/lit/ - Literature

Go ask tumblr.

That picture is the exact same shade of pink as another forum I used to lurk on.

>>4805754
The Twilight Trilogy and Atlas Shrugged would be a perfect place to start. Don't post again till you've read them all and are ready to seriously discuss the subtext.

Obligatory mention of Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides.

>>4805780
>a book written by a cis-male
no thanks, it would only oppress me.

>>4805756
Wait, seriously? This cached out response gets used on /lit/ as well? I would assume there would be more intelligent people here.

>>4805796
Intelligent people don't read these type of books.

>>4805796
There are, which is why we send you to tumblr.

>>4805801
>>4805804

History will laugh at your narrow mindedness, I guarantee it.

Are you primarily interested in fiction?

>>4805810
Willing to take that risk.

X and Y chromasome

>BUT GENDER AND SEX ARE DIFFERENT LOL

back to your neurotic hugbox, foul witch.

>>4805811
Nope! Non-fiction is fine as well.

>>4805810
Stop trying to normalize your mental illness.

>>4805810
what an odd understanding of history

>>4805815
That gender and sex are different is such an old and established fact by now that I'm not even going to engage in a debate with you.

>>4805822
There is no "normal." I don't think you realize how much the concept of normativity has hindered you.

Good luck, the neckbeards here get so mad about gender that this thread will probably just devolve into their mindless rants.

see >>4805815
and >>4805822

>>4805810


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history

>>4805796
There are /pol/ types all over 4chan. This place used to be less like this a few months back, but bah oh well, happens to every board. Kind of inevitable :/

>>4805810

history will laugh at those who criticize the extension of consumerism into body politics? history will defend people who used their money to make their bodies ideal?

...actually you're probably right haha this world is so fucking crazy i'm glad i only get one life

>>4805841
Yeah, I feel like I might as well just ditch the thread since I've only gotten one actual recommendation followed by a bunch of unwarranted insults.

This is why people need safe spaces.

>>4805840
>thinking there is no such thing as normatively
And you wonder why no one takes you SJW faggots seriously

>>4805845
I'm curious how you think the negation of normativity in gender is an extension of consumerism. Subverting the gender binary does not strictly mean getting surgery.

>>4805846
>This is why people need safe spaces.

muh feelz

Fuck right off.

If gender is performative why do SJWs mock or deride any sort of gender performance style that has been historically determined to be the norm?

If you wanna wear a dress while deadlifting 4pl8 with your gender fluid gf that's cool, but why do tumblr queer "theorists" only find valuation in their own gender performance through a devaluation of the performance of others?

If I want to be "manly" or if a woman wants to be "womanly," why should this performance of gender be attacked?

>>4805845

you don't /need/ an echo chamber but yes it is a common thing for people to desperately want to be isolated from things which don't affirm their previously held beliefs

>>4805848
How could you deny it? This thread is proof enough that there are boundaries of discussion, "norms."

>>4805852
It has less to do with feelings than just getting rid of all of the nuisance and noise.

>>4805846
>This is why people need safe spaces.
>safe places
You are such a faggot. Jesus, I hate how faggots like you are associated with the Left. Take your divisive bourgeois ideology -- masquerading as radicalism -- somewhere else. No one gives a shit about your oppression olympics besides your fellow friends at the mental asylum/

Maybe Orlando by V Wolff???

Please stop making serious posts about tumblr you guys

>>4805857
>associates basic genderqueer theory with insanity

i'm sure you're so radical

>inb4 muh bourgeois

>>4805857
>faggot faggot faggot

really makes your argument that much more solid, m8

>>4805853

are you suggesting that hormone treatment/surgery aren't fundamental aspects here? are you saying that it's not true that for most trans people the end goal is attaining the body they want?

>>4805840
>That gender and sex are different is such an old and established fact by now that I'm not even going to engage in a debate with you.
>I've been misusing this word for years, why do shitlords keep insisting on showing me the dictionary definition?

>>4805854
OP just asked for a book recommendation, not a political debate.

I don't know about books like that but threads on this topic are always going to provoke a radical reaction on a place as politically diverse as 4chan.

>>4805846


yes you do need a safe place, because your flimsy ideological facade justifying your narcissistic desire to avoid any sort of devalidation is otherwise indefensible, and gains popularity solely thanks to the aformentioned utility in ego defense.

>>4805855
Let's say slavery just ended and you're an ex-slave trying to have a discussion about black voting rights. A shit ton of people bombard you with racism and dismissals, would you not move the conversation somewhere else? Would you call that an "echo chamber"?

>>4805881

are you equating the struggle of black people to the struggle of spoiled white shitheads who want to buy their perfect body?

that's not a human solution

>>4805871
>politically diverse

implying there's more than two people in this thread who actually agree with OP and define gender as something separate from sex

>income inequality highest it's been in a century (and in the US, arguably the highest it's ever been)
>no clear direction in terms of job growth and steady economy improvement
>crippling debt is the norm
>the state currently engages in extensive surveillance programs on its citizens
>corporations are commodifying every aspect of our lives and transforming it into monetized data

Why is the left spending it's time trying to make Barbie fatter and putting more homos and women in movies?

>>4805871
Unfortunate but true. I definitely don't share OP's views, but in the very least the kneejerk "criticism" that you get with threads like these are not just unwarranted but a bit stale. It would be great if there was more constructive worthwhile posting instead of MAN I HATE SJWS DON'T YOU?-shitposting. The amount of threads on /lit/ actually worth reading because they're funny or informative or whatever are damn near none.

>>4805871

I'm not sure why people can't keep their politics to themselves in a recommendation thread?

>politically diverse

It seems pretty one-sided.

>>4805883
>all gender struggle is white

pls stop now

>>4805754
Watership Down

>>4805885
Moron.

>>4805896

>not addressing the central issue

keep spending mommy and daddies money to fix all your problems lol itll only work for about 60-100 years tho

>>4805853


a sense of 'normativity' is a necessary and inevitable mode of being for coming to grips with being with imperfect information.

the universe is not a demesne of infinite possibility, ergo, 'normativity' exists by definition.

>>4805846
>This is why people need safe spaces.

There are probably plenty of general ideas surrounding gender on which we would agree, but this sort of nauseating oversensitivity turns me off associating with any of you. I don't understand why a "movement" which is so assertive in debates encourages this type of touchy‐feely self‐pity. Are there any writers on the subject who don't use terms like "safe spaces"?

>>4805896
Here comes the oppression olyimpics: who is more oppressed? a trans-queer-afrofem, or a trans-queer-latina-furry?

>>4805866
Is it better that they waste money on other drugs and other useless coping mechanisms? You aren't treating them as people.

>>4805901
dude what are you even talking about

>>4805903

this guy isn't the guy you were responding to and i feel compelled to point it out because of how much i disagree w/ his post

>>4805883
>>4805883
>>4805883

wraps it up for me

>>4805893
>I'm not sure why people can't keep their politics to themselves in a recommendation thread?
It's just the mentality of "oh man, someone has really different political beliefs than me, better be obnoxious so they go away". They want an echo chamber rather than, you know, actual thoughtful discussion.

>>4805844

>This place used to be less like this a few months back

whatever you say, newfriend. : ^)

>>4805912

mortality

>>4805910

no, i don't think that other useless coping mechanisms are any better. but it appears we agree that the trans "movement" is a useless coping mechanism

>>4805908


im a trans-ethnic african queen, i face opression and triggering every day when people tell me im not entitled to reparations only because my skin is white.

>>4805921
>newfriend
+1 4chan cred, oldfag-kun

>>4805866
>are you saying that it's not true that for most trans people the end goal is attaining the body they want?

Of course I am. First of all, it seems that you're equating gender subversion with sexual reassignment surgery or hormone treatment. That might be classified as "transsexuality", when the genderqueer umbrella covers a much wider spectrum than that.

"The body they want" implies that they're unhappy with their sex, when this is not always true since their gender is the issue at hand.

>>4805923
Those losers need to join a union instead of crying because people laugh at them for wearing a petit dress on their 300 pound body.

ITT ignorant white males pat themselves on the back for maintaining the status quo

I get the nagging feeling that the entire internet phenomenon based around the post-structuralist new left is entirely the construction of young marketing executives trying to bring in massive amounts of hits to products which essentially only subsist off of views and advertisements.

Sort of like how cigarette companies made smoking a "cool, radical" thing for feminists in the 20s.

Would explain why the most trending topics on these corporate forums are basically bougie identity politics that reaffirm the power of the culture industry and seek its reform rather than its destruction.

>>4805930

ITT: one side of an argument presents its case, the other side complains about how unfair things are and (ironically) complains about their being "no discussion"

>>4805930
0/10

Alright moderator, wanna go ahead and do something now that this has devolved into a troll-fest?

>>4805754
All you are going to get here is Joyce fanatics who fantasize actually enjoying Joyce instead of just liking him because it's popular, and trolls who never read Joyce saying he sucks.

Have fun.
Also, if you don't like what someone else likes you are a pleb, no questions asked.

Start with the Greeks even though Aristotle is complete shit.

And...no one here actually likes anything good.

>>4805930
Yyou shouldn't use "male" as a noun because it's sexist (it makes men seem like less than human)

>>4805887
This is similar to the argument in science where people get mad at breakthroughs that don't cure cancer or solve world hunger.

>>4805935
>and (ironically) complains about their being "no discussion"
That was me actually, not that guy, but whatever floats your boat.

i think the left hand of darkness is about that but i havent read it

>mfw women are incapable of emotion, actual intellectually stimulating conversation and the only 'smart' kinds are either cuntist or entirely devoid of personality

>tfw day after day you realize the only thing women are good for is their vaginas

>>4805940
>implying men are even human

>>4805934

this poster put it way better than i did

From the top of my hat i think of Orlando by Virginia Woolf. Sadly not much else comes to mind. If you also are looking for non-fiction the classic might be Gender Trouble by Judith Butler.

>>4805930
The only transgender person I've ever met was probably the least interesting one I've met too. Like, the only thing unique about them was their haircut. Not even like in a boring person kind of way, like in a "being a huge tool of corporations" way. Like in the "thinking they're rebellious for liking Miley Cyrus" kind of way.

>>4805930


please, the 'status-quo' is already defined by revolutionary memes, and is not nearly radical enough.

>>4805904
>oversensitivity

Don't get me wrong. I'm on 4chan, so it's not like this is new. It's just that certain politically charged topics probably legitimately benefit from privacy.

>>4805810
>history will care about gender issues
>gender issues are important
toplel

>>4805754
the what? what is this bullshit?

>>4805934
What brand is benefiting from genderqueer theory? Why do all of you seem to associate it with consumerism? Like I stated earlier ITT, genderqueer != sexual reassignment surgery.

>>4805968
So it's just a bunch of bourgeois trust fund babies who want to be quirky and identity as a female but still continue dating females using their penis during coitus? Yeah, fuck that.

>>4805948
They're something even better.

>>4805975
>>>/lgbt/

you literally type like an insane person

>>4805975
I'm not sure where you pulled "bourgeois trust fund babies" from but it is interesting how you have all kinds of assumptions to pull out of your ass in lieu of realizing you might not know what you're talking about.

>>4805935
There aren't any arguments in this thread to discuss. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to respond to a bunch of spam about how broken a bunch of people are.

>>4805968

>What brand is benefitting from genderqueer theory?
>genderqueer != sexual reassignment surgery

this discussion is over lmfao

>>4805754
I would hope both the SJWS and the /Pol/tards would both go away.

>>4805992

i guess by making 200 posts in the thread crying ass tears about it

at least that's the route most of the posters in this thread have elected to take