/lit/ - Literature

>Inb4 evolakid ruins it.

>>4816891

I forgot to add

"If you are someone like EvolaKid who masks your National Socialism with Traditionalism, please realize that Julius Evola despised National Socialism."

What does /reaction/ think about Moldbug and the other Neo-reactionaries?

>>4816898
Seriously, it's bananas. Evola had to go through court hearing just to prove how pleb he saw Hitler and Musso to be.

What an asinine coupling. De Maistre is to Guénon what Hitler is to Obama. "After all, they're both socialists!"

>>4816911
there's a lot more similarity between hitler and obama than that

>>4816907
Any "reactionary" that supports transhumanism the way some of these people do is fucked. They believe in monarchy and "progress", they don't believe in the sanctity of humanity itself.

>>4816917
pls don't start this shitstorm

>tfw National Socialist who likes many Jews, isn't racist, and hates torture, terror, and genocide

Sometimes I think I'm just in it for the clothes.

>>4816924
This,Most of the Neo-reactionary are Libertarians who have finally noticed that their ideology isn't going to work with democracy.

>>4816909
>Evola had to go through court hearing just to prove how pleb he saw Hitler and Musso to be.

The National Socialist party had the right idea in terms of Hierarchy, but they were still a band of plebians who were created merely as a reaction to Bolshevism.

>>4816928

>likes Jews and isn't racist

It depends on what you mean by liking Jews.

>>4816928
I can somewhat relate, though I'm racist. I'm just less neo-/pol/ racist where they think chinks are superheroes, niggers are shit, and white people are almost as good as chinks.
I think chinese got the baby dick.

>>4816931
>red-pill
stopped reading there

>>4816898
IMPLYING I'M A NATIONAL SOCIALIST

>>4816907


im generally on board with the idea of neo-reaction, but i also think people like moldbug and nick land are fairly typical of autistic thinkers. which is to say, even though they are on the right track, they can be 'in the way of the way', and should not be read uncritically (moldbug because hes a fairly shameless philosemite, and land because he has a disturbing tendency to advocate atomization, social discohesion, and thede disloyalty).

>>4816954
>implying Monarchy wasn't initially as "democratic" as Fascism
Have you ever even smelled a person that thought about the word "history"?

>>4816961
>>implying Monarchy wasn't initially as "democratic" as Fascism

I don't know what you're getting at heard. I'm not a big fan of democracy

>>4816970
Kings rose by the combination of their and their people's will. When the King remained in power despite his people's will, that's when monarchy fell. True Kings aren't always born with titles.

Is there any literature on the idea of maintaining openness/glasnost and looseness to society, while also retaining the old styles of hierarchy and statism?

Like a lot of people, I think, I've been exposed to a bunch of these ideas haphazardly, so it's difficult not to sound like a retard in putting them together. But my biggest social values tend to be hierarchy, order, social decency/morality, but also openness to discourse and critique, and a wide latitude for private life to develop. My ideal society is something like a fusion of classical liberal ideas of meritocracy + absolute respect for free discourse + encouraging critique of institutions (e.g. Foucault), but also + fascist hierarchy. More people-joining-with-the-state totalitarianism than state-shoving-its-cock-into-private-life totalitarianism.

I can't stand censorship OR the idea of a truly laissez faire society.

why does fucking everyone from left to right in politics have to snub the enlightenment. Have some respect

>>4816997
Liberals and social liberals still seem to like it.

>>4816997
>why does fucking everyone from left to right in politics have to snub the enlightenment. Have some respect
the enlightenment was where it all when wrong

>>4817003
>Not the reformation

>>4816983


http://radishmag.wordpress.com/archive/

have fun

>>4817012
They finally have a new article out.

>>4816954

>believes in left vs right

get a load of this pleb

>>4817009

this

but ideas like this often have convergent evolution, which is to say, they are products of the same sort of mindset (late antiquity gnostics didint cause protestantism, but the practical effects are quite similar).

>>4817026
>>>believes in left vs right
>get a load of this pleb

>implying

>>4817009

>Not Zoroastrianism/Dualism

>tfw no future
How do you deal modernity /radtradit/?

>>4817029
>>>>believes in left vs right
>>get a load of this pleb
>>implying

Nice argument fallacy.

>>4817071
>>>>>believes in left vs right
>>>get a load of this pleb
>>>implying
>Nice argument fallacy.

you were already strawmaning me

>>4817058

>How do you deal modernity /radtradit/?
Gif related.

>>4817074
>you were already strawmaning me

You posted a left/right picture you moron, it just proves you don't even know the definition of argumentative fallacies.

You can't even write a proper sentence.

>>4817058


ride the tiger and carry the torch for the new era, whether it be for more humans, or our children creations. and secretly fantasize about how we can save things and escape the spiral of history

I know next to nothing on counter-enlightenment thought.

Where should I start reading on the subject?
What were some of the key arguments they had?

>>4817079
>>you were already strawmaning me
>You posted a left/right picture you moron
nice ad hominem fallacy.
That picture wasn't a complete and in depth explation of my political ideology.

> it just proves you don't even know the definition of argumentative fallacies.
no YOU don't know the definition of argumentative fallacies.


>You can't even write a proper sentence.
nice ad hom

>>4817089
list of blogs here
http://pastebin.com/pMkAGF0P

>>4817094
>>4817079

>>4817089
>Where should I start reading on the subject?

Decline of the West.

>What were some of the key arguments they had?

Inequality, hierarchy and moral authority is good. The West's entire trajectory for the past two centuries since the Masonic Revolt of 1789 has been disastrous. Traditionalists tend to identify with traditional modes of European government, such as mediated Monarchies or Aristocratic Republics.

>>4817101

>giant list of shit-tier blogs by neck beards

the only exception is Takimag/John Derbyshire but it isn't a strictly Traditionalist blog it is Libertarian/Paleoconservative.

Again, you are a moron.

>>4817110
>Inequality, hierarchy and moral authority is good.

They never had any good reasons for any of this though

everyone itt needs to stop trolling evolakid

>>4817116
>They never had any good reasons for any of this though

I assume you are an Anarchist/Libertarian?

reminder that reactionary ideas are based on false premises

http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

>>4817117

Put your tripcode back on.

>>4817128
No, but wouldn't a libertarian be in favor of inequality? Profit motive and all.

>>4817114
The orthospere is usually ok.
http://orthosphere.org/
>>4817117
I think evolakid is trolling us.

>>4817117
hi EvolaYid

>>4817116
>They never had any good reasons for any of this though

It's obvious when you look at history.

>>4817110


recently, the key argument of the neo-reactionaries is that instrumental advances (like technology, science, and et cetera) have been masking social decay, and cannot of course counter-act it in the end. the trilemma then is either; 1. civilization continues to break down into more complete anarcho-tyranny, 2. a miraculous reset of perennial traditions occurs before that happens (hey, theres atleast a chance), or 3. right thinking robot overlords take over while the ape creatures continue to be degenerate.

>>4817134
A libertarian is fine with inequality as long as it is a result of the free market,If the free market would somehow lead to equality they'd be fine with that too.

>>4817116


values are implicit hierarchies, being right wing is simply embracing ones capacity to judge better and worse.

>>4816907
I think their arguments are completely divorced from reality and are not worth considering in depth.

>>4817154
why do you think that?

>>4817143
I believe we should organize the technology of the world and center it somewhere still-human people live, and the technology should be dedicated to making sure people are free to act as "degenerately" as possible

>>4817130


http://blog.jim.com/tag/anti-anti-reactionary-faq

>>4817143
>instrumental advances

Mussolini's Fascism was a direct response to DaDa art, Futurism and Industrialism.

http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/T4PM/futurist-manifesto.html

picture related, it was Julius Evola's art

>>4817141
elaborate please

>>4817166
>>4817130

>lolbertarian articles

No thanks.

>>4817163


what makes you think our creatus will just go along with that, though? capital is becoming self-organizing, and its interests may not necessarily coincide with humongs, especially if we restrict ourselves to merely materialist ideologies.

ITT post >yfw antifa

>>4817200
>Mfw antifa
>Mfw neonazis

>>4817200

Julius Evola was anti-Fascist.

I want you National Socialists to get the fuck out of this thread already.

>>4817209
>mfw East "Slavs" (Tatars)

>>4817209

>dat obvious access plate on the side

>yfw putin is secretly a robot.

>>4817193
They're not libertarians
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.nl/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html

>>4817166
>Zhang Xianzhong was a 'leftist'
200 years before Marx, and he was a leftist? What makes a warlord rebellion leftist?
>Complains about 'sluts'
wah women won't have sex with me therefore they're evil
>Says that 17th century monarchies are more stable than democracies
lol what are the wars of the spanish and austrian successions
>Crime was lower in the Victorian era than the modern day
Violent crime went down by 75% since 1994 in the US, and hasn't gone up that much even with the recession.

This blog has such a fundamental misunderstanding of history that it's ridiculous you'd cite him for your arguments.

>>4817214
Maybe the Neo reactionaries are right about our coming robotic overlords.

>At one point, il Duce or one of his underlings asked Evola why he hadn't joined the Fascist Party proper. Evola replied that the continued existence of the party proved the failure of fascism. After all, if the state had become all and absorbed all lesser allegiances, how could there be such a thing as a “party,” which, as the word indicates, represents a partial or special interest?

>A key difference between Evola's Traditionalism and Italian Fascism is Evols'a rejection of nationalism, which he viewed as a conception of the modern West and not of a Traditional hierarchical social arrangement.

>Evola called Italy's fascist movement a "laughable revolution," based on empty sentiment and materialistic concerns. He opposed the futurism that Italian fascism was aligned with, along with the "plebeian" nature of the movement.

>Julius Evola: Fascism Viewed from the Right

>http://www.arktos.com/julius-evola-fascism-viewed-from-the-right.html

>>4817214
>secretly

>>4817219
>wah women won't have sex with me therefore they're evil

American Blacks have a 75% wedlock rate and we all know the social issues their communities face. Almost all of their intellectuals admit this is a huge fucking problem, and that creating and promoting stable families is a massive priority.

Wedlock rate rising among whites.. delinquency rate rising.. oh, but for them it's progress and liberation. Families are repressive, maaan!

>>4817219
i wasn't aware that 1994 was the victorian era, thanks for informing me

>>4817231
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/

>>4817222
>Mussolini once said that Party membership did not bestow intelligence. He also ought to have pointed out that intelligence, in itself, has nothing to do with the kind of spiritual education which Fascism sought to cultivate. Instead of starting from scratch, of ignoring fame and big names, instead of subjecting each intellectual candidate to a radical reassessment, Fascism, with provincial and bourgeois ambition, chose to welcome all the 'cultural representatives' of the bourgeoisie, as long as they could give proof of their formal (and irrelevant) adherence to the regime. This led to pathetic cases such as that of the Accademia d'Italia, the members of which were largely agnostic or anti-Fascist in their private beliefs. But the same is also true of many other men who were assigned prominent roles within the Fascist cultural establishment and media. It is not surprising, therefore, to find many of these gentlemen now donning a new uniform in democratic, anti-Fascist Italy.

>>4817222
everything I read about this guy makes me think he's not worth reading, but the historical context he was around for is genuinely interesting

want to begin studying Italian fascism in a non-sensationalist way so bad

>>4817222

So what was Evola's preferred political arrangement for his hierarchical system?
A Polis? Tribalism? Folkism?

>>4817258
Payne - A History of Fascism

>>4817263
The Organic state
http://www.moreright.net/julius-evola-on-totalitarianism-and-the-organic-state/

http://www.moreright.net/julius-evola-on-equality-personality-freedom-hierarchy/

>>4817219


>200 years before Marx, and he was a leftist?

if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

also given the speed of reply its obvious you have not actually read anything, especially as evidenced by your ignorant comment on crime statistics

>theft rate of bubble gum from the local convenience store is down 100% since yesterday, this proves there is no delinquent problem!

>>4817258

for Italian Fascism start off with the Futurist Manifesto

http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/T4PM/futurist-manifesto.html

>>4817269
Payne is really good and I would absolutely recommend him for anyone who needs a generic history of fascism, but he's still pathologising and historicist, and I say this as a historian. Ernst Nolte's Three Faces of Fascism is another good start.

>>4817270

Interesting, thank you.

>>4817298
No problem,Here some more of Evola
http://www.juliusevola.net/homepage.html
(Ignore the shitty web design)

>>4817182
I'm going to post some of evola's paintings next time I see a /pol/ art thread.

>>4817311

There is a thread right now

>>>/pol/29260842

I suggest you take away the name "Evola" if you plan on trolling them

>that feel when looking down on National Socialists because they are Keynesian plebs buying into the Western idea of Nationalism

>that feel when afraid to tell my National Socialist friends this

t-t-thanks Evola

>>4817322
>I suggest you take away the name "Evola" if you plan on trolling them
Holy fucking lel that is a great idea. They'll hate it until they learn who it's painted by. Do this just to spite the people who have no idea about art but say that their favorite art is "Traditional" and anything they dislike is "Modern" or "Degenerate".

>>4817336

Good job Anon, they are pissed off.

>they keep denying that Adolf Hitler loved Austin Osman Spare

>>4816931
where is the traditionalism quote from? sounds interesting

>>4817379

Joseph de Maistre.

>>4817379
From De Maistre -Reflections on the French revolution if I'm not mistaken.

>>4816931
>>4817379
What is interesting is that the position defended by Joseph de Maistre them, of relativism against the liberal universalism of the Enlightenment nowadays is more associated with the left-wing than with the right.

>>4817401
>nowadays is more associated with the left-wing than with the right.

Interesting thought Anon, I have to think more about that.

What does /trad/ think about Chesterton?
>The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful.

>>4817413

>Chesterton writes Jews were "capitalists of their age"

Christian apologetics are good at being anti-Jewish (compared to National Socialists).

>>4817413
so hes saying that we need religion not only to keep vice in check, but also virtue? An interesting position, since most religions tend to try to optimize personal virtue.
Or is he saying that individual virtues are harmful if you do not have the whole suite of them? In that case it reminds me of aristotles view of the good life

>>4817404


its largely because many post-structuralists tried to repudiate modernist modes of thought while retaining modernist morality.

>>4817401
>>4817404
There is a book by Richard Wolin, called The Seduction of Unreason, that claims that the post-war Radical Left (french post-structuralism
and the Frankfurt School) was influenced by Counter-Enlightment scholars like De Maistre.

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i7705.html

>>4817413
I like his distributism.

>>4817429
>Radical Left

I find that most of the "Radical Left" such as Slavoj Žižek are secretly just Counter-Enlightenment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpdYUck9ppM

>>4817448
The revolutionary left is against any kind of state power that isn't theirs. If such power is based on traditional political structures, they use Enlightenment ideology to fight it, but if the power structure is based on Enlightenment ideology itself, they are going to dig into Counter-Enlightenment to fight it.

Good night,/trad/
Thanks for a reactionary thread without shit posting about the vile and horrible Hebrew.

>>4817413
A master of witty quotes at the very least
>The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.

>>4817473
>without shit posting about the vile and horrible Hebrew.

I dislike Jews but by god, National Socialists can't even write a proper sentence why they are against them.

Is /lit/ getting stupider or have I just not been paying attention?

>>4817488
I would dislike Jews if i lived in the 1920s and all i knew about Jews was that they were a bunch of materialistic capitalists or bolshevists. But nowadays, after Israel, i would change my mind. What the Jews have done in Israel is to build a state based on blood and soil, supported by a militaristic ideology. We can't say anymore that the Jew is a cowardly weakling, he has proved himself.

Of course, this is only true for Israeli Jews, the Jew in the Diaspora is still shit. That's why they hate Israel.

>>4817488
Reaction seems to always have an uncomfortable relationship with Judaism. It sees cosmopolitan New York Jews and pins the problems of progressiveness on them. At the same time, Orthodox Jews have the rigid sense of tradition that Reaction admires (green with envy perhaps). put them together and it sees a deliberate attempt to destroy all non-jewish culture.

>>4817511
>But nowadays, after Israel, i would change my mind.

But what about Palestine?

>>4817511
Isreal is a terrible apartheid state without a shred of dignity. hard to look up to really

>>4817517
Vae Victis.

>>4817509
We get a regular flow of /pol/ and /r9k/ in here.
I like to think the good /lit/erates are just reading and not really discouraged.

>>4817561
>I like to think the good /lit/erates are just reading and not really discouraged.

What are you talking about?

I have been on /lit/ ever since it was created and I am a Traditionalist.

>>4817561
Butterfly, your inane posts are half of why I asked.

>>4817535

>woe to the vanquished (ones)

It isn't their country in the first place.

>>4817567
Probably people like evolakid

>>4817571
evolakid is a leading contributer of content on this board and the disrespect towards him in this thread is unacceptable

>>4817571
>Probably people like evolakid

He isn't a Traditionalist nor does he even know anything about Julius Evola.

>>4817577

>evolakid is a leading contributer of content on this board and the disrespect towards him in this thread is unacceptable

Put your tripcode back on.

>>4817577
top hue

>>4817568
owned so hard i cringed

>>4817568

Ouch!

>>4817577
evolakid is a leading contributer of content on this board

>>4817608
>evolakid is a leading contributer of content on this board

You are either evolakid or a troll, in which case you successfully made me mad.

>>4817568

>>4817568

>>4817786
Checking_junk.gif?

>>4817568
[x] Infinite Told
[x] Nineteen Eighty-Told
[x] Brave New Told
[x] Steppentold
[x] Das Kapitold
[x] Told of the Rings
[x] Mein Told
[x] Told Quixote
[x] A Song of Told and Fire
[x] Told Spoke Zarathustra
[x] The Sorrows of Told Werther
[x] One Hundred Years of Told
[x] The Told of Disquiet
[x] Told and Peace
[x] Told from the Underground
[x] The Brothers Told
[x] Told and Punishment
[x] The Told and Margarita
[x] Told Souls
[x] The Told and the Fury
[x] The Catcher in the Told
[x] For Whom the Bell Tolds

>>4818173
>that list of books
only on 4chan

>>4818185
There's no need to be upset

: ^ )

>Counter-Enlightenment / Traditionalism thread
>ctrl+f "catholic"
>0 results
Every time bro. Why are there so many "Counter-Enlightenment" people who don't read Catholic theology and philosophy when they were the first to counter the "Enlightenment"? Why are there so many people who call themselves Traditionalists who don't know about Catholicism when it's the pillar of Western Tradition?

>>4818185
It's stolen from reddit

>>4818265
>pillar of western tradition
>not painting yourself blue, killing your neighbor, then stealing and fucking his sheep
do you even anglosphere?

>>4817285
Isn't the association between Fascism and Futurism a bit of a bad move on the part of d'Annuzio ? I heard he regretted it later. I mean, everyone in this thread is acting like futurism is the quintessential fascist art movement, when in reliaty what they had in common was a form of radicality.

>>4817511
>the Jew in the Diaspora is still shit. That's why they hate Israel.

In case the beginning of your post hadn't given it away already, this proves your don't know what you are talking about.

>>4817570
That means nothing. A country belongs to whoever controls it. This is something that hasn't changed since the "Masonic" (as they say) revolution.

>>4818265
Catholicism isn't counter-enlightenment, the enlightenment is its natural successor. The reformation and the enlightenment are inevitable consequences of monotheism. The vile and disgusting practice of humanism that taken over is based on a misreading of Genesis - when god made man in his image. This overly anthropomorphic view of God in the Western tradition, perpetuated by a greedy catholic church which resulted in the great schism (which no one fucking talks about anymore)
has led to all of this.

Arguably, modernity is just an extreme example of platonic idealism gone wrong. By placing 'whatness' above 'thatness,' and opening up the entire pandora'x box of object relations, Plato sent us on this downwards spiral.

History is a christian invention, don't you see why Evola turned to Hinduism.

Look at the early caste system, or early model of the hindu family. Look at the freedom of sexual expression to see why sexuality doesn't represent degeneracy but this highest spiritual calling.

Understand that the entire western trajectory Plato --> Jesus --->Reformation/Enlightenment --->Monolithic Capitalist Globalism

has been leading upto the thinly veiled logical positivism of the day.

Abstract thinking is being dismantled and it is our greatest asset. I am anti-humanist, but I understand that the greatest gift we ever received was the ability to question our own being, and we fucked it up.

The call of enowning is the essential swaying of the truth of be-ing in the shape of the last god.

What we can learn from esoteric christian dogma and even the Kabbalah is a method of escaping LINEAR history and samsara. We only need to hear the call of the truth of being, i.e the unhiddenness of beings in the openness of the world.

And yes, EvolaKid brings disgrace to Evola's name.

Should I trip or not?

>>4818265
Its natural actually. Muricans and northern euros are exposed too much to protestants and co.
Also most of the traditionalists first dwell into foreign religion, then come back to appreciating christianity.

>>4817429
Well honestly I can see traditionalism and the Frankfurt school as opposite versions of platonism, while the analitical school is in a whole other category.

>>4818468
oh you've been tripping.

>>4817110
This is nearly a hundred years old, and written before WWII. Anything more recent to supplement it with?

>>4818932
No, just Goethe.

>>4818938
You want to tell me that no other text written after 1922 can provide me with a proper introduction to reactionary\traditionalist views?

>>4818943
Decline is pretty mainstream and not part of traditionalism. Most traditionalist authors have it as their waking point.

>>4818943
You could try the New right.

>>4818468
>Catholicism isn't counter-enlightenment, the enlightenment is its natural successor.

No, it's mainly just a response to Catholicism's abuses of control. The growth of the sciences would naturally need to the rationalization of nature, yes, but the anti-Catholicism and talk of liberation come from Catholic abuses, the reformation, and a form of government not restricted to Catholicism.

Guenon is probably one of the few people that understood pre-modern philosophy. I'm a classics major myself and the latest generation is only interested in the 'historical x' (where x stands for some classical writer or figure) which is a totally absurd projection. The classics died during the mid 20th century. Now, the old pagans had a very excellent philosophical perspective which solves many post-Cartesian problems in modern though which is sadly ignored by modernity's obssession with a 'total progress' or 'total evolution'. The old scholastics were not nearly as useless as the early moderns portrayed then to be, yet the Catholic Church has sadly not remained faithful to its medieval intellectual tradition in a pathetic attempt to appease modern thought. But, I suppose it's always been this way.

>>4818468

You are babbling.

>>4818468
>Should I trip or not?
only until evolakid leaves

>>4818173
a lot of these are stupidly lazy

>>4817377
>Adolf Hitler loved Austin Osman Spare

wait seriously

>>4817465
>If such power is based on traditional political structures, they use Enlightenment ideology to fight it, but if the power structure is based on Enlightenment ideology itself, they are going to dig into Counter-Enlightenment to fight it.

"Enlightenment ideology" comprises several different ideas so this isn't exactly hypocritical.

did you guys know hitler only had one testicle

>>4818468


i would qualify that by saying the enlightenment was the natural successor of the nominalist theologians who attacked the aquinian synthesis, and from partisans reacting against other partisans who identified as catholic ('the unintended reformation' and 'theological origins of modernity' articulate these similar views).

thomism (and eastern orthodoxy) is basically christianity accelerated past itself.

>>4820653


guenon is probably the most under appreciated thinkers of the 20th century. one of the best handlers of mythological culture and history ive encountered, hes on another level compared to the likes of jung or campbell.