/lit/ - Literature

Because there are still heroes left in man.

because i have a correctly and justly ordered soul

What use is hatred? Hatred seems to only breed more hatred.

Love seems to breed more love.

I would rather be loved than hated.

Therefore the appropriate response to life is wary love.

They're not. I am. That's the problem.

All of humanity might not be good in nature but homogenous community with a strong, authoritative government it is still possible.

There is good and evil to be found inside each one of us.
The evil is just easier to notice, and more prevalent in many cases.

there are men working to create an adequate successor of men (cicada).

>>4810374
>Why aren't you philanthropic /lit/? What makes you still think mankind is evil by nature?

>>4810397
>strong, authoritative government

Why add this unnecessary bit?

>>4810411
>Why add this unnecessary bit?
it is needed for me not to become misanthropic

>>4810414
>tripfag being statist cancer

Why am I not surprised?

>>4810374
Because emotions arise from within and effect me before any one else.
It is a trick of common diction to say "I'm filled with loathing for mankind."
Really it is just "I'm filled with loathing."
Why be filled with loathing? Why carry that inside of me when the poorly natured mankind won't care, as that is their nature.

I think mankind has a tendency towards sin and violence, but that he is aware of and naturally driven towards a moral law and can do good.

>>4810421
>I think mankind has a tendency towards sin and violence, but that he is aware of and naturally driven towards a moral law and can do good.

This statement makes no sense.

One cannot have a tendency (natural drive towards) bad, and be naturally driven (have a tendency) towards good at the same time.

>>4810374
4chan

>>4810426
Yeah, realized I should have worded it better after I hit the submit button, oh well.

Whatever it is, it definitely isn't 4chan

Human beings are terrible creatures.

>>4810416
>Why am I not surprised?

Because anarchists are blind idealists?

>>4810483

How do you reconcile your belief in a bad human nature and still defend strong government

government is made up of human beings. If they are inherently shitty people, giving them power is only going to make things worse.

>>4810509
I think he is a white supremicist fascist

>>4810509
>How do you reconcile your belief in a bad human nature and still defend strong government

I didn't say all human nature is bad.

>government is made up of human beings. If they are inherently shitty people, giving them power is only going to make things worse.

A strong government usually keeps people in line. The police tend to stop more crime than they commit. When was the last time a group of cops robbed a bank?

>>4810516
>say I support a strong government
>evil/racist/nazi/fascist

>>4810526
Well what the fuck is a homogenious community with authoritative govt. If not fascism? And you're no more evil than I. Im liberal and I would let the govt gas you if it was up to me

>>4810374
myself

>>4810386
Now there's a good argument.

>>4810544
>Well what the fuck is a homogenious community with authoritative govt. If not fascism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_%28insult%29

Either way racial homogeneity and authority doesn't make a government fascist.

>Im liberal and I would let the govt gas you if it was up to me
>2edgy4me

>>4810561
Then what is it?

>>4810569
racial homogeneity and authoritative aren't enough for a complete ideology only characteristics of many.

>>4810578
What is your particular ideology?

>>4810561
>Either way racial homogeneity and authority doesn't make a government fascist.

And how do you achieve racial homogeneity? You either have to actively get rid of undesirable ethnicities or stop them from entering based on their skin colour alone. It's concomitant to a high degree of nationalism.

>>4810581

Fascism

>>4810582
>And how do you achieve racial homogeneity?
>You either have to actively get rid of undesirable ethnicities or stop them from entering based on their skin colour alone. It's concomitant to a high degree of nationalism.

This is correct

>>4810581

State Capitalism

>>4810582
>And how do you achieve racial homogeneity?
>You either have to actively get rid of undesirable ethnicities or stop them from entering based on their skin colour alone. It's concomitant to a high degree of nationalism.

This is correct

>>4810609
At first you responded fascism then you edited your post and replaced it with state capitalism. Why did you do that

>>4810603
>Fascism

>>4810609
>State Capitalism

I guess you realized there wasn't a point in arguing against the guy calling you a fascist if you were a fascist to begin with?

>>4810638
>At first you responded fascism then you edited your post and replaced it with state capitalism. Why did you do that
I was replying to a thread on /pol/ and mistook this one for that

>>4810647
see above

>>4810638
He was hoping no-one would call him on his shit because instead of fostering debate he is interested in being an inflammatory shithead, hence why he used a trip and I was never racial or political with my name on when I was namefagging

Just filter his stupid ass along with the insect and the tranny, for your own sake.

>>4810652
see
>>4810649

>>4810647
>state capitalism

Oh, so you advocate more of the same? Great fucking plan. Love me some more fucking economies of scale and cartels, can't get enough.

>>4810657
>Oh, so you advocate more of the same? Great fucking plan. Love me some more fucking economies of scale and cartels, can't get enough.

Works good for China

>>4810609
>This is correct
So there you go nigga that's fascism specially if you wanna be all authoritarian about it

>>4810658
>80,000 labor incidents a year
>teeters on civil war
>total environmental devastation on a scale never before seen

We appear to have a different opinion.

>>4810662
>teeters on civil war
nigga have you ever even been to china

>>4810659
>So there you go nigga that's fascism specially if you wanna be all authoritarian about it

Authority, Nationalism, racial homogeneity are all aspects of fascism as well as many other ideologies.

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

>>4810662
>>80,000 labor incidents a year
>>teeters on civil war
>>total environmental devastation on a scale never before seen
>We appear to have a different opinion.

I didn't say China was the ideal I said state capitalism was.
State Capitalism in the US would be the ideal

>>4810667

Wait, so you're going to attempt to refute my argument with a sample size of one person? TEACH ME YOUR RHEATORIC SKILLS

>>4810670
>State Capitalism in the US would be the ideal

We have state capitalism you oaf. How do you think the military industrial complex and our state corporate nexus works? Jesus, pay attention to the news instead of living in a fucking dreamworld.

>>4810675
no, i'm just saying i've lived in china and travelled there extensively, and i never saw or heard anything that suggested civil war at all. i'm less arguing and more interested in where you've gained that impression.

>>4810677
>We have state capitalism you oaf
we have a social democracy

>How do you think the military industrial complex and our state corporate nexus works?
And when applied to the military it resulted in the greatest military the world has ever seen.

> Jesus, pay attention to the news instead of living in a fucking dreamworld.
>being this mad.
see my first response

>>4810678

There's a large intellectual sector in the united states that thinks that if the economy in china were to fail the labor disputes will escalate into a revolutionary situation and the government will fall. Civil war I will retract, I can't say that china will have a full on civil war proper.

The general unrest in the country has grown more pronounced and most of the legitimacy of the chinese state hinges on growth. Most of that growth is being made on a very angry emiserated underclass of migrants, and they nearly 100 million in number.

>>4810681
>we have a social democracy

Mother fucker this isn't Sweden. Look at it. We don't have health care, or the health care we do have is a fucking extractive tax to fuel private health care. You really want to call this a social democracy?

We're with fucking myanmar with maternity leave. Don't give me shit about social democracy.

>And when applied to the military it resulted in the greatest military the world has ever seen.

Which is now being shattered in multiple conflicts across the globe, try again. Or, better yet, get a job at Raytheon because that's the only fucking job left. Everything else gets cut, the schools get fucking raped, and only the military gets access to the public funding fire hose.

Except of course our corporate subsidies, like the agriculture industry, the technology sector.

>>4810686
to me that seems to be wishful thinking. there's unrest and a want for change, certainly. it's a 1980s soviet union scenario more than a 1910s imperial russia, except here the leadership has studied gorbachev and the like in immense depth to learn from his mistakes. they're crafty bastards, the CPC. r

I'm just too self absorbed to care.

>>4810662
>civil war
>China

Wait, what?

>>4810696
>Mother fucker this isn't Sweden. Look at it. We don't have health care,
we do have healthcare, its just not nationalized
however we do have medicare and medicaid/welfare healthcare
so yes it is a social democracy, just not as extreme as Sweden.

>We're with fucking myanmar with maternity leave. Don't give me shit about social democracy.

I think you mean Burma sir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma

So are you telling me maternity leave is the corner stone of social democracy?

>Which is now being shattered in multiple conflicts across the globe, try again. Or, better yet, get a job at Raytheon because that's the only fucking job left. Everything else gets cut, the schools get fucking raped, and only the military gets access to the public funding fire hose.

Its hardly being shattered, and there are plenty of places that are hiring that aren't Raytheon.
And yes schools get cut so what? the best school are private anyways

>>4810696
>Mother fucker this isn't Sweden.

With the current rate of cultural enrichment we will be there soon.

>>4810721
>so yes it is a social democracy, just not as extreme as Sweden.

Look at where the funding goes. It's literally an oligarchy. The funding mostly goes to the military and subsidies, which do not benefit the public. Do you think that Sweden pays this much money for a bloated military budget and moron adventures around the glove in pursuit of adventure and corporate profit?

>So are you telling me maternity leave is the corner stone of social democracy?

It's an indicator of where the country is at. I could go on about the starvation in the streets or the fact that the homeless die in good quantity, or the massive wealth inequity, but those things don't concern you since you're one of those romantic authoritarians who is completely detached for the world.

Americans worker longer hours, for less, with less benefits, and they're emiserated. The reality of this country is disturbing and savage, and the country reflects it.

>And yes schools get cut so what? the best school are private anyways

YOU NEED TO PAY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS YOU FUCKING IDIOT YOU FUCKING IDIOT YEAH GREAT SOCIAL DEMOCRACY YOU GOT THERE YOU FUCKING IDIOT

>>4810721
[x] white
[x] male
[x] in college
[ ] knows shit about the world or anything in it

I have you pegged, sir.

Because I uphold moral standards that I was taught. I expect people to respect those, I DON'T expect them to always do that since the ideeas that I was tought, Christianity, clearly states that man IS sinful, we are not perfect and you're not supposed to consider others perfect, but you're supposed to work towards a goal.

Any other kind of existence is an EXCUSE for hedonism or doing bad things to others

>>4810738
>Christianity, clearly states that
>>>/x/

>>4810735
>>4810731
guys just block him, seriously

>>4810744
ugh, I replied before I noticed the trip. my bad.

because it is beyond manking, nature is what controls man, and nature is neutral, neither bad nor good, neither fair nor unfair

>>4810721
>http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/

>>4810744
do hard drugs, get some edgy tattoos, be promiscuous, get involved in some borderline illegal activites, go to the gym and take some mma classes, shortcut to edginess by taking roids. Then manage to get famous for doing edgy things and cash in for your celebrity status

Do all that ironically and then give some bullshit justification that your life is postmodern art or some shit, then say you become a philosopher like henry rollins

>>4810721
>And yes schools get cut so what? the best school are private anyways

They're the best because their funding isn't cut

>>4810721
>And yes schools get cut so what? the best school are private anyways

lmao

It genuinely feels like after 2-3 posts you forget what point you were trying to make in the beginning

>>4810731
>>4810731
>Look at where the funding goes. It's literally an oligarchy.
"oligarchy" is a form of government like autocracy or democracy, not an ideology

>The funding mostly goes to the military and subsidies, which do not benefit the public

I'd disagree, the military probably benefits the public the most out of all government spending. Subsidies would need to be taken on a case by case basis.

>Do you think that Sweden pays this much money for a bloated military budget and moron adventures around the glove in pursuit of adventure and corporate profit?

No, but military spending and social democracy are not mutually exclusive.

>It's an indicator of where the country is at. I could go on about the starvation in the streets or the fact that the homeless die in good quantity, or the massive wealth inequity

So tell me this, how much homelessness is too much for a country to not be considered a social democracy?
How much inequity is need?

>but those things don't concern

they don't
>you're one of those romantic authoritarians who is completely detached for the world.
Not romantic. pragmatic.
If anything social democracy is the most detached from the world.
I could go on and site welfare statistics etc.

>Americans worker longer hours, for less, with less benefits,
compared to sweden maybe. the pinnacle of social democracy.

>and they're emiserated.
Is this a reference to marx?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immiseration_thesis

>The reality of this country is disturbing and savage, and the country reflects it.
There is nothing wrong with working in the US it isn't disturbing or savage by any means.
Why is it though? Because we don't nearly as much welfare as Sweden?

Why should we give the poor more money?

>>4810762
>lmao
>It genuinely feels like after 2-3 posts you forget what point you were trying to make in the beginning

Yeah state capitalism
not state gibes me dat.

Public schools don't make profits. We need to subsidize private schools

>>4810761
>They're the best because their funding isn't cut
and if they were run for profit we wouldn't have to

>>4810759
>Look at where the funding goes. It's literally an oligarchy.
"oligarchy" is a form of government like autocracy or democracy, not an ideology

>>4810760
The first half of your post is moronic.

1. You don't cycle roids until after you hit your natural peak in weightlifting
2. Criticizing male culture doesn't make you smart or cool, it makes you insecure

>>4810773
>Public schools don't make profits. We need to subsidize private schools

We wat?

They then wouldn't be very private anymore, would they?

>>4810782
>>Public schools don't make profits. We need to subsidize private schools

>We wat?
>They then wouldn't be very private anymore, would they?

Private institutions can take subsidies without being public

>>4810773
Schools don't exist to make a profit.

>>4810759
> I'm sure you've noticed, this notion of America being an oligarchy seems to be a dominant meme in the discussion of our work. It's not a term that we used in the paper. It's just a dramatic sort of overstatement of our findings.

>People mean different things by the term oligarchy. One reason why I shy away from it is it brings to mind this image of a very small number of very wealthy people who are pulling strings behind the scenes to determine what government does. And I think it's more complicated than that. It's not only Sheldon Adelson or the Koch brothers or Bill Gates or George Soros who are shaping government policy-making. So that's my concern with what at least many people would understand oligarchy to mean. What "Economic Elite Domination" and "Biased Pluralism" mean is that rather than average citizens of moderate means having an important role in determining policy, ability to shape outcomes is restricted to people at the top of the income distribution and to organized groups that represent primarily -- although not exclusively -- business.

>>4810786
IN CAPITALISM THEY DO NIGGA

>>4810786
>Schools don't exist to make a profit.

The best ones do

>>4810777
You are literally too stupid to insult

>>4810792
>You are literally too stupid to insult

You are literally too stupid to make a point

>>4810785
And you don't think that would somehow effect the institution? Or that the government, being the subsidizing entity, wouldn't put demands upon the institution?

>>4810791
What makes a school better than another?

>>4810738
>Because I uphold moral standards that I was taught. I expect people to respect those
So you expect people to respect your social conditioning because YOU happened to have been programmed with those values? If your parents/culture trained you that it is morally faux pas to wear clothes indoors, walk in public on two legs, or pluck a chicken while it is dead; you really expect people to respect your right to hop down the street plucking a live bird, before removing your clothes on your friends doorstep? If you are not breaking any laws, people might consider tolerating your behavior, but your a fool if you expect respect; especially when executing your moral standards in a foreign culture.

>>4810794
Oh sure, go study economics before you shitpost

>>4810795

>And you don't think that would somehow effect the institution? Or that the government, being the subsidizing entity, wouldn't put demands upon the institution?

They could.

>>4810796

>What makes a school better than another?

college acceptance rate

>>4810799

>Oh sure, go study economics before you shitpost

>still can't make a post

>>4810799
>Oh sure, go study economics before you shitpost

I MEANT

>still can't make a point

>>4810802
>>And you don't think that would somehow effect the institution? Or that the government, being the subsidizing entity, wouldn't put demands upon the institution?
>They could.

Might this not alter the nature and quality of the institution?

Nothing exists as a vaccum, eliminating public schools and throwing subsidies at private schools would have a profound affect upon those private institutions. Likely they would come to imitate the public schools they have been tasked to replace.

>>4810813
>Might this not alter the nature and quality of the institution?

>Nothing exists as a vaccum, eliminating public schools and throwing subsidies at private schools would have a profound affect upon those private institutions. Likely they would come to imitate the public schools they have been tasked to replace. [Return] [Catalog] [Top]

Not if they're ran for profit

>>4810816
Public schools are ran for profit

>>4810819
>Public schools are ran for profit
no they're not

>>4810816
>Not if they're ran for profit

But their profits will now come from subsidies. Which means appeasing the government who hands out those subsidies will be their top priority, leading to implementing whatever hair-brained ideas the government has about education.

Which is partly why public schools are how they are now.

Of course the government will have to acquire those subsidies somehow from the taxpayers, and then determine some method of redistributing that money to the schools.

This is the other part of why public schools are how they are now.

In this way the private would become the private. Your idea of just eliminating public schooling and replacing it with subsidized private schooling yields the same result.

>>4810797
No, not social conditioning, basic morality

For example I expect you to NOT go kill people for money in the army

sorry if that is in your opinion silly

I don't impose my ideeas on other people in any way, I just mentioned how I feel about things, because I got an education in that sense

god knows what kind of values people that are raised in atheist (read:western anti-christian) households get

probably something to do with putting yourself first before others, always go for your profit, don't lie TOO much, don't do drugs in excess, shit like that

Just look at people here

>>4810741
I'm uneducated so I expect christianity is vague bullshit!

>>4810823
>But their profits will now come from subsidies.
subsidies are not profits, profits come from costumers

>In this way the private would become the private. Your idea of just eliminating public schooling and replacing it with subsidized private schooling yields the same result.
no it does not. public schools now days admit everyone at no tuition

>>4810830
>subsidies are not profits, profits come from costumers
The Government is the customer.

Do you really think money's magically different because we call it by a different name?

>public schools now days admit everyone at no tuition
And what else would these subsidized private schools meant to absorb all the students left behind by the public schools be doing?

I guess they could charge the more well-off students, but the vast majority of their money would be provided from subsidies. Otherwise more people would just pony up for private institutions today.

>>4810850
>The Government is the customer.
>Do you really think money's magically different because we call it by a different name?

So how do you rationalize your special snowflake scenario coming true?

>And what else would these subsidized private schools meant to absorb all the students left behind by the public schools be doing?
>I guess they could charge the more well-off students, but the vast majority of their money would be provided from subsidies. Otherwise more people would just pony up for private institutions today.

why would they absorb people who can't pay tuition?

>>4810863
>So how do you rationalize your special snowflake scenario coming true?

What are you even talking about? You're the one wanting to abolish public schools for 'muh social democracy'.

>why would they absorb people who can't pay tuition?

Then what the fuck are you subsidizing them for?

So you're going to dismantle public schooling and leave the vast majority of the population uneducated. To quote an earlier poster...

>>4810731
>YEAH GREAT SOCIAL DEMOCRACY YOU GOT THERE YOU FUCKING IDIOT

Depends how you define misanthropy. I've always believed that people are evil, persons are not. I've talked one-on-one with murderers and trusted them, but I've feared for my life in an angry crowd.

>>4810827
I'm uneducated, so I'm susceptible to Christianity.

>>4810374
Mankind isn't good or bad by nature. 'Good' and bad' are terms invented by the human race to categorise humans of our race and for that purpose alone it serves. The universe has always been and always will be, indifferent, towards us. Its like asking whether textures are rough or smooth in general; there is no external reference with which to compare. Having said that, we are a more civilised world today than we ever have been (in my opinion) and I believe that, given the chance, we will continue to become a smarter, more developed, more civilised, society

Read Kokoro to get an insight into misanthropy.

>>4810374
By which mneisis is man to compare?

>>4811404
“You seem to be under the impression that there is a special breed of bad humans. There is no such thing as a stereotype bad man in this world. Under normal conditions, everybody is more or less good, or, at least, ordinary. But tempt them, and they may suddenly change. That is what is so frightening about men.”

>>4810374
Just because I think they're cunts doesn't mean I have to hate them for it. It's not like they can help being cunts.

i don't hate wolves for eating prey and i don't hate humans for being harsh and cruel. it's in our nature. it's in my nature. if i'm not being harsh and cruel it's because my role in society is another one, but i have the potential for it all the same