/lit/ - Literature

He's style is completely different from that of Tolkien's. Stop it.

Ah yes, the refrain of people who know no fantasy writers other than Gurm and Tolkien

>>4800960
>dragons and swords everywhere
>"BAWW TOTES NUFFIN LIEK TOLKEIN!!
Please.

>>4800964
Hey! Has it ever occured to you that the reason SO MANY PEOPLE make the same connection is the unavoidable fact that it's absolutely, utterly, obvious and true?

The real question is: Why are you so upset about it?

bait

>>4800980
>discussing pop modern fantasy lit contrasted with classic fantasy lit
>thinks its bait

Filtered and nothing of value was lost

G8 b8 m8

He calls himself a feminist so Tolkien wins

>>4800958
Totally agree. Martin even puts his characters in the same universe as Tolkien.

>>4800997
tips*

>>4800997
>implying Tolkein wasn't a feminist
You know, you don't have to crow about your qualities to possess them.

>>4801001
Not exactly. He does make it different enough that there's no copyright infringement.

>>4800958
inb4 i only watched the movies/shows.

>>4801020
inb4 i sperged out and read every book, article and memoir of both authors 10 times making me ultimate internet expert

>>4800958
both are fags when you compare him to greatness.

pic related.

>>4801006
>implying Tolkein wasn't a feminist

A man born in 1892, was certianly not a feminist.
Not suprised its a tripfag making this cancerously shitty thread.

>>4800969
>He thinks the word "style" has anything to do with trope.

Are you fucking new here? Compared to Tolkien, GURRRRRM writes like an obese pimpled middle schooler. Get fucked, faggot.

>>4801032

Seriously. What the fuck is the tryhard tipfaggot trying to do here?

inb4 dies before finishing series.

>>4801032
Feminism started WAY before 1892. You know nothing.

>>4801033
>MUH TOLKEIN
If he's so great, why is the GoT franchise so much more profitable than the LotR franchise?

inb4 "baww imma special snowflake what i like is moar better because me!"

>>4801067

>Feminism started WAY before 1892.

So? A man born in 1892 was not a feminist.

>You know nothing.

Impressive argument. I like your style of debate.


tl;dr: back to reddit tripfaggot

>>4801087

Is this the point in the thread where you get so butthurt because everyone thinks you're retarded, that you're going to pretend to be trolling?

>>4800958
why would we ever need to talk about this?

>he is a better writer that another fairly mediocre writer
it's not even true. tolkein is much better. but who really cares which mediocre writer is better?

>>4800958
Why do people think it is acceptable to compare two different authors that both went for completely different styles? Just because they are "fantasy" writers?

>>4801087

What the fuck? Why do you respond like a fucking retard? Oh, wait.

Look here, peasant, since you obviously DO NOT understand what has been said to you, let met get this straight into your non existent brain: STYLE =/= TROPE. Style is the prosaic (google it because you're obviously below 15 years old) skill and design of the fucking author and not the "MUH ORCS", "MUH DRAGONS" that you only respond to. Well, I can't blame, you, being 13 must be a really confusing time.

>If he's so great, why is the GoT franchise so much more profitable than the LotR franchise?
Because trash begets trash. And plebe works begets the plebes and peasants like you. Also, lol, check your facts checked because the LoTR is the biggest earning franchise, bitch, not that that's any indicator since the films are trash and Hackson is a fucking bastard that needs to suck a dick for a living.

>>4801087
Twilight has made more money than any of your favorite books or shows.

I guess Twilight is better.

>>4801105
Jesus Christ stop sperging out I KNOW they have different writing styles-- everyone knows that you dumbass-- but they both do pretty much the same thing. Martin just does it better, that's all.

>>4801089
You just don't know what you're talking about. Please stop posting about feminism in a book thread.

postan in a zed thred

>>4801119
>Martin just does it better, that's all.

On what basis? What exactly do they do the same?

>>4801119

>You just don't know what you're talking about

Your arguments keep getting better and better.
Here is my rebuttal, of the same level of quality:

UMAD FAGGOT?

>>4801126
Write fantasy books set in medieval-esque universes full of dragons and swords and wizards and kings and stuff.

>>4801141
how simplistic

filter'd

>>4801139
Why do you think I want to argue about feminism in a book thread? With you? PROTIP: I don't. Please go away with your shitposting, the adults are trying to talk about literature.

>>4801141
And on what basis would you say that Martin "does it better"?

>>4801148
>"OH SHIT I HAVE NO VALID REBUTTAL BETTER HIDE"
And nothing of value to the thread was lost.

>>4801149
>the adults are trying to talk about literature
>adults
>literature
>gurrrrrrm
>shit genre-fiction
>literature

Oh wow. Wow.

>>4801150
His characters are more complex and engaging, his plot arcs are more intricate and interesting, and his writing style is far less monotonous than Tolkein.

All in all, it's as if Tolkein had been reborn as an actually GOOD writer.

what does it say that the TV show based on his books is way better than his books

>>4801164
If you have nothing valid to add, please stop shitposting. No one is impressed with your /b/-level troll attempts.

>>4801105
>check your facts checked because the LoTR is the biggest earning franchise
You are wrong, and I think you're angry that you're wrong. GoT has made more money. And the value of a franchise IS an indicator of it's quality, but so are a lot of other things.

>>4801168
Basing on this reply, I'm going to gauge that you're really inexperienced with literature, when your justification as to why Martin does Tolkien better than Tolkien. Look, no one is going to agree with you here, and that's because the majority of /lit/ is in an agreement that genre-fiction such as low fantasy like Game of Thrones is considered subpar compared to The Lord of the Rings. Reddit might agree with you, and you reasoning is simplistic, verging on very simplistic, even. What's your favorite book? Who's your favorite author?

Martin's prose is clumsy, as if he never bothered editing. Tolkien is a master of language and has invented a whole universe just to fill the role of having his languages used in context, to demonstrate that language is organic and memetic, that it grows through culture. So, surprise, surprise, the foundation of modern fantasy wasn't even intended to be made as a fantasy book in the first place. The technical skill and immense mythos of Tolkien's universe is just far greater than anything Martin can come up with. If you're still doubting this, then try to read The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun, or if you can handle it, The Silmarillion. Oh, you, didn't know Tolkien had other masterpieces? Well, I'll be.

>>4801182
the value of the franchise is not necessarily an indicator of quality. it's an indicator of wide appeal. one of the main reasons is probably because of shock factor tbh, esp in the tv version

All we have here is a lost redditfaggot who accidentally stumbled in here and decided to spout retarded opinions under a fucking tripcode.

I'm not entirely sure yet if he's just trolling or actually this fucking sad. Either way you fit better at Reddit OP, please stay there.

Please post absolutely any passage from GRRM that can compare to this:

>‘Then tell us what you will, and time allows!’ said Gimli. ‘Come, Gandalf, tell us how you fared with the Balrog!’ ‘Name him not!’ said Gandalf, and for a moment it seemed that a cloud of pain passed over his face, and he sat silent, looking old as death. ‘Long time I fell,’ he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with difficulty. ‘Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.’ ‘Deep is the abyss that is spanned by Durin’s Bridge, and none has measured it,’ said Gimli. ‘Yet it has a bottom, beyond light and knowledge,’ said Gandalf. ‘Thither I came at last, to the uttermost foundations of stone. He was with me still. His fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake. ‘We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dûm: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.’

>‘Long has that been lost,’ said Gimli. ‘Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.’ ‘It was made, and it had not been destroyed,’ said Gandalf. ‘From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin’s Tower carved in the living rock of Zirakzigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine. ‘There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. The sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. There was none to see, or perhaps in after ages songs would still be sung of the Battle of the Peak.’ Suddenly Gandalf laughed. ‘But what would they say in song? Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is not that enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin.'

>>4801201
can i get tl;dr version please?

>>4801201

Do you remember that part in LoTR where Frodo saw Aragorn talking to someone from the light? Aragorn was talking flowery digressions and it was dreamy as fuck.

>>4801182
>GoT has made more money.
[citation needed]

>And the value of a franchise IS an indicator of it's quality.
OMG TOTES. TWILIGHT IS THE BEST EVAR.

>>4801192
>wall of text
>"my opinions are best because me, stop disliking what I like I'm so special"
Just go.

You're so asberger's you thought your pediatrician diagnosed you with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.

What would /lit/ recommend for someone whi desires some epic fantasy?

>>4801206
Gandalf fights the Balrog, and even if you have seen the movie, or read the book before, the passage evokes a feeling and a sense of true adventure. GRRM's prose is embarrassing. It's just factual shit that people raise-fed on airport fiction can manage well. I'm not saying his story is bad, it's not, but his prose has nothing. Tolkien is a special kind of writer because every page is filled with purpose and development. GRRM will just keep writing for profit, keep writing for ego, but Tolkien was the type of man who wrote purposefully. He knew what he wanted to put down in his trilogy and the building of his world was deliberate. GRRM has no solid plan and can pull a filler chapter from his ass like it was nothing. Do you think Tolkien even thought about what a filler chapter would look like? Do you think that he was trying to fill space like that? Tolkien is an artist and GRRM might've been one.

>>4801213
>OMG LotR SUCKED
Two can play at that game.
It's just an indicator. It's not the only indicator, (as you so clumsily and angrily tried to "reveal"), and it's not always an accurate indicator.

But guess what? QUALITY is a subjective thing. If you could quantify it obectively, it wouldn't be QUALITY, would it? So you need to look to a number of indicators to "measure" it. You're a dum-dum.

>>4801220
"There and Back Again -- A Dinklage Tale"

>>4801217

This is the reply of GOT fan, and I don't even think you can read. How sad, I was being kind to you in the midst of all these people trying to show how simplistic you are.

>>4801225
>it's only an indicator, i'm not basing my whole argument on it!!!! your analogy can't hurt me
>bases whole argument on it in next sentence

>>4801231
Dude, please post any passage in response to >>4801201

I'm begging you. Please.

>>4801225
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_populum

>>4801225
Quality is not subjective. It's just that definitions must be established before a meaningful argument can be had.

>>4801221
no, i asked for tl;dr.

>>4801231

I've read the Hobbit, LotR and ASoIaF

>>4801239
Again, you're conflating the objective with the subjective.

Stay in school!

>>4801234
>A tripfag is stupid and makes a shit thread.

Why am I not surprised. Let's just go home because we simply can't get through a thick-headed cunt.


>>4801237
Let this thread die in the rut. He will only reply some retarded shit like this >>4801217 if you post serious replies like this >>4801192 and >>4801225 .

>walls of text
And he is posting in a literature board.


The next part would be how he's "just pretending to be retarded" and LOLOLOLOL TROLE.

>>4801237
>pls respond

>>4801247
Nope quality and popularity are not related in any meaningful way. Popularity is objective sure.

>>4801254
And i predicted the future. >>4801252

Let's call it a day, shall we? We can't spend all our days talking to a retarded child.

>>4801252
>doesn't understand economy of words
>doesn't understand that she's on 4chan
>"pleese stop posting in threads i don't liek!"
>"more words = better argument"
Bye.
We don't need or want you here. You just shitpost. Glad you're leaving. Don't post here anymore, thanks.

>>4801270
>she's

AHAHAHAHAH
>im a girl t-tooo

FUCK OFF, CUNT

>>4801262
Wow, you predicted that I would respond to your vapid and empty walls of text with anything other than insult and jibe?

Are you the Akinator?

>>4801270
Please stop, you're fucking embarrassing.

>>4801272
Oh. You're male? Your writing style is very feminine, I just assumed...

>>4801277
Is this supposed to be an insult or do you think being a female is something special or something to be made fun of?

>>4801246
I don't think you got the joke. That's ok though.

>>4801283
Nothing of the kind! Anon's writing style IS very feminine, so I used the pronoun "she" in response.

HES the one who flipped out about it. Not me. Ask him.

Tripfag being a fag, just the usual, move on.

MFW no one in this thread has posted anything of value or interest.
MFW they'll think that Wall-O-Text Anon wasn't vapid and empty and wall-o-text.
MFW Martin stands supreme and uncontested as the ultimate Tolkeinator.

>>4801284

I didn't get it. But, do you have any recommendations as to what one should read after having finished those?

>>4801310
>I didn't get it
Oh, ok. I'll explain:
"There and Back Again: A Hobbit's Tale" was an element from Lord of the Rings, a book written by a Hobbit, which are diminutive fantasy creatures from Tolkein's universe.

Peter Dinklage is an actor who plays Tyrion Lannister, a major character in Game of Thrones. Dinklage was born with achondroplasia, a common cause of dwarfism.

I linked the two in a way meant to comically (if tastelessly) reinforce the theme of this thread: That Martin out-Tolkeins Tolkein.

I am not the only person to have made this comparison, although I had hoped that the way in which I did it was amusing to some.

>>4801303
epik troll

>>4800969
>the reason SO MANY PEOPLE make the same connection
Is because Tolkien is the most famous fantasy writer, and Gurm is the FOTM fantasy writer.
Every time a fantasy writer gets popular, he's compared to Tolkien.
You dumb shit

>>4801335
>thinks Terry Pratchett gets compared to Tolkien
a dumb shit is you.

>>4801327
He was also involved with Liz Lemon, somewhere between those fantasy worlds when he had a day job in NYC.

>Dark Fantasy

>>4801349
I'm sure lots of book review writers who don't really know what PTerry is drawing from have said stupid things like "it's Tolkien turned on its head!" or "it's Lord of the Rings meets Douglas Adams" whatever

>>4801494
I've never read any book reviewer that dumb, ever. Would love to see one if you find it. I don't think you will.

Best dragon queen ever. I was so mad when her parents made her marry that Orc king.

>>4801327
>Tolkein
Please go.

>>4801772
>omg look everyone he put the e before the i but that's the only thing i can find wrong with his frustratingly impenetrable arguments so ill shitpost about it.
/b/ is -------->that way

>>4801921
That you can't even spell his fucking name correctly clearly shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

And how about you go scamping back to /b/. You don't belong here, that's for sure.

>>4800958

Is this a troll thread?

If it is kudos to you dear sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar

>>4801955
>demonstrates that I was correct
>uses the /b/ line... after she sees that I used it.
Are you 14? 15? If you're just young, your posting would be understandable. If you're not 15... you're just a terrible shitposter who should be banished.

>>4801981
Are you sure you're not reflecting?

This seems the right thread to ask:
how do I filter shitstain tripfags? Too lazy to look at the fa

>>4802003
Considering that I'm the only person in this thread that has delivered any content, I can say with great confidence that I am not reflecting.

I'm actually a little astonished at how low the level of dialogue /lit/ is capable of. I get more intelligent discussion in /k/, and frequently.

>>4802071
That might be because the content you have delivered is shit and hardly inspires any serious discussion.

I hope you'll now take your own advice and stop posting.

>>4801243
GRRM is faggot, Tolkien is gangsta, and so is Gandalf.

>>4802098
>"I shitpost because I have nothing valid to say."

>>4802100
Martin is just wildly better than Tolkien.

Hi zed!
I thought you were deceased

>tfw i returned my game of throne series because fags ruined it for me.

im sad though because i like were the story was going. anybody know good fantasy books that aren't tolkien

>>4802214
fuck off

>>4802214
hey rang!
Naah, just otherwise disposed. How's things? BB still around?

>>4802206
Why is that pathetic manchild still posting here?
You should go to anti-intellectual boards that were designed for people like you, like /tv/ or /v/.

>>4800958


zed go back to /k/

actually no, dont go to /k/ either.

>>4802239
Unfortunately not, I believed he moved on/up in life. I miss his prettier but less slutty threads ;_;

>>4802325
BWAHA! Those were great. He had a knack, you know?
How about the rest of the gang? I kind of dropped off the face of the planet.

>>4802391
Most of them did the same as you, but I believe Caracalla and Hakas still post on occasion. I know hakas is on goodreads still, you can probably find him on there

Tolkien's better; no doubt.

>>4802425
The man knew how to develop some goddamn backstory and convey a shitton of world building no doubt.

I always love to point to the Fall of Gil-Galad as a perfect way to go about it. With Aragorn secretley in tow, the Hobbits start talking about Elven Kings. Seemingly non sequitur but it gives some huge details that raise tons of questions.

How Gil-Galad is the last elven king of the Noldor. Yet Elrond is there, and pretty clearly acts like a King. It gives a sense, in just a few lines of poetry and discussion, how far and weak the Elves must have fallen since. Gondor might not have a king at the moment, but the Elves will never have another King again.

>>4802438
True.

>>4802450
I'm trying to just rant about all the little nuances but I have another one.

Tolkien manages to display the premise of the whole story in Fellowship in a insanely fucking creative way. He reworked the little nursery rhyme 'hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle' into an original poem by Bilbo. Since Middle-earth is a bygone age of Earth, Tolkien premises that a lot of our own cultural artifacts originate from Hobbits and what not.

The 'original' is pretty fucking catchy too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Ewyp0Z3PU

>>4802464
I've memorized the fucking song.

>>4802493
At least it's in English. I can somehow recite Elendil's Oath from memory.

But I guess that isn't as bad as actually knowing how to speak Elvish.

I love that this turned into a Tolkien thread.
BWAHA, perfect!

>>4802663
tripcancer like you are the reason why /lit/ is shit.

>>4801141
I have never actually filtered anyone before, because most stupid people are often occasionally funny, but you... I have never seen anything as bad as your posts before. Not even on /b/.

>>4802325
>>4802391
>>4802405
>>4802239
pls don't jack each other off on /lit/, it's not the place for tripfags to jack each other off. just email each other.

>>4802232
Let me get this straight.

You returned a series on the basis that people you don't like, also liked it?

>>4801087
Cause profit merits credibility

"And yeah your record went platinum but it's got nothing to do with luck you just proved a million people are stupid as fuck"-immortal technique

>>4802840
>my tiny clique of artfaggots is more objectively correct because reasons
^ this is you.

Given how LOTR and ASOIAF are pretty much the same genre with same target group, the "but Twilight sold more" doesn't work to discredit the success either way. The funny thing is that Martin gets all the shitposters worked up because of the success, even though the it's probably the same faggots that are mad that people read less this days.

As for the obligatory Tolkien comparison, nostalgia is going strong for him. Sure, he can create a world and is general a decent writer but the black and white bullshit? The two-dimensional characters? Predictable plot? Come on, the entertainment value isn't even close to Martin.

>>4803482

If you think Tolkien was a genre writer you are in error, just like all the fantasy authors who attempted to ride his coattails to fame and fortune.

Fuck off zed you're shit on /k/ and you're still shit here leave at least one board I like alone

>>4803486
He didn't say Tolkien was a genre writer. Learn to read and understand words and you will shitpost less.

>>4801141
Lord of the Rings didn't have a single dragon in it.

There are like two dragons of any importance (Ancalagon isn't important) in all of Tolkien's work in the setting, and neither are nearly as relevant to the setting or plot as the ones in ASOIAF.

Stop this.

>>4801192
> You're wrong because you're wrong.
> Argumentum ad populum everywhere.

If you're going to respond to a troll, at least do so intelligently.

>>4804629
Both are still full of generic elements. A dragon less or more doesn't change it.

>>4804629
>ITS TECHNICALLY NOT A DRAGON GUIS

You missed your saving throw, nerd.

>>4804630
I already told him that Anon, but he wasn't capable of understanding. I think he actually believes hes right, because he typed the most words. Argumentum ad wall-o-textum.