
So what do you do all day?

>>4959777
read books related to buddhizm, work on my own translations and commentaries, sit in chairs thinking, meditate, spend time with family and pets, go for walks or bicycle rides.

what i don't do every day would be a much bigger list. this simple, solitary life is most conducive to the goal.

the buddha said, paṭisallāṇe, bhikkhave, yogam·āpajjatha. paṭisallīṇo, bhikkhave, bhikkhu yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti. [basically meaning - cultivate seclusion, solitude, as it leads to insight].

inb4 get a jobby

>>4959808

>[basically meaning - cultivate seclusion, solitude, as it leads to insight].
>inb4 get a jobby

It must take a great deal of personal mastery and discipline to pursue this, and if it's working for you then all the more power to you. But you do understand how civilization itself cannot function on this precept, right? Cessation is a sociological privilege.

due to the erroneous notion of self, people try to build their home in this ephemeral world. they strive after so many illusory things which vanish at death and, in fact, any time their consciousness disengages from that object of thought.

how many people are desperately trying to leave a legacy and name for themselves...? or who try to fill their lives with varieties of pleasures before death doom dawns?

when one meditates and sees that all phenomena including consciousness are impermanent and insubstantial [anicca & anatta] the craving ceases. the cessation of craving [tanha-nirodha] is the third arya-sacca, noble truth, and synonymous with nibbāna.

when an arahant [highest level monk - same realization level as the buddha] dies in the ordinary sense, final nibbāna is attained due to the extinction of craving.

the buddhas disappear from our world
they do not come back to help anyone

the historical buddha disappeared 2500 years ago

>>4959822
>But you do understand how civilization itself cannot function on this precept, right?

of course. buddhizm was never meant to be for the masses, only for elite monks already in their last lives. the buddha himself, when compared to someone like the prophet muhammad, lived a completely detached, apolitical, asocial life, only concerning himself with other monks and ascetics.

there are lay buddhists and then monks, and among monks there is a hierarchy of intensity. some are just beginners, others are ready to nirvanize in this life.

>>4959808
>what i don't do every day would be a much bigger list.
Which things do you particularly wilfully refrain from?

>>4957966
>since buddhists literally deny spirit and gods and typical spiritual ideas
Thank you, I really needed that laugh.

How about you actually read up on a religion before you start writing about it hmm? Hell, even that fetishistic and masturbatory VSI should do.

>>4956283
>www.accesstoinsight.org
This

Is true is theravada heavy, but I think is a great place to start.

>>4957789
You're truly an idiot.

>>4957918
Zizek much?

>>4959907
>muh precious infallible brown people

Don't underestimate how drab and institutionalised Buddhism is over there m8

>>4958087
is that really relevant? Those texts are just another teacher
telling you what to do. Do you really things there's some 'the real words of the Buddha'?

I can agree that level of obscurity in the old text is bad to certain extent, but all those monks are just there to work on their liberation, not to be academics.

>>4959885
buddhism literally denies the existence of the soul and a creator of the cosmos.

you=0
him=1

>>4959920
>Do you really things there's some 'the real words of the Buddha'?

without doubt, the samyutta-nikaya contains a great majority of the buddha's actual teaching, perhaps even actual words if he spoke pali, which seems highly likely due to the fanatical preservation of buddhists texts in said language.

the pali canon contains unique discourses evidently from a peculiarly intense individual. all signs point to that individual being the buddha.

>>4959907
nope, you're just naive about the situation in buddhist countries and how monasteries operate.

i am not.

>>4959934
⇒buddhism literally denies the existence of the soul

You might want to google the wikipedia links for "atman" and "brahman" before further embarrassing yourself with your own ignorance.

>>4959934
>buddhism literally denies the existence of the soul
you're wrong

>>4959955
and you might want to spend a few years understanding buddhist anatta philosophy.

plebs, be gone!

>>4959967
if you want to believe in your imaginary soul, try hinduism.

buddhism is for intelligent brains.

>>4959944
oh, I'm not denying that's how it works in Asia, I'm just saying you're an idiot about your dismissal of those monks, they're trying to get enlightened, not grow their ego

>>4959975
daily reminder that any pro-soul talk in a buddhist context is insidious hindu propaganda

>>4959975
please, stop embarrassing yourself, read something on the subject

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/notself2.html

>>4959980
1% of those monks are sincere. the others are just posers in robes who will leave to marry, work, and pursue other interests.

>>4959990
>http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/notself2.html

>he quotes Thanissaro Bhikkhu
top lel m8

debate is futile; i shall not stick around for the plebification of this thread any longer.

in the future when you realize that the buddha taught complete anatta - all the way - with no hidden secret self or god behind it - you will remember me and feel quite foolish.

>>4959975
⇒spend a few years understanding buddhist anatta philosophy.
You should take your own advice. Btw I'm sorry to hear that you think it takes years to learn something that could most likely be googled within 1 minute.

⇒buddhism is for intelligent brains.
Buddha was a fat spoiled rich fag. He never had any education and he literally spent years doing nothing other than sitting under a tree. I cannot imagine anything more unintelligent. Not to mention that the very concept of intelligence goes against the "anatta" philosophy you don't understand. And don't get me started on the anti-intellectualism of zen buddhism turning the philosophical "u cannot know nuthin" into "u should know nuthin because education is evil".

>>4959998
> Ad hominem
good job

>>4959944
>>4959980
It's not just in Asia. All over the world you have people genuinely committed to monastic life and people that put on a farce. It's inevitable.

>>4960022
>You should take your own advice. Btw I'm sorry to hear that you think it takes years to learn something that could most likely be googled within 1 minute.

interesting that you say that. is this your view of knowledge? just acquiring a word salad meaning of a concept? do you not dwell on it extensively, relating it to all other things? if you think you can grasp such a thing in one minute on google, you are mistaken.

as for the rest of your post, it's not worth replying to, it's just ignorant.

>>4960042
that monk knows as much about buddhism as a talk show host knows about films.

r00m r00m r00m
the mantra of the
r00m r00m r00m
the blessed chair and
r00m r00m r00m

>close your eyes
>ctrl>alt>del the brain
>start task manager
>go to processes
>locate: god.exe, self.exe, soul.exe, person.exe
>end those processes

r00m r00m r00m
the mantra of the
r00m r00m r00m
the blessed chair and
r00m r00m r00m

rastafarianizm = cannabis
native amerikan = peyote, tobacco
khristianity = mushrooms
buddhizm = opium
hinduizm = all of them. at once.

>>4960418
>buddhizm = opium

sid clicked the cupboard closed as quietly as he could. "i doubt my dad will notice two pills missing" he thought as he walked back to his room. he crushed them and poured the dust into a cup of shallow water he'd prepared beforehand. stirring them around with a red plastic spoon his eyelids drooped as he thought of the bliss to come. he could already feel it, he thought, before he'd even cooled it in the freezer. he'd read about the cold water extraction method online. sid was always smart like that, he couldn't apply himself at anything in the real world but give him a drug mixed with rat poison and he'll find a way to take it safely. creeping back into the kitchen with his shot of painkilling liver damage he opened the freezer feeling the fine flows of cool air on his face he placed the glass into a crevice in the ice and carefully closed the door. now, to kill 10 minutes or so. sid went back to his room and fired up koyaanisqatsi on the big screen.

not to be continued

>>4960451
sid started nodding in his chair. he was thinking about how despite everything people desire there's nothing better than melting inside and disappearing... and he faded away into a hypnogogic coma. he called it... nirvana.

>>4960009
Aren't you the cunt preaching reincarnation?

>>4960531

>>4960578

>>4960584

>>4960594

>>4959096
The deliberate grammatical errors and other idiosyncrasies make me believe he is.

>>4960603

>>4960578
>>4960584
>>4960594
>>4960603
Why did he have to blow that beautiful face to smithereens?

>>4960608

>>4960614
nirvana

>>4960624

>>4960022
>Buddha was a fat spoiled rich fag.

He was skinny. He was an ascetic for a while.

>He never had any education and he literally spent years doing nothing other than sitting under a tree.

he sat under the bodhi tree for a few days or weeks...not years.

>I cannot imagine anything more unintelligent.

Then you must not read your own posts.

>Not to mention that the very concept of intelligence goes against the "anatta" philosophy..the anti-intellectualism of zen buddhism turning the philosophical "u cannot know nuthin" into "u should know nuthin because education is evil".

Where does it say that?

>>4960614
wouldnt you kill yourself if you were married to courtney love?

I don't think so

ctrl+f "Dogen"
0 results
crtl+f "Nagarjuna"
0 results

Are you guys just plebs or what?

The biggest exponents of Mahayana and Zen aren't even mentioned in this 100+ reply thread?

Oh wait, apparently it's all just shitposting pictures of Kurt Cobain. Carry on then.

>>4960772

no one actually reads Nagarjuna he's too hard.

>>4959909
Zizek is the quintessential boomer.

>>4960786
>Slovenian national
>a baby boomer
Can you be this retarded?

I used to be really into Buddhism, hardcore theravada, but I just could not get past the metaphysics, such as the whole rebirth/karma beliefs, the sex negativity (really fucked up my sexual development).

That being said I enjoyed the meditation techniques and some of the philosophical views such as anatman still make a lot of sense to me. All in all, it's a mixed bag, like all religions or philosophical systems. Take what's useful for you and find your own way is my advice. For what's it's worth, look into Tantra (Buddhist or Hindu), it's a lot more life affirming and still has a lot of what makes Buddhism cool. Pic related, it's what I'm reading at the moment.

Also here's a book on Buddhist tantra by Lama Yeshe:
http://promienie.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/l_yeshe-intro2tantra.pdf

and read this dude's blog if you're interested in tantra and a tantric critique of Modern Buddhism:

http://meaningness.wordpress.com/

>>4960780
I actually read Garfield's translation, its not a very fun read I'll tell you that. It's highly technical and a lot of time is spent on solving ancient Indian philosophical issues. Emptiness is cool though.

>>4960772
This guy knows what's up. Nagarjuna is a fucking gangster.

>>4961510
Is the Garfield translation really that difficult? I read somewhere that it's the best English one out there right now. I was trying to decide between that one and the Siderits one. I read one by some Japanese dude (Nishijima?) and I really disliked it.

Hell, I'll probably just buy both Garfield and Siderits since both of those dudes are cool as hell even if their eisegesis is questionable.

>>4961530
It's a very technical translation because his goal was to introduce Nagarjuna to western philosophers.

Garfield's exegesis is straight up Gelugpa Prasangika Madhyamika in the vein of Candrakirti and Je Tsongkapa, and his commentary reflects that. He worked closely with some Tibetan Geshes in the process translation of the work. Most importantly he is also trained in Western philosophy, so really, Garfield is probably one of the best people to translate that work in a philosophical way.

I have not looked at the Siderits, though I did read his work on Buddhism as philosophy and I liked it. It may be awhile since my current interests lay elsewhere, but I'd like to take a look at it.

>>4961569
I don't know those Tibetan dudes but I think I should be fine. I spent the entire last semester reading nothing but academic articles on Nagarjuna so I should be fine haha.

Fuck it. I'll buy both. I have extra cash to burn.

>>4961578
You don't need to, really. Unless you want to become a Geshe or a Buddhist Studies major.

>>4961582
>become a Geshe or a Buddhist Studies major
Ha nope. I just really liked Nagarjuna. Readings for him are more of an aside to my regular readings.

>>4961140
>born in 1949
hurr durr

>>4961629
How can he be a boomer, which I hope you understand is a uniquely western phenomenon, if he was born in Yugoslavia?

>Western Buddhism

>>4961655
>Yugoslavia
>not western

>>4960735
>he sat under the bodhi tree for a few days or weeks...not years.

he spent a lot of time each day meditating for his entire life. this was the lifestyle of monks.

>Not to mention that the very concept of intelligence goes against the "anatta" philosophy..the anti-intellectualism of zen buddhism turning the philosophical "u cannot know nuthin" into "u should know nuthin because education is evil".

i actually kind of agree somewhat about the anti-intellectualism of zen. there are some succinct insightful essays by matsumoto shiro, a professor of pali and madhyamika buddhism in japan, where he rips zen a new asshole for this very anti-thinking attitude.

>>4960772
Kurt Cobain exposed more people to Buddhism than Dogen and Nagarjuna ever did or have since they died.

and i respect dogen and nagarjuna. interesting information: dogen introduced soy into japan as monk food. soy is not necessarily feminizing but it kills off mating instinct in males. soy is antinatalistic regarding the human species. i partake in it myself.

>>4961510
>such as the whole rebirth/karma beliefs

without rebirth, buddhism falls flat. i'm surprised this was an issue for you. very interesting. [laughs internally].

>>4961510
>Garfield

wait...what... you read harmony korine's exposition of nagarjuna [seriously, look at him] instead of the real one by david kalupahana? this shows that you are not very well read on buddhism despite whatever you say. you should know how to discern the levels that authors write on and their depth of understanding. garfield doesn't know shit. does he look like a profound altered states meditative master? kalupahana's version of the MMK based on the chinese chung-lun by kumarajiva [proven to be closer to nikaya buddhism than candrakirti's mahayana prasanapadda] is much clearer and in the spirit of nagarjuna.

>>4961530
>>4961530
those translations and commentaries suck. david j kalupahana - this is the best currently in english. it is based on kumarajiva's chung-lun [a chinese version of nagarjuna's mulamadhyamakakarikas with commentary]. most other english ones are based on chandrakirti and tibetan tradition.

I know this is primarily for Buddhism discussion but I don't think a separate thread is necessary so I'll ask here.

What should I start with for Nyaya stuff? I'm mostly interested in their epistemology but a foundational text is welcome.* What little exposure I had to it seemed wacky yet interesting.

*I tried googling Nyaya-sutra but I came up with almost nothing for some reason in terms of printed stuff. The only result of amazon gives little information on it.

>>4961582
>>4961586

nagarjuna wrote to liberate, not to give you some one up in your college class, you fucking pleb scum. from the depths of the akasa-dhatu nagarjuna's eyebrows would ruffle knowing some plebs in 2014 are reading his works so casually. nagarjuna's verses are to be memorized in sanskrit and repeated repeatedly in your mind, dwelling on the significance. there is a real reason that nagarjuna was treated as the second buddha. he writes from a very high level, often subtly mocking in a truly kubrickian way those of lesser insight.

>tathagato yat svabhaavas tat svabhaavam idam jagat / tathagato nihsvabhaavo nihsvabhaavam idam jagat

one of you buddhist studies in college guys, without googling it, what is that verse from and what does it mean?

>>4961923
>You either read Nagarjuna for soteriological purposes or you don't read him at all
Academic interest is prohibited?

>>4961932
nagarjuna had a wonderful persona

>>4961949

but kurt, you have so much to live for, the multimillion dollar lolapalooza tour, your wife and child, future music and fun with krist and mocking foo fighters...!

>>4961510
>the sex negativity (really fucked up my sexual development).
"fucked up" as in made you concious of the consequences of sex?

Daily reminder that Cobain worshipped Burroughs so much that it drove him to heroin and even made him regret he wasn't a homosexual.

>>4962717
Kurt Cobain did heroin because he had crippling, chronic stomache pain.

>>4962717
>wasn't a homosexual
>>4962727
>Kurt Cobain did heroin because he had crippling, chronic stomache pain.

it's like you guys want to be lied to or something.

>>4962739
>HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

There, you got a reply. You did it buddy, you fuckin' did it.

>>4961510
>the sex negativity (really fucked up my sexual development).

b-b-but buddha, how can i strive for nirvana when i want to work on my "sexual development" and have a child?

GTFO out of this thread you pro-natal filthy pleb scum. you walked down the wrong street if you ended up involved with buddhism. you're clearly an idiot.

>>4962745
kurt is well known to have been at least "bi", and courtney love herself at one point denied that "bi" exists, that one is either straight or gay and that "bi" claimers are actually gay. she called her own sperm donor a faggot.

also rape me was written in 91 and he cried during the first performances of it. he was literally raped, and later changed the story to make it appear to be about "invasion of privacy" by reporters. bullshit! kurt was a little, feminine male, who was raped. it made him shameful, so he impregnated a very manly female [c love] to convince himself he wasn't gay.

dissatisfied with traditional masculine role married life, he killed himself.

>>4962752
also anyone who thinks the ONLY reason kurt used heroin was "muh stomach probs" is a moron of the highest degree.

kurt himself laughed at you when he was questioned about that and added "well, that's not the only reason...".

newsflash: kurt cobain... LIKED TO GET HIGH

>>4961510
>life affirming

you mean... samsaara affirming, right pleb?

>>4961510
>Take what's useful for you and find your own way is my advice. For what's it's worth, look into Tantra (Buddhist or Hindu), it's a lot more life affirming and still has a lot of what makes Buddhism cool.
These really is textbook white kid ideology shopping. This is the type of mentality that makes Western people with a sincere interest in Buddhism look bad.

>hey guys i found like a buddhism where i can still smoke hella weed get on this

>>4962791
reminds me of a brian ruhe video where he's like "everyone these days says go for what FEELS best and he's like LOL what about truth? what about yknow history and what the buddha actually taught? not just what you FEEl lmfao"

>>4961895
>>4961907
Kalupahana is ok, but his point of view is strictly Theravadin. If you want a Mahayana exegesis based on the North Indian tradition in the vein of Candrakirti et al, you should read a different translation. Also, Kumarajiva's translation of Nagarjuna is not perfect, it reflects Chinese madhyamika proclivities and thus is not the ideal source text. You clearly have an agenda (an orthodox Theravadin one).

>>4961923
I enjoyed reading Nagarjuna and I got a lot from it in my practice, I was talking about all the commentary literature, not the MMK itself.

>>4962662
>>4962746
It made me look at sexuality through an incredibly negative lens and made me miss out on an important and healthy human activity. Just because I'm interested in Buddhism and like learning about it, does not mean I have to accept all of the doctrines (which are highly varied) and orthodoxy at face value. Anyways, not all Buddhism is the same, and not all Buddhism is sex negative. There are sex positive Buddhists, if anyone is interested, look into the poetry of Ikkyu Sojun and the Tibetan Poet Gendun Chopel's work "Tibetan arts of love".

Here's what Je Tsongkapa, founder of the Gelugpa has to say about it:

"A female companion is the basis of accomplishment of liberation."

Also you sound like one of them anti-natalists, so you clearly have an axe to grind there as well. I'm starting to think I'm responding to the same person here.

>>4962791
There is nothing wrong with rejecting elements of a particular philosophy or worldview if it does not agree with your own personal worldview, while at the same time learning and taking other elements from it. Your caricature of all people who do this as white kid shopping is misplaced. Buddhism has always been a highly fluid religion, changing as it went into Tibet, China and Japan. As I mentioned above, tantric Buddhism can be pretty radically different to traditional orthodox Buddhism. That being said I don't consider myself a Buddhist anymore, so you can relax in the knowledge that your reputation won't be tainted by one more heterodox Buddhist.

>>4959844
>meditate
>see all phenomena including consciousness is impermament and insubstantial
>crave ice cream
>eat ice cream

I'm doing something wrong pls help

>>4963410
nah you're not, just eat your ice cream, its no big deal, jesus christ

>>4963410
right now, there is a buddhist that is freaking out because he ate some ice cream

Buddhism, folks

>>4963423
It's not that ''I CAN'T INTO BUDDHISM WAH'', tbh, I just want to not want anything
I know it's contradictory but still it'd be good to hear opinions

>>4963436
as long as you have a human body you're going to want things, that is just a ridiculous and impossible goal

>>4963438
So pretty much all mystical teachings are bullshit?

>>4963436
Every time that you want something, just don't want it instead. That's all it takes.

>>4963440

Yes, whats the point in being human if you willingly deny yourself all pleasures related to our being?

You know how lucky we are to be able to enjoy shit through our highly complicated senses?

>>4963440
look into Tantra

>>4963446
The way I see it, if I'm doing something futile and I'm not going to enjoy it, I don't do it. But I'm too scared to kill myself so I'm looking to kill 'the self' instead.

>>4963440
kind of yes but there is a lot to be learned from them, including practices which lead to what William James called religious experiences and philosophical ways to look at the world which make us happier

But seriously, why would you want to repress such important natural human desires? To end suffering? Bitch, there will always be suffering as long as you're alive, deal with it. The renunciatory path will fuck you up.

>>4963460
What about Schopenhauer? Is his Denial of the Will also bullshit?

>>4963152
>Also you sound like one of them anti-natalists, so you clearly have an axe to grind there as well. I'm starting to think I'm responding to the same person here.

i am an anti-natalist before i am a buddhist, so yes. also i am not asexual but do not enjoy physical intimacy with others and find orgasms painful and exhausting. also i do not find vagina very appealing, so i do not get involved in relationships.

>>4963410
ice cream is kharmikally neutral - you won't get dragged into a weird dream reality from enjoying some ice cream.

it's those desires which lead to involvement kharma with others that are to be snuffed out. but perhaps my misanthropy is informing my buddhizm? cus i hate humans and don't even like monks.

actually i love buddhizm - the impersonal buddhizm of books - but despite monks.

>>4963410
Zizek had something interesting to say about this.

He said that, in the moment of desire, the desired object is realer than the absolute truth of it.

The example he used was a chaste man trying to resist having sex with a woman. To resist, he would probably think of how she is just a deterministic machine, how she has shit inside her (and a skeleton), and how eventually she will die and burn away.

But that's not the REAL real, is it? The sensations that the man could get by fucking her are realer than the distant morbid truths about her.

That's why its bullshit when people (with the best intentions) try to diminish your suffering by mentioning that, on a cosmic scale, it's insignificant. To you, it's incredibly significant, and that's what matters.

So, while the ice-cream is, ultimately, only an illusory thing of this world, the pleasure that you can get by eating it is real

Let's pretend the Buddha actually posted on /lit/.

He presents his basic thesis:

The khandas [five aggregates: form, feeling, perception, volition, consciousness] = dukkha, anicca, anatta [suffering, impermanent, insubstantial], therefore, one should become disillusioned [nibbida] by the khandas to attain total detachment [viraaga] and liberation.

How would you rip Buddha's new asshole based on this? The above is repeated innumerable times in the earliest teachings. The basic thesis is that what makes up the totality of our being is ultimately groundless, empty, with nothing therein permanent or on which or in which we can 'build a home' forever, therefore to escape the suffering inherent in the aggregates we must bring about a psychological detachment from them, removing the concept of self from them entirely, seeing "i am not this, this is not mine, this is not my self".

>>4963730
yad aniccam tam dukkham, yam
dukkham tad anatta. yad anatta tam netam mama neso ham asmi na meso attati

that which is impermanent is suffering, that which is suffering is not-self, that which is not-self is not mine, not what i am, not my self.

so the buddha is saying - identification/attachment to/with any of the five aggregates = suffering. detachment/nonid with the 5 = no suffering.

>>4963730
>The khandas [five aggregates: form, feeling, perception, volition, consciousness] = dukkha, anicca, anatta [suffering, impermanent, insubstantial], therefore, one should become disillusioned [nibbida] by the khandas to attain total detachment [viraaga] and liberation.

How's that different than slipping into a coma or death? That's the only logical way to achieve a complete detachment from the khandas.

>>4963778
well, perhaps a deep meditative state could be likened to a coma, but not death in the buddhist context, which is merely a transition from life to life.

also i think the detachment being spoken of is not the separation of one thing from another [which would imply a self] but a disidentification from them. to see [etc] without positing a self as subject of seeing.

and in the buddhist conception, the death of a buddha or arahant is the 'eternal death' of nirvana, where rebirth ceases due to detachment from the khandas.

>>4963479
I don't think Schopenhauer managed to prove that the thing in itself really is Will. I think his project of trying to go beyond Kant is a failure. Not that I don't enjoy his work, but there you have it. Also, like Nietzsche, I find the whole denial of the Will self defeating and sad. He's got really cool aesthetic theories though.

Did Buddha get high?

>>4964980
no, but aghoris and other Indian ascetics do smoke bud, generally considered part of the left hand path tantric tradition over there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEpJdHS1pV0

check it out

>>4965023
Aghoris are the realest, they'd probably humble Diogenes.

>>4965081
Now that I think about it they are like mystic Cynics, though the Cynics would probably laugh at their religious beliefs as much as they laughed at Plato's

>>4967166
Not sure, Diogenes believed in the gods and according to some sources believed he was on a mission from the gods. He'd also like the Aghori idea that all of nature is divine and that there is no actual taboo on any of society's perceived vices.

He might mock their more ritualistically inclined stuff, but all in all I'd think they'd get along well. Zeno of Citium, the founder of Stoicism who was basically educated as a Cynic, supposedly wrote a Republic of his own condoning incest and cannibalism.

>>4962752
>>4962762

>/mu/ invades /lit/

>>4961887
except he wasnt a buddhist?